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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Shankopotamus on December 24, 2012, 02:58:08 AM

Title: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Shankopotamus on December 24, 2012, 02:58:08 AM
My research has shown everything from hard to disprove working models of a "Calloway V Gate permanent magnet motor" (search for "Roobert33" on YouTube) to claims from people that this type of machine is impossible.

Based on this research, I was led to "Tesla's Secret" documentation which included plans for a working mag motor to effectively reduce (or even eliminate) my electric bill. I'm excited beyond belief, but weary at the same time...I don't want to venture down a road of guaranteed disappointment.

Any insight is appreciated, however, let me be clear here: The information I'm searching for is specific to the realization of magnetic motors. Although I appreciate the food for thought, I'm not interested in joining the "free energy vs. over unity debate".

Thanks! I'm excited to be a part of this community and look forward to providing any and all insight to strengthen it.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: maw2432 on December 24, 2012, 10:08:30 PM
Hi Shank,
I suggest that you read even more.   Be weary of promises. 
Nothing so far in this forum has been proven to be totally OU from magnet motors from what I have seen, read and tried.    There are however, some very good discussions and cool discoveries, as well as, some real science.  Have fun and keep and open mind. 
I wish your holidays are filled with joy and laughter!
Bill
 
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: happyfunball on December 25, 2012, 02:08:37 AM
It's not a gate. It's a sloped magnetic ramp which accelerates to a dead end. If you want to get past the 'gate,' you'll need to input more force than you can harvest from the wheel in motion. It's basically dropping a rock onto the floor and calling the part where you pick it up a 'gate.' It adds false legitimacy to something which has none. Any video you see of a self sustaining V Gate is fake.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Dave45 on December 25, 2012, 04:03:18 PM
I think the vgate is doable if the top magnet was replaced with a coil.
The coil could be pulsed instead of lifted to clear the gate.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: happyfunball on December 25, 2012, 07:55:22 PM
I think the vgate is doable if the top magnet was replaced with a coil.
The coil could be pulsed instead of lifted to clear the gate.

Only with applied external current. Lenz would apply.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Shankopotamus on December 26, 2012, 01:53:21 PM
@DAVE...
Interesting...but could enough electric energy be generated from one complete rotation of the "V" to effectively "pulse" the top coil?
-never thought about it this way.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Dave45 on December 26, 2012, 03:15:02 PM
Yes the coil would have to be powered by external circuit,
You can think of one rotation as one pulse, the coil is on until the gate is reached then the coil is off, allowing the gate to pass then on again.

I wonder how the coil would be effected if the drum was rotated,where the coil would be used as a gen instead of a driver, the amount of energy generated in the coil compared to a conventional setup.

The Hendershot device resembles the v gate,

Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: happyfunball on December 26, 2012, 07:02:23 PM
Yes the coil would have to be powered by external circuit,
You can think of one rotation as one pulse, the coil is on until the gate is reached then the coil is off, allowing the gate to pass then on again.

I wonder how the coil would be effected if the drum was rotated,where the coil would be used as a gen instead of a driver, the amount of energy generated in the coil compared to a conventional setup.

The Hendershot device resembles the v gate,

There's nowhere near enough force to create sufficient pulse current to overcome the end of the 'gate.' The V Gate is basically just dropping a magnet. Picking it back up ain't gonna happen without external current.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Shankopotamus on December 26, 2012, 07:17:10 PM
@HappyFun... & @Dave

I'm loving this. I only wish I would have found this site / group of like-minded people years ago...I was starting to think I was crazy for thinking more about free energy than what "so-and-so was doing on some dumb tv show".

I'm sure since you guys are avid users, you've probably seen this, but this is a very convincing vid, which not only moves the "gate" away from the top termination point, but also activates another "push gate" at the bottom of the revolution.

Is this possible? Or is the guy using music to mask the noise of an outside power source?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus

Thanks!
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: happyfunball on December 26, 2012, 09:22:59 PM
@HappyFun... & @Dave

I'm loving this. I only wish I would have found this site / group of like-minded people years ago...I was starting to think I was crazy for thinking more about free energy than what "so-and-so was doing on some dumb tv show".

I'm sure since you guys are avid users, you've probably seen this, but this is a very convincing vid, which not only moves the "gate" away from the top termination point, but also activates another "push gate" at the bottom of the revolution.

