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## Solid States Devices => Tesla Technologgy => Topic started by: hartiberlin on December 30, 2012, 02:16:11 AM

Title: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on December 30, 2012, 02:16:11 AM
Hi All
Jean Louis Naudin is back with a replication of some russian induction heater cookplate
Tesla spiral bifilar coil transformer experiments
where it seems the output power is muchh bigger than the input power.

Here is his website about it:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/indexen.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/indexen.htm)

Here are the 2 referenced videos by the Russian experimentors:

http://youtu.be/6rzUnQ4v9z8 (http://youtu.be/6rzUnQ4v9z8)

http://youtu.be/yT16-togIhw (http://youtu.be/yT16-togIhw)

Now the question is what kind of waveform does one get at the output of such
a flat Tesla spiral coil ?

Especially when the primary input coil in the heater unit is pulsed at high frequency
and the coil that Naudin has built is put into resonance ?

Are the eddy currents going into resonance and extract any heat energy from the environment
with it and convert it to electrical energy so the electrical output energy is higher than the input energy into the cooking plate coil ?

Hopefullythis will not just be any measurement errors again...
But both power meters show 1000 Watts input the one inside the cooker and
the other on the grid line...
Hmm...

Is it really so easy to get 1850 Watts of free electrical power this way ???

What do you think ?

Many thanks.

Regards. Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on December 30, 2012, 02:20:02 AM
Here is a replication from woopyjump ( Laurent) on Youtube:

He seems to get the same effects like Naudin.

He only needs 500 Watts and lights up the total 2000 Watts bulbs..

Too bad he did not show any scope shots yet.

Regards Stefan.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on December 30, 2012, 04:14:15 AM
Hmm. Well here is a vid by Tinselkoala some time back.

In JLN's vid and Woopies vid, it seems the transmitting coils are standard pancake and the receiver coil is bifi.

TK shows that the bifi is a better transmitter than a receiver.

Other differences are that TK's spacing between coils seems larger.

Anyways, I think it fits here.  ;)

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Eighthman on December 30, 2012, 04:21:25 AM
I really, really hope people will STOP trying to measure output using lightbulbs.  Get some diodes, build a good filter and connect it into a simple resistive load, with meters.  Not hard to build, not expensive.

Making lightbulbs glow and then claiming output - even if you measure the lumens/candlepower/whatever - isn't good because high frequencies can create nice glowing plasma ( as Tesla discovered long ago) apart from a hot filament.

Still hopeful,

Eighthman
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Eighthman on December 30, 2012, 04:29:39 AM
OK, Naudin does connect a wattmeter that shows power factor - and that's nice but there could still be problems with frequency and spikes. DC is much better.

Still, it's interesting stuff and you gotta give Naudin credit for trying.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on December 30, 2012, 05:22:03 PM
Why they are not using that !?

http://www.clarke-hess.com/2330.html

Nothing beat mathematical integration to have high precision measurement...
Scope are great too if they are equipped with math integration function.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on December 30, 2012, 07:05:12 PM
Hmm,
Naudin just posted an update:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene05en.htm

and

Seems he only gets now 91.4 % efficiency
when measuring the light intensity...

He says that he wants to do more tests.

I really would lke to see some scope shots of the involved waveforms from this.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: e2matrix on December 30, 2012, 07:06:50 PM
I really, really hope people will STOP trying to measure output using lightbulbs.  Get some diodes, build a good filter and connect it into a simple resistive load, with meters.  Not hard to build, not expensive.

Making lightbulbs glow and then claiming output - even if you measure the lumens/candlepower/whatever - isn't good because high frequencies can create nice glowing plasma ( as Tesla discovered long ago) apart from a hot filament.

Still hopeful,

Eighthman

Did you see he also showed AC voltage and current output?  I know that may not be the most accurate way but could it be that far off?   Isn't the induction heater a resistive load?   If so would it be possible to loop this?   The electronics in the induction heater might not like it but you could probably bypass them and just hook straight to the induction coil.  Or make your own.   Give it a jump start from the grid and have a relay flip it over to loop it?   Sounds easy enough to try.   Wouldn't that be a hoot if that's all it took....
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: e2matrix on December 30, 2012, 07:56:24 PM
Hmm,
Naudin just posted an update:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene05en.htm

and

Seems he only gets now 91.4 % efficiency
when measuring the light intensity...

He says that he wants to do more tests.

I really would lke to see some scope shots of the involved waveforms from this.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

I know the induction heaters use a board full of electronics.  I wonder how much efficiency is lost there?   It seems it might be better to wind your own induction coil BIFILAR and skip the electronics and just use the Variac.  Measure output from the Variac to the input of the bifilar induction coil and I'll bet it gets much higher efficiency.   Since I've got a big Variac I may give this a try soon.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on December 30, 2012, 08:17:00 PM
A simple power In vs power Out with true RMS wattmeter or scope with math integration will do the job no matter current/voltage waveform...
Second: how on earth a loosely coupled air core transformer will get Cop > 1 ? Until it come to play resonance/quarter wave effect or some weird effect.
91 % efficiency is pretty good for an air core trafo !

Title: 80 to 90 % efficiency
Post by: scianto on December 30, 2012, 08:30:03 PM
I can confirm that this kind of an air transformer (which it is in its essence) is 80 to 90 % efficient.
I did some rough tests today, here is one of them:
having some lab experience with frequencies and waves like these one I am pretty sure that this setup is less then 100% efficient.
The efficiency can be higher when the output circuit is put in RLC resonance, but I don't think it will be higher than 1.
(I am talking in Polish -- no time to translate yet, but I plan to.)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on December 30, 2012, 08:48:51 PM

In JLN's vid and Woopies vid, it seems the transmitting coils are standard pancake and the receiver coil is bifi.

TK shows that the bifi is a better transmitter than a receiver.

Mags

So, I wonder if the coils can be exchanged? Put the bifi in the heater unit and the regular pancake on top as the receiver? ;)

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on December 30, 2012, 08:54:27 PM
In the heater that Naudin opened to show, it appears that the large heat sink on the circuit board is right under the induction coil. Why does that sink not heat up from induction? It looks like it is right under. ???

Strange.

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: crazycut06 on December 30, 2012, 11:56:12 PM
In the heater that Naudin opened to show, it appears that the large heat sink on the circuit board is right under the induction coil. Why does that sink not heat up from induction? It looks like it is right under. ???

Strange.

Mags

Hi Mags,
I think only metals can be detected by the induction cooker, i had an ordinary metal pan and it activates the cooker and heats up, while the alum based pan doesn't.
I smell somethin's cooki'n! Lol... ;D
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: crazycut06 on December 31, 2012, 12:17:17 AM
Did you see he also showed AC voltage and current output?  I know that may not be the most accurate way but could it be that far off?   Isn't the induction heater a resistive load?   If so would it be possible to loop this?   The electronics in the induction heater might not like it but you could probably bypass them and just hook straight to the induction coil.  Or make your own.   Give it a jump start from the grid and have a relay flip it over to loop it?   Sounds easy enough to try.   Wouldn't that be a hoot if that's all it took....
Hi e2matrix,
Is an induction cooker a pulsed dc system? If it its maybe the output will not be pure sine, but pulsed dc?

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: wings on December 31, 2012, 12:32:58 AM
High Frequency Domestic  Induction Cooker - circuit

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: picowatt on December 31, 2012, 01:06:24 AM
His new numbers, attained via confirmation of lamp output with a light meter, are a more reasonable 92% efficiency or so, which is still pretty good, but not OU.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on December 31, 2012, 09:03:29 AM

I really would lke to see some scope shots of the involved waveforms from this.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1031&st=0&#entry26210 (http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1031&st=0&#entry26210)

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on December 31, 2012, 09:22:48 AM
High Frequency Domestic  Induction Cooker - circuit

Good paper, thanks for finding it. The envelope-modulated sinusoidal waveforms shown in the paper are similar to those shown by Tagor above. From the paper, I think I am understanding that the envelope modulation controls the depth of penetration of the heating effect into the pan, while the basic, higher frequency oscillation is what is transferring the power.

Here are some variants on a simple Zero-Voltage Switching self-resonating oscillator which can be used as a wireless power transmitter, a flyback driver, or an induction heater, depending on the frequency and the geometry of the output coil, and the power supply.
I use variants of this basic circuit for my wireless power systems and my flyback Jacob's Ladder.
By lowering the frequency by making the output coil bigger, say 30+30 turns, Litz wire, flat, and using a power supply and mosfets that will deliver more power to the coil, you can have your basic induction frying pan heater.
Lower the frequency with big capacitors and you can have the classic induction furnace, with a few loops of copper tubing for the output which wraps around your metal object to be heated. Again, mosfets and power supplies must be up to the task. Generally the mosfets stay pretty cool if the circuit is working properly.

It's the same basic circuit, though, in each case.

In the versions below, the cross-over diodes can be any robust, fast diode; the zeners can be 12 or even 15 v; the 1000uHy choke value can be varied quite a bit; the mosfets I use for ~800 kHz wireless power (single turn air-core output loop) are IRFZ44n and for lower-frequency flyback driver (5+5 primary on ferrite yoke)  IRFP260; for induction heating (larger spiral coil) IRFP460 on good heatsinks. The capacitors must be poly film type and over-rated for voltage; use high quality caps. Do not attempt to operate without the load, you will blow mosfets instantly.

With tight coupling, bifilar coils of Litz wire, and IGBTs or very low Rdss mosfets in the commercial induction heater circuit I would expect the power transfer efficiency to be quite good (but not greater than unity).

These circuits do not produce the envelope modulation of the commercial cookers, though.

A neat thing for Jean-Louis to try would be to put a second load coil and light bank on top of the first receiver coil.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on January 01, 2013, 12:56:10 AM
Why not add another Bifilar Coil on top, so there are TWO of them.

It seems logical that some of the radiation is sneaking past the coil
in the picture, so why not capture it with a SECOND Coil?

Even if the second coil only got another 20%, it's better than nothing.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on January 01, 2013, 01:31:39 AM
Why not add another Bifilar Coil on top, so there are TWO of them.

It seems logical that some of the radiation is sneaking past the coil
in the picture, so why not capture it with a SECOND Coil?

Even if the second coil only got another 20%, it's better than nothing.

Or, maybe 1 receiver coil on both sides of the transmitter coil?  I dont know if one will take away from the other.

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 01, 2013, 11:43:01 AM
So Naudin did some measurements with a DSO and I must say at first sight things certainly do seem interesting. The scope reveals, as questioned by some, a non sinusoidal waveform meaning a scope/DSO is an unmissable asset if you want to argue about power output. Since he didn't share the test data and I wanted to know if the average power output he found of 1812W was indeed calculated correctly, I went and did a simple visual integral/mean calculation myself on the shown image he posted.
Basically I calculate the area under the power output graph in pixels and divided it by the length also in pixels, then this value is normalized using the height of the original graph. The mean value I obtained after this process was 1835W, this is very near to his value so we can safely assume he calculated it correctly.

Edit: I just noticed he indeed DID share the data. :D

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene06en.htm
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Vito PL on January 01, 2013, 12:02:22 PM
@ all
I looked it up much earlier: D
it works
but we do not use the full potential of this design.
Displacement curent is wasted.
The new year will be exciting.
Vito
Title: updated video
Post by: scianto on January 01, 2013, 12:18:12 PM
I updated the video test mentioned earlier:
with English subtitles (you may need to switch them on).
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 01, 2013, 01:44:44 PM
That video is quite interesting and perhaps even very important. It shows that the measured voltage has also a 50Hz component, due to the mains, when you "zoom out". If this is also present in Naudin's setup then it changes the data entirely and thus also the calculations.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on January 01, 2013, 02:22:27 PM
@ Broli

Super nice job calculating that waveform area.  Thanks.

.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 01, 2013, 03:23:29 PM
If someone came to you and said, "Look, I have a power supply that makes 1800 Watts ("RMS!")  at 24kHz, with a nearly sinusoidal output waveforms. Can you help me to convert this output to 50-60 Hz so I can use it to power my 1kW induction cooker?" How would you approach the problem? Could you do the conversion at better than 60 percent efficiency?

How about using the coil's output to feed a full-wave bridge of fast diodes, using the DC output of the bridge to charge up a big reservoir capacitor to the peak output voltage, then using an externally-clocked H-bridge of very low Rdss mosfets to make the 60 Hz AC output? Can you get better than sixty percent efficiency from an arrangement like this?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 01, 2013, 03:28:35 PM
If someone came to you and said, "Look, I have a power supply that makes 1800 Watts ("RMS!")  at 24kHz, with a nearly sinusoidal output waveforms. Can you help me to convert this output to 50-60 Hz so I can use it to power my 1kW induction cooker?" How would you approach the problem? Could you do the conversion at better than 60 percent efficiency?

I would tell him to rectify and filter that signal first before we can talk about that ;).
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 01, 2013, 03:31:40 PM
Oh, you are fast.

I said,
How about using the coil's output to feed a full-wave bridge of fast diodes, using the DC output of the bridge to charge up a big reservoir capacitor to the peak output voltage, then using an externally-clocked H-bridge of very low Rdss mosfets to make the 60 Hz AC output? Can you get better than sixty percent efficiency from an arrangement like this?

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: wings on January 01, 2013, 04:48:45 PM
Why not add another Bifilar Coil on top, so there are TWO of them.

It seems logical that some of the radiation is sneaking past the coil
in the picture, so why not capture it with a SECOND Coil?

Even if the second coil only got another 20%, it's better than nothing.

Stacking pancakes

http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/ConicalCoil.htm
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: picowatt on January 01, 2013, 05:25:06 PM
I may be incorrect, but it appears from the various scope shots and photos that he is not measuring directly across the CSR (I cannot see a scope gnd lead attached to the CSR), but is instead measuring voltage at two points, with one point including the CSR Vdrop.  It appears that he then calculates the difference between the two waveforms to arrive at what he believes is the voltage across the CSR.

At the 33Kc or so frequency of the positive going voltage peak (calculated from time interval at FWHM), around 500nHy of inductance in the current sense loop would produce a 100% error in the current measurement (i.e., it would add add .1 ohms in series with the .1 ohm CSR), despite the CSR being non-inductive.  500nHy is equal to about 15 inches of straight wire.

If I am in error regarding my assumptions related to his use of the CSR and how he measured the voltage across the CSR, please feel free to enlighten me.  Possibly someone can take a closer look at his photo and see if he does indeed have his probe and probe ground directly across the CSR.  From what I can see zoomed in, it does not appear so.

It remains likely that his previous test using the light meter that indicated a 92% efficiency was closer to reality.

PW

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 01, 2013, 08:09:44 PM
I have just read Naudin´s new update at:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene06en.htm

Well I guess the high efficiency comes from triggering wrongly the waveforms on te scope.

If he  also has such a waveform:

http://www.overunity.com/13228/1850-watts-free-energy-power-new-gegene-circuit-by-jl-naudin-shows-cop-2-8/dlattach/attach/119141/

and is only triggering on the maximum amplitude waveform, then it is not the average power output,
but just a maximum temporarely power output, that is only there for a few microseconds...

So the best way would really be to rectify and integrate the power output into a charging cap
and then just use DC measurements to see how big the average output power really is.

As the light output measurement have already shown, the average output power is only
at around 92 %, otherwise the lights would have been much brighter...!

And the light output test is already pretty accurate.

So unfortunately I guess the new Test2 was just a measurement error.

P.S: Yes would be interesting to see how a second output Tesla Bifilar coil acts below the transmitter coil.
Will every output coil then only have half the power output ?

Many thanks  and BTW , happy new year to all  !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 02, 2013, 01:11:05 AM
I may be incorrect, but it appears from the various scope shots and photos that he is not measuring directly across the CSR (I cannot see a scope gnd lead attached to the CSR), but is instead measuring voltage at two points, with one point including the CSR Vdrop.  It appears that he then calculates the difference between the two waveforms to arrive at what he believes is the voltage across the CSR.

At the 33Kc or so frequency of the positive going voltage peak (calculated from time interval at FWHM), around 500nHy of inductance in the current sense loop would produce a 100% error in the current measurement (i.e., it would add add .1 ohms in series with the .1 ohm CSR), despite the CSR being non-inductive.  500nHy is equal to about 15 inches of straight wire.

If I am in error regarding my assumptions related to his use of the CSR and how he measured the voltage across the CSR, please feel free to enlighten me.  Possibly someone can take a closer look at his photo and see if he does indeed have his probe and probe ground directly across the CSR.  From what I can see zoomed in, it does not appear so.

It remains likely that his previous test using the light meter that indicated a 92% efficiency was closer to reality.

PW
I think I see both scope references attached to the coil end of the CVR.

However.... I am not convinced that the coil is hooked up as a Tesla bifilar ! It's not clear to me just how the coil is hooked to the lead-out wires. But I'll take his word for it for now.

Stefan's objection--- that the readings are taken at the peak of the outer envelope--- seems very damning. These cookers use the envelope modulation to control depth of penetration into the cooking pan (see the pdf). It's pretty clear from looking at the envelope-modulated waveform Stefan linked and those in the pdf file that the true overall average output power is going to be about half of that measured at the very peak of the envelope.

I'd like to see simultaneous waveforms from both the transmitting coil in the cooker, and the receiving coil. I will guess that the _transmitting_ coil in the cooker will show the same high "efficiency" when measured by the same method used for the receiving coil.

ETA: Yep, it's perfectly clear from the video that the envelope modulation is happening, and that Jean-Louis has computed his power output from the peak oscillations.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: picowatt on January 02, 2013, 01:43:54 AM
I think I see both scope references attached to the coil end of the CVR.

However.... I am not convinced that the coil is hooked up as a Tesla bifilar ! It's not clear to me just how the coil is hooked to the lead-out wires. But I'll take his word for it for now.

Stefan's objection--- that the readings are taken at the peak of the outer envelope--- seems very damning. These cookers use the envelope modulation to control depth of penetration into the cooking pan (see the pdf). It's pretty clear from looking at the envelope-modulated waveform Stefan linked and those in the pdf file that the true overall average output power is going to be about half of that measured at the very peak of the envelope.

I'd like to see simultaneous waveforms from both the transmitting coil in the cooker, and the receiving coil. I will guess that the _transmitting_ coil in the cooker will show the same high "efficiency" when measured by the same method used for the receiving coil.

ETA: Yep, it's perfectly clear from the video that the envelope modulation is happening, and that Jean-Louis has computed his power output from the peak oscillations.

Happy New Year TK (and all...),

I was looking at a photo that did not show that CSR board, it was hidden behind the unit.  I see in the video (not sure it was there yet when I originally looked) and in the capture you posted, that he does indeed appear to be directly across the CSR, so pretty much everything I said in my previous post is moot!  Assuming the bi-fi and lamp loads are floating "ground wise", all looks proper.

It probably would be a good idea for him to increase the distance between the induction coil and the CSR/probes/ground clip leads.  Possibly some degree of induction is happening there and this could be easily tested by moving/re-orienting the CSR board during a measurement to see if scope display changes.

It is strange that the DSO measurement method yields almost exactly double the power out that the light meter method demonstrated.

PW

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 02, 2013, 01:44:17 AM
I added my own 50Hz 100% modulation to Naudin's data and the average power dropped to around 895Watt.

