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Author Topic: Perpetual motion?  (Read 28388 times)

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2013, 11:19:47 PM »
Draw a circle around the buckets and you will see that the CG is lower than the
axle. The mechanism looks great but its the CG that really counts.

Norman

norman6538,
 
please do not pay too close attention to my sketch, it only vaguely resembles the original, which I only had  brief look at many years ago. (1982)
 
regards,
 
Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2013, 11:19:47 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2013, 11:50:22 PM »
Draw a vertical line through the axle, dividing the machine into left and right halves. For the device to turn and keep turning, say clockwise, the right half has got to be heavier than the left half. Or more correctly, the _moment_ has to be greater. How do we find the moments for this simple system where all the forces are due to gravity and act downward? You take the horizontal distance from the centerline to the weight, and multiply this distance by the weight. Assign "positive" distance to the right half weights and "negative" distance to the left half weights. Add up all the individual moments. What is the result? For the wheel to keep turning clockwise the total moment computed this way must be positive, for every position of the wheel around the cycle.
Quote
The Principle of moments is if an object is balanced then the sum of the clockwise moments about a pivot is equal to the sum of the anticlockwise moments about the same pivot.
From the Wiki.

Offline ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2013, 02:12:14 AM »
Gwandau
I have a few more days till My shop is usable.The funny thing about this wheel..
It would NEVER free wheel,[will save countless spindown Fussing hrs] If you get it to move at all ...it should Cycle ?
 
Well that and your friend saying it worked !
 
Funny you mentioned Toy.....
One of the things I'll be doing in my new shop is building Specialty furniture
Which I design for children with special needs to enhance their Quality of life.
 
A Toy.puzzle like this For a child with aspergers syndrome or Autism would probably lead to a breakthru in a working Gravity wheel.
 
I have been totally amazed by some of these boys and their grasp of  Math and the "physical" world around them.
 
We shall see.
@TinselKoala
Glad you looked in...I know you have "spun" more than your fare share!
 
Thx
Chet
 

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2013, 02:12:14 AM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2013, 04:15:48 PM »
Gwandau, you are not too far from Burt Rutan's model.  You may want to revisit it.

Rutan's is not very far from Bessler's, for that matter.  Aside from liquid weights, and hydraulic weight shifting, the differences are rather minimal.


Blessings, guys.




TS





Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2013, 11:20:42 PM »
Draw a vertical line through the axle, dividing the machine into left and right halves. For the device to turn and keep turning, say clockwise, the right half has got to be heavier than the left half. Or more correctly, the _moment_ has to be greater. How do we find the moments for this simple system where all the forces are due to gravity and act downward? You take the horizontal distance from the centerline to the weight, and multiply this distance by the weight. Assign "positive" distance to the right half weights and "negative" distance to the left half weights. Add up all the individual moments. What is the result? For the wheel to keep turning clockwise the total moment computed this way must be positive, for every position of the wheel around the cycle. From the Wiki.

TK,
 
Thanks for the suggestion, but why not just draw a vertical line through the axle with equal placement of weights on each side if the line and then simply compare the sum of distances from center of wheel on each side?
 
If the right side has a higher value, the wheel inevitably will turn clockwise.
 
In this simple setup you can actually observe the differential with your own eyes just by observing the origo created by imagining a circle through the center of weights.

If the origo is to the right of the physical center of wheel, it will turn clockwise.
 
Easy does it. ;)
 
Regards,
 
Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2013, 11:20:42 PM »
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Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2013, 12:19:18 AM »
Gwandau
I have a few more days till My shop is usable.The funny thing about this wheel..
It would NEVER free wheel,[will save countless spindown Fussing hrs] If you get it to move at all ...it should Cycle ?
 
Well that and your friend saying it worked !
 
Funny you mentioned Toy.....
One of the things I'll be doing in my new shop is building Specialty furniture
Which I design for children with special needs to enhance their Quality of life.
 
A Toy.puzzle like this For a child with aspergers syndrome or Autism would probably lead to a breakthru in a working Gravity wheel.
 
I have been totally amazed by some of these boys and their grasp of  Math and the "physical" world around them.
 

Chet,
 
I just have to deviate a bit from the topic when you expressed your passionate devotion to help these kids.
 