Is this possible? Or is the guy using music to mask the noise of an outside power source?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus)

Thanks!

Yes, he's using music and a rather elaborate wrap around background to hide an induction setup or an air blower. You'll notice how he's oddly careful to keep it in one spot when he rotates it 360 for a good view. It's an old video and a complete fake.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Dave45 on December 27, 2012, 01:40:39 PM
Search youtube for v gate there are alot more devices that use the gate than just this vid, the problem is no torque as a motor but I wonder what it would do as a gen.
You dismiss this out of hand when there are countless experiments that show the effect, makes me wonder.
Its the principle that needs to be investigated and built into an electromagnetic system, ie: how the fields are interacting to cause the ramp.
Study the A vector field, a magnetic field has another field that is very seldom mentioned that is electric in nature.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Dave45 on December 27, 2012, 01:47:40 PM
http://www.falstad.com/vector3dm/ (http://www.falstad.com/vector3dm/)
Go to this link after the java window opens select solenoid then in the next box select field lines.
The rotating field you see is the A vector field this field is electric in nature, it is the field that transfere's energy from one coil to another in a transformer.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 20, 2013, 11:45:23 PM
Hi, Ive been working on a design for the last 5 years now, its based on vgates and doesn't involve a mechanical arm to lift the bar magnet, instead i manipulate the magnetic field internally on a rotating shaft, the vgates are set around the bar magnets in a stationary casing. 3 vgates per cylinder, 12 cylinders in total. 36 bar magnets on the central shaft, 33 magnets on the ramp compared to 3 at the sticking point.  by manipulation the bar magnets as they pass the sticking point you can reduce the power of the bar magnet, allowing it to coast on to the next gate with help of the other 11 cylinders already running the gate!!!!

I seriously believe this design will work.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 12:13:15 AM
I am based in the UK, any help towards building a prototype would be greatly appreciated.  I have decided to replace the cylinder magnets with block magnets to make a more linear track, a bit like train tracks, i feel this will give a smoother operation.

Thanks, Mr J D Neilson
Keighley, West Yorks, UK
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2013, 09:56:10 PM
What makes you believe it will work? Every single stage in the mechanism represents a small loss. When you add them all up... where do you expect the losses to be made up and overcome? In other words, where is the place in the system where the "free energy" comes in to do its work?

If your outer housing is conductive metal, the inner moving magnets will induce eddy currents in this housing, which are a further loss mechanism.

Since the "V-gate" mechanism you are starting with as inspiration doesn't work, except in "faked" videos, why do you expect your design to work? For anyone to try to construct a prototype for you, one would hope that some theoretical justification for doing so would be provided. I don't see it.

Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 10:08:54 PM
The outer casing is made of perspex, the only metal components are the magnets, Iron ferrite rods and bismuth, the bar magnets can be cancelled by simply creating a horse shoe, the bar magnet then becomes the middle section and looses 90% of its attraction.  Also, the fact that lateral motion is achieved on 11 cylinders, thats 33 magnets @ 1kg pull force far outway the attraction of the "compromised" magnets.  The reason the casing is made of perspex is to remove static build up as this can reduce the stability of the magnetic fields.  The design has a equal pull along its shaft to ensure equal load on the magnetic bearings.  I have calculated the guass at each stage of each gate, there is 3 times the amount of pull force to counteract the reverse attraction at the end of the gate.  This is why I believe this will work. 
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: TinselKoala on November 21, 2013, 10:33:37 PM
The outer casing is made of perspex, the only metal components are the magnets, Iron ferrite rods and bismuth, the bar magnets can be cancelled by simply creating a horse shoe, the bar magnet then becomes the middle section and looses 90% of its attraction.  Also, the fact that lateral motion is achieved on 11 cylinders, thats 33 magnets @ 1kg pull force far outway the attraction of the "compromised" magnets.  The reason the casing is made of perspex is to remove static build up as this can reduce the stability of the magnetic fields.  The design has a equal pull along its shaft to ensure equal load on the magnetic bearings.  I have calculated the guass at each stage of each gate, there is 3 times the amount of pull force to counteract the reverse attraction at the end of the gate.  This is why I believe this will work.
The perspex case makes sense because it doesn't allow eddy currents.
You are wrong about "static buildup" influencing magnetic fields if you are talking about electrostatics, and in fact a metal housing would not allow electrostatic fields/charges to build up whereas a plastic one like Perspex would.
The rest, the part I can decode, is an empirical issue. Can you show any evidence, even in a simulation, that a _single_ "cylinder" unit can overcome its own losses? Your calculations don't mean much to me unless I can see your working. Errors have been made before in calculations!
Do you have any experience with magnetic bearings? With bismuth metal in conjunction with magnets? And what about the issue that the original "V-gate" doesn't work, and nobody has made any variation on one that does?
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 11:08:28 PM
The original calloway vgate posted by roobert33 loses all its momentum in lifting the stator magnet. and any device that relies on mechanical intervention will hit the same hurdle. if you are lifting something it requires energy!  I have the guass readings I was refering to, based on a bar magnets end (maximum pull force) sliding towards the middle of the bar magnet.