It was fun while it lasted on to other projects  :D .
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 02, 2013, 04:32:56 PM
Yes, I rewatched Naudins last video again and the waveform was not steady on his scope
but jumped up and down...

So there was a modulation of thie waveform,
otherwise the scope would have triggered perfectly and it would have shown a steady state
waveform...

So the power output is probably much lower and otherwise the lamp brightness test would
have already shown the ou factor...

I still wonder, why his analog meters have shown so mamny wrong values,
but probably they are only calibrated for 50  Hz AC usage and not for
Khz usage with modulation on it...

Rergards, Stefan.

P.S: Would be interesting to see a circuit diagram from such an induction  cooking plate.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 02, 2013, 04:57:55 PM

P.S: Would be interesting to see a circuit diagram from such an induction  cooking plate.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mrzlica on January 02, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
test no.3, one coil, 96%

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene07en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene07en.htm)

by
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 02, 2013, 11:01:09 PM
test no.3, one coil, 96%

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene07en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene07en.htm)

by

Results are in very good agreement with the lightmeter result. Now the issue is tracking down the reason for the unusually high figure from the scope measurements.

Again, I suggest measuring the induction cooker's output coil directly and computing its power using the same scope settings as before. Then, "zoom out" the timebase and trigger the scope on the modulation envelope, showing two or three full cycles of the envelope, and let the scope recompute the power curve over a more realistic time interval, one which doesn't just count the peak values within one "fat" part of the envelope, but rather counts several cycles of the modulation envelope. My prediction is that using the same settings as before, the output coil will also show "overunity" but a little more than the receiving bifilar coil. I'll say it will be very close to 2000 Watts. Then when the zoomed-out envelope is measured, the average power will drop to around 1000 Watts, of which 96 percent is getting to the receiving bifilar coil.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: gotoluc on January 03, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
Hi everyone,

Happy New Year

Here is a test video made by Romero UK with an interesting idea. He added a feedback using a grid tie inverter.

Luc

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on January 03, 2013, 07:10:46 AM
Hi everyone,

Happy New Year

Here is a test video made by Romero UK with an interesting idea. He added a feedback using a grid tie inverter.

Luc

Very cool. Hmm. How does the inverter output become in sync with the wall power?  If they are off freq...  I dunno.

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: gotoluc on January 03, 2013, 07:19:43 AM
Very cool. Hmm. How does the inverter output become in sync with the wall power?  If they are off freq...  I dunno.

Mags

Hey Mags :D

I would guess that it auto syncs to the grid sine wave phase since it's designed to tie to a grid. I would hope anyways :-\

Keep an eye on it as he may answer.

Luc
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: romerouk on January 03, 2013, 01:12:05 PM
Very cool. Hmm. How does the inverter output become in sync with the wall power?  If they are off freq...  I dunno.

Mags
the grid tie inverter is automaticaly checking to be in sync with the wall power, this feature can be used with many other experiments.

Best Regards,
Romero
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 03, 2013, 07:48:40 PM
I have quickly processed the data from Naudin's new test #5 measurements.

And I must say I'm a bit confused myself now :p. I calculated the power output using two different methods, one is using the mean the is using the root mean square. Both of these results should have given the same result or atleast very close to eachother, however in these calculations the average is lower than the RMS. Does anyone have a clue what might have caused this?

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: synchro1 on January 03, 2013, 08:35:11 PM

Or, maybe 1 receiver coil on both sides of the transmitter coil?  I dont know if one will take away from the other.

Mags

The important conclusion to Sohei's video is that counter wound facing bifilar reciever coils are Lenz Free!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 03, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
I have quickly processed the data from Naudin's new test #5 measurements.

And I must say I'm a bit confused myself now :p. I calculated the power output using two different methods, one is using the mean the is using the root mean square. Both of these results should have given the same result or atleast very close to eachother, however in these calculations the average is lower than the RMS. Does anyone have a clue what might have caused this?

http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf

Quote
The average of the square of the power is clearly 50 watts, and the square root
of that is 7.0711. . . watts. We found earlier that the equivalent heating power of
our circuit – the average power -- was 5 watts, not 7. The RMS value of power
is not the equivalent heating power and, in fact, it doesn’t represent any
useful physical quantity. The RMS and average values of nearly all waveforms
are different. A notable exception is a steady DC waveform (of constant value),
for which the average, RMS, and peak values are all the same.
It should be noted that the term “RMS power” is (mis)used in the consumer audio
industry. In that context, it means the average power when reproducing a single
tone, but it’s not actually the RMS value of the power.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 03, 2013, 11:17:18 PM
http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf (http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf)

Thanks for the pdf however that's not the issue here though. In the pdf he talks about the RMS OF the resulting power waveform which is indeed a pointless thing to calculate. I added this to the previous spreadsheet as an example, but as he states it has no real usage.

However calculating the power with RMS current and voltage should give the same result as taking the average (not RMS) of the power waveform as he also states in the pdf.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 04, 2013, 01:00:39 AM
Thanks for the pdf however that's not the issue here though. In the pdf he talks about the RMS OF the resulting power waveform which is indeed a pointless thing to calculate. I added this to the previous spreadsheet as an example, but as he states it has no real usage.

However calculating the power with RMS current and voltage should give the same result as taking the average (not RMS) of the power waveform as he also states in the pdf.

Well, there are a couple of strangenesses in the spreadsheet. In the first place, the "RMS" values for voltage and current are using this formula: SQRT(Sum(J3:J602)/602)
But there aren't 602 values, there are only 600. This is a minor error, though. It would be better and easier to use
=SQRT(AVERAGE(J3:J602))
to calculate the RMS current and voltage values.

But the multiplication of the RMS current and the RMS voltage equals the _average_ power ..... but it's labelled "Power RMS" in column G.

The "Average Power" calculation in column F includes "negative power" values because of the way it's calculated, and these negative values bring the "average" down:
=AVERAGE(E3:E602)
where the E values are the instantaneous multiplications of the current and voltage readings, some of which are negative. The way to get a true average power here is to integrate these readings (to get the area under the power curve, in Joules) and divide by the time interval to yield an average Wattage. But the spreadsheet apparently can't  integrate or at least I can't find the integral function.

But f you take the absolute values of the instantaneous power values in column E and average those (getting rid of the negatives), you get a figure that is almost the same as the value of the Average Power (column "G" labelled "Power RMS")  calculated by multiplying the RMS voltage by the RMS current. I think the difference is just rounding error.

I don't know if this is right or wrong; I don't know how the original data were gathered or how the scope was set. There have been power computation errors introduced by incorrect use of AC coupling in some other cases.....

Where did these values come from, anyway? Is this a data dump from a DSO?

ETA: Yes, of course they are. I forgot which thread I was in for a moment, sorry.

You can revert to the way it was before I got into it by displaying the "revision history" and reverting to the version before "stellanokia" edits.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: crazycut06 on January 04, 2013, 01:36:53 AM

Or, maybe 1 receiver coil on both sides of the transmitter coil?  I dont know if one will take away from the other.

Mags

Hi Mags, @ All,
Here's woopyjump's second attempt video!  :o :o :o  load 7x400W halogen lamp...
Power input = 755 W
Power output = 164.5V x 22.3A = 3,668W!!! :o :o :o
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Magluvin on January 04, 2013, 02:33:59 AM

Hi Mags, @ All,
Here's woopyjump's second attempt video!  :o :o :o  load 7x400W halogen lamp...
Power input = 755 W
Power output = 164.5V x 22.3A = 3,668W!!! :o :o :o

Thanks C

Interesting. less than nominal change to the input and the large load coil when adding 100w. AND, it seems so far that his readings and calculations are, what they are.

Woopy? Have you delved into finding what freq the heater is driving its coil? Most meters will specify what freq range they can read accurately.

quad fi coil.  Instead of having 100v lets say at the input across the coil and 50v pot difference between adjacent windings like a bifi, the quad will have 25v between adjacent windings with an input of 100v. Both bifi and quad with the same number of turns.
I wonder if the quad acts differently in a transformer?

Woopy? How does the quadfi work on its own, without the other bifi coil on the heater?

Nice work, as always.  ;)

Mags
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 04, 2013, 03:08:41 AM
Interesting indeed.

I'm not sure if I trust the meters,especially the clamp meter. But if the voltmeter is reading correctly......
If those are 400 watt bulbs at 220 V, and power P = VI, then the current for one bulb plugged to the mains must be I = P/V or 400 Watts / 220 V = 1.81 Amps.
This means the on-state resistance of those bulbs is P = I2R or R = P/I2, or 400/3.3 = around 121 ohms, or for seven in parallel about 17.3 ohms. At line frequency, of course.

And 165 volts seeing a load of 17.3 ohms ..... well, it shouldn't be drawing 22.3 Amps, that's for sure.  I = V/R = 165/17.3 =  about 9.54 amps .... And as the frequency goes up, the impedance of the bulbs should rise, shouldn't it?

There is something wrong with the meter readings. It is futile to attempt power measurements on a high-frequency, envelope-modulated signal using DMMs !

(Edited to correct the first computation which used 500 Watt bulbs)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: ramset on January 04, 2013, 04:11:30 AM
5 minute test
If you have to play with light bulbs,and you want an idea of your output percentage  .I have found this method excellent for Cheap seat of the pants calorimetry.

Take just one of the bulbs from the "Load" array and set it up in one liter of water as pictured,[start Cold, never put a hot bulb in the vessel].
note the water temp start the device run for X [5 min?] amount of time "note the water temp at shut down .
Now take one of the bulbs plug it into the mains thru a Killowatt meter and run the same exact test again.... [this will be your baseline]
Compare temps.
It should be quite evident very quickly if the bulbs are putting out similar energy.

Useful test for checking bulb "energy Output"in a test array Versus
a known "fully lit" bulb. {eliminates the "IT looks Fully lit to me" Craziness}
Thx
Chet

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MileHigh on January 04, 2013, 05:27:52 AM
Quote
Power output = 164.5V x 22.3A = 3,668W!!!

Yes but did it _feel_ like 3668 watts?

Did Woopy get startled and remark about the blast of infrared heat he would have had to have felt the moment he switched it on?

Did he jump at the blinding super intense brightness of the halogen lights that would have to have happened if the power dissipation was 3668 watts?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: woopy on January 04, 2013, 11:01:01 AM
Thanks C

Interesting. less than nominal change to the input and the large load coil when adding 100w. AND, it seems so far that his readings and calculations are, what they are.

Woopy? Have you delved into finding what freq the heater is driving its coil? Most meters will specify what freq range they can read accurately.

quad fi coil.  Instead of having 100v lets say at the input across the coil and 50v pot difference between adjacent windings like a bifi, the quad will have 25v between adjacent windings with an input of 100v. Both bifi and quad with the same number of turns.
I wonder if the quad acts differently in a transformer?

Woopy? How does the quadfi work on its own, without the other bifi coil on the heater?

Nice work, as always.  ;)

Mags

Hi Mag

As i say in my video i also do not trust my meters, and especially the ampclamp.

But this video is made to show the different config and the amazing possibilities of this induction coils.

With this small plate i can now use my scope because the max voltage stays in the range of the screen of my beginner scope.

The scope image is very near from what JLN get

There is a modulation with the voltage growing than stay ,than decrease and this on a 100 Hz range

Than inside this modulation i get a special sine wave which is thick and max 100 volt on the upper side and thinner and up to 220 volts on the down side , and this on a frequency of 20 kHz. (on my other bigger inductionplate Tristar, the frequency is about 25 kHz)

I wonder if the combination of those wave are perhaps important? It remember me of Stivep work on the TV yoke some time ago.

So my ampclamp is limited to 10kHz and my measurement is probably not relevant as i say in the video. I have seen on other forum that the measurement of this output power is not easy at all. But if we do not try we will never know. ::)

But what is important here is too see that the 7 halos are very bright (surely not full) and i can add a incandescent lamp with an other Tesla without loosing performance. Romero as managed to loop back some energy also with an extra coil.

I have to make a lot of test with different config to get the right impedance matching for this small induction plate :P

I have tested the quadfilar directly on the induction and connected to the 7 halos, and it works very well but it seems some less brightness as per the bifi, and it become very hot (it is 4 telephone wire very thin) and on the scope the frequency seems more regular between upper and down side (i mean more near a sine wave)

I hope that this video will encourage some of you to replicate,  because it is really easy to do and the more we are the faster we will see the real deal.

OK hope this helps

Good luck at all

Laurent

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 04, 2013, 12:23:56 PM
Would it be practical to take the output through a bridge rectifier, then to a capacitor(bank) then over a known load power resistor? (also in series with a shunt) and then measure DC Volts and DC amps?
Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 04, 2013, 12:34:57 PM
I don't know if this is right or wrong; I don't know how the original data were gathered or how the scope was set. There have been power computation errors introduced by incorrect use of AC coupling in some other cases.....

I must say this is indeed wrong, you can't just alter negative power like that HOWEVER this has opened my eyes to something. Negative power is important as it's an indication of a capacitive/inductive load. Doing Irms*Vrms will give you the APPARENT power. Since Naudin is using a resistive load only, at least assumed to be, he's using that value as the power output of the system. However doing avg(I*V), the method I prefer, will give you the REAL power irregardless of the load you have attached.

And another note on the negative power part now that we are on the subject. This is definitely a big anomaly, whereas the previous more fine grained data from Test #2 resulted in RMS = AVG and showed no negative power whatsoever. Test #5 however shows quite a bit of negative power, in fact you can see on the graphs that the sampling isn't very clean and quite erratic resulting in big differences between RMS and AVG.

On the graph of Test #5 you can easily see that the signal wave is enveloped by a 100Hz carrier wave. Perhaps this information can be used to apply a power correction on the more fine grained data from Test #2.

In the below sheet I did exactly that. I enveloped the data with one period of a 100Hz sine wave which takes 0.01s, since the original data does not go to that length I had carefully copy and paste the data over a few periods to reach that duration. Now please note this assumes that Naudin's Test #2 data is taken at its maximum readings inside of the envelope, if this is not the case then the power correction calculated in the spreadsheet is underestimating the true value.

So to sum things up:
- Data from Test #5 shows sampling anomalies due to larger scale; results in big differences between RMS and Average power
- Data from test #2 is much cleaner; almost no difference between RMS and Average power but disregards 100Hz carrier wave
- Data from test #2 can be corrected with a 100Hz carrier wave; assuming the data was taken when the carrier wave was at maximum or else the calculated power from this is underestimated

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on January 04, 2013, 03:44:47 PM
Could Woopy or somebody try placing a DIODE (not a bridge) in SERIES with one of the wires coming
from the Bifilar Coil.  Perhaps a minimum of a 10 Amp Diode should do the job just to try it.

I am wondering if the Pulsed DC output will set up a ROTATING MAGNETIC FIELD
in the circular Bifilar Coil, thus MAGNIFYING THE OUTPUT.

I don't have an induction cooker so I can't try it.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: broli on January 04, 2013, 03:52:31 PM
Could Woopy or somebody try placing a DIODE (not a bridge) in SERIES with one of the wires coming
from the Bifilar Coil.  Perhaps a minimum of a 5 or 6 Amp Diode should do the job just to try it.

More like 20A-50A if you don't want to see something smoke.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 04, 2013, 04:57:12 PM
@broli: Thanks for that analysis. I thought that simply taking the AVERAGE(ABS(instPowerVals)) wasn't exactly correct. Interesting how closely it matches the figure determined from the RMS values though.

I found this, which is a pretty complete teardown and analysis of a typical low-cost induction cooker. It includes an LTSpice circuit sim for the power section of the circuit.

http://openschemes.com/2010/11/11/1800w-induction-cooktop-teardown/

It includes a schematic and waveforms. It also makes the point that there is a lot of current circulating in the coil/caps/IGBTs, so Broli's point about needing a high-current diode is a good one.

I am also learning about induction lighting....
http://sound.westhost.com/lamps/induction.html

Anyhow...... it's pretty clear that the 50 or 60, or 100 or 120 Hz envelope modulation is fooling both the DMMs and the scope (since the scope is only sampling the peak values and not the entire envelope).

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 04, 2013, 05:03:58 PM
There is a difference in the "quality" of the light produced by incandescent bulbs driven at high frequencies. The light seems brighter than it should for the power consumption.... but in my experience the glass of the bulbs darkens fairly quickly. This has been explained to me as tungsten/metal vapor deposition on the glass, essentially sputter-coating the glass with boiled-off metal from the filaments. Some of the bulbs I use for my wireless power receivers (much higher frequency than these cookers) are almost black from this deposition, after only a relatively short time in use (minutes to hours).
I'm wondering if the bulbs powered by the cookers thru the bifilar pickup coils also darken quickly.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casman1969 on January 04, 2013, 11:09:10 PM
Light and lumens as an indicator of overunity????
Let's do this the simple ( my level ) way by using a high amp hour battery connected to a 2kw inverter, feed the induction heater from its output, use the output coil(s) stepped down (transformer) bridge rectified output to loop back to the battery and see if there is a net gain or loss. If a net = or gain on the battery, then you really do have something. simple impedance matching from the output coil to the input step down tranny seems to me to be the easiest way to validate. Is this unreasonable or undoable?

Just my bleacher seat two cents worth.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: cHenriques on January 05, 2013, 02:24:47 AM
very interesting, look more replications
http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?s=9852b32076335acd4e62d26f162bb149&showtopic=1031&st=60
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 05, 2013, 06:43:32 PM
very interesting, look more replications
http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?s=9852b32076335acd4e62d26f162bb149&showtopic=1031&st=60 (http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?s=9852b32076335acd4e62d26f162bb149&showtopic=1031&st=60)
My French is rudimentary but the scopeshots and spreadsheet graphs are pretty revealing.

So... do _you_ think it is appropriate to start sampling at the zero of the outer envelope, and stop sampling at the next zero? Or would it be better to sample across several zeros of the outer envelope?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: cHenriques on January 05, 2013, 07:11:02 PM

sampling across several zeros of outer envolepe would be better I think. The problem can be a sample rate issue But to prove if is or not OU I think that They must depart all scope tests, ligth and temperature, because there are high frequencies and harmonics and if is a flat bifilar tesla coil and with all the theory about this so very different effects can exist, the light different and the resistive load have a different temperature relationship.

So the closed loop must be tried like RomeroUK, use resistive load  more indutive, step it down, rectifiing in a capacitor and put it in the battery

best regards
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2013, 12:10:08 AM
Light and lumens as an indicator of overunity? ???
Let's do this the simple ( my level ) way by using a high amp hour battery connected to a 2kw inverter, feed the induction heater from its output, use the output coil(s) stepped down (transformer) bridge rectified output to loop back to the battery and see if there is a net gain or loss. If a net = or gain on the battery, then you really do have something. simple impedance matching from the output coil to the input step down tranny seems to me to be the easiest way to validate. Is this unreasonable or undoable?

Just my bleacher seat two cents worth.

Yes, that is the right way.
You can then also use a charged supercap to start the process and see, if the supercap will discharge or charge... !

If it will charge up, you have proven that the system  is overunity.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2013, 06:10:26 AM
Hmm,
I still have 2 questions:

How do they regulate the power output of the eddy current coil inside the cooker via the LCD display control ?

Is it this kind of envelope AM modulation they use to set the used power level ?
How is the envelope changed to set the power levels ?