I had a period in my life when I worked with both Asbergers and the total opposite, the ADHD, and even on one occasion I was engaged in helping a young boy with extreme CD to learn the magic of empathy. He was a unique very hard diagnosed pre-psychopatic young boy who made all the psychiatrists nervous when asked to perform a diagnosis since he really did not fit into any of the frames.
 
I came to understand that all these labels put on the kids were nothing but an attempt to categorize a field of behavioural differences actually quite far beyond our full ability to grasp. As a matter of fact I derived an insight in the matter that I tried to present to the psychiatrists and psychologists who referred my theory to something suggested in the sixties, but which never seemed to become thoroughly investigated at that time.
 
I found a correlation between each deviation of behaviour with a certain age before seven. It was like the kid somehow was interrupted in its normal pace of conceptual growth, making next step in it's developement erronous due to lack of needed input gained in the childs earlier phase of conceptual growth. You know, all kids at a certain age are totally lacking empathy, it is just not ready for that step, and if the surrounding in combination with its own inherited unability to evolve is below a critical level, the child won't be able to take next step in its mental growth.
 
It all fits together, and I really don't understand that this hasn't been more studied in depth. Behavioural science know that if an infant does not get any light the first weeks after birth, it stays blind for the rest of it's life. The "window" of input is only open a very limited period of time, and I am convinced this applies to all the other phases in the mental growth of a child. Adding to this is the frequent situation of the parents being deficient in giving the kids proper input, since many times they themselves has some similar issues, even if only minor.
 
As you suggest, a child with Asbergers syndrome is the perfect explorer in areas where the amount of alternative parameters gets overwhelming for us "normal" persons. But I think the combination of a supervising guy with a little more creative mindset would be needed in helping an Asberger to decide in which direction to take.
 
I highly regard your devotion to these kids and even if it may be quite taxing at times, it is a rewarding occupation in the long run. Especially kids with Asbergers syndrome have abilities that could be highly beneficial to society if stimulated correctly.
 
You have a big heart Chet, that is very obvious.
 
Best,
 
Gwandau
 

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 12:25:54 AM »
Gwandau, you are not too far from Burt Rutan's model.  You may want to revisit it.

Rutan's is not very far from Bessler's, for that matter.  Aside from liquid weights, and hydraulic weight shifting, the differences are rather minimal.


Thanks, TechStuf, I will check that out.
 
Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 12:25:54 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2013, 04:38:45 AM »
Gwandau
Things can happen around us that change the course of our lives,I just try to pay attention and do the right thing.
 
This Most Recent Switch in my lifes work has come after some very ruff and trying times , I spent the last year or more helping a friend Run a private hospital for addicts...Very hard on the mind and ruff on my wife [away for weeks at a time ].I came right up against that wall of exhaustion ,completely wooped.

Well I had very good results with My Special needs Furniture several years back but My heart was not in it ,for very selfish reasons [Extremely depressing  work for me] However after spending this time at the Hospital I received a whole new perspective .
I am not sure I will be able to stay away from helping at the hospital
However My wife thinks its a good idea to work at home for now [a very good idea].
 
An awful lot of what you said about aspergers is Oh so true....

 
Thx
Chet
Ps
And Thx To TechStuff also
 
 

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2013, 12:45:29 AM »
Gwandau
Things can happen around us that change the course of our lives,I just try to pay attention and do the right thing.
 
This Most Recent Switch in my lifes work has come after some very ruff and trying times , I spent the last year or more helping a friend Run a private hospital for addicts...Very hard on the mind and ruff on my wife [away for weeks at a time ].I came right up against that wall of exhaustion ,completely wooped.

Well I had very good results with My Special needs Furniture several years back but My heart was not in it ,for very selfish reasons [Extremely depressing  work for me] However after spending this time at the Hospital I received a whole new perspective .
I am not sure I will be able to stay away from helping at the hospital
However My wife thinks its a good idea to work at home for now [a very good idea].
 
An awful lot of what you said about aspergers is Oh so true....

 
Thx
Chet
Ps
And Thx To TechStuff also

Yes my friend, you have to be very observant regarding your own energy level when getting involved in the lives of addicts and others who have taken too many wrong turns in the forks of life. They can't help it, but they sooner or later get to you, and you start loosing energy.
 
Most of us are quite unaware of the leakage of energy we are suffering when dealing with unfortunate souls, and below a certain energy level, one becomes depressed. My wife is a therapist schooled in the american indian shamanic tradition, and as a person being very aware of this, she is practicing daily regenerating exercises in order to stay well and blissful in spite of the energy devouring environment of her occupation. She also takes long vacations each year on a tropic beach. 
 