If you imagine the width of the magnets being 6mm wide
12 magnets per side of the vgate
and an offset of 0.5mm per stage in the vgate.

I will try and find them and post shortly
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 11:19:13 PM
I understand how magnetic fields work, I am using 3ds max for design and femm 4.2 for magnetic calculations.  I am looking at using bismuth as shielding although alkaline is a cheaper alternative but not as effective.  Dimagnetics basicly act like a mirror to magnetic forces, the forces cannot penetrate the surface and are reflected back.  As for the the bearings, using 2 ring magnets, the outer a NS and the inner SN and the repelling force sits the shaft central, magnets at both ends of the shaft, also repelling forces keep the shaft from being displaced.  The vacuum is to remove air friction, the bearings to remove mechanical friction and the magnetic clutch so power can be transfered via the vacuum. 
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 11:42:22 PM
I'm not sure where I read that static charges can influence magnetic bearings, I believe it was an article regarding Earnshaws theorem.  Regarding the rotation of magnets in a repelling state, I will tap off the static at the bearings as a precaution, a fluorescent tube should be sufficient.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: gyulasun on November 21, 2013, 11:47:09 PM
...
  I am looking at using bismuth as shielding although alkaline is a cheaper alternative but not as effective.  Dimagnetics basicly act like a mirror to magnetic forces, the forces cannot penetrate the surface and are reflected back.
...

Hi,

If you look for the magnetic permeability of bismuth, you will find it 0.99983  so just a tiny bit less than 1 which is the chosen permeability of air (for comparison).  So it is simply not true that the forces (I suppose you mean flux lines here) cannot penetrate the surface.  And if you were to use a rather thick piece of bismuth, it would be almost equivalent to the effect of an air gap corresponding to the thickness of the bismuth.

Links on permeabilities for some materials: 
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/magneticmaterials.cfm (http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/magneticmaterials.cfm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism)

Gyula
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: truesearch on November 21, 2013, 11:58:45 PM
@Jdneilson:


I don't want to discourage your experimenting and development at all. However, I don't believe that bismuth will do what you need. Take a look at this link from back in 2009/2010: http://www.overunity.com/8472/magnet-shielding/msg236766/#msg236766


Good luck with your discoveries and hope you keep posting  :)


truesearch
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 12:05:19 AM
Hmmmm, Was looking at bismuth in my original design, to use as a cap over the magnets. like a quadrant of a sphere.  allowing the attraction and then repelling once the magnet had passed over the bismuth.  Thankfully that was an old design idea and bismuth isn't mission critical in this design!!!  Thanks for the heads up on bismuth :)
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 12:29:14 AM
Here's the cylinder construction
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: truesearch on November 22, 2013, 12:46:11 AM
@Jdneilson:


Is the attached non-3d image sort of what you see for your V-Gate design?


truesearch
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 12:58:41 AM
Similar, apart from the gap is bridged with an iron ferrite disk, the disk has cutouts where the sticking points would be, the disk keeps the flux lines tight along the first 11 points of the vgate and greatly improves the attraction of the stator bar magnets.  when the 12th "Sticky" part of the vgate is reached the gap reduces the power of the bar magnet and makes the field lines between the 12th stage loose and reduces the power at this point so less attraction to pull it back!  Very simple design.   33 Bar Magnets vs 3 compromised magnets.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 01:05:48 AM
Will take a look at any comments tomorrow, must go to bed as I have work in the morning, Night all!
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2013, 08:14:39 AM
I understand how magnetic fields work,

Apparently you do not, as the rest of this post indicates.