In the circuit diagramm user targor posted,  it seems they have NO separation of the
grid power to the coil,
so be careful not to touch the transmitter coil, as it coul kill you to touch it, as there is no separation to ground..
No transformer used there...

2. Question: WHy does the aluminium cooler plate get not hot inside the cooker ?
It should also get hot by eddy currents...

Is it not made out of full aluminium metal ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 06, 2013, 08:34:06 AM

Is it this kind of envelope AM modulation they use to set the used power level ?
How is the envelope changed to set the power levels ?

the envelope does not change it is 50 hz

but the frequency ( ~ 20khz ) change with the load ( or inductance of the load )

Quote
2. Question: WHy does the aluminium cooler plate get not hot inside the cooker ?
It should also get hot by eddy currents...

Is it not made out of full aluminium metal ?

i think it is a security to do not burn you ( not full aluminium )

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 06, 2013, 04:03:12 PM
The "depth" of the envelope modulation is how the output power is set, I think.
And the cookware that works with these cookers is ferromagnetic; all-aluminum pans don't work as well or at all, according to what I see on the internet. Supposedly you should check your pots and pans with a magnet; if the magnet sticks to the bottom they are supposed to work with the inductive cookers. You can even get special flat, magnetic, plates to go on top of the cooker so you can use your regular all-aluminum pans on the cooker.

ETA: I don't know if this is because of eddy current, or because the cookers need some kind of signal to start up.

ETA2: All the wal-mart and target stores in my area are sold out of the lower-cost models of these cookers. Either there is a lot of cooking going on.... or there are a lot of people doing FE research with them !!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 06, 2013, 06:05:32 PM

The "depth" of the envelope modulation is how the output power is set, I think.

The "depth" of the envelope depends of the 20khz modulation frequency ( 18 to 20 khz )
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 06, 2013, 07:25:38 PM

The "depth" of the envelope depends of the 20khz modulation frequency ( 18 to 20 khz )

Hmmm.... OK, maybe I am starting to understand. I don't quite see how the HF frequency could control the amplitude (what I called "depth") of the envelope.... but perhaps the explanation in the .pdf has the answer.

In the .pdf paper linked on page 2 by Wings, the explanation for the envelope seems to be that it is a deliberately allowed ripple which helps power factor correction, if I am understanding properly.

Quote
The AC main (220V, 50Hz) is routed through EMI / EMC filter
before being fed to the bridge rectifier. The output of the
rectifier is passed through an inductor and a capacitor C.
The capacitor C is of small capacity (5uF) so that the DC
voltage (Vdc) across C does not get leveled. This in turn
also helps to improve the overall power factor of the
system. The return path of the high frequency current is
through this capacitor C as at high frequency C offers
negligible capacitive reactance ( ), where f is in KHz
range, hence, the capacitor C acts as a short circuit and
allows high frequency current to flow. It also acts as
higher order harmonic filter at the same cost.

Quote
The depth of heat
penetration on cooking pan is inversely proportional to
operating frequency and the operating frequency is
inversed of operating time period. So, by changing the
IGBT ON-OFF time operating frequency can be changed
and thus the heat penetration on cooking pan can be
controlled.

So it would appear that the envelope is a deliberately allowed ripple at constant frequency (mains) and amplitude (output of FWB in supply) and the power level is controlled by frequency of the HF oscillation within the envelope .... you could think of this as the number of HF cycles included in one envelope cycle, I guess.  Does this seem correct to you?

It's making more sense now... I think ...  Thanks, tagor.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2013, 08:52:34 PM
Hmm,
thzanks tagor and TK for the explanations.

Pretty strange circuit !

Why don´t they not just use some kind of Joule Ringer circuit, where you
can set the pulse frequency of some positive pulses ?

WHy do they need the 50 Hz Amplitude modulation at all ?

I still don´t understand why the aluminium cooler plate for the IGBT is not affected
by the eddy currents or also the circuit board in the cooker ?
Is it too fra away from the coil ?

Is it just a magnetic heating effect only, so you need to have real ferromagnetic material,
as the frequency is too low with about 20 Khz ?

Hmm,
what do you think of the latest Power measurements from Naudin.
If you optically integrate the areas under the envelopes and spikes, it seems
that he has more than 2000 Watts output with less input...

But can we trust these measurements ?

The true solution would really be using charged supercaps or el. caps
running an inverter and powering the cooker plate with it and then
use the bifilar output coil to bridge rectify the output and charge up
the caps and see, if this will loop indefinately or the cap charge will run down ?

I guess it will run down, but you never will know...

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: fritz on January 06, 2013, 08:56:22 PM
... the modulation seen in the traces is just a fragment of the overall modulation.
The used trigger method /  horizontal deflection / holdoff shows a periodic picture of an a- oder pseudo periodic event - which cannot be used to extrapolate the overall efficiency.

rgds.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 06, 2013, 11:24:48 PM
I think the Joule heating of the coffeepot is the best output power measurement he's made so far. There is not much that can go wrong with the method the way he did it.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 07, 2013, 07:12:42 AM
I think the Joule heating of the coffeepot is the best output power measurement he's made so far. There is not much that can go wrong with the method the way he did it.

ok the pdf is a good answer

JLN is doing a lot of measurement , wait and see

for the circuit it is not "a good solution" it is the cheapest one
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 07, 2013, 07:50:29 AM

JLN is doing a lot of measurements with only one envelope and
all those measurements are with the same cop ...

but if the envelope is varying all the time he need to take in count
a lot of envelope this is the big problem with the data
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 08, 2013, 05:05:10 AM
I think the Joule heating of the coffeepot is the best output power measurement he's made so far. There is not much that can go wrong with the method the way he did it.

Yes, the test with the water hettle boiler was the most accurate and as this one and the light comparison test
showed underunity, the whole setup seems not to be overunity....
Too bad...but did you expect from just an aircore transformer with no external input via the environment ?

Maybe it could be brought to overunity mode, if the transmitter coil is wired to house ground
and the driver current , after going through the transmitter coil not being connected to the grid ground,
but only to a house ground or water pipe ?
Then the transmitter coil could suck in free electrons from the ground and the input current will
go down...

2. Also it would be interesting to see how iron wire for the bifilar output coil would work and also  it would
be interesting to see, if grounding the bulb loads to a water pipe will decrease the input currents for the transmitter coil.

So basically you will have then some Avramenko Plug design at work, so a one wire resonance system which
could suck in free electrons from the ground line...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: dllabarre on January 08, 2013, 05:14:40 AM

2. Also it would be interesting to see how iron wire for the bifilar output coil would work and also  it would
be interesting to see, if grounding the bulb loads to a water pipe will decrease the input currents for the transmitter coil.

Regards, Stefan.

I think the iron wire would heat up like a steel/iron pan on the stove top would heat.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: crazycut06 on January 08, 2013, 07:17:45 AM
Yes, the test with the water hettle boiler was the most accurate and as this one and the light comparison test
showed underunity, the whole setup seems not to be overunity....
Too bad...but did you expect from just an aircore transformer with no external input via the environment ?

Maybe it could be brought to overunity mode, if the transmitter coil is wired to house ground
and the driver current , after going through the transmitter coil not being connected to the grid ground,
but only to a house ground or water pipe ?
Then the transmitter coil could suck in free electrons from the ground and the input current will
go down...

2. Also it would be interesting to see how iron wire for the bifilar output coil would work and also  it would
be interesting to see, if grounding the bulb loads to a water pipe will decrease the input currents for the transmitter coil.

So basically you will have then some Avramenko Plug design at work, so a one wire resonance system which
could suck in free electrons from the ground line...

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,
I asked romerouk if he had tried to use an earth ground with his setup, but he replied, there's no difference on output power.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 08, 2013, 08:51:25 AM

I think the iron wire would heat up like a steel/iron pan on the stove top would heat.

Yes, but I guess how much would depend on the thickness on the wire...
Otherwise there is also stranded iron wire, something like this which is used
for 12 Volts halogen lighting where they put 2 wires besides each other in
parallel and hang these halogen spots between them.

These are stranded iron wires and come with an isolation plastic coating
around them.
Would be interesting to see, if they will also heat up too fast...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 08, 2013, 08:52:17 AM

Hi Stefan,
I asked romerouk if he had tried to use an earth ground with his setup, but he replied, there's no difference on output power.

Yes, maybe not in output power, but what about the input power ?

Will it be lower then ?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 08, 2013, 09:39:42 AM

2. Question: WHy does the aluminium cooler plate get not hot inside the cooker ?
It should also get hot by eddy currents...

Is it not made out of full aluminium metal ?

Many thanks.

it is not aluminium

see this :

and this

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/an/AN/AN-9012.pdf (http://www.fairchildsemi.com/an/AN/AN-9012.pdf)

http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/5/377.full.pdf (http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/5/377.full.pdf)

PS : JLN is looping is gegene
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on January 08, 2013, 04:32:42 PM
These are stranded iron wires and come with an isolation plastic coating
Presumably you mean steel wires rather than iron wires.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: vrand on January 08, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
JLN latest video on his very interesting Tesla Pancake energy device, this time adding a feedback coil for input to an inverter:
GEGENE : Closed Loop test Phase 2 with a Grid Tie Inverter
Cheers
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 08, 2013, 05:26:52 PM
The next logical step would be to feed the Grid Tie Inverter instead of the halogen lamps, use the output from the GTI as input to the induction cooktop.
And use the smaller coil as “extra” power output? (lamps etc)?

Will it be a self-runner with power to spare?

Mike
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 08, 2013, 07:12:52 PM
Why oh why do people insist on using the "box label" on a device as the "output power" no matter "watt" ? If a light bulb says "500 Watts" on it, that does NOT mean that it will always dissipate 500 Watts !! This is its rated power dissipation when it is supplied with its rated voltage from a source capable of supplying the necessary current so that the voltage doesn't sag. Just because there are 1800 watts of bulbs connected to the circuit and glowing, that does not mean that the circuit is dissipating 1800 Watts !!
Jean-Louis surely knows this.

I am watching this thread and his videos with great amusement. The chances of self-looping are nil. The output power available is less than the input power and he's already confirmed this by two independent sets of measurements: the rough calorimetry, which could NOT be in error by enough to invalidate his results, and also the photometry of the light output.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 08, 2013, 08:23:45 PM
Why oh why do people insist on using the "box label" on a device as the "output power" no matter "watt" ? If a light bulb says "500 Watts" on it, that does NOT mean that it will always dissipate 500 Watts !! This is its rated power dissipation when it is supplied with its rated voltage from a source capable of supplying the necessary current so that the voltage doesn't sag. Just because there are 1800 watts of bulbs connected to the circuit and glowing, that does not mean that the circuit is dissipating 1800 Watts !!
Jean-Louis surely knows this.

I am watching this thread and his videos with great amusement. The chances of self-looping are nil. The output power available is less than the input power and he's already confirmed this by two independent sets of measurements: the rough calorimetry, which could NOT be in error by enough to invalidate his results, and also the photometry of the light output.
Exactly!
If it really produces a true 2.8 out for every 1 in then a looping self-runner should be no problem, (conversion efficiencies included), and it will be the ultimate proof.

Thanks
Mike

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 09, 2013, 02:12:57 AM
Hmm,
from:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene13en.htm

we see, that he uses about 750 Watts from the grid,
but his whole unit needs 990 Watts to run.

So who is supplying the EXTRA 240 Watts ?

Or are the lights bulbs only as bright.
as if really only 750 Watts would be fed into the whole system ???

Hmm...confusing...

As the Kettle water cooker and the light comparison have shown, the system seems to be underunity,
but this new test is baffling again... hmm...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: gotoluc on January 09, 2013, 05:34:21 AM
I don't know why now so many are interested in JLN last video as if he came up with this idea.  The exact same test was done 5 days ago by Romero UK and almost no one commented.

Jan. 3rd Post: http://www.overunity.com/13228/1850-watts-free-energy-power-new-gegene-circuit-by-jl-naudin-shows-cop-2-8/msg349857/#msg349857 (http://www.overunity.com/13228/1850-watts-free-energy-power-new-gegene-circuit-by-jl-naudin-shows-cop-2-8/msg349857/#msg349857)

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 09, 2013, 08:32:16 AM
yes Romero did the same test but it even was more confusing cause he never posted a circuit diagram and not everybody knows how a grid tie inverter works.....

so is this just some kind of bootstrap effect with the second power meter showing wrong values or why does it show 240 watts more input power ??
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Cherryman on January 09, 2013, 08:55:07 AM
What i don't really understand is the fact that JLN has an excellent track record of the most complicated tests and reproductions , with very complicated systems and measurements..

Then he vanishes for a long while ...

And returns with this... stating a bold conclusion.. based on the output of the brightness ...

Am I the only one who find it a little strange..?

He should (or does) know better..

Unless he is trying to tell us something between the lines....

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: vrand on January 09, 2013, 08:56:25 AM
yes Romero did the same test but it even was more confusing cause he never posted a circuit diagram and not everybody knows how a grid tie inverter works.....

so is this just some kind of bootstrap effect with the second power meter showing wrong values or why does it show 240 watts more input power ??

The JLN circuit is on his website:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene13en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene13en.htm)

The idea with the 500 watt inverter is to feed it from the feedback coil and then let it power the cooker coil. In this test it only supplied the cooker coil with 250 watts, while the grid wall plug supplied 750 watts for a total input of around 1000 watts. So net input is 750 watts.

Output of 1880 watts > than 750 watts input.

Looking good  :)
Cheers
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 09, 2013, 11:26:21 PM
Where do you get that 1880 Watts output figure from? Doesn't it come from adding up the "box labels" of the halogen light bulbs?

None of the presently-described testing is better than, or invalidates, the coffee-pot calorimetry measurements. There is no evidence that the system is actually putting out 1880 Watts of power; on the contrary, the coffeepot testing shows that the output power is _in fact_ less than the input power. The lightmeter measurements also indicate that the light bulbs are not being supplied with the full power that they are labelled for.

We have two sets of well-performed testing that show unequivocally that the power out to a load is less than the power in. And we have another few sets of measurements that appear to be improperly done and/or interpreted, using DSO and commercial "wattmeters".  And we now have some irrelevant "looping" trials using an underpowered inverter, which itself is not 100 percent efficient. And we of course continue to mistake labels on boxes for actual power measurements.

Or at least some of us do.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 10, 2013, 12:11:08 AM
Where do you get that 1880 Watts output figure from? Doesn't it come from adding up the "box labels" of the halogen light bulbs?

None of the presently-described testing is better than, or invalidates, the coffee-pot calorimetry measurements. There is no evidence that the system is actually putting out 1880 Watts of power; on the contrary, the coffeepot testing shows that the output power is _in fact_ less than the input power. The lightmeter measurements also indicate that the light bulbs are not being supplied with the full power that they are labelled for.

We have two sets of well-performed testing that show unequivocally that the power out to a load is less than the power in. And we have another few sets of measurements that appear to be improperly done and/or interpreted, using DSO and commercial "wattmeters".  And we now have some irrelevant "looping" trials using an underpowered inverter, which itself is not 100 percent efficient. And we of course continue to mistake labels on boxes for actual power measurements.

Or at least some of us do.

Has anyone mentioned 'power factor' yet :) Sorry, I haven't read 100% of the posts :(

Not considering PFC would account for these (what I believe are) measurement errors.
An inductive load such as a cheap Chinese (correct me if this induction hob is a high-end, power factor corrected model!!!) induction hob is, by definition, quite inductive - this is going to mean a very low Power Factor. This would give the impression of it consuming more power than its actually converting to useful work.
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/energy_audit_instruments/electrical_measuring/how%20to%20measure%20power%20factor.htm

OP: Check out 'real' and 'apparent' power.

How about measuring the PF and correcting for it (as currently its probably not even legal to connect it to the grid!) then re-measuring. Post the PFC circuit here.

I hope I haven't pis&ed-off the OP with this info although it should save him wasting any more of his valuable time.

Ciao,

MBM
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 10, 2013, 01:05:17 AM
Has anyone mentioned 'power factor' yet :) Sorry, I haven't read 100% of the posts :(

Not considering PFC would account for these (what I believe are) measurement errors.
An inductive load such as a cheap Chinese (correct me if this induction hob is a high-end, power factor corrected model!!!) induction hob is, by definition, quite inductive - this is going to mean a very low Power Factor. This would give the impression of it consuming more power than its actually converting to useful work.
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/energy_audit_instruments/electrical_measuring/how%20to%20measure%20power%20factor.htm

OP: Check out 'real' and 'apparent' power.

How about measuring the PF and correcting for it (as currently its probably not even legal to connect it to the grid!) then re-measuring. Post the PFC circuit here.

I hope I haven't pis&ed-off the OP with this info although it should save him wasting any more of his valuable time.

Ciao,

MBM

Just read the manual for the watt meters he's using and there is no accuracy mentioned for the PF measurement which is worrying!
If its anything like the kill-a-watt, popular meter like this and in the same price bracket, then its measurement of PF will be dubious...in one review it measured the PF of a kitchen TV at 0.57!

http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/lambda/IPQPFC.pdf

Incidentally the US PF limit is 0.90 or higher for PF on devices over 75W.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 10, 2013, 03:17:41 AM
Laurent has seen some new modulation effects here:

So can anybody explain the EXTRA 240 Watts display of the second
Wattmeter from Naudin ?

Is it just a wrong display, cause the PowerFactor is wrong calculated or
the pulsed input of the cooker does jam the power meter ??

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: vrand on January 10, 2013, 06:08:28 AM

So can anybody explain the EXTRA 240 Watts display of the second
Wattmeter from Naudin ?

Is it just a wrong display, cause the PowerFactor is wrong calculated or
the pulsed input of the cooker does jam the power meter ??

Regards, Stefan.

From JLN circuit diagram the 240 watts display of the second wattmeter is from the second output coil (looks like 2 to 4 turns) that he shows moving on top of his main pancake coil  in the video.

So he has 2 Output coils:
- the main flat pancake coil, output around 1880 watts.
- the large diameter 2 to 4 turns coil, outputs around 240 watts.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 10, 2013, 08:41:37 AM
Laurent has seen some new modulation effects here:

So can anybody explain the EXTRA 240 Watts display of the second
Wattmeter from Naudin ?

Is it just a wrong display, cause the PowerFactor is wrong calculated or
the pulsed input of the cooker does jam the power meter ??

Regards, Stefan.

The wattmeters are inaccurate when measuring Watts and unspecified measuring PF (PF is required to be known) - he cannot make ridiculous claims based on these meters without taking into account the potential for measurement error.
What you are seeing will be down to measurement errors.
It's likely to have a low PF which also makes it illegal if lower than 0.90 - correct me if I am wrong!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: m786 on January 10, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
Somebody can remember a mustafa device, which is exactly to same as induction heater with feedback coil....

http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/mustafa007/
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: JouleSeeker on January 10, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
The wattmeters are inaccurate when measuring Watts and unspecified measuring PF (PF is required to be known) - he cannot make ridiculous claims based on these meters without taking into account the potential for measurement error.
What you are seeing will be down to measurement errors.
It's likely to have a low PF which also makes it illegal if lower than 0.90 - correct me if I am wrong!

I doubt that the induction cooker realizes such a low PF; may be wrong.

