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Author Topic: Perpetual motion?  (Read 34689 times)

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 06:04:23 AM »
"Today science stubbornly believes that it actually is the rotational force put into the axis of the generator that is directly proportional to the electricity generated by the generator."

Since science hasn't successfully separated the counter magnetic force during power generation, it ends up being directly proportional, power out to power in, with the difference depending on the efficiency of the device.  However, a generator is not actually a power conversion device in reality; converting power input in to power output.  It has that appearance because of it's design, but it actually is not a power conversion device.

Liberty,
 
Everybody seems to miss my point, whatever I try to say. It must be because of my inability to master the english language, which is not my native one.
 
What I was trying to say was that, as far as I am concerned, electricity is not genereated by exiting existing electrons within the system, electricity is generated by creating an unbalance in the field equilibrium of the vacuum, thus tapping the vacuum of electromagnetic potential. The vacuum is anything but empty and mankind will soon discover the abundance of energy formally seething within the vacuum.
 
Contrary to orthodox science, I am convinced that there is a source dipole being the very origin of generated electricity, therfore the only thing the rotational torque does is enabling the favorable electromagnetic unbalance.
 
Gwandau

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2012, 11:43:34 AM »
Hey everybody,

 
here is some "holiday candy" to ponder if you feel for it.

 
Many years ago an old friend showed me something he told me nobody had seen before. He was earning his livelyhood by rebuilding heavy trucks into breakdown trucks and I had a great confidence in his technical ability and mechanical craftmansship.

 
He is not among us anymore, and I think it is OK to disclose it.  Actually I think he would have loved to disclose it at a forum like this.
 
 
 
This wheel turns as long as there is water in the tank causing the displacement of the weights.

 
According to my friend it turned for several weeks until too much water had evaporated and the displacement of the boats ended.
He also stressed that the water was neccessary, since the boats had to move forward somewhat by their own before getting lifted again by the engaging hook.

 

Would it not be possible to replace the water with a magnetic field creating same effect?
If magnetic repulsion worked, the wheel would theoretically not stop for hundreds of years.

 
Any thoughts on this?

 
Gwandau

 
edit: Maybe I should emphasize that the sketch is no more than a simplified guess made from a somewhat vague memory of the occasion, probably far from correct.
 
.
Looks like it will work, but in the few moments the boat at the top right hand side slides outwards, the boat is loosing potential energy by "falling" freely and will not apply torque to the wheel.


Take one boat, and calculate the average potential energy in one cycle. If you find it greater on one side than the other it would work. But as you for sure understand, potential energy in a gravity field on earth, points strictly vertical. It does not matter how the boats moves in the horizontal plane, such as in a circle (Which is a combination of horizontal and vertical movement) as long ther is not forces in that horizontal plane.


Vidar

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 02:56:29 AM »
Looks like it will work, but in the few moments the boat at the top right hand side slides outwards, the boat is loosing potential energy by "falling" freely and will not apply torque to the wheel.


Take one boat, and calculate the average potential energy in one cycle. If you find it greater on one side than the other it would work. But as you for sure understand, potential energy in a gravity field on earth, points strictly vertical. It does not matter how the boats moves in the horizontal plane, such as in a circle (Which is a combination of horizontal and vertical movement) as long ther is not forces in that horizontal plane.


Vidar

Vidar,
 
if it wasn't for my personal memory of a friend telling me about the experiment performed in his youth, I would have great difficulty to believe such a wheel to actually work. But he just wasn't the type of person that would pull such a prank on a friend for no reason, especially after some lengthy digging in the attic just to show me the remnants of the original wheel. Do you understand my ambivalent situation in this regard?
 
Gwandau

Online ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2013, 03:26:36 AM »
Vidar
Quote
 At 1-2 oclock the boat is loosing potential energy by "falling" freely and will not apply torque to the wheel.
---------------------------------
Sir
Perhaps I misunderstand?
During the "Falling Freely" won't the Energy gained by the fall be manifested as additional Torque once it "connects" back to the wheel?
 