Quote
I am using 3ds max for design and femm 4.2 for magnetic calculations.

You have great skills with your CAD package. Your drawings are very nice and clearly took a lot of work. You are to be congratulated for that much anyway. But any simulation package like femm is only as good as the assumptions that go into it. If you feed it garbage it will happily process that garbage into pretty packaged... garbage.

Quote
I am looking at using bismuth as shielding although alkaline is a cheaper alternative but not as effective.  Dimagnetics basicly act like a mirror to magnetic forces, the forces cannot penetrate the surface and are reflected back.

And here you begin again to go wrong, as others have pointed out above. "Alkaline"? What??

Quote
  As for the the bearings, using 2 ring magnets, the outer a NS and the inner SN and the repelling force sits the shaft central,

This much is correct and can work, as many before you, most notably the Steorn lads with their "plinth" Orbo motors have shown. But...

Quote
magnets at both ends of the shaft, also repelling forces keep the shaft from being displaced. 


Again here is where you go wrong. One end of the shaft has to bear against a fixed surface, or the system needs to be actively stabilized by electromagnets, sensors and a feedback system. Steorn weren't able to overcome this (in spite of something like 14 or 20 millions of pounds of investment burn) and wound up having one end of their shafts fitted with a tiny ball that would bear against a hardened micrometer head, which also allowed the "in-out" or endplay adjustment to get the proper positioning of the concentric ring magnet bearings for good support.

Quote
The vacuum is to remove air friction, the bearings to remove mechanical friction and the magnetic clutch so power can be transfered via the vacuum.

Nothing wrong there, except that the bearing system won't work the way you think it will. And of course... the air friction would be negligible compared to the great power you think you are going to get, so why go to the complexity and trouble of removing it.

Quote
I'm not sure where I read that static charges can influence magnetic bearings, I believe it was an article regarding Earnshaws theorem.

Please keep looking, I'd like to see the article.
Funny that you should mention Earnshaw's Theorem, but you believe that you can suspend a shaft between two repelling magnets at the ends of the shaft. Earnshaw's Theorem tells us, among other things, that you cannot do this. (The "Levitron" spin-stabilized toy is a special case that doesn't disprove the theorem and requires incredibly precise adjustment to work properly.) Maybe a first, and simple, step for you would be to get yourself a shaft and some ring and button magnets and try it for yourself. You should be able to build a frame of sufficient strength and accuracy from commonly available materials (wooden "craft sticks" and Duco cement, for example), and you can use almost anything, like a wooden dowel, as a shaft.  If you can get your shaft to "float" stably between the end magnets.... please let me know right away; that much alone would be a highly significant result.

Quote
Regarding the rotation of magnets in a repelling state, I will tap off the static at the bearings as a precaution, a fluorescent tube should be sufficient.

I still have no idea why you think there will be "static" in your system. Rotating magnets don't produce electrostatic charges on their own, and the current from electrostatic discharges is generally so weak that you can't detect the magnetic fields around them with ordinary equipment; neither will external magnets have much influence on normal electrostatic motors or generators, except by pulling on their metal parts.

Quote
The original calloway vgate posted by roobert33 loses all its momentum in lifting the stator magnet. and any device that relies on mechanical intervention will hit the same hurdle.


That isn't why that one doesn't work, but it is certainly another loss in the system, that roobert had to overcome by adding power from outside. There are lots of other "Calloway vgate" versions that don't lift the stator like roobert's clever model does, though... and none of them work, either; they lose all their momentum because _there is nothing to replace it_.

Just so you know, I do have a little bit of experience with magnets, magnetic levitation, magnetic bearings,  rotating machines, and electrostatic generators and motors. I have practical experience from building and testing things, as well as a "fair" grounding in theory. I sure can't make drawings like yours, though! That's a skill I envy, and you should be able to put it to good use.
       
Good luck, keep thinking, and +please+ try to do some real "proof of principle" experimentation on your own. Getting a shaft to float between the end magnets would be a great start.