Question (also to TKoala and others):  Would an "official" utility company power meter give an erroneous reading of the input power to this Gegene device -- if the Gegene were the ONLY thing running on that meter?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 10, 2013, 11:22:52 PM
I doubt that the induction cooker realizes such a low PF; may be wrong.

Here is a quote from a review of one particular model:

"Getting technical for a minute, the one other thing that surprised me concerned the hob's power-factor. The manual correctly states that when on Standby, it only consumes about 1 watt. However due to its low power-factor, it's actually pulling over 150VA - basically, 150 watts that 'technically' you don't have to pay for, but the electricity supplier must still provide, in other words, wasted energy! And most should already realise that this kind as 'wastage' is already factored into your bill. And it's definitely not very 'environmentally-friendly'! The manual does mention though that the hob should be disconnected from the mains when not in use."

It's from here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004BM749S

As I mentioned, this is gross measurement error - no magic just poor understanding.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 11, 2013, 01:44:06 AM
I remember hearing that these cheap digital Wattmeters also have problems
showing the real Wattage and Powerfactor,
when you use a dimmer circuit before a load, cause they can´t handle and measure correctly the
cutted sine waves from the dimmer...

Maybe it is the same problem in the Naudin and RomeroUK test with the GridTie Inverter ?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: hartiberlin on January 11, 2013, 03:47:26 AM
Jean Louis has just posted a new Cold Fusion experiment with it
using the output coil as the power source:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene14en.htm

Looks interesting, but he has not yet done any power measurements and efficiency tests.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: JouleSeeker on January 11, 2013, 06:15:00 AM
Here is a quote from a review of one particular model:

"Getting technical for a minute, the one other thing that surprised me concerned the hob's power-factor. The manual correctly states that when on Standby, it only consumes about 1 watt. However due to its low power-factor, it's actually pulling over 150VA - basically, 150 watts that 'technically' you don't have to pay for, but the electricity supplier must still provide, in other words, wasted energy! And most should already realise that this kind as 'wastage' is already factored into your bill. And it's definitely not very 'environmentally-friendly'! The manual does mention though that the hob should be disconnected from the mains when not in use."

It's from here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004BM749S (http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004BM749S)

As I mentioned, this is gross measurement error - no magic just poor understanding.

Hold on.  Let's say one is simply heating a liter of water in a pan on an induction cooker.
We measure the heat OUTPUT by measuring the temp rise of the water.
Then Qout = 4.19 *(mass in g)* (Temp-rise in C).

We measure Pin using a power meter, preferably an "official" power meter supplied by the utility company.

Are you saying that the output energy (Qout) will be LARGER than the measured Pin?

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 08:24:19 AM
Hold on.  Let's say one is simply heating a liter of water in a pan on an induction cooker.
We measure the heat OUTPUT by measuring the temp rise of the water.
Then Qout = 4.19 *(mass in g)* (Temp-rise in C).

We measure Pin using a power meter, preferably an "official" power meter supplied by the utility company.

Are you saying that the output energy (Qout) will be LARGER than the measured Pin?

No, the output from this will always be lower than the input.
All I am saying is that the power results from this system aren't measured correctly and cannot be trusted. The power gains that JLN sees on those little Chinese screens can be explained by poor measurement methods.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 08:47:19 AM
No, the output from this will always be lower than the input.
All I am saying is that the power results from this system aren't measured correctly and cannot be trusted. The power gains that JLN sees on those little Chinese screens can be explained by poor measurement methods.

When claiming gains like this and asking people to replicate, all it's doing is causing people to spend time on this rather than something useful!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 11, 2013, 09:19:11 AM
When claiming gains like this and asking people to replicate, all it's doing is causing people to spend time on this rather than something useful!

so !! what are doing on this thread ?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 09:21:31 AM

so !! what are doing on this thread ?

Trying to stop people wasting their time and hopefully drawing people's attention to things that have been missed or measured poorly.

What are you doing on the thread :)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 11, 2013, 09:23:45 AM
Trying to stop people wasting their time and hopefully drawing people's attention to things that have been missed or measured poorly.

What are you doing on the thread :)

to stop the TROLLS
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 09:24:13 AM
Trying to stop people wasting their time and hopefully drawing people's attention to things that have been missed or measured poorly.

What are you doing on the thread :)

I was originally on the thread because I was intrigued - spotting the issues prompted me to post.
Are you happy for people to replicate something which doesn't work?
Can you tell me why the power is measured reliably?
Ta!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tagor on January 11, 2013, 11:40:42 AM
I was originally on the thread because I was intrigued - spotting the issues prompted me to post.
Are you happy for people to replicate something which doesn't work?
Can you tell me why the power is measured reliably?
Ta!

ok you are wright

but a troll repeat the same thing again and again ...
stop trolling
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 12:03:20 PM

ok you are wright

but a troll repeat the same thing again and again ...
stop trolling

I agree, I have mentioned that PF should be considered a couple of times.
Nobody has disputed this yet, I could be wrong - does PF play a big part in the core measurements of this system? Is it the single most important measurement in terms of validation? All the claims are based on power measurements, all I am saying is that they aren't measured properly. Are you saying they are or are you just looking for an argument, I sure wasn't - I thought this info was useful?

Seems to me a troll is someone who points out things which are (not might be) wrong - this benefits others! Dont label people trolls just because they offer sensible advice which you don't like.

Sorry if that appears a little harsh.

Have you replicated the cct or do you have anything to offer to the people who might - or are you simply here to belittle the people who don't blindly believe something is correct?

I don't consider myself a troll although your little outburst certainly makes me feel that you are.

Offer some useful info - don't just bully people who offer sensible info and opinion. There are more opinions than yours. What was wrong with the info or the way it was presented?

You're the troll :)

PS: Are you happy for people to repeat test setup a which aren't correct? Why wouldn't you want to help people? Oh, and helping people isn't necessarily just cheer leading and back slapping - sometimes it's educating people on common measurement errors - this is important as its all part of the validation process......unless you think 'doing things properly' is wrong?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: ramset on January 11, 2013, 02:18:08 PM
MBM
Your Benevolence is getting a bit "strong",Naudlin has been doing this a long time,I don't think he's a hotplate salesman looking to "score" a big month.

The Recent Mix is even more interesting ATM .

Thx
Chet

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: JouleSeeker on January 11, 2013, 04:01:03 PM
Trying to stop people wasting their time and hopefully drawing people's attention to things that have been missed or measured poorly.

What are you doing on the thread :)

So, madebymonkeys, you keep telling us that this Gegene device is "measured poorly" and to stop "wasting time."

IF you are not a troll, tell us HOW to measure the input power PROPERLY.

I challenge you to do it, and stop wasting our time, if you are not a troll.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 06:19:35 PM
So, madebymonkeys, you keep telling us that this Gegene device is "measured poorly" and to stop "wasting time."

IF you are not a troll, tell us HOW to measure the input power PROPERLY.

I challenge you to do it, and stop wasting our time, if you are not a troll.

There is a link in post#94 - I added that link so people could see how to measure it. Have a read, if any of it is confusing so let me know and I will do my best to answer your questions.

If you have a better way of measuring it with accuracy do post it.

MBM.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 11, 2013, 07:03:52 PM
There is a link in post#94 - I added that link so people could see how to measure it. Have a read, if any of it is confusing so let me know and I will do my best to answer your questions.

If you have a better way of measuring it with accuracy do post it.

MBM.

There are also a lot of meters on the market to do the job although they are quite pricey, here is a brochure for one which has some good reviews although there are many. Do note the comment in the brochure about PF being the most important measurement when determining power.

Without a dedicated meter you need to take some decent bandwidth (to catch harmonics) voltage and current measurements over time and do the math shown in my previous link.

It's not straightforward but it's important to do it right otherwise you end up with a product which is illegal to connect to the grid and also some unbelievable power measurements (output significantly larger than input etc).

It's worth doing right.

I use a local test house to do testing as they have the equipment (I don't) - costs about 30mins in time although our test house is quite flexible (some have a minimum of a half day).

Sorry if the above sounds 'trolly' - just trying to point in the right direction because its important - things not done right cause lots of confusion......see 'cold fusion' and its measurement errors, it went from 'wow, the planet is saved' to 'wow, really, you didn't measure that quite right did you' ;)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: frankidel on January 12, 2013, 02:50:49 AM
There is a link in post#94 - I added that link so people could see how to measure it. Have a read, if any of it is confusing so let me know and I will do my best to answer your questions.

If you have a better way of measuring it with accuracy do post it.

MBM.

Eille le singe, ce qui est drole cé quand une personne a une bonne idée, elle fonctionne et voilà que les singes arrivent en ville.......
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 12, 2013, 09:11:29 AM

Eille le singe, ce qui est drole cé quand une personne a une bonne idée, elle fonctionne et voilà que les singes arrivent en ville.......

The monkeys were already in town...taking bad measurements with \$10 power meters!
Stop trolling and add something useful maybe?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: JouleSeeker on January 12, 2013, 02:10:27 PM
Madebymonkeys -- thanks for the pointer to the WT1800.

Are you saying that the Gegene will show WILL DEFINITELY show more input-power usage when measured by the WT1800 or equivalent, than when measured by a standard (utility-provided) power meter?

(Referring to a utility-provided power meter, not a "cheap" power meter such as the kill-a-watt meter)

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 12, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
Madebymonkeys -- thanks for the pointer to the WT1800.

Are you saying that the Gegene will show WILL DEFINITELY show more input-power usage when measured by the WT1800 or equivalent, than when measured by a standard (utility-provided) power meter?

(Referring to a utility-provided power meter, not a "cheap" power meter such as the kill-a-watt meter)

It depends on a number of factors such as whether the utility meter expects the items in the home to adhere to the law or 0.9 or better PF. Outside of this range all bets could be off.

In short, what's the measurement accuracy/resolution of the utility provided meter and can it measure PF outside of legal limits (or will it bottom out at 0.9)?

In short, I don't know for sure what the readings will be with more accurate gear but as a first step I would remove the grid tie and use a resistive load - an incandescent bulb is a good, high-PF load.
Oh, and characterise the hob on its own prior to connecting to other things - get a feel for its PF.

I am about to leave the house but will try and draw a pic of where to measure etc as well as outlining the uncertainties in the measurements - none are 100% accurate.

I am a skeptic (as you probably know) but I am knowledgable on some things. I have made too many measurement errors in the past to let others do the same!

Alternatively, pay a \$100 or so and visit a local test house - they should have the right gear for measuring power quality. JLN should have done this before making big claims!
Making big claims only to have them proven incorrect really batters credibility - best to be as sure as possible first!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: crazycut06 on January 12, 2013, 02:57:08 PM
How about looking at the meter base when the induction cooker is in use with the load, try to count the power within minutes used, then do the same with the halogen lamps only and see if theres any difference on consumption, then calculate for efficiency... Maybe easier to clarify than using a watt meter?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on January 12, 2013, 03:40:16 PM
Messing about with lamps or LEDs seems a waste of time.
JLN has been connecting up to a kettle and measuring the
rise in temp over a known time.

This must be the way to go.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 12, 2013, 04:42:19 PM
MBM
Your Benevolence is getting a bit "strong",Naudlin has been doing this a long time,I don't think he's a hotplate salesman looking to "score" a big month.

The Recent Mix is even more interesting ATM .

Thx
Chet

Sorry about that - I just think that measurement isn't taken seriously by a lot of people.
Power meters range from kill-a-watt devices which make assumptions about the devices connected to it based on the law - they also range up to many thousands which can measure way beyond 50/60Hz and are more accurate.
The hob is probably a chopper in the region of kHz and doesn't seem to show and PFC components on the video (they could be there mind you?).

The difference between professional test gear and a \$10 kill-a-watt is enormous. Given the (optimistic) specs of the KAW I would guess (haven't calced) that, when accumulated, the errors on voltage measurement, current measurement, rounding errors in the math (this is a small uC in it!), timing errors when looking for zero crossings etc you could easily get to some double figure uncertainties (%).
For someone 'on the verge of a world changer' a few k for a decent power meter should be top of the list....or hire one. I doubt that a KAW could measure too many harmonic frequencies although I will buy one on eBay and teardown - the online specs are laughable.

If he has measured everything ok and with some finite element of doubt (say +/-10% for instance) then he should win the Nobel prize. I know that's sarcastic but if there was no measurement uncertainties then he's done it! He should get the OU prize or something.

I will tone-down the benevolence, I am sure he can figure it out :)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 12, 2013, 10:10:54 PM
When... or rather "if"....  he shows massive OU from the coffeepot calorimetry test, I'll start paying much closer attention. So far, that's the best testing Jean-Louis has done yet, and it shows the expected efficiency of less than unity.

I would like to know something: When the halogen bulbs are used as the output load, is there any darkening of the glass happening? The bulbs I use for loads in my wireless power systems, operating at between 500 and 800 kHz, get very much brighter than they do with equivalent DC power, but the filaments apparently are boiling away and sputtercoating the inside of the glass with metal, that fairly quickly turns the glass black. I even see this with NE-2 neons driven with high power/high frequency. A couple of hours of operation and the bulbs can get almost opaque.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 13, 2013, 09:40:43 AM
When... or rather "if"....  he shows massive OU from the coffeepot calorimetry test, I'll start paying much closer attention. So far, that's the best testing Jean-Louis has done yet, and it shows the expected efficiency of less than unity.

I would like to know something: When the halogen bulbs are used as the output load, is there any darkening of the glass happening? The bulbs I use for loads in my wireless power systems, operating at between 500 and 800 kHz, get very much brighter than they do with equivalent DC power, but the filaments apparently are boiling away and sputtercoating the inside of the glass with metal, that fairly quickly turns the glass black. I even see this with NE-2 neons driven with high power/high frequency. A couple of hours of operation and the bulbs can get almost opaque.

If the halogen lights are run lower than 250geg C glass temperature the tungsten bromide will stick to the glass causing a darkening - lower temperature glass could mean running them at a voltage lower than what they were designed for (which in some OU experiments could be likely).

MBM
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 13, 2013, 03:27:12 PM
Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on January 13, 2013, 03:52:34 PM
. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.
I think this is to be expected if you overrun it. It is the process of the filament beginning
to evaporate and deposit on the bulb. The bulb won't last long.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on January 13, 2013, 04:13:26 PM
@ TinselKoala,

Is there anyplace we could find the schematic for that?

Thanks.

.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on January 13, 2013, 04:19:46 PM
Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.

Sorry about that, didn't know what type you were using.
Seems like the ratings on these and halogens should be adhered to where possible - seems the halogens go dark at lower voltage and the incandescents go dark at higher voltage :)
I guess this is a good reason to use a resistive load and also a good reason not to use light output as a measure of performance in a system!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 14, 2013, 04:56:14 AM
I think this is to be expected if you overrun it. It is the process of the filament beginning
to evaporate and deposit on the bulb. The bulb won't last long.
I believe I said the same thing about boiling off the filament and sputter-coating the glass. However, I have yet to have a failure of these bulbs. I think that the material quantity being transported from filament to glass is very small.

I have cracked the glass on some NE-2 bulbs though, from overheating them with the Bedini motor.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 14, 2013, 04:59:32 AM
@ TinselKoala,

Is there anyplace we could find the schematic for that?

Thanks.

.
It's designed to work with my wireless transmitter systems. If you look at my YT channel and search for "wireless power" you'll find a bunch of videos showing the development of the system. The receiver is basically identical to some of the output stages we are seeing in the Kapadnaze threads, coupled through space rather than through a transformer core. Principle is the same, though.
Below I show the full schematic for DC output in addition to lighting the bulb. If only bulb is needed, as in the photo above, then just chop off everything to the right of the bulb.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: pauldude000 on January 31, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
Madebymonkeys -- thanks for the pointer to the WT1800.

Are you saying that the Gegene will show WILL DEFINITELY show more input-power usage when measured by the WT1800 or equivalent, than when measured by a standard (utility-provided) power meter?

(Referring to a utility-provided power meter, not a "cheap" power meter such as the kill-a-watt meter)

I wonder is MBM realizes he is outclassed yet..... :)

The problem inherently is that certain mentalities get stuck in a rut, so to speak, and cannot get out of it. Truthfully, I trust my scope better than someone else's, even if it is inaccurate. If it is accurate, I know that at best the readings are but an approximational measurement of reality.

I guess what I am saying is that so long as the inaccuracy of the tool does not vary it will give a reliable measurement, if not an accurate measurement. You can determine ratios even using junk, so long as the measurements are equally off. MBM should realize it is one part tool, nine parts skill.

For example, one of the worst multimeters I have ever owned was a B&K.... Wouldn't take an accurate measurement to save it's life.

One of the most accurate just happened to be made in China. (Accidents do happen.) It measured precise on known quantity precision resistors. Go figure.

People shouldn't put too much faith in a tool name.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: pauldude000 on January 31, 2013, 12:17:38 PM
Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.

With a peak to peak of 40v your mean voltage may well be way above the factory design rating of 12v of the bulb, and as someone else stated it is evaporating the filament. Use the concept of relativity, in that your bulb may be 'seeing' a constant voltage which is far above 12v, and the resistance (impedance) is changing due to the frequency. It is hard to tell from the pics, but the filament looks like it could be a coil which adds impedance with high frequency AC changing the total resistance of that leg of the circuit. It may well be acting like two resistors in parallel.

Something to think about, and I could well be full of the brown stuff.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: NoBull on January 31, 2013, 03:08:31 PM
I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.
At 800kHz there is no chance for the filament temperature to follow the input waveform, thus peak measurements of the waveform are of little significance in this case.
Do you know what the average current flowing through the filament is?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: jopel on March 27, 2013, 03:40:54 AM
Hello,

i have tested this and it works perfect (1196 Watt Input and 2500 Watt Lightbulbs worked). But can anyone help me to deactivate the pot recognition on my cheap China induction heater? I've seen it on a page, but cant find it anymore - a resistor was changed to a bigger one. In Pic 1 you can see that i tested it with two 1k resistors, but it doesnt work and i changed it back.

greating
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on April 22, 2013, 05:45:02 PM

Induction hob for £29.  (Possibly UK only. Not sure).

Thursday April 25th. Probably limited availability.

.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Eighthman on April 23, 2013, 03:02:55 AM
Arghhhhh !    Somebody Please Slay the Evil Deceptive Power Factor Monster that threatens all these wonderful claims.  Make everything into nice filtered DC and THEN measure it into a load.  Very simple and accurate.

No more trying to integrate weird waveforms and figure out real power. Just Do It.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Farmhand on April 23, 2013, 03:24:30 AM
Arghhhhh !    Somebody Please Slay the Evil Deceptive Power Factor Monster that threatens all these wonderful claims.  Make everything into nice filtered DC and THEN measure it into a load.  Very simple and accurate.

No more trying to integrate weird waveforms and figure out real power. Just Do It.

I agree, somebody at least rectify and smooth the output then run the load from that. If the smoothed DC output shows more than
the rated power of the cooker then we need to look further.

It would seem most people don't want to know what the output actually is, it seems people prefer to make things more complicated than they really are.
When faced with a claimed over unity device the first objective should be to accurately determine the average output power.
The easiest and most accurate way is to rectify and smooth the output for loading and measurement.

What will be funny is when someone like me does measure the rectified and smoothed output and finds it less than the rated and the measured input
using a simple setup, and show the whole debacle could have been put to rest before it started.

