Author Topic: Lynx Joule Inverter (Read 135798 times)

Magluvin · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2012, 01:48:30 AM »

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 01, 2012, 12:49:51 AM

I tried some inductors alone. Didn't work. The transformer works best. Really needs that ferrite core, or steel laminations, otherwise you have to wind a monster aircore coil. I have a Philips 3.5 watt bulb which doesn't work because it is dimmable. be careful when choosing a test bulb. Find a non-dimmable.

Hey Lynx

I had ordered some key fob transmitters and receivers from Lynx I believe, some years ago for for an automotive 'wheel' lighting project. Worked great.

Hmm, I still see it just as an inductor that is needed. Just the right size/value should suffice.
I did a lot of work on Teslas, Igniter for Gas Engines circuit, and thats what got me to think inductor only. Not absolutely sure yet. So far im just working in my mind with this.

Im going to pick up a couple bulbs(led) this weekend.

Im dying to see whats inside.

lol. I requested this before from someone that was working with these, but I dont think they opened them yet.

Heck, just about everyone has opened a spiral FL bulbs base to see the circuitry. But no body seems to be interested in popping open an led yet. As far as I know. Maybe most assume it is just super simple and not worth the pluck of a flat head screw driver.

There must be a converter of some sorts. These days its mostly all rectified wall current to a cap to around 150V, then that pulsed into a transformer to get the desired output. Being that your setup shows blinking reactions and ways to limit that, by change of inductance, then it must be a pulsed converter.

The inductors properties can allow the cap in the bulb circuit to load up to more than 12 from the battery. I might say that the initial voltage to the cap when 12 is applied through the inductor could be upwards of 24V. Then the dc to dc portion of the circuit most likely can operate at that initial voltage, causing the cap to pull more from the battery, in pulses, and at maybe higher voltages than 24. The inductor causes a flywheel effect as it doesnt want to allow current to stop flowing somewhat once it starts conducting.

Juleseeker doing the light box test is a good idea. I dont know if it will absolutely determine output power differences, but if he sees equality in normal operation and your way of powering it, then we should get close to a real idea of what we are getting one way or the other. The flickering may affect readings. It would be good to have a high sample rate light meter and a computerized graph. Or a scope with a light sensor.

Have you popped one of these bulbs open yet? If no, WHY!!!!

lol just kidding.

Maybe I will be the first.

Thanks for showing. ;]

Mags

Groundloop · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2012, 02:05:46 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin on December 01, 2012, 01:48:30 AM

Hey Lynx

I had ordered some key fob transmitters and receivers from Lynx I believe, some years ago for for an automotive 'wheel' lighting project. Worked great.

Hmm, I still see it just as an inductor that is needed. Just the right size/value should suffice.
I did a lot of work on Teslas, Igniter for Gas Engines circuit, and thats what got me to think inductor only. Not absolutely sure yet. So far im just working in my mind with this.

Im going to pick up a couple bulbs(led) this weekend.

Im dying to see whats inside. lol. I requested this before from someone that was working with these, but I dont think they opened them yet. Heck, just about everyone has opened a spiral FL bulbs base to see the circuitry. But no body seems to be interested in popping open an led yet. As far as I know. Maybe most assume it is just super simple and not worth the pluck of a flat head screw driver.

There must be a converter of some sorts. These days its mostly all rectified wall current to a cap to around 150V, then that pulsed into a transformer to get the desired output. Being that your setup shows blinking reactions and ways to limit that, by change of inductance, then it must be a pulsed converter.

The inductors properties can allow the cap in the bulb circuit to load up to more than 12 from the battery. I might say that the initial voltage to the cap when 12 is applied through the inductor could be upwards of 24V. Then the dc to dc portion of the circuit most likely can operate at that initial voltage, causing the cap to pull more from the battery, in pulses, and at maybe higher voltages than 24. The inductor causes a flywheel effect as it doesnt want to allow current to stop flowing somewhat once it starts conducting.

Juleseeker doing the light box test is a good idea. I dont know if it will absolutely determine output power differences, but if he sees equality in normal operation and your way of powering it, then we should get close to a real idea of what we are getting one way or the other. The flickering may affect readings. It would be good to have a high sample rate light meter and a computerized graph. Or a scope with a light sensor.

Have you popped one of these bulbs open yet? If no, WHY!!!! lol just kidding.

Maybe I will be the first.

Thanks for showing. ;]

Mags

Magluvin,

I did post the circuit drawing of a OSRAM 3W LED lamp, but I can re-post it here.
I do not think that the 110VAC types differ much from the 230VAC ones.
I have also attached the data sheet for the LED driver IC used in LED lamps.