I'll post this for your amusement, although I've posted it before in various places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfw-TeJ9r4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfw-TeJ9r4)
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 08:54:44 PM
TinselKoala, It would appear that you too have a talent, The ability to pick and ridicule anyone on here that has an idea, judging from your replies to other posts you seem to have the ability and will to deter anyone from even attempting to create such devices, maybe you should seek employment with the nearest petro-chemical plant or energy supplier.  You evidently have a calling

Thanks to all the other people for suggestions and pointing me in the right direction.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: conradelektro on November 22, 2013, 09:43:48 PM
TinselKoala, It would appear that you too have a talent, The ability to pick and ridicule anyone on here that has an idea, judging from your replies to other posts you seem to have the ability and will to deter anyone from even attempting to create such devices, maybe you should seek employment with the nearest petro-chemical plant or energy supplier.  You evidently have a calling

Thanks to all the other people for suggestions and pointing me in the right direction.

I want to defend TinselKoala because many people attack him for what he does.

TinselKoala has the great talent of looking through misconceptions and illusions and he even takes the time to read and to comment. All the good people who post happily misconceptions and illusions should be grateful, but they attack instead of thinking, measuring and learning.

What does this say about the attackers?

If you make extraordinary claims you have to accept criticism and questions! Is this so hard to understand? Every mentally sane person will demand proof. Therefore a claim without proof is an offence. If you make extraordinary claims without proof you offend the reader because you assume that the reader is stupid.

If you make an extraordinary claim you have to provide proof. The readers of your extraordinary claim do not have to prove that your claim is wrong. It is never possible to prove that some concept will NOT work, it has to be proven that it DOES work.

TinselKoala does not attack, he explains. He might be a bit cynical, but people who make these extraordinary (and mostly foolish claims) without proof really deserve some ridicule for turning the burden of proof around.

Be glad that TinselKoala is around and listens and replies. I myself have almost stopped replying to extraordinary claims because the "inventors" do not want to discuss their claim, they want to be right without proof.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: minnie on November 22, 2013, 10:53:47 PM
Hi Jdneilson,
               I've just read the Koala's comments and all of what he says seems true to me.
 Koala puts in a lot of effort to try and help the likes of you. If you take into consideration
what he's pointed out it save you a lot of wasted time. Rubbish in, enhanced rubbish
out!
     John.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: MileHigh on November 23, 2013, 01:38:42 AM
Jdneilson:

Please read the thread "Building a self looping "SMOT." (http://www.overunity.com/13879/building-a-self-looping-smot/msg377653/#new)

There you will find a discussion about magnetic potential energy, kinetic energy, gravitational potential energy, and magnetic potential energy wells.  That is the real language that describes the energy dynamics of a system like the one you are proposing to build.  If you absorb that information you may want to rethink your whole system.

MileHigh
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: TinselKoala on November 24, 2013, 06:35:30 PM
TinselKoala, It would appear that you too have a talent, The ability to pick and ridicule anyone on here that has an idea, judging from your replies to other posts you seem to have the ability and will to deter anyone from even attempting to create such devices, maybe you should seek employment with the nearest petro-chemical plant or energy supplier.  You evidently have a calling

Thanks to all the other people for suggestions and pointing me in the right direction.

And, like others of your ilk, you would rather insult me than do your own experimentation. Recall that you are asking for help, you have tried to get someone to examine your design and to build a prototype, which would take lots of money, time, knowledge, tooling and skills --- knowledge and skills which you clearly do not possess yourself. It is much MUCH more difficult and time-consuming to work with actual materials than it is to draw pretty pictures in a CAD package. I have already given you, freely, the equivalent of hundreds of dollars worth of consultation time and thought, and you repay me with scorn and insult. That tells me a lot about YOU and your "calling".

Go on, get yourself some magnets, get off your ass, and do something ON YOUR OWN. When you have a real device that shows ANY of the things your idea depends upon, like "shielding", endwise levitation/suspension without any contact, or energy gain from even a single gate... or the influence of static electricity on magnets or vice-versa.... then you may EARN some credibility. But with this post you have proven yourself to be yet another blowhard sitzenpizzler who would rather insult those with real experience than do his own work.

Your claim about me is also plainly wrong, since I ALWAYS encourage people to DO THEIR OWN WORK PROPERLY and produce REAL DATA in support of their claims. I have given YOU YOURSELF a suggestion to try that you could do in an afternoon, if you had opposeable thumbs and could actually wield a tool. But evidently you cannot. I have nothing but contempt for people like you, who cannot do things on their own but insult those who can.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: TinselKoala on November 24, 2013, 09:05:25 PM
I've been thinking about this and I have more to say. Read it and consider it, or not: that is up to you.