@Gwandau
Will you play with this idea?[A tribute to a friend!]
 
"The tribute"
its catchy.......
And I have a weekness for "gravity"as well as an appreciation of Friendship.
Besides there are other things to throw at this design.....
 
?
Chet
 

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 03:36:34 AM »
All the 'parameters' you allude too may very well provide science with keys to unlocking new sources of energy.

However, all such talk is entirely speculative. One should be aware that scientists, far from being rigid thinkers as you pretend indulge in such speculation all the time. One thing they do have on their side however is a very rigorous and exacting standards for determining whether the hypothesis they develop are supported or rejected by experimental validation. This is something that over-unity tinkerers would do well to emulate before announcing to the world yet another crackpot theory that is not supported by any valid theory or accurate experimentation.

You introduced this thread by showcasing a device that does not employ any 'new' physics and the possibility of it working has been comprehensively disproven. In it's defence all you can offer is vague speculation about that science is somehow inadequate but provide no comprehensive theory or experimentation that provides any indication you are any more competent than the scientists you appear to despise.

Gianna,
 
yes I introduced this thread by showcasing the wheel claimed to have worked by an old friend of mine, but my response to your input did take a wider turn.
 
Regarding the wheel I am myself quite sceptical, but this discussion seem to have accelerated into excluding the very probability of gravity and magnetism as possible parameters in novel areas of new energy discovery.
 
Therefore I felt obliged to emphasize the complete inability for science today to postulate any "does not work"-postulates in regard to electromagnetism and gravity.
That's my standpoint, which has nothing to do with the question if the wheel would work or not. The wheel was just a fun thing that surfaced from my memory.
 
Additionally, you know just as well as I that most scientists today are afraid to touch any area of research that would threaten their grants. Just look at the slow progress of the LENR movement, grants just don't seem to go in that direction. Look at the hot fusion research, who still after 50 years of total failure still get huge grants.
 
And as I have said before, history shows us that all really big paradigm changing discoveries in totally new areas always derive from persons initially unknown to the scientific community, independent researchers still uncluttered by dogmatic thinking.
 
Regards,
 
Gwandau

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 03:43:15 AM »
Vidar
Quote
 At 1-2 oclock the boat is loosing potential energy by "falling" freely and will not apply torque to the wheel.
---------------------------------
Sir
Perhaps I misunderstand?
During the "Falling Freely" won't the Energy gained by the fall be manifested as additional Torque once it "connects" back to the wheel?
 
@Gwandau
Will you play with this idea?[A tribute to a friend!]
 
"The tribute"
its catchy.......
And I have a weekness for "gravity"as well as an appreciation of Friendship.
Besides there are other things to throw at this design.....
 
?
Chet

Chet,
 
of course I will put the wheel to test.

That's the least I can do to pay my respect for a friend that no longer is here to defend his claim.
And, not to forget, it's a quite simple construct, which makes it a fun side project.

 
Happy New Year,
 
Gwandau

Offline norman6538

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 03:48:52 AM »
To make gravity turn a wheel  clockwise the top right quarter has to be kept heavier than the bottom and the floating would help to do that but the real problem for me has always
been easy to unbalance the wheel and get rotation but not easy to reset it for another cycle.

You can check this idea out here

wheel deflection trick
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12341-mikhail-dmitriyev-input-1000-w-output-near-3000-w-13.html

I made a crude model of this and the lifting of the weights does turn the wheel
but the net result must be more force produced than it takes to lift the weights.



Norman

Online ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2013, 03:53:19 AM »
@Gwandau
I'm   In.........[very to simple to play with]
 
I really like the "water switch" at the bottom,Please try to remember any details you can!
 
Thx
Chet

Offline Bumblebee

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 02:47:27 PM »
Hello and Happy New Year everyone  :)

Did your friend make his boats like this ?, I made a model boat years ago that would move forward when I dropped it in water. It trapped air underneath that could only escape at the back.  If dropped from 1ft high it would travel 3ft forward, this was to clear the weed at the edge of the lake.