GL.

evolvingape · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2012, 02:31:51 AM »

Mags,

Some links for you:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm

http://www.extremecircuits.net/2010/05/ultra-bright-led-lamp.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16646021/LED-LAMP-Circuits

http://avalights5.businesscatalyst.com/how-leds-work

http://www.digitalversus.com/led-lamps.html

There are loads more on google. Might help everyone when playing with custom circuits for this new application

Magluvin · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2012, 02:56:23 AM »

Quote from: evolvingape on December 01, 2012, 02:31:51 AM

Mags,

Some links for you:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm

http://www.extremecircuits.net/2010/05/ultra-bright-led-lamp.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16646021/LED-LAMP-Circuits

http://avalights5.businesscatalyst.com/how-leds-work

http://www.digitalversus.com/led-lamps.html

There are loads more on google. Might help everyone when playing with custom circuits for this new application

Thanks E

When I was a kid, I took all my electric/electronic toys and stuff apart, to see what was in there.

If this circuit in the led bulbs is responsible for 'possibly' getting more light out for less, then I want to see the circuit in that bulb Lynx has.

I read an article that stated that the government implemented new rules for making ac induction motors so they cant be converted to rotoverters? I think it was.

So who knows here. Get it. So many new circuits today, who knows what they can do, with mods or out of their recommended limits of operation.

And maybe in the end, the light really isnt as bright as full ac power. Maybe its just a flashing illusion. The brain is funny that way.

But I still want to see.

The kid in me.

So Ill be ripping one apart this weekend.

Mags

Lynxsteam · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2012, 02:56:24 AM »

I just tried 18.5 volts and the amp draw is 163ma for three 3W bulbs (3 watts or about a watt apiece). The ma draw is linear with voltage. Magluvin, I think you are right that these are set up to convert 120 vac to 24vdc. The bulbs are almost full bright at 21 vdc.

This is just an option to the SJR and LJL which work very well. Its a good option for simplicity and for those non-dimmable bulbs. Maybe a good option to avoid converting solar to battery to inverter to AC where there are a lot of losses. If you can just run lighting straight from solar that's very efficient.

I don't think any special inductor or transformer is needed as long as the resistance isn't too high. A simple radio shack 10:1 is cheap and sturdy. I hope some of you try this and relate your observations.

Magluvin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:12:24 AM »

Quote from: Groundloop on December 01, 2012, 02:05:46 AM

Magluvin,

I did post the circuit drawing of a OSRAM 3W LED lamp, but I can re-post it here.
I do not think that the 110VAC types differ much from the 230VAC ones.
I have also attached the data sheet for the LED driver IC used in LED lamps.

GL.

Thanks G

Very cool, thank you.

Mags

Magluvin · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:12:49 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin on December 01, 2012, 03:12:24 AM

Thanks G

Very cool, thank you.

Mags

lol, must have hit quote instead of modify to do an edit. Oh well.

Mags

NickZ · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:24:24 AM »

Lynxsteam:
I connected a ferrite bead (rod) transformer that I made using 4 ferrite beads in line to form a rod. And connected it to the LS joule ringer 3.0 version circuit to light a 24 watt Cfl to what looks like close to full brightness, using about 19 volts. It lasted about 3 minutes and popped something inside which killed the internal circuit. So, these homemade inverters need to be made to specs, or they just damage the internal circuits of both the Led bulbs, as well as the Cfls, if their output is too high. This has also happened with the AC 110v led bulbs.
The gutted Cfls are not as easy to damage, as there is no circuit to burn, but they can start to carbonize the bulbs in time, if there is to much HV.
I still have not been able to light the higher wattage Cfl bulbs that I have, like the 65 watt ones, to anywhere close to full brightness using these home made inverters.

I think that using either 12 volt Cfls, or the 12v Led bulbs is really the best way to go when running off of solar. The 12v Cfls are $7 to $10 or so, compared to about the same price for the 12v Led bulbs (on ebay). But, the Cfls outputs twice as much light, so their actual cost per lumen/watt is 1/2 compared to Led bulbs.
So, the (free gutted) Cfls are still much easier to afford for now, if you can get them to light up brightly. I wish that I could... I'm getting there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXrpH_NLWiw&feature=youtu.be
also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEwqvtJUOA&NR=1&feature=endscreen
NickZ

evolvingape · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:35:16 AM »

Quote from: Magluvin on December 01, 2012, 02:56:23 AM

When I was a kid, I took all my electric/electronic toys and stuff apart, to see what was in there. If this circuit in the led bulbs is responsible for 'possibly' getting more light out for less, then I want to see the circuit in that bulb Lynx has.

I read an article that stated that the government implemented new rules for making ac induction motors so they cant be converted to rotoverters? I think it was.

So who knows here. Get it. So many new circuits today, who knows what they can do, with mods or out of their recommended limits of operation.

And maybe in the end, the light really isnt as bright as full ac power. Maybe its just a flashing illusion. The brain is funny that way.

But I still want to see. The kid in me.

So Ill be ripping one apart this weekend.

Mags

I was the same as a kid, took everything apart to see how it worked. Most of the time it was bust after and ruined, my parents still talk about it now. Some kids are like that I spose

Maybe you don't need light as bright as it can go, I never have my lights on full, dim them to a lower setting and it's perfect for me. I did not just put the links up for you, but for the people without your depth of knowledge and understanding. It is very easy to forget that people have different levels of understanding, so we should help them with a few nuggets of info so they can then dig themselves if they