You have asked for help in your project. Fine. I will stay completely away from the sound physical "theoretical" principles that prevent your idea from working and I will discuss only practical, empirical situations.

Your project was inspired, apparently, by the Calloway V-gate, which has never worked for anyone who has tried it, and as "evidence" you referred to roobert's famous faked device, which most of us know is "working" due to the injection of outside power somewhere. I can think of five or six ways to do it without even straining. Roobert himself said he used an electromagnet "under his shirt" but I can think of better ways. Nobody, nowhere, no how, not Calloway or anyone else has ever shown a _real_ gain from the Calloway arrangement of magnets (or any other, by the way).  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of this: that is how a rational discussion proceeds.

Take a look here (or anywhere else) and see if you can find any genuine evidence of a Calloway V-gate working without adding energy by hand or machine.
http://callowayengines.com/

Your design depends on several things. Bismuth, shielding, endwise levitation without contact, and you have referred to "static" interacting with permanent magnets.
You believed at first that the diamagnetic metal Bismuth would somehow shield magnetic fields. Other people corrected you on this before I had a chance to. Your belief told me that your claim to "understand magnetic fields" or magnetism, however you put it... was in error.  I immediately thought of the Dunning-Kruger effect. The only thing that can "shield" a magnetic field without itself being strongly attracted to the source of the field is a superconductor, and then you actually find your magnet "pinned" by its field to the superconductor, which is even worse than simply being attracted to it. Mu-metal, which is specifically formulated, worked, and sold for magnetic and electromagnetic shielding.... is very strongly attracted by a magnet, and it is this fact of strong attraction that prevents "shielding" from helping a permanent magnet motor to work. Please correct me, with checkable and credible references, if you think any of this is incorrect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRby1Wilv-Q

The suspension of your rotor shaft inside your apparatus depends on radially-acting magnetic bearings, a known technology that all of us here are familiar with, because we remember Steorn. However, it also depends on longitudinal, or end-wise, levitation or suspension without physical contact. Earnshaw's Theorem explains why this cannot work stably. Even the use by Steorn of the same radial bearing system you describe, required the use of one point of contact at one end of the shaft to work stably. In stark contrast to your claim about me that I discourage experimentation, I described to you a simple experiment that you could try yourself: attempt to construct the basic bearing system that you have described, with end-wise levitation of a shaft using repelling magnets. (It's funny that people seem intuitively to understand that an _attractive_ endwise system cannot work, isn't it? But the situation is symmetrical. You can no more stably "hang" a shaft with attractive pairs on both ends, than you can "squeeze" it with repulsive pairs on both ends.)
You can order the ring and button magnets from the internet and have them at your door in four days. You can get a dowel and glue at the hardware store and craft sticks at WalMart or your local hobby shop. Some nylon nuts and bolts from the hardware or hobby store. Thirty dollars maximum for everything, and then you can experiment to your heart's content, and if you manage stable non-contact endwise levitation... like I said, let me know right away, because that would be a _significant result_. Just how significant I will leave to your imagination. The interaction between your hoped-for endwise suspension system and your magnetic clutch idea to transfer power through the walls of your vacuum chamber introduces yet another interaction that works against stability in both the axial and radial directions.

Again, if I am wrong in any of this, please correct me, and it would help if you could provide something other than opinion or simulation.

http://vimeo.com/10042235

Does anyone think CLaNZeR would not use full endwise levitation, if it were possible at all?