Will Naudin be seen as a distractor then or will he just be seen as a very smart man who forgot how to accurately measure the output power of a transformer
with simple equipment ?

Will people just sit and wait for his next distraction ? Or will they jump behind some other distractor.

I've got an induction cooker and the wire I need as well as the smoothing caps ect. if it is up to me to do the test I will be rubbing it right in for some time.

Who seeks truth and who just wants to perpetuate dubious OU claims just for the sake of it ?

If the Smoothed DC output test is not done with in week or two, i'll do it myself. And it will cost me money for load lamps to do it so I will not be happy if it is
left for me to do when others already have the equipment.

Cheers
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on April 26, 2014, 02:54:46 PM
I agree, somebody at least rectify and smooth the output then run the load from that. If the smoothed DC output shows more than
the rated power of the cooker then we need to look further.

It would seem most people don't want to know what the output actually is, it seems people prefer to make things more complicated than they really are.
When faced with a claimed over unity device the first objective should be to accurately determine the average output power.
The easiest and most accurate way is to rectify and smooth the output for loading and measurement.

Cheers

I ... as a layman ... find it very funny talking about disinformation like yourself and the saying that one can take a accurate output measure ; )

I KNOW that 95% of overunity devices produce more when the load is increased and draw less from the source at the SAME time .

So I would say . Nature is in a equilibrium ... you break it and it fills it instantly with MORE just to be sure to balance . The additional energy is absorbed by ... Lead Batteries , Quartz , Water more importantly any living thing . It's never lost .

Free Energy devices work on fluctuation there is no constant energy input for radiant / lenzless or back emf devices .

Higher the load the less energy required from source  .

So what am I saying ?

You can get a COP 0.7 or COP 5+  with the same circuit .

Anyway , there is the MEG , the U Generator the POD Jean Louis built for 50\$ and shows overunity .

Jean Louis Naudin may miss things but he tends to correct them , he may have been visited by Annan whos son is a Big Oil exec but I don't think he's in on disinformation

He is THE BEST replicator of free energy devices and deserves our respect
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Farmhand on May 07, 2014, 08:46:41 PM
If any of those devices had shown over unity the Inventers would be rich, simple fact is none have shown over unity yet that is verified, they are just claims that are most likely based only on their own measurements.

If they have produced OU devices then what happened ? Do people just make an OU device then sit it on the shelf and forget about it then build something else ?

Show us the proof of the over unity operation of these devices. And it should be verified by a neutral third party, a paid analysis, if I had a circuit or device I thought was OU I would check and double triple check then get it evaluated by a qualified professional and get a report on the in/out figures.

The fact that none of these devices are followed through to produce any independent evaluations by the people claiming they have OU and they do nothing with the devices common sense tells me the claims were mistaken at best or fraudulent at worst.

What is the point to developing an OU device then do nothing with it ?

Here's a challenge for you. Choose just one OU device build it, then prove it is OU by showing in out measurements or by looping or prove it by some means. Now you may be able to get some people to believe it but that is not proof.

I hope you spill your next drink on yourself for calling me names.  :P

..
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mscoffman on May 07, 2014, 10:02:44 PM
I ... as a layman ... find it very funny talking about disinformation like yourself and the saying that one can take a accurate output measure ; )

I KNOW that 95% of overunity devices produce more when the load is increased and draw less from the source at the SAME time .

So I would say . Nature is in a equilibrium ... you break it and it fills it instantly with MORE just to be sure to balance . The additional energy is absorbed by ... Lead Batteries , Quartz , Water more importantly any living thing . It's never lost .

Free Energy devices work on fluctuation there is no constant energy input for radiant / lenzless or back emf devices .

Higher the load the less energy required from source  .

So what am I saying ?

You can get a COP 0.7 or COP 5+  with the same circuit .

Anyway , there is the MEG , the U Generator the POD Jean Louis built for 50\$ and shows overunity .

Jean Louis Naudin may miss things but he tends to correct them , he may have been visited by Annan whos son is a Big Oil exec but I don't think he's in on disinformation

He is THE BEST replicator of free energy devices and deserves our respect

Sorry, but I have to come down on the side of Farmhand here.

We live in the semiconductor age, unlike Tesla. These high speed, high current and Shotky diodes are amazing
and could rectify GHz signals and these things would convert them to DC. Diodes let you take advantage
of the law of conservation of energy. If the diodes don't get hot then they must not be loosing very much energy
to losses inside the diodes.

Sorry again but the energy form we seek for practical applications is the kind that flows through diodes in this way.
*For all the rest* it's up to you the device designer to figure out how convert what passes for energy in your book
to you usable electrical power. This is because these other forms of energy depend on what is in your belief book.

Every sort of real energy with pulse etcetera waveform will be accepted ready to be integrated into a high value capacitor.
The low voltage DC and higher DC current enables accurate measurement with inexpensive DVM equipment that can literally
elude computational approaches with high frequency varying waveform equipment. If you have it, do yourself a favor
and measure it this way. It's definitely the Kiss 'keep it simple stupid' approach to power measurement. This is
what some of us are only willing to accept as overunity power or energy proof.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 08, 2014, 06:41:36 PM
Sorry, but I have to come down on the side of Farmhand here.

We live in the semiconductor age, unlike Tesla. These high speed, high current and Shotky diodes are amazing
and could rectify GHz signals and these things would convert them to DC. Diodes let you take advantage
of the law of conservation of energy. If the diodes don't get hot then they must not be loosing very much energy
to losses inside the diodes.

Sorry again but the energy form we seek for practical applications is the kind that flows through diodes in this way.
*For all the rest* it's up to you the device designer to figure out how convert what passes for energy in your book
to you usable electrical power. This is because these other forms of energy depend on what is in your belief book.

Every sort of real energy with pulse etcetera waveform will be accepted ready to be integrated into a high value capacitor.
The low voltage DC and higher DC current enables accurate measurement with inexpensive DVM equipment that can literally
elude computational approaches with high frequency varying waveform equipment. If you have it, do yourself a favor
and measure it this way. It's definitely the Kiss 'keep it simple stupid' approach to power measurement. This is
what some of us are only willing to accept as overunity power or energy proof.

:S:MarkSCoffman

" any sort of real energy " is the problem you have . It's all real and your body runs on over 95% on it ... 5% is the food .

So what you think is usable ?

This is all very nice but the reason why this energy is not usuable has NOTHING to do with it's potential .

The reason is that electronics are designed for the WASTE energy , thats why Tom Bearden writes about Precursor engineering for people to understand .

I have used Lakhovsky Multiwave Oscillator and Papimi devices . SO yes it's about converting it for crappy man made technology vs perfect nature ... plants ,animals & humans

Additionally this energy is used by ALL LOFE FORMS . And it can be stored in Batteries and used by plants and humans for cell regenration .

Also what is shown mechanically with Lenzless or 0 Lenz devices is exactly the same with electromagnetic devices .

It's VERY easy to see that the potential from neutralising 1 of 2 opposing north permanent magnet with electricity for a moment and then releasing it creates a 4-6 fold amount of mechanical energy (gap-power.com ) .

Torque , power everything is there , Howard Johnsons deflecting f Lenz is similar . So there you see it very obviously .

Now I may not be on par technicay with you guys , but I think I make valid points
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: e2matrix on May 08, 2014, 08:05:59 PM
" any sort of real energy " is the problem you have . It's all real and your body runs on over 95% on it ... 5% is the food .

So what you think is usable ?

This is all very nice but the reason why this energy is not usuable has NOTHING to do with it's potential .

The reason is that electronics are designed for the WASTE energy , thats why Tom Bearden writes about Precursor engineering for people to understand .

I have used Lakhovsky Multiwave Oscillator and Papimi devices . SO yes it's about converting it for crappy man made technology vs perfect nature ... plants ,animals & humans

Additionally this energy is used by ALL LOFE FORMS . And it can be stored in Batteries and used by plants and humans for cell regenration .

Also what is shown mechanically with Lenzless or 0 Lenz devices is exactly the same with electromagnetic devices .

It's VERY easy to see that the potential from neutralising 1 of 2 opposing north permanent magnet with electricity for a moment and then releasing it creates a 4-6 fold amount of mechanical energy (gap-power.com ) .

Torque , power everything is there , Howard Johnsons deflecting f Lenz is similar . So there you see it very obviously .

Now I may not be on par technicay with you guys , but I think I make valid points
I like your thinking.   It is the unseen and yet to be well understood energy that will eventually power our world.   Those who think they know everything have yet to even explain gravity.    Bits of information have been hidden and removed from mainstream physics to keep us enslaved to fossil fuel.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 09, 2014, 07:56:03 AM
I like your thinking.   It is the unseen and yet to be well understood energy that will eventually power our world.   Those who think they know everything have yet to even explain gravity.    Bits of information have been hidden and removed from mainstream physics to keep us enslaved to fossil fuel.

Thanks and you make  very interresting point , I wonder if you ever watched Prof.Bass  "Rediscovery of Lost Secret of Moray Radiant Energy .
Systtem "

He claims that it is all Schumann resonance that powered Morays's 20 KW device . Funny thing is that Nobel Prize holder Montagnier shown in his DNA Teleportation ( f#@\$ incredible ) that indeed life is brought back by 7.83 HZ .... wherever it once existed ( the water retains the DNA  information & starts recreating from beginning the original DNA )

So the experiment goes like this , 2 glasses of water with DNA , filter it out completely from one of the 2 glasses . Play 7.83HZ and after 16 hours DNA is starting to be recreated ( proteins ... and so on )

We also know that humans , plants or animals when deprived of 7.83 HZ in bunkers they built in germany for that purpose .... people get Ill , tiered , worn out & very sick after a week +- . Depressed , anxious , aggressive ... Naturally because you are removing the LIFE frequency .

Gravity is only one ingredient , Nature works in Symbiosis as does for instance Biotransmutation or cold fusion ( Alchemy) .

We dealing with many wave forms , Magnetic , Schumann , gravity,light ,sound  ... "time" all these waves interact (resonate with something)and release energy.

I lack the electrical engineering .. so I had to approach it looking at nature like Schauberger & Grebennikov .

If I had HALF the knowledge of electrical engineering people have in these forums I would have built them by now favoring Magnetic as a Magnet is a "generator" by default where then you just need to extract it ( this is what correctly was pointed out by the previous comment )

Look i just ordered the Solartracker V 5 new system by Bedini NOT USING RADIANT as per Lindemann ... I am not happy about it because Bedini spent 20 years telling us about radiant energy and now he flipped on it ? We will wait see what he says .

Radiant was NOT the power ... the power came from what happened in the Battery when it was charged with radiant ( not JUST Pulse charging) ... you can see it in a video i posted (shit spelling ... "Raidiant /Etheric /Orgone - John Benini.)

His wheel spins faster at full moon .. !

Then we now have Keshe from Iran who released 4 GB .. all his files for his device cause they were pressuring him

You have the QEG that now plans have been released

You have Tom Bearden who wrote me that they had been payed some 200 000 000 Mil. for the MEG and that it was held back by UN .... they are not given access to the money !  BUT Jean Louis Naudin built it SUCCESSFULLY .

So most people here should be able to build it ... .

SO MANY DISINFORMATION agents out there ... and if one speaks about how a device DOESN'T work without being able to disprove it .

They are MORE useless than inventors with fake devices !

Thanks 4 sharing and sorry for extensive post  :P
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Farmhand on May 18, 2014, 03:05:47 AM
Yes the disinformation agents are not the ones who say " there is insufficient evidence to prove the over unity claim" they are the ones who make outlandish claims with little to no supporting evidence and declare it as fact while also declaring anyone that even questions the evidence as a paid disinfo agent from the Oil companies or some similarly silly thing.

Just to pick one such situation is the Bedini "radiant" energy rubbish, his energizers/pulse motors simply charge and discharge coils, the effect of which can spin a wheel and charge a battery or capacitor, they have nothing to do with radiant energy except that they produce radiating losses, there is no evidence that I have seen to date that indicates a bedini energizer captures any radiant energy from anywhere. Nothing that bedini's energizers do cannot be done with other arrangements. What he calls "radiant energy" other people call the energy discharged from a coil.

His solar circuit (the two phase pulsing circuit, the patented one) actually open circuits the solar panels for 50% of the time, effectively limiting them to half duty. I urge you to build the device in the patent and see it for your self. I think this has been addressed, but it must be said that the circuit itself is nothing extra ordinary, it simply uses the solar energy to pulse the battery with a higher voltage from a capacitor. Anyone skilled in the art can build a solar capacitor pulser to do very same things. He didn't invent solar tracking so that aspect doesn't even come into it.

Most of all the claims are hearsay or simply unproved, anyone can claim anything without proving it, but those are empty claims.

The word "Radiant" has long been used as a "Buzzword" for advertising and marketing. That's a fact.

..
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MileHigh on May 18, 2014, 04:17:43 AM
Farmhand,

I give you a lot of credit.  I would say that when you look at beginning experimenters on the free energy forums that are new to electronics, you have advanced further in your knowledge than perhaps 98% of the rest of the pack.  Some of them never advance beyond a certain point.

I haven't looked at JL Naudin's work in a few years now, but I did a handful of times before that.  From what I saw at that time,  I honestly was not very impressed.  Lots of equipment and semi-professional presentation skills does not make the experimenter.  It's his knowledge and analytical skills that count.

For the whole AC vs. DC debate, it's not as simple as converting AC into DC.  There is no reason you can't work with AC although the measurements become more challenging.  Also, converting AC into DC is a challenge in itself.  If you use a simple diode or FWBR and capacitor, then the current waveform becomes a pulse waveform.  Before the pulse starts conducting, there are parts of the AC waveform that could be contributing to the power output but aren't.  There are a lot of variables and if you have a design goal, then you can figure out the best way to approach it.  I don't know if there is a magic bullet for this because I am not a hard-core electronics design guy.  Just saying "use DC" is not necessarily correct.

Casstete,

You freely admit you are a layperson, yet you are still drawing conclusions that clearly require sufficient knowledge and experience that you don't have to draw those very same conclusions.  What gives?  I wish I could understand why in the realm of free energy and electronics people believe they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't.

With respect to your newbie status, I can tell you that you have bought into the narrative associated with free energy and have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.  You have to use your critical thinking skills and start questioning what you are reading and doing your own research to check for yourself.  It's almost shocking reading your last few postings.  It's like you were just a "normal person" and you started reading this stuff and just gobbled it up and took it all to be literally true.  That's a really dangerous thing.  The most resent example is the QEG.  I read some postings by a woman on Facebook.  She left her family, I believe including young children, to go to Morocco to help out by cooking and doing whatever else she can, but she is not technical.  She left her FAMILY to run off to Morocco.  As I state in another posting, in x number of weeks she will be coming back home empty-handed having accomplished nothing.  It's sad actually.

You know the famous radio broadcast of The War of the Worlds in 1938?  People were in a panic and started to flee.  That's the kind of thing that's happening to you right now, same for the mother who left her kids to go to Morocco, and same for many people on the QEG bandwagon.

If it sounds too good to be true, then use Google and do at least an hour or more of research.  Don't be afraid to do a "negative" search also, like "<subject> fraud" or "<subject> hoax."

MileHigh
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mscoffman on May 18, 2014, 07:37:07 PM
Yes the disinformation agents are not the ones who say " there is insufficient evidence to prove the over unity claim" they are the ones who make outlandish claims with little to no supporting evidence and declare it as fact while also declaring anyone that even questions the evidence as a paid disinfo agent from the Oil companies or some similarly silly thing.

Just to pick one such situation is the Bedini "radiant" energy rubbish, his energizers/pulse motors simply charge and discharge coils, the effect of which can spin a wheel and charge a battery or capacitor, they have nothing to do with radiant energy except that they produce radiating losses, there is no evidence that I have seen to date that indicates a bedini energizer captures any radiant energy from anywhere. Nothing that bedini's energizers do cannot be done with other arrangements. What he calls "radiant energy" other people call the energy discharged from a coil.

His solar circuit (the two phase pulsing circuit, the patented one) actually open circuits the solar panels for 50% of the time, effectively limiting them to half duty. I urge you to build the device in the patent and see it for your self. I think this has been addressed, but it must be said that the circuit itself is nothing extra ordinary, it simply uses the solar energy to pulse the battery with a higher voltage from a capacitor. Anyone skilled in the art can build a solar capacitor pulser to do very same things. He didn't invent solar tracking so that aspect doesn't even come into it.

Most of all the claims are hearsay or simply unproved, anyone can claim anything without proving it, but those are empty claims.

The word "Radiant" has long been used as a "Buzzword" for advertising and marketing. That's a fact.

..

@farmhand

You are saying that Bedini has moved away from "radiant energy" tech and I believe that is correct. There really is no such
thing as radiant energy, but what he was using was not directly radiant energy but high voltage pulsing with static electricity.
He wanted to take advantage of what works and what did not change. That is; impedence matching through using
capacitors as DC charge pumps. While it has its drawbacks his currect tech can be used with most any battery technology,
he also combined this with four stage process of battery charging including pulse charging but not with abnormally
high voltage pulses.

His radiant charging only worked with acid/lead battery chemistry and unregulated high voltage pulsing would blow out
capacitors and probably damage supercapacitors as well. Radiant charging knocks bubbles off the plates in water based acid/lead
batteries when opportunistic cosmic events are happening in a way that battery charging power is highly decoupled from the power
of the static electric pulse used to trigger the bubbles release. Other problems with this include important charge process termination
after subjecting the battery to high voltage pulses. The long thread by turion on energeticforum.com that is using a "bad" or "sensor"

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 19, 2014, 10:30:48 AM
...

Just to pick one such situation is the Bedini "radiant" energy rubbish, his energizers/pulse motors simply charge and discharge coils, the effect of which can spin a wheel and charge a battery or capacitor, they have nothing to do with radiant energy except that they produce radiating losses, there is no evidence that I have seen to date that indicates a bedini energizer captures any radiant energy from anywhere. Nothing that bedini's energizers do cannot be done with other arrangements. What he calls "radiant energy" other people call the energy discharged from a coil.

His solar circuit (the two phase pulsing circuit, the patented one) actually open circuits the solar panels for 50% of the time, effectively limiting them to half duty. I urge you to build the device in the patent and see it for your self. I think this has been addressed, but it must be said that the circuit itself is nothing extra ordinary, it simply uses the solar energy to pulse the battery with a higher voltage from a capacitor. Anyone skilled in the art can build a solar capacitor pulser to do very same things. He didn't invent solar tracking so that aspect doesn't even come into it.

Most of all the claims are hearsay or simply unproved, anyone can claim anything without proving it, but those are empty claims.

The word "Radiant" has long been used as a "Buzzword" for advertising and marketing. That's a fact.

..

I see , so when you see him using a   0.37 Watt old school panel changing a 20 Amp hour Battery .. It's trickery ?

Or when he shows you in energy from the Vacuum how "the moment the batteries are full "

The Source requires 2-3 times more energy to keep the wheel spinning "slower" than with empty batteries ... that doesn't tell you anything ?

Or when it spins faster at full moon , corroberated by other free energy inventors ?

Nothing , it's all BS ? NAA MAN .