I am not saying the wheel will work.... just a thought. ;) 

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 12:30:36 AM »
Thanks everyone for your input,
even the sceptics have all been quite well meaning and polite, which is a bit unexpected due to the highly provocative title of this thread.
 
Chet, you actually seem to have sensed the feelings I have in regard to this old memory of mine. It's intriguing, isn't it?
 
And thanks Bumblebee for your suggestion, it will certainly become part of the tests performed in shaping the "boats".
 
I again want to emphasize the unpretentious intent surrounding this little project of mine, there are neither personal claims or any ego invested in this.
I will mount a bicycle wheel in my workshop and weld a simple set of fastenings onto it that will enable a multitude of configurations.
That will allow for gradually closing on the original parameters, which presently fails my memory.

Since I have very little spare time to spend beside my two main projects, the tinkering with the wheel will be used as a way for me to relax from
my more demanding objectives and the wheel will as such probably develop at a rather slow pace.
 
Additionally, and contrary to my main projects, I am not restricted from any disclosure, which will allow me to enjoy posting my results.
 
I'll keep you updated on the progress.

Happy New Year to you all,

Cheers,

Gwandau

Online ramset

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2013, 05:36:24 AM »
Gwandau
I had a silly thought for the boats ,Christmas tree ornaments ,they should be cheap now.....
 
I had some nice Superlight bike wheels laying around before the snow came?
I will play with this Too .......
 
Just as you not a hurried pace just a quiet place to ponder and "play"
I was even wondering about a little "static" attraction [before the water capacitor !:']?
Lots to ponder!
Thx for sharing
 
Chet

Offline Duranza

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2013, 07:27:33 PM »
I think that it would work out better if you have a track of magnets at the bottom ( lets say all with N facing up) and have the weights with a magnet on the bottom (with N facing down). This will repel the weight up and off the hooks. This way you can control the weight position up or down and not have to worry about water evaporation( or getting your hands wet  ;) )

Offline norman6538

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 11:08:43 PM »
Draw a circle around the buckets and you will see that the CG is lower than the
axle. The mechanism looks great but its the CG that really counts.

Norman

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 11:11:27 PM »
Chet,
 
I soo agree, playfulness is the key, and in combination with a perfectly balanced wheel this is the ideal way to explore the hidden relation between gravity and inertia.
 
Additionally the self evident simplicity and low cost characterizing this little project is giving it the perfect touch of ease and childish fun.
 
It's great to have you in on this.
 
Cheers,
 
Gwandau
 

PS. I've really been trying to visualize what I saw the brief moment I watched the old wheel displayed those many years ago, and I seem to recall that the shape of the "hooks" attached to the wheel maybe had a slightly different form than shown in my little sketch.
 
The "hooks" maybe was deviating somewhat from the even arcs shown here, I believe they were actually more straight, at least the two thirds of the end part of the hooks, along the part of the hook where the loop carrying the boats were gliding.
 
I also remember him mentioning something about the shape of the hook in combination with the size of the loops being critical to the effect attained in contact with the water. I recall something like: "The hooks has to be able to move as far as possible through the loops of the boats floating on the water without touching the loops."
 
I think he also said something about the gradual reconnection when the hooks starts to get hold of the boats again. He mentioned something about the part just prior to getting lifted again, where the boats were subjected to a partial drag when still partly in contact with the water. Maybe he stressed the importance of using this friction when leaving the water as the final positioning effect on the hook.
 
As I understand, it is absolutely crucial that the full dispositioning of the boats towards the center of wheel is executed before leaving the water.

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Perpetual motion?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:48 PM »
@Duranza,
 
thanks for the input, and I absolutely agree, as you maybe could read in my initial post, replacing the water with magnetism is my goal,
but as a proffesional product developer since many years I know better than to engage new parameters until the known are functioning.
Water wheel first, then magnetic replacement.
 
Regards,
 
Gwandau