Finally, the issue of static and permanent magnets / bearings. At first I wasn't sure but you have convinced me you are indeed talking about electrostatic charges and the electric field from them. I showed you a video of a device of mine that uses strong electric fields, ion spray to transfer electrostatic charges and produces very fast rotation, and it uses a magnetic bearing system that is essentially the same as what you proposed, of course without the forbidden endwise levitation. (It's horizontal and uses only "half" of a fully radial magnetic suspension like you used horizontally and Steorn used vertically but the operating principle is exactly the same. Anyone who has worked with the Mendocino suspension, or a fully radial Steorn suspension, knows how precisely the end-play must be adjusted and maintained. Steorn even used a micrometer head readable in the hundredth of a millimeter to make their adjustments for optimal stability.) This system is not affected by any interaction that might be there, between the electrostatic elements, the surfaces, the cathode and anode structures, the charges and fields they produce, and the magnetic elements, the magnets and the fields from them. The two systems are totally independently acting, one does not influence the other in any way that I can detect. I have worked with that system and other electrostatic systems for a long time. A very long time. I asked you -- politely I thought -- to keep looking for the reference that was the source of your belief.
Electricity and electrostatic fields can and do interact negatively with _contact_ metal bearings, like journal, ball-race, roller-race bearings or even simple brass bushings with metal shafts running in them. Such bearings can be irreparably damaged by conducting, eg, lightning strikes or even lesser static discharges... and the reason for this should be obvious to anyone who has ever done any welding. Also, there are other effects that can make certain material combinations in bearings into electrostatic generators themselves.  But your design has no contact bearings. If some of your internal structures were made of a non-conducting material then rotating them past each other might generate some charge separation... but then there's that pesky vacuum. As I hope we now know, it takes a _hard_ vacuum to properly insulate high voltages.
Once more, if you care to challenge any of this, please do so, with a reasoned argument and including references to demonstrations of your own, or other credible outside resources.

I've already posted a link to my electrostatic Mendocino motor. There are many other videos on my channel dealing with electrostatics, and also with high voltages in a vacuum chamber. Some of these also involve magnets.

I have indeed tried to get creative and intelligent people _like yourself_ to stop wasting time on long-disproven systems that have neither empirical nor theoretical support, and I've tried to provide information -- from demonstrations and/or checkable outside references -- to help them understand what they are doing, and in some cases to do it a lot better. I've also helped several experimenters by "replicating" their work and checking their results and I've even given some very basic help to people who have been trying to build something or the other, like Bedini motors, Tesla coils, Joule Thiefs, electrostatic machines and etc. My YouTube channel has over 500 videos now on various topics, most of them with some kind of "free energy" connection somehow. You can think what you like about me, I don't really care much any more, but you should at least get your facts straight if you are going to make claims or insinuations about me.

Let's hope that's all I have to say in the matter.
 :-* :-*
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Jdneilson on November 26, 2013, 12:39:08 AM
I would like to take a moment to apologize, been a victim to numerous trolls on the net my first thoughts were "her we go again".  I jumped the gun and for which i'm sorry.  After reading your last post I realize that you were actually trying to steer me in the right direction. 

I knew the theory behind bismuth, but as for the strength of the diamagnetic properties I now realize it would be pointless as a shield.

The statement about the static I read somewhere on the net, can't find it and was evidently wrong anyway.

The idea of a multi cylinder design comes from the various vgate vids on youtube which seem to be stuck on the idea of the stator magnets on the outside and some mechanical way of moving the stator magnets.

I then started looking at ways to influence the the magnetic strength of the stator magnets as they passed over on to the next gate.

I then started to look at gauss readings across magnets, www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.asp‎

There seems to be a sliding scale, The most outer of a bar magnet is obviously the strongest point of attraction, My design has the magnets of the vgate ofset by 0.5mm and a total of 12 magnets, thats 6mm of movement down the bar magnet.

The total attraction of 3 magnets interacting at 0.5,1.0,1.5,2.0  ....  5.5mm far exceeds the attraction of 3 magnets at 0.0mm

I was wondering what way would be most effective?  Having an iron disk as shown or 2 columns of magnets down either side in effect turning the stator into a horse shoe, moving the poles away to the center of the shaft and creating a neutral stator magnet to pass over to the next gate.

regarding the idea of the shaft, I saw a youtube vid of a magnet rod being suspended via 2 ring magnets, he had one end fixed using a metal ball pushing on another metal ball and the other end was by repelling magnets.  the friction of the 2 round balls wold be very minimal, or would you not trust the vid?  like I say, I only have the internet as a source of inspiration.  without the background in this field its hard to say what to trust. 

What software would you recommend using for visualizing field lines, or just get some ferrofluid or something similar? 

Sorry for jumping the gun, I now realise that you know your field of work and that you have a lot to offer.
I hope you accept my apology. 
 