You just STILL AFTER SO MANY YEARS DON'T UNDERSTAND .. that the potential DOESN'T COME FROM THE PULSES .

I mean sorry but FFS , Bedini tells you that testing the output from the wheel is NOT THE POINT !

It's going BEHIND the Battery pack and seeing how long it took to charge and how much energy there is .

By the way I also uploaded the part of Bedini showing the Radiant , others call Orgone , Ormus and whatnot .

IF you didn't get that by now ... you should not bother .

The Problem with the radiant is and was that it still boils the Battery , this they want to avoid with a linear technology brand new design .

They run a Battery powered Screwdriver "direct off panel" whilst charging 30 AMp hour battery at SAME TIME .

You show me the f***** charger that does that now please !
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 19, 2014, 10:42:18 AM
@farmhand

You are saying that Bedini has moved away from "radiant energy" tech and I believe that is correct. There really is no such
thing as radiant energy, but what he was using was not directly radiant energy but high voltage pulsing with static electricity.
He wanted to take advantage of what works and what did not change. That is; impedence matching through using
capacitors as DC charge pumps. While it has its drawbacks his currect tech can be used with most any battery technology,
he also combined this with four stage process of battery charging including pulse charging but not with abnormally
high voltage pulses.

His radiant charging only worked with acid/lead battery chemistry and unregulated high voltage pulsing would blow out
capacitors and probably damage supercapacitors as well. Radiant charging knocks bubbles off the plates in water based acid/lead
batteries when opportunistic cosmic events are happening in a way that battery charging power is highly decoupled from the power
of the static electric pulse used to trigger the bubbles release. Other problems with this include important charge process termination
after subjecting the battery to high voltage pulses. The long thread by turion on energeticforum.com that is using a "bad" or "sensor"

:S:MarkSCoffman

Guys guys man , you should know so much more abut all this but really you show that you don't .

If it'a ANY pulse at ANY frequency then ... yea you  right .

But the point is the Battery draws energy from the environment , as I explained above ...

Bedini shows in Energy from the Vacuum that :

- full Battery = wheel spins slower  & requires MORE energy from source
-- empty Battery = Wheel is spinning fast BUT 1/3 of energy required from source

+ there is a deflecting Lenz potential though it's not lenzless or 0 lenz .

BUT AS WE SHOULD ALL KNOW being Hero's and such .... Lenzless devices act EXACTLY the same .

-- faster RPM over rated max RPM and the devices draw LESS from Source than when running slower at recomended RPM

AND
-- they also require far less energy from source when Load is connected VS NOT connected .

Don't take my word for it Jean Louis Naudin explains this for Laymen like Myself yet you guys want to argue these thing s? honestly ?

The difference in Pulse tech is that Bedini gets the negative energy directly in the Battery VS Pulse chargers that also create radiant but as a by product that is not absorbed in the system IF NOT accounted for .

The simplest free energy device is described by Bearden 2 capacitors firing at each other with a copper wire with ( I think ) 10 % Iron mix .

This attract energy from environment and keeps caps firing at each other
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 19, 2014, 11:06:49 AM
Farmhand,

I give you a lot of credit.  I would say that when you look at beginning experimenters on the free energy forums that are new to electronics, you have advanced further in your knowledge than perhaps 98% of the rest of the pack.  Some of them never advance beyond a certain point.

I haven't looked at JL Naudin's work in a few years now, but I did a handful of times before that.  From what I saw at that time,  I honestly was not very impressed.  Lots of equipment and semi-professional presentation skills does not make the experimenter.  It's his knowledge and analytical skills that count.

For the whole AC vs. DC debate, it's not as simple as converting AC into DC.  There is no reason you can't work with AC although the measurements become more challenging.  Also, converting AC into DC is a challenge in itself.  If you use a simple diode or FWBR and capacitor, then the current waveform becomes a pulse waveform.  Before the pulse starts conducting, there are parts of the AC waveform that could be contributing to the power output but aren't.  There are a lot of variables and if you have a design goal, then you can figure out the best way to approach it.  I don't know if there is a magic bullet for this because I am not a hard-core electronics design guy.  Just saying "use DC" is not necessarily correct.

Casstete,

You freely admit you are a layperson, yet you are still drawing conclusions that clearly require sufficient knowledge and experience that you don't have to draw those very same conclusions.  What gives?  I wish I could understand why in the realm of free energy and electronics people believe they know what they are talking about when they clearly don't.

With respect to your newbie status, I can tell you that you have bought into the narrative associated with free energy and have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.  You have to use your critical thinking skills and start questioning what you are reading and doing your own research to check for yourself.  It's almost shocking reading your last few postings.  It's like you were just a "normal person" and you started reading this stuff and just gobbled it up and took it all to be literally true.  That's a really dangerous thing.  The most resent example is the QEG.  I read some postings by a woman on Facebook.  She left her family, I believe including young children, to go to Morocco to help out by cooking and doing whatever else she can, but she is not technical.  She left her FAMILY to run off to Morocco.  As I state in another posting, in x number of weeks she will be coming back home empty-handed having accomplished nothing.  It's sad actually.

You know the famous radio broadcast of The War of the Worlds in 1938?  People were in a panic and started to flee.  That's the kind of thing that's happening to you right now, same for the mother who left her kids to go to Morocco, and same for many people on the QEG bandwagon.

If it sounds too good to be true, then use Google and do at least an hour or more of research.  Don't be afraid to do a "negative" search also, like "<subject> fraud" or "<subject> hoax."

MileHigh

Listen and pay attention , I don't claim the Gegene output is what they claim , I appreciate that I lack the understanding to determine if the Gegenes output is what is claimed in usable energy .
But you guys could have built it in the length of this threat YET you rather deny the possibility JUST cause .... why again ?

I base my understanding on Broken Symmetry Nobel Prize , Montagniers DNA teleportation also Nobel Prize .

Then ANYONE .. and I mean I can get you little girl to SEE that Lenzless devices exists , work , and produce overunity .

gap.power.c om is one of them so simple and yet it will be argued . The Toy based on a 1880 Patent will work .

The Stoern .. works . The MEG shown by Jean Louis Naudin  to work .

Have you built lets say 10% of what he did ? The MEG , Bedini , countless HHO devices , Magnetic Lenzless devices which he explains .

BUT YOU GUYS haven't got a clue .

Pointless for me to discuss anything with you guys if you dont understand Lenzless devices and that

Electric Motors don't operate on electricity. They run on magnetism. The magnetism they run on is produced by electricity.

So try school me on something I say not tell me about QEG Which FULL DETAILS ahev been posted now .

So you know when someone post EVERYTHING like the Iranian Keshe also recently did .

Then they set themselves us to be the fools ?

NOO , you are the fools arguing about technology that is OPEN SOURCE NOW and that you could build .

YOU GUYS that you claim to be so good in electronics & understand it YET you can't copy a device ?

Like MEG , QEG , Stoern , ADAMS or The TOY bu overunitybuilder .

Did you build the GARY, Wesley : Magnet Motor  ? Simplest Free Energy Magnet Motor in the world from 1890 ?

If not then you got NOTHING over me or the next Layman that comes along .

By the way , I am very well informed about Biotransmutation , Cold fusion as well as Natures Antigravity like Schauberger & Grebennikov .

So Layman in leectrical engineering ONLY because what you call electricity is a wast product and ALL machines in the world are designed for WAST .

Tom Bearden can eplain that to you in Precursor engineering if you wanna understand what YOU talking about

I argued this with a PHD in Physics who had to defend his Thesis against Fleischman ... Cold fusion .

He laughed me off saying that was all a fraud ... just like you think we all fucking idiots just cause we don't know electrical Bullshit heat up everything engineering ?

AHA AHA HAHAHA

Cold fusion is replicated in countless laboratories today AND YOU would have been one of them claiming

IT'S ALL BS , cause YOU lack critical thinking and get Pimped by corrupt Peer review as did the Cold fusion deniers prior to your repetitive nonsense .

I strongly suspect you are a agent because in all this BLABLA above you din't say anything scientific , factual you just used LOW LEVEL techniques usually use by Agent Provocateur .

Tell tell signs there , keep it scientific or don't bother  . I don't mean to be rude but this is a reality check 4 U .

Don't school me on the ways of the universe , biology or who is a fraud and who isn't .

We have the understanding of Biotransmutation since the ancient Greeks & as one I can read and have , as well a PI Universal geometry and the energy source . Read Platos Republic .

Sorry to be harsh but the lot of you are laughable cause you don't even know the mechanics of Biology .

You think free energy doesn't exists when the food you eat accounts for 5 % if not less and thats a scientific fact .

Never mind you must be generating energy from the where the sun don't shine
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 19, 2014, 11:10:27 AM
O ya and Tom Bearden just sent me a Email , they sold the MEG to a investor for 200 000 000 \$ .

Also built & tested by Jean Louis Naudin successfully .. never mind they all liars n u know better .

They are not able to access the money as it's being held by a UN individual in his account .

He's over 80 nw and just wanted to leave something behind for his kids .

Naturally you believe he is also a liar never mind that many of his different theories have been corroborated over time by esteemed scientists .

Fuck all that cause you 3-4 Heros Members here say it's all BS ( never showing why specifically , just basing it on OTHER scientists peer reviewed Theories )

F*/*** jokers calling themselves critical thinkers . You brainwashed monkeys
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on May 19, 2014, 11:21:10 AM

@MarkSCoffman

you a joke, tell me which devices did you build to disprove them ? How many exactly and do you have proof also not just claim you did something actual videos and such  ,
you haven't the potential to critically think YET you accuse others of not doing so . You probably never managed to build any of them and just here to show how clever you are .... hows that working for you

I know about Biotransmutation , Cold fusion , I even sell a device that reduces 90% CO2 and +15% fuel in most cases by using such a process . Browns Gas generator & a solid state radiant charger by Supermuble i use for HHO .

I suggest you go study a little like on Prof Pappas Website papimi so you actually can back your Hero Member status with some understanding of the word

So what I KNOW FOR SURE ... is you not knowledgeable enough to discuss the subject of Free energy in general .

As a Hero Member you lack of understanding of the Universal Source of energy is shocking
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on May 19, 2014, 12:34:51 PM
Casstete you are talking, with your insults and gullible ignorance,  to the real makers and builders on this forum. You cannot provide any evidence OF YOUR OWN for the validity of your claims. You cannot provide any demonstrations or experiments OF YOUR OWN to support the ridiculous things you are saying.

200,000,000 dollars to Bedini for the MEG. You are laughable and your posts are nonsensical. Grow up and do some real work of your own, before you insult the builders and knowledgeable experimenters on this forum. You have ZERO credibility here.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MileHigh on May 20, 2014, 01:43:05 AM
Casstete,

Life is a puzzle sometimes, isn't it?  Sometimes it's enough to crack your noggin.

It's like you consume the worst kind of 'tabloid tech trash' at the supermarket checkout line.  "Baby born with three heads and Tom Bearden makes \$200M sale."

If Tom Bearden really did send you that email, then the old carny is still up to his tricks.  Who knows, there may be a "donate" button on a Bearden web site and he uses the money to pay his electrical bill.

You should seriously take my advice.  If you go through life with your current attitude, somebody may one day swindle you out of all of your money.

MileHigh
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on July 20, 2014, 10:14:17 AM
I have the Bedini Teslacharger 5 here , did i get swindled ?

I have used the Lakhovsky & Papimi for treatments well proven by many different doctors & scientists .

Have I been swindled ?

The Teslacharger brought back  2 considered useless batteries given to me by my Bike Mechanics .

I have friends here like supermuble who have built JCells made with Aluminium as well as Adams motors .

I sell a device based on Ranque Hilsch effect that reduces fuel by 15-25 % .

OOO and it was tested by Gas de France/SUEZ who confirmed it .

So tell me man , what the f**** do you people think you know ?

I told you before I studies Biotransmutation & Cold fusion .... overunity is no mystery to me .

A Mystery to me is how people like yourself with more hands on experience & capability than myself .... can't do what for example supermuble did with J Cell or JLN Naudin showed with 3-4 devices that show overunity .

So what ?

You telling me if you build a proper Adams or Stoern , www.gap-power.com or the basis of that device a 1890 Magnetmotor by Gary's http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm you can't get mechanical overunity ?

You telling me Bedini showing his wheel spin faster at full moon is a Liar .

Please if it's going down like that I want you to call ALL the inventors here www.rexresearch.com liars .

Also Louis Rota which you never heard of that flew his antiG device from Marseille to Paris with 1000's watching including journalists in when ???

1915 . So man get your finger out and do something , the knowledge is there I lack the change & some know how YET I will manage b4 you lot . Shame .

And this forum is littered with Agents & wanna B Pro's

Proof is if you check supermubles threads and read what he said about devices HE made .. and how you lot bashed him .

He built a successful J Cell ... Question can you ?

Did you ever and do you understand the requirements ?

This forum is for builders ? Build something then
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on July 20, 2014, 10:28:18 AM
Casstete you are talking, with your insults and gullible ignorance,  to the real makers and builders on this forum. You cannot provide any evidence OF YOUR OWN for the validity of your claims. You cannot provide any demonstrations or experiments OF YOUR OWN to support the ridiculous things you are saying.

200,000,000 dollars to Bedini for the MEG. You are laughable and your posts are nonsensical. Grow up and do some real work of your own, before you insult the builders and knowledgeable experimenters on this forum. You have ZERO credibility here.

Yea it's like I said , you think you smarter than Tom Bearden ! I want to see your experiments cause with the posts you have you must have LOADS to show disproving 100's of overunity devices 1000 even that exist .

You want a bet you the ignorant one post 6000 times and building .... 2 out of 100's

You want to tell me what your mathematical odds of being WRONG are considering www.rexresearch.com existing devices ....

Lets just take the 100 year old ones where you should grasp the concepts by now .

I know Melon farmer smarter than you 120 years ago ... who are you ?

You think you know ANYTHING more than the next man on the subject your kidding yourself .

Explain to us how the body works using a taking  5-6 % from food ... where the 95% needed come from .

OOOO it's a overunity system smart ass , everyone knows it seems you didn't get the message .

Why we copy PC & Hardware as close to the Body as possible ? Alls mysteries to people like you , half ars engineers with limited understanding of anything and expert on everything .

The worst people , educated fools from uneducated schools .

Now Tom Bearden is a honest man , admits to his Bench limitation . Everything I have heard from him has been corroborated by including people like Luc Montagnier .

Can you build a Joe cell like my friend supermuble here in the forums or his radian charger with no moving parts .

He discusses many things me and I told him a few things about water & how structured water was a prerequisite .

So yea you are correct , I have no credibility in this forum cause after 5 years I only joined it now seen as Supermuble warned me it's full of smart arses that never actually built anything but attack everyone with unconventional approach to KNOWN FRAUDULENT ELECTRIC ENGINEERING .

Seems again you didn't get the memo .

Now you compared to Bearden ... lol ... you have NOTHING on him . Even if he sucks by his own admittance .

The insulting here is you because of your first emails .... about how other people don't know what you do .

You a Joke , you don't know much and it shows in your answers to my sometimes very thoughtful    messages .

Have you built the GEGENE or MileHigh ?

Isch don't think so , but you here and happy to destroy it .

So what can I say except for apologies if you did ... & still JLN building 20-30 has more credibility than YOU .

Since this is all nonsense you must have a ready Gegene disproving it correct .

No ? O well then
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on July 20, 2014, 10:41:24 AM
Casstete you are talking, with your insults and gullible ignorance,  to the real makers and builders on this forum. You cannot provide any evidence OF YOUR OWN for the validity of your claims. You cannot provide any demonstrations or experiments OF YOUR OWN to support the ridiculous things you are saying.

200,000,000 dollars to Bedini for the MEG. You are laughable and your posts are nonsensical. Grow up and do some real work of your own, before you insult the builders and knowledgeable experimenters on this forum. You have ZERO credibility here.

AND you can't even read  + you don't know who built what ?!?

You Joker telling people to grow up when you have reading problems + don't know who built what !

Now here is the Email from Tom Bearden the guy who made the MEG TINSEL ! Don't know where you got Bedini from BUT OBVIOUSLY  your faster at Bitching than reading properly !

After the confidential part I will not share because he asked me not to this is the rest of his email :

"Anyway, the MEG is completely frozen and will remain so forever, so it appears -- unless someday the international law is changed.

Weirdest thing I ever heard of, but search out and check that article in the Wall Street Journal for confirmation of the great

international racket called "sweeping the cash."

I'm presently recovering from terrible body damage from months of radiation to kill a terminal tumor in my abdomen, and so it

will be from 8 more months to a year before I can get active again, move around, etc. And I turned 83 years old last December, so

my days are numbered after having my insides eaten out for 33 years by biological warfare mycoplasma sprayed by my own US

folks and Canada in a joint US/CANADA secret program. This modified mycoplasma is called "mycoplasma pneumonae", and there

is a little known specific test for it available from LABCORP by one's doctor. The treatment (50% then live) is a year on antibiotics.

Ah well! If I can do it in a few months from now, I'll write up precisely what a dipole is and does (in modern physics). Every dipole

in the universe already is a free energy system (1) absorbing virtual energy from the seething virtual state vacuum, (2) integrating the

absorbed energy to observable size, and (3) re-emitting it as a steady stream of photons which is mistakenly called "static" voltage.

The emitted voltage isn't "static" at all, but it is STEADY!

Tesla powered that Pierce Arrow car off the "static" (steady) voltage of the battery, without any physical connection

to the battery. Like placing windmill in a stream of wind -- don't try to block the source of the free "energy wind", but just let it

sit in its  ongoing passing stream, diverge and catch a bit of it to power your external loads and losses, and that's it.

Hope things go well with you and please hang in there!

Tom B. "

THAT is a honest man who may have made mistakes here and there but that HAS to be expected when you confront every know science in the universe AS DID HE !

Ok so go ahead tell me I got no credibility .

This is not ME ... this is the worlds greatest scientists against people who claim it's all BS ..... You

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/020209.htm

Please feel free to passive aggressive insult me like you did initially you ignorant small minded joker
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: casstete on July 20, 2014, 10:52:33 AM
@farmhand

You are saying that Bedini has moved away from "radiant energy" tech and I believe that is correct. There really is no such
thing as radiant energy, but what he was using was not directly radiant energy but high voltage pulsing with static electricity.
He wanted to take advantage of what works and what did not change. That is; impedence matching through using
capacitors as DC charge pumps. While it has its drawbacks his currect tech can be used with most any battery technology,
he also combined this with four stage process of battery charging including pulse charging but not with abnormally
high voltage pulses.

His radiant charging only worked with acid/lead battery chemistry and unregulated high voltage pulsing would blow out
capacitors and probably damage supercapacitors as well. Radiant charging knocks bubbles off the plates in water based acid/lead
batteries when opportunistic cosmic events are happening in a way that battery charging power is highly decoupled from the power
of the static electric pulse used to trigger the bubbles release. Other problems with this include important charge process termination
after subjecting the battery to high voltage pulses. The long thread by turion on energeticforum.com that is using a "bad" or "sensor"

:S:MarkSCoffman

Ok I agree with you but it's the unseen input from the environment absorbed into the battery, this is also always what Bedini claimed  & you have to try to accept that RPM's on Bedini devices accelerate so seemingly resistance is reduced with greater gravity or whatever the reason may be .