I think it is very important for all  those of you who are engaged in the lives of the unfortunate ones to keep yourself revitalized by frequent retreats in the form of relaxing and joyful experiences. Otherwise the energy decrease will lead you into a downward spiral that may be quite fatal. To give to others you have to give to yourself, it's simple math. So take care and spoil yourself ones in awhile.
 
Regarding the wheel, as soon as I have constructed the main fastenings on the wheel and balanced it, I will post an image of it here to give you an idea of my solution to optimal variation ability. Many parameters may have to be altered during the process, from the very shape of the hooks to the construction of the boats in order to fully evaluate the claim made by my friend. I soo wish he was here today to give us the details.
 
He was a very inventive man who made his own tall smokestack and high temperature furnace system , enabling him to convert almost anything to heat. And I remember his electrical backup system driven by a big diesel engine which was connected to the heating element water system and thus always was warm and ready for instant startup.
 
During winter when the snow storms caused frequent power cuts in the area where he lived, his battery driven relays instantly swithced and started the big diesel engine, making the lights in his home only flicker a moment before everything was normal again.
 
And he let me use his big garage for me to renovate my double decker without ever asking anything in return. He was a man with a big heart and a free mind, always experimenting with something new. He would have loved being here now, engaged in the free energy movement these days of big changes.
 
Gwandau
 
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2013, 12:45:29 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2013, 04:32:10 AM »
Gwandau
Thank you for the insight,I would like a nice Sandy Beach [for at least 20 minutes!:,}
 
RE the Wheel
Sometimes a call to an old Friends family is quite rewarding.Perhaps he had some photos of this Wheel laying around ?
 
On another note..
Whatcha mean "double decker"....{not a bus??]
 
Chet
 
 
 
 

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2013, 11:53:00 PM »

RE the Wheel
Sometimes a call to an old Friends family is quite rewarding.Perhaps he had some photos of this Wheel laying around ?
 

Chet,
He never documented this experiment of his, and I am not sure any of his family members even knew about it, you see, he was always experimenting with all kinds of ideas when not engaged in his business, and I got the impression his family had a warm hearted patience with him but never really shared his passion.
 
One of his sons now lives there using the place for his tire business,  and it is quite possible the attic above the main garage where he kept his old wheel is still left untouched. I will check that out next time I'm in that part of Sweden.

 
Quote
On another note..
Whatcha mean "double decker"....{not a bus??]
 
Chet

Well, not a British double decker if that was what you thought, it is an old Volvo bus with another half  shortened and welded on top of it. It's actually a triple decker if you count the tiled sitting area on the roof. I built the bus at a time when I was dedicated into living in a rolling home.
 
But as you know, by getting older we all tend to get a bit more interested in comfort, and the bus is today merely a place for summer guests to stay. But it still starts at first try and the chassis and brakes are all fine. It has a small living room with a fire stove in the lower back end and a small bathroom complete with a bathtub just behind the driver cabin, and on the second floor the bedroom lies right below a wide roof hatch making it possible to sleep in the open.
 
Below is a picture of the bus taken in the midst of the Swedish winter.

Gwandau
 
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2013, 11:53:00 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2013, 03:29:26 PM »
Gwandau
Don't know why I only see a blank box for your Pic?
Probably this Junky Computor I use when I'm home. Seeing as how I'll actually be spending some time at home now ,I will be updating...
 
I Suppose I had that Gypsy Travel Bug Too,   some time I will tell you How I modified a greyhound Bus For business[good excuse] .and used it to do engineering seminars In NYC and surrounding areas.[Had "too" much Fun ]
 
I Have some "resources" in your country?Maybe Closer to the "tire shop".
?
Thx
Chet
 
 
 

Offline ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2013, 09:53:48 PM »
Gwandau
"Handsome little bus"! ,[finally could see that pic].seems in excellent condition!
 
@Techstuff
Do you have any more info on The Burt Rutan wheel?
I see in the links you posted ,you have a lot of "bench time" with Gravity wheels?
Thx For your contributions!
 
Chet

Offline Zeitmaschine

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2013, 07:25:32 PM »
Any thoughts on this?
Yes, see here. 8)

Regards

 

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