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Trublu4au on August 20, 2016, 07:41:09 AM
Hi all,
My name is John Faust. This is my first post. I came upon this forum because I was watching some youtube videos on perpetual motion devices. That is when I came across this V-gate technology. I watched tons of videos demonstrating motors of various qualities. Sadly they all failed. But I KNEW that people were onto something here. They just needed the right poke in the right direction in terms of the configuration of magnets for these V-gate motors in order to make them perpetual where that outside magnet would not to be moved at all therefore demonstrating that no work was going into the system but yet power was coming out. Free energy in other words. So anyways, let me get to the point.

I'm a very poor person(on govt disability $700/mo) and I possess literally no means or money or even engineering skills to do this, but I know some of you engineering geniuses could do it easily. I believe I have figured out what the problem is with the V-gate. However, I'm a thinker not a builder. So, the problem I possess is I know what to do but not how to build it or the means to(yes that poor). I have a diagram of what needs to be done but need someone to build it. I must be honest I am poor and am only doing this for the money. My apologies if that offends anyone. I intend to get rich. I'm tired of struggling and I know the inventor of free energy will be a made man. So here is my offer. If one of you HONEST engineers who is willing to work with me will shoot me an email, I will send you the diagram of what I believe needs to be done to get this off the ground and produce perpetual motion which would lead to free energy. I'm not sure I'm right so I need experimental evidence and that requires a device to be built. The device is fairly cheap to build so no we aren't talking tons of monetary investment. Quite simple really. It could probably be built in a few hours by someone here providing they follow my directions exactly.

Again, my apologies I AM after the money because I am extremely poor. I just felt that I would be honest with the community.

So anyways if any honest people who believe in fair play are there, shoot me an email and I will send you the detailed diagram on how to construct the perpetual motion version of the V-gate. Free energy for the world. Infinite energy potential. No more gas in cars or electric bills. No more polluting the environment with fossil fuels, etc. You name it. This is worth literally billions or more money considering how it would change human society. You may end up being a rich person by taking a little moment of your time to contact me.

Yes I'm serious. Contact me if you want to work together and are honest enough not to steal the idea and run off to your own glory.
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Low-Q on September 06, 2016, 10:56:53 PM
Has someone e-mailed this man? Can't find e-mail information.



Vidar
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: gyulasun on September 07, 2016, 12:06:13 AM
Has someone e-mailed this man? Can't find e-mail information.

Vidar

I do not know the answer to your first question.  However if you send him a Personal Message via this forum, he will get it in his email box (not only in his Inbox here).
Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: Gabriele on September 07, 2016, 02:32:03 AM
You are all paranoics my friends.

Two systems i thought about to accomplisce more than a "rotation". One smoky and one brighter.

The smoky one first. Place a powerful magnet on a table. Far,over on it,where magnetic field is weak,approach Aluminium and Bismuth(or Gold and Pyrolityc Graphite...anyway 2 materials has same magnetic suscettibility but one paramagnetic and one diamagnetic)((you know suscettibility of diamagnetics is a straight line in a graphic with constant angle of rise due to H,while for a paramagnetic one is a straight line too but with angle varing depending from temperature)... Imagine 2 equals.
Now you approch one to another and they don't repell each others. Now move close to magnet,in theory the vertical repulsion and attraction of the two materials are bilanciated. When at contact with the magnet,paramagnetic repell diamagnetic because of the induction,generating energy. They move distant each others and now with the concept of the bilanciation of vertical repulsion-attraction ,move them far over the powerful magnet and repeat the cicle. What do you think?

The brighter?

Take a Gd alloy in a containter of aerogel with water inside,join with an hose this with a samario-cobalto magnet. Approch a magnet with the alloy,letting it to be attracted by the magnet,it will rise temperature heating the sm-co magnet. Now move the sm-co polarized oppositly to an another magnet. Now move togheter far from 2 magnets. As you can note the temperature of alloy decrease and increase in the same way during the travell,while the sm-co star from hot state,arrive in hot state,and leave loosing temperature. A magnet demagnetizes Temporarily in determinated ranges of 0,1% for celsius degree c.ca.

So when the sm-co approches is weak and when leave has a strong repulsion.

... For the second i have fews doubts for the firs more.

Experts please?

Your friend Gabriele

Title: Re: V Gate Magnetic Config
Post by: shylo on September 08, 2016, 12:48:47 AM
Hi John , I don't really understand any of that , but the more fields you introduce ,the more complicated it gets.
I learn better from seeing ,not reading.
artv