You want to help a layman like myself test the Teslacharger 5 with new  charging technology by bedini , suggest something I'll be glad to test it .

I was running a 9 Watt 0.15 amp device on a 10 Watt Mono Panel ... and Battery was charging .

I don't know what one would expect from conventional chargers so your help would be appreciated in calculating efficiency ... if you bothered .

I am not a fan of the Lindeman & Aaron crew though they have good infomation I don't like their clickbank methods .... but what can I say

I can either try build one ... will take me time and I would never expect to build it as someone playing with it for 20+ years .

So I bought the 3 Amp charger for testing . I got 2 corroded batteries back to hold 12.7 V ... i need 2 put a load and test if it holds the energy but it seems it does .

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tinman on July 20, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
Yea it's like I said , you think you smarter than Tom Bearden ! I want to see your experiments cause with the posts you have you must have LOADS to show disproving 100's of overunity devices 1000 even that exist .

You want a bet you the ignorant one post 6000 times and building .... 2 out of 100's

You want to tell me what your mathematical odds of being WRONG are considering www.rexresearch.com existing devices ....

Lets just take the 100 year old ones where you should grasp the concepts by now .

I know Melon farmer smarter than you 120 years ago ... who are you ?

You think you know ANYTHING more than the next man on the subject your kidding yourself .

Explain to us how the body works using a taking  5-6 % from food ... where the 95% needed come from .

OOOO it's a overunity system smart ass , everyone knows it seems you didn't get the message .

Why we copy PC & Hardware as close to the Body as possible ? Alls mysteries to people like you , half ars engineers with limited understanding of anything and expert on everything .

The worst people , educated fools from uneducated schools .

Now Tom Bearden is a honest man , admits to his Bench limitation . Everything I have heard from him has been corroborated by including people like Luc Montagnier .

Can you build a Joe cell like my friend supermuble here in the forums or his radian charger with no moving parts .

He discusses many things me and I told him a few things about water & how structured water was a prerequisite .

So yea you are correct , I have no credibility in this forum cause after 5 years I only joined it now seen as Supermuble warned me it's full of smart arses that never actually built anything but attack everyone with unconventional approach to KNOWN FRAUDULENT ELECTRIC ENGINEERING .

Seems again you didn't get the memo .

Now you compared to Bearden ... lol ... you have NOTHING on him . Even if he sucks by his own admittance .

The insulting here is you because of your first emails .... about how other people don't know what you do .

You a Joke , you don't know much and it shows in your answers to my sometimes very thoughtful    messages .

Have you built the GEGENE or MileHigh ?

Isch don't think so , but you here and happy to destroy it .

So what can I say except for apologies if you did ... & still JLN building 20-30 has more credibility than YOU .

Since this is all nonsense you must have a ready Gegene disproving it correct .

No ? O well then

I have built the Gengene,and sorry to say-no cigar there. that was nothing more than JLN making measurement error's-already been prooven to be the case.

Quote: Can you build a Joe cell like my friend supermuble here in the forums or his radian charger with no moving parts . ???

you mean a solid state flyback charger/desulphator? I dont get the hype???

I have also built many versions of the MEG,and none worked as Tom said.
The MEG dosnt work,and has not been blacked shelved-they dont black shelf stuff that dosnt work.

Quote: Now you compared to Bearden ... lol ... you have NOTHING on him . Even if he sucks by his own admittance .

Sooo wrong.Tom would be lost with most stuff TK and MH do and have done-sorry,but thats the truth. Every single so called OU device TK has looked into and replicated,was prooven to be under unity. Infact ,TK hasnt missed one yet-He has always been correct-and that's a fact.

Bendini,Arron,Linderman-all full of crap,and only out to make money by way of deception.Example-electric motor secret's ::) Biggest load of rubbish ever sold-and the list go's on.

You could of course post a schematic of an OU device,or a video(clear video)with accurate measurements taken to show OU. But that will never happen-and thats a fact.There is no magic radiant energy coming into the bedini pulse system's-and thats a fact aswell.

Why dose the rotor turn faster on a bedini motor during a full moon -LMAO-maybe the werewolfs are giving it some extra spin.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on July 20, 2014, 03:59:48 PM
.
200,000,000 dollars to Bedini for the MEG. You are laughable and your posts are nonsensical.

.
You have to be cautious about contract numbers; this reminds me of those post punk darlings of the 1980s, Sigue Sigue Sputnik.

It was reported that they signed a \$6 deal with EMI. When looking at the text, we see reported something amounting to a fee per show, per record sold, per appearance, in various continents, and ending up with an expectation of numbers such that if these figures are achieved, they will be paid \$6m.

i.e. Here is the price list - when you have earned \$6m, you get \$6m.

On that basis, a \$200m deal with John Bedini is quite reasonable, if and only if JB does a digital extraction well before a principal patent of his runs out in seven years time.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MarkE on July 20, 2014, 05:08:59 PM
The MEG is Bearden's worthless contraption.  It is in essence a transformer with lots of leakage inductance.  ETI set-out to test it thoroughly years ago.  Their impartial but unflattering report is available on their web site.  No one is going to pay any money for that useless device.

MEG true believer Graham Gunderson came up with his own useless variations on the MEG.  Mark Goldes' old company:  Magnetic Power Inc. used one of those as the basis of an equally useless patent: 7,830,065 which is a transformer with lots of leakage inductance, plus some permanent magnets to bias it and a resonant tank circuit.  That patent is assigned to the Mark Goldes / Hagen Ruff founded company Chava LLC.  Hagen Ruff has a different company now:  Chava Energy that disavows any connection to Mark Goldes.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2014, 10:02:10 PM
Quote
Can you build a Joe cell like my friend supermuble here in the forums or his radian charger with no moving parts . (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif)

I probably shouldn't post this here ... because when I show these kinds of things (which are the same kinds of things that FE claimants show as evidence for their claims) people tell me that there isn't anything special happening. (and they are right) But why don't they apply the same critical thinking to Bedini and Bearden et al? Casstete will bust another brainfuse and give us all a lot of laughs.

I think I should change my name to "Beerdonie" and put my stuff in black boxes and provide blurry offcenter scopeshots without information and light up a bank of light bulbs. Then maybe people will start sending ME money for nothing too.

This modern generation. They are so used to LEDs that they do not appreciate what a NE-2 can tell them, or what kinds of voltages and electric fields they can indicate.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on July 22, 2014, 02:25:19 AM
Thanks and you make  very interresting point , I wonder if you ever watched Prof.Bass  "Rediscovery of Lost Secret of Moray Radiant Energy .
Systtem "

He claims that it is all Schumann resonance that powered Morays's 20 KW device . Funny thing is that Nobel Prize holder Montagnier shown in his DNA Teleportation ( f#@\$ incredible ) that indeed life is brought back by 7.83 HZ .... wherever it once existed ( the water retains the DNA  information & starts recreating from beginning the original DNA )

So the experiment goes like this , 2 glasses of water with DNA , filter it out completely from one of the 2 glasses . Play 7.83HZ and after 16 hours DNA is starting to be recreated ( proteins ... and so on )

We also know that humans , plants or animals when deprived of 7.83 HZ in bunkers they built in germany for that purpose .... people get Ill , tiered , worn out & very sick after a week +- . Depressed , anxious , aggressive ... Naturally because you are removing the LIFE frequency .

Gravity is only one ingredient , Nature works in Symbiosis as does for instance Biotransmutation or cold fusion ( Alchemy) .

We dealing with many wave forms , Magnetic , Schumann , gravity,light ,sound  ... "time" all these waves interact (resonate with something)and release energy.

I lack the electrical engineering .. so I had to approach it looking at nature like Schauberger & Grebennikov .

If I had HALF the knowledge of electrical engineering people have in these forums I would have built them by now favoring Magnetic as a Magnet is a "generator" by default where then you just need to extract it ( this is what correctly was pointed out by the previous comment )

Look i just ordered the Solartracker V 5 new system by Bedini NOT USING RADIANT as per Lindemann ... I am not happy about it because Bedini spent 20 years telling us about radiant energy and now he flipped on it ? We will wait see what he says .

Radiant was NOT the power ... the power came from what happened in the Battery when it was charged with radiant ( not JUST Pulse charging) ... you can see it in a video i posted (shit spelling ... "Raidiant /Etheric /Orgone - John Benini.)

His wheel spins faster at full moon .. !

Then we now have Keshe from Iran who released 4 GB .. all his files for his device cause they were pressuring him

You have the QEG that now plans have been released

You have Tom Bearden who wrote me that they had been payed some 200 000 000 Mil. for the MEG and that it was held back by UN .... they are not given access to the money !  BUT Jean Louis Naudin built it SUCCESSFULLY .

So most people here should be able to build it ... .

SO MANY DISINFORMATION agents out there ... and if one speaks about how a device DOESN'T work without being able to disprove it .

They are MORE useless than inventors with fake devices !

Thanks 4 sharing and sorry for extensive post  :P

Why can't anyone replicate these OU experiments then?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: avalon on July 22, 2014, 06:52:36 PM
Why can't anyone replicate these OU experiments then?

Simply because there is NO OU there. Let me explain...

I have also been interested in this experiment and so, naturally, built a replication circuit. I will tell you the results in a minute.
To make sure that I am objective and there is no outside influence of any kind I even signed up my son and some other local school boys to do a science fair project based on GEGENE. Some picture are attached.

In both cases the end result was the same. The circuit efficiency was never overunity. At best it was close to 94%.
Why then others claim overunity here? Simply because they made some errors in their input/output consumption calculations.
The test circuit included a 1300w induction plate, Tectronix THS710A scope/meter, 3 * 250W load lamps, SunPower 500W online inverter, 35A rectifier bridge / 15000uF/200V capacitor plus a Kill-A-Watt plug-in meter. In addition a Fluke meter was used to double check the results.

The experiments covered every possible scenario with different combinations of flat pancake/bifiler coils, various combinations of number of turns and induction power levels. The efficiency has never even reached 100%.

While it was interesting/educational to complete the project the end result is undeniable: no OU.

~A
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: avalon on July 22, 2014, 06:54:22 PM
Two coils (load and feedback) were used.
The feedback coil fed the online inverter through a rectifier bridge+capacitor combination. The resulted AC power was returned to the AC input. The entire consumption was monitored through a Kill-A-Watt meter (plus double checked with Tectronix/Fluke combination).
Some different combinations were used, i.e. load coil was alternated between a bifiler or a standard pancake coil. The same was done for the feedback.
The experiments also included multiple load/feedback coils (up to 3).
~A
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2014, 12:47:43 AM
Ok I agree with you but it's the unseen input from the environment absorbed into the battery, this is also always what Bedini claimed  & you have to try to accept that RPM's on Bedini devices accelerate so seemingly resistance is reduced with greater gravity or whatever the reason may be .

You want to help a layman like myself test the Teslacharger 5 with new  charging technology by bedini , suggest something I'll be glad to test it .

I was running a 9 Watt 0.15 amp device on a 10 Watt Mono Panel ... and Battery was charging .

I don't know what one would expect from conventional chargers so your help would be appreciated in calculating efficiency ... if you bothered .

I am not a fan of the Lindeman & Aaron crew though they have good infomation I don't like their clickbank methods .... but what can I say

I can either try build one ... will take me time and I would never expect to build it as someone playing with it for 20+ years .

So I bought the 3 Amp charger for testing . I got 2 corroded batteries back to hold 12.7 V ... i need 2 put a load and test if it holds the energy but it seems it does .

Hello everyone I was amused by the heat of the comments .. :)
As already said here it seems that here, so only a few people speak truth .. and own the absolute truth!
The only other people speak without knowledge of the facts it seems ...

People like me! At least that seems to be shared by some opinion ... It seems that there is a dispute over who knows more about that subject ... and on and on .. always equal.
Respect the ideas of others; the effort of their experiences.
Jean-Louis Naudin is a completely impartial person and continues to develop a great job.

I want to share this video. Demonstrates an efficient way of using low-power solar panels to charge battery banks with a small amount of energy such as bedini circuit.

Something as simple to build with garbage ...
People replicate the circuits that the other said because the other wanted it that way ... I agree with casstete.
MISINFORMATION
Those who still bother to replicate one of these projects to verify if it fails quit the first and say:
It is FAKE
but yes I know I'm not so credible, may not have say in the matter; there is already too smart people on this forum.
Do not want to overlook anyone directly, but this is how some members of this forum makes me feel.
Sorry for the rant :'(
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mscoffman on July 23, 2014, 06:38:02 PM
Simply because there is NO OU there. Let me explain...

I have also been interested in this experiment and so, naturally, built a replication circuit. I will tell you the results in a minute.
To make sure that I am objective and there is no outside influence of any kind I even signed up my son and some other local school boys to do a science fair project based on GEGENE. Some picture are attached.

In both cases the end result was the same. The circuit efficiency was never overunity. At best it was close to 94%.
Why then others claim overunity here? Simply because they made some errors in their input/output consumption calculations.
The test circuit included a 1300w induction plate, Tectronix THS710A scope/meter, 3 * 250W load lamps, SunPower 500W online inverter, 35A rectifier bridge / 15000uF/200V capacitor plus a Kill-A-Watt plug-in meter. In addition a Fluke meter was used to double check the results.

The experiments covered every possible scenario with different combinations of flat pancake/bifiler coils, various combinations of number of turns and induction power levels. The efficiency has never even reached 100%.

While it was interesting/educational to complete the project the end result is undeniable: no OU.

~A

Hi Avalon,

Your setup is very nearly perfect except for a couple of things that almost
certainly would boost the units efficiency by the few percent required. Certainly I think you
could squeeze slightly above OU efficiency out of this set-up. Show those
kids that dad has a few tricks up his sleeve.

1] Your instrumentation power should not flow through the kilawatt power meter.
- unless it performs a controller function. A flying ground wire might be justified though.

2] Did you use a HF Fast Full Wave Bridge Rectifier? I would prefer to build the bridge
rectifiers out of  these individual diodes. You really can use two bridges for a total of eight
diodes. Diodes will potentially create a PF power factor so you should scope the voltage
and current signals to see how lossy they are.

I like rectifier:
IRF OM5226-SA and -RA Dual Diodes    with only 1 each (2) required for each bridge.
12amps each 600Volt 50ns  so  @200VDC 12 amps   =  2.2KW @ 20Mhz :-)  300VAC pk-pk max.

3] Rather then mixing antenna signals. you should use a bridge rectifier for each then
then sum the DC power signals. You really can't mix AC signals without affecting both
antennas. That mix could be a good for a power result, but probably will be bad because
of interaction.

4] I guess you have tried wiring the antenna via the tesla radiant schematic? I keep
wanting to twist two 14Gauge solid copper wires tightly in a hand drill for use as
lead-outs from the antenna. Parallel wire seem would form an improperly matched
impedance transmission line.

5] it may be interesting to try front and back mounting of the coils sandwiching
the drive coil. Maybe use five coils total.

6] One thing I was going to do was to buy two inexpensive 800watt induction
heaters. So that way I could try to use the one spare cook-pot heater's antenna only
as receiver antenna to try for greater efficiency.

7] You really should use a 2KW or higher HV inverter so you don't have to play games
connecting it. Once you get an OU output calculation you could immediately try to
loop it. Efficiency in the inverter is important. Those solar wind grid stand-alone front
end inverters with MPP automatic impedance matching and > 90% efficiency
would be ideal. I would stay away from grid interactive front ends until overunity
result was obtained then they would be interesting again.  I can easily see the added efficiency
going above 100% if all the above where implemented.

8] You can check your inverters efficiency by feeding 120VAC rectified and filtered or 120VAC
Voltage Doubled to 240VAC rectified and filtered into it. Load, then measure the results.
You can use 2 identical  x 1.5KVAR  transformers back to back for 1:1 voltage galvanic ground
isolation if so preferred.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: avalon on July 24, 2014, 11:37:29 PM
:S:MarkSCoffman

1] Kill-a-watt was not used as a through device - only a mains monitor. Ground wires are directly connected through a T-connector.

2] I did use a fast full wave rectifier and a separately built full wave rectifier using ultra-fast Shottky diods. The results were identical.

3] AC feedback signals never were mixed directly. Instead separate full bridge rectifiers + capacitor circuit were used but only for experiments with multiple coils.

4] I only performed experiments with flat/bifiler coils as pictured.

5] Great minds think alike! I did disassembled the induction plate and used coils on both sides of the primary induction coil. Although it resulted in higher voltages the efficiency stayed absolutely the same.

6] I have not tried any experiments with multiple induction plates.

7] My inverter has a 94% efficiency and can take up to 62V DC input voltage. This was the best inverter I could find. Have I tried direct looping? No as it would not be possible in my setup. The online inverter is constantly monitors the input line in order to synchronize its output. Theoretically, I could use a battery pool to feed an off-line inverter and then have an online inverter and a battery charger added to the setup but it would not make a clean experiment. I could see the resulted drop in consumption once the inverter was online but it has never brought the input consumption to zero, let alone OU.

8] I have tested my inverter many times in the past and know its efficiency. I have also tested it with solar panels (a pair of 230W mono panels) and fed it directly from my lab NIST certified DC power supply to check the efficiency. Although the manufacture claimed the efficiency of nearly 96% I could only achieve 94%.

~A
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Madebymonkeys on July 25, 2014, 01:39:50 AM
7] My inverter has a 94% efficiency and can take up to 62V DC input voltage. This was the best inverter I could find. Have I tried direct looping? No as it would not be possible in my setup. The online inverter is constantly monitors the input line in order to synchronize its output. Theoretically, I could use a battery pool to feed an off-line inverter and then have an online inverter and a battery charger added to the setup but it would not make a clean experiment. I could see the resulted drop in consumption once the inverter was online but it has never brought the input consumption to zero, let alone OU.

~A

Firstly, I don't believe there is any mechanism by which the circuit can achieve OU, it's simply a loosely coupled transformer.
That said, your efficiency of 94% is excellent bearing in mind the cable losses, coupling coefficient etc etc - nice work!

Oh, and nice printer ;-)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mscoffman on July 25, 2014, 04:07:25 AM

WOW, Ok, I'm impressed that you tried so much and did such complete experimentation...excellent work!

Well, scratch one overunity method...all those light bulbs really had me going!

If you ever get a chance to try a more powerful inverter between the utility and the
hotplate it would really be interesting. For example run a variac manual controlled
autotransformer between they utility to a rectifier filter then another rectifier filter
to the pickup antenna. Then one would reduce the DC signal from the variac which
would pull more from the antenna. You could also add DC power signals where the variac
supplies only make-up power. The hotplate might produce VARS signals that would disturb
the inverters operation, or the hotplate might attempt to seize VARS from utility and
the inverter would have to conduct more real power to make up for it.
The reason is those induction range tops might be used in countries where you would
want to use electricity as "efficiently" as possible. That hotplate must be nearly 100%
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: DarkLight on December 11, 2014, 09:39:31 AM
Hi Avalon,
You need to connect more loads to have better effect.
For example if you measure the system set at 400 wats input power, your connected load has to be 4000 wats or more (at 220 volts)
Your reciever coil is not wound properly I think. It is like two coils one on another connected in series. Not a Tesla pancake
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tesletic on January 15, 2015, 05:22:21 PM
Still hoping that someone could do this final loop test that Igor setup and proved working !
We tried indiegogo to get the funds for a few inverters but without any success ! I am still convinced it can be a self-runner !?  ;)

http://youtu.be/IpAuvTBCugs?list=UUVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw

http://tesletic.com/
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on January 15, 2015, 06:08:44 PM
Hi Avalon,
You need to connect more loads to have better effect.
For example if you measure the system set at 400 wats input power, your connected load has to be 4000 wats or more (at 220 volts)
Your reciever coil is not wound properly I think. It is like two coils one on another connected in series. Not a Tesla pancake
I am confused. The picture you show IS a pancake coil.
This is how Jean-Louis' coils are wound.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: mscoffman on January 15, 2015, 07:20:13 PM
Still hoping that someone could do this final loop test that Igor setup and proved working !
We tried indiegogo to get the funds for a few inverters but without any success ! I am still convinced it can be a self-runner !?  ;)

http://youtu.be/IpAuvTBCugs?list=UUVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw

http://tesletic.com/

Keep watching this space.

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tesletic on January 19, 2015, 11:17:39 PM
Thanks, well where there's hope...etc btw highly appreciated if anybody can tell me more about this video as it seems to produce +- 150w out of radiant energy !? Igor told me that the guy presenting it is not the maker !
http://youtu.be/4jGXvw7AyKU
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 20, 2015, 04:52:33 AM
Thanks, well where there's hope...etc btw highly appreciated if anybody can tell me more about this video as it seems to produce +- 150w out of radiant energy !? Igor told me that the guy presenting it is not the maker !
http://youtu.be/4jGXvw7AyKU (http://youtu.be/4jGXvw7AyKU)

Here's more, from March 2014:

"Seems to produce" is the key phrase, of course. Notice that when he first turns it on, the voltage and current meters read 9.1 and 11.8. By the end of the short video, the meters are down to 8.9 and 11.7.  Looks like the "radiant energy" is running down pretty fast.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tesletic on January 20, 2015, 10:55:08 AM
Thanks Pal, highly appreciated, will ask IGOR his take on is as he understands perfectly Russian and he is a 100% realistic tester and his works are one of the best out there! Thanks again!  ;) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: TinselKoala on January 20, 2015, 01:35:23 PM
Thanks Pal, highly appreciated, will ask IGOR his take on is as he understands perfectly Russian and he is a 100% realistic tester and his works are one of the best out there! Thanks again!  ;) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw)
You're welcome. You might ask specifically about the huge heatsinks. It's clear that most of the components don't need heatsinking and that in at least one version of the device, the thermal contact with the big heatsink is very sketchy.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tinman on January 20, 2015, 02:36:17 PM
Lol
Has this one fired up again. This experiment cost me \$180.00 for an induction cook top lol-but the wife loves it ;)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tesletic on January 22, 2015, 05:02:08 PM
Lol
Has this one fired up again. This experiment cost me \$180.00 for an induction cook top lol-but the wife loves it ;)
Yes me to, several units till I run out of budged  ;D Anyway we should never stop at a crucial moment like anybody can see in this video from Igor, I eventually made him reevaluate his own setup and he is now working on it again and the only thing missing to do the test is a pure sine converter !  I am still convinced that 2015 will be that we can build in any little workshop an easy parts device to produce a few KW from radiant or whatever you call it!   8)  Thanks again all of you http://youtu.be/IpAuvTBCugs?list=UUVesA155Der2tRd5vpyYdJw

PS. This seems to be going in the right direction...http://overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/975/#.VMEeIy59vYA
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: DarkLight on February 20, 2015, 08:45:25 AM
I am confused. The picture you show IS a pancake coil.
This is how Jean-Louis' coils are wound.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch9/Fig51.gif (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch9/Fig51.gif)

That is Tesla Pancake => one wire next to the other, not on top of it.

This is wrong =>    http://www.overunity.com/13228/1850-watts-free-energy-power-new-gegene-circuit-by-jl-naudin-shows-cop-2-8/dlattach/attach/140453/image// (http://www.overunity.com/13228/1850-watts-free-energy-power-new-gegene-circuit-by-jl-naudin-shows-cop-2-8/dlattach/attach/140453/image//)
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on February 20, 2015, 02:47:39 PM

That is Tesla Pancake => one wire next to the other, not on top of it.

Yes, but because  it  is doubled  up,  is connected  back  to the  front (if you  understand my perverse explanation), it is a bifilar pancake coil, the correct one to  use. You can  stack  several  up with separate loads

A regular pancake coil, one could call  it a monofilar pancake coil, is just the straight spiral,  and was not used by JL-N.

The other  picture  shows a monofilar PC and I agree that  the  cable  should not be arranged on  its  edge. But since it is monofilar, I don't know why there are two  strands - pointless - unless the idea is  to  be able  to  carry more current.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: tesletic on February 20, 2015, 11:09:03 PM
Some examples of double bifilar ! Believe me they give more !  ;D  http://tesletic.view-tronics.com/tests.htm
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on February 21, 2015, 09:48:58 PM

The other  picture  shows a monofilar PC and I agree that  the  cable  should not be arranged on  its  edge. But since it is monofilar, I don't know why there are two  strands - pointless - unless the idea is  to  be able  to  carry more current.
I'm not sure I am 100% on this.

The coil is a pancake and is bifilar but is pointless because, in the Gegene, the two circuits are not going to be used in a clever bifilar fashion, like the Bedini SG. It will just drop the current per wire.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 02, 2015, 03:25:11 PM
Induction hobs for £29; For ideal Gegene research:

Time limited offer. Thursday May 7th 2015 till Sunday. Could be dependent on locality. Check with your nearest Aldi.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: forest on May 02, 2015, 03:55:10 PM
Induction hobs for £29; For ideal Gegene research:

Time limited offer. Thursday May 7th 2015 till Sunday. Could be dependent on locality. Check with your nearest Aldi.

If there is also detailed schematic of this induction hob then would be wonderful!
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 03, 2015, 03:43:08 PM

If there is also detailed schematic of this induction hob then would be wonderful!
I have asked them for the data. They say it is likely that the papers in the box will have the details of where to go for the schematics. I said that this is no good; people need the data before purchase, not after. We shall see.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Enjoykin on May 04, 2015, 02:49:07 AM
Hello buiders !!  :D

Вся информация касательно установки распространяется по аналогии с лицензией GNU GPL.

The transmission of electricity through one wire and how it works!!
In fact it is old good and modern Tesla Technology. Modeern mean beyond the present time

All experiment were conducted using famous Nikola Tesla Bifilar Coil and induction plate (induction hob). Tesla Bifilar Pancake coil shoud be made from Litz wire. As many thin litz wire it is better.
You can made it yourself - twisting many small isolated magnet wires. :)

Reg.
Enjoykin
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MileHigh on May 04, 2015, 02:56:21 AM
Yeah, thanks for saving the world Enjoykin.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Enjoykin on May 04, 2015, 03:17:30 AM
MileHigh don't worry........  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D

Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on May 04, 2015, 02:33:58 PM
I built this exactly as the instructions said to do it.  I tried Bi-filar & non Bi-filar & got
about the same wattage as I put in.  Absolutely NO O-U.

The only thing I got was burned fingers from the overheated coil.  LOL
.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on May 04, 2015, 09:29:38 PM
.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: FatBird on May 05, 2015, 02:19:48 PM
.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 05, 2015, 03:00:01 PM

If there is also detailed schematic of this induction hob then would be wonderful!
I have discovered that the unit is made by Delta, whoever they are. Getting stuff out of Aldi is like pulling teeth. They aren't  used to it. They reckon that the manufacturers details might be in the box but I wouldn't bank on  it. Anyway, it will be sealed in the shop.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 14, 2015, 06:15:12 PM
Induction hobs for £29; For ideal Gegene research:

Time limited offer. Thursday May 7th 2015 till Sunday. Could be dependent on locality. Check with your nearest Aldi.
This offer has expired but today, Thursday May 11th 2015, I found a considerable stock of the same unit, but made by Slivercrest, on sale at Lidl.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on October 14, 2016, 05:15:43 PM
Double induction hobs on offer -
1800watt and 1300watt. £59. Very short tome offer beginning Oct 20th, this Thursday.

https://www.aldi.co.uk/double-induction-hob/p/071829061402600
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on November 15, 2016, 06:04:28 PM
induction hobs back in stock at Lidl.

http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?action=showDetail&id=38922

... but today and tomorrow only.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: lancaIV on November 15, 2016, 07:12:25 PM
NICO ELECTRO
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5130608A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19920714&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5130608A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19920714&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)

and Victor Arestov Technology http://www.arestov.de/index.php/de/kontakt (http://www.arestov.de/index.php/de/kontakt)

Experiments of the applicant have shown that the circuit arrangement is particularly efficient if the electric load is a light source in the form of a light bulb or in the form of a light emitting diode. So could a lamp that could be operated on a 12 volt battery in continuous operation only 25 minutes, 65 minutes, operated in pulsed mode with the same battery. Further, the experiments of the applicant have shown that for the case that an electric motor is used as a load, this can be a further capacitor connected in parallel to further increase efficiency.  Of course, as a load and an electric heating element, for example in the form of a heating coil may be used.

65 min (pulsed mode) divided 25 min( continuous operation) = >2
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: jbignes5 on November 16, 2016, 06:57:29 PM
I built this exactly as the instructions said to do it.  I tried Bi-filar & non Bi-filar & got
about the same wattage as I put in.  Absolutely NO O-U.

The only thing I got was burned fingers from the overheated coil.  LOL
.

This is because you did not make the bifilar coil RIGHT.

Tesla Quote "In order to produce the greatest possible movement of electricity through a region of the earth in accordance with the plan involving use of a single terminal oscillator, as here experimented with, it is desirable to obtain in some way a large capacity on the free terminal. This is connected with difficulty as spheres get to be too large with moderate tensions and when the tensions go into the millions, streamers can not be easily overcome. The streamers involve loss of pressure just as leaks would on a water pipe which is closed at one end. Large capacity is obtainable in a number of ways of which some are:

1) a coil wound for maximum capacity (internal). The turns are so disposed that between the adjacent turns of layers there exists a great difference of potential, as much as the insulation can stand."

So to have a bifilar coil you need the wires in parallel. One coil always being separated by the other. An easier way to see this is this. One coil is solid and the other is dotted. The first pass of energy goes into the center being separated by the second coil which receives the first coils discharge to flow back into the center again and out the second coils end.
You failed to see anything because you didn't provide the additional capacitance needed in the first coil to negate the self inductance of that coil. The capacitance is provided by the two coils woven in such a way that each turn is separated by the other coils turns.
Like in this example in picture below.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: pauldude000 on November 17, 2016, 01:44:33 AM
This is because you did not make the bifilar coil RIGHT.

That is true. One thing I have discovered is that, though there is supposedly a standard for application of definitions, many people use loose personal interpretations of the definition to arrive at conclusions based off of another persons loose terminology. Tesla actually has this information in a patent I remember reading, can't remember the number. The purpose was for negating a coils inductance as you posted by using the coils capacitance. People need to realize that Tesla utilized each aspect of a coil to create whatever he needed within a circuit. A coil can be used as a capacitor, a resistor, an inductor, etc.

It's purpose within a circuit does not have to be for electromagnetic inductance.

If a length of wire is folded over in the middle, then wound into a coil, the flow of electricity in both directions at the same time relative to the initial direction of current flow negates the induction of the total coil, with the two opposing fields canceling each other.

People pick up a component and only think of the principle use for which it was designed. That is a flaw in logic.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: jbignes5 on November 17, 2016, 03:34:25 AM
The post I replied to was from the quoted guy and he showed the coil he used. Flat two conductor speaker wire not in a bifilar method but a split coil one on top of the other. That will not work as a bifilar since the inductance is twice the inductance of the single coil with two in series connection. Then he states it doesn't work. It would have if you took the time to understand the bifilar coil and actually built one.

Now back to the quote of Tesla's:

In order to produce the greatest possible movement of electricity through a region of the earth in accordance with the plan involving use of a single terminal oscillator, as here experimented with, it is desirable to obtain in some way a large capacity on the free terminal. This is connected with difficulty as spheres get to be too large with moderate tensions and when the tensions go into the millions, streamers can not be easily overcome. The streamers involve loss of pressure just as leaks would on a water pipe which is closed at one end.

Here he talks about his experiments with single terminal oscillators and how he got rid of the huge balls needed to run the system. Curious that he uses the bifilar coil in a single wire mode and the increased capacitance in the bifilar coil can be used to replace the ball in that system. Could you wrap an additional coil around the bifilar and harvest the electrical signals off that single wire system as well?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: pauldude000 on November 17, 2016, 11:41:20 AM
No need to be snippy. Bifilar can stand for several DIFFERENT types of coil windings when termination is concerned, of which his was one type and Tesla's is another. That is why I explained the problem in terminology usage.

Person A builds a Tesla type bifilar, yet just says bifilar when describing its construction, and then Person B winds a different type of bifilar because person A should dang well have specified the difference to begin with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil)

The link is a great one for this purpose as it shows pictures several bifilar coil types, including the Tesla type.

By definition ANY two parallel conductor coil is bifilar, and this is independent upon how each coil is terminated.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: pauldude000 on November 17, 2016, 12:00:33 PM
Now, to harvest high potential electricity and convert it to a more manageable form is a question I think I may have solved. How many have heard of another high frequency coil designed for the purpose of reducing high voltage to a much lower voltage?

It is called a D'Arsonval coil, and I think a system built around one (or more than one if necessary) might even be usable if designed properly to even convert static discharges into a usable form. The D'Arsonval coil is a step-down type auto transformer originally designed for quack electrotherapy in the early 1900's.

It helps being conversant with the various coils and builders of the day, of which Tesla got the ball rolling, so to speak. Most people that claim to build Tesla coils are actually building Oudin coils, as a for instance.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: jbignes5 on November 17, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
I wasn't being snippy. I was being a matter of fact.

The gegene circuit was very clear about the construction of the bifilar coil to the flat wound pancake style.

Most people claim that a tall solenoid coil surrounded by a thick primary is a Tesla coil. It is not. Oliver lodge created that coil and not Tesla. Oliver lodge didn't have the understanding that Tesla did about Teslian systems. In fact Oliver lodge disclaimed a lot of Tesla discoveries because he couldn't replicate it. What Oliver Lodge did replicate was a toy so to speak and it was left that way for many many years because of the lack of understanding and the ability to replicate what was being shown to them.

Why do we need a special coil to step down high voltage? Whats wrong with a regular old transformer to do that?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on April 19, 2017, 04:02:25 PM
Induction hobs back in stock at £29.99 but only for a few days. At Aldi UK.

https://www.aldi.co.uk/ambiano-single-induction-hob/p/076535129038100
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 02, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Induction hobs, back in Lidl, in the UK from this Sunday, May 7th: (only for a few days)

https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=2757
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MenofFather on May 02, 2017, 07:45:36 PM
Hi All
Jean Louis Naudin is back with a replication of some russian induction heater cookplate
Tesla spiral bifilar coil transformer experiments
where it seems the output power is muchh bigger than the input power.

Here is his website about it:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/indexen.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/indexen.htm)

Here are the 2 referenced videos by the Russian experimentors:

http://youtu.be/6rzUnQ4v9z8 (http://youtu.be/6rzUnQ4v9z8)

http://youtu.be/yT16-togIhw (http://youtu.be/yT16-togIhw)

Now the question is what kind of waveform does one get at the output of such
a flat Tesla spiral coil ?

Especially when the primary input coil in the heater unit is pulsed at high frequency
and the coil that Naudin has built is put into resonance ?

Are the eddy currents going into resonance and extract any heat energy from the environment
with it and convert it to electrical energy so the electrical output energy is higher than the input energy into the cooking plate coil ?

Hopefullythis will not just be any measurement errors again...
But both power meters show 1000 Watts input the one inside the cooker and
the other on the grid line...
Hmm...

Is it really so easy to get 1850 Watts of free electrical power this way ???

What do you think ?

Many thanks.

Regards. Stefan.
In vis video is error in meashurements.
For example take this image http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/images/gegene13gvtg.jpg
From peak to peak is 370 V. So now divide from 2 is 185 V. Now is multiplie 0.7 to give RMs of 24 kiloherc is 129 volts. Now 129 multiplae 0.7 to give  RMS of 50 herc and is 90.65 V
So true RMS is not 131 V, but 91 V. And with curent http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/images/gegene13hcur.jpg is not 14.8 A, but 11 A I calculate. So tru power acording my calculations is 11 x 91=1001 W while input is 1155 W http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene18en.htm
:D
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MenofFather on May 02, 2017, 08:02:24 PM
Here is corect meashurement metod http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene05en.htm
and here he not get overunity.
:D
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 03, 2017, 06:13:16 PM
Here is corect meashurement metod http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene05en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/gegene05en.htm)
and here he not get overunity.
:D
The business of using lightmeters and light bulbs seems very unsatisfactory. Why he doesn't use a resistive load and measure the rise in temperature of a tank of water is beyond me.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MenofFather on May 04, 2017, 04:08:23 PM
The business of using lightmeters and light bulbs seems very unsatisfactory. Why he doesn't use a resistive load and measure the rise in temperature of a tank of water is beyond me.
Why incorect with light meter? If light meter position same, lamps position same. So lighmeter Must show same value on same power. Naudin set seme lightmeter readings with power from variac and meashure consumption power and with induction and meashure poer and from variac is less power consumption, while lightmeter showing same results. So thats wrong?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 08, 2017, 05:02:18 PM
Why incorect with light meter? If light meter position same, lamps position same. So lighmeter Must show same value on same power. Naudin set seme lightmeter readings with power from variac and meashure consumption power and with induction and meashure poer and from variac is less power consumption, while lightmeter showing same results. So thats wrong?
Light meters are very sensitive to distance (inverse square) and angle to the subject. They must be mounted and bolted in position to show any chance of a dependable result.

Their readings depend on whether they are being used in incident light or invercone mode. The former is pretty much to be ruled out.

It is much better to measure the electrical power in the cable or to use  a resistive load plunged into water and measure the temp increase using standard lab techniques.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MenofFather on May 12, 2017, 05:31:25 PM
Light meters are very sensitive to distance (inverse square) and angle to the subject. They must be mounted and bolted in position to show any chance of a dependable result.

Their readings depend on whether they are being used in incident light or invercone mode. The former is pretty much to be ruled out.

It is much better to measure the electrical power in the cable or to use  a resistive load plunged into water and measure the temp increase using standard lab techniques.
Distance is same. Angle is same.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on May 16, 2017, 05:15:20 PM
Distance is same. Angle is same.
Was the meter bolted on to a tripod? Was it using an invercone or straight?
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: MenofFather on May 17, 2017, 02:16:53 PM
Read Naudin site. I See that here is no overunity. And acording calculations and acording light meshurements. I not wery good understand in english, so I your questions not understood.
Title: Re: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8
Post by: Paul-R on April 23, 2018, 05:32:31 PM
In the UK, maybe elswhere, at Lidl.

Single induction hobs back on the shelves at £29.99
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-O...rticleId=12573 (http://www.energeticforum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lidl.co.uk%2Fen%2FNon-Food-Offers.htm%3FarticleId%3D12573)

from this Thursday but only for three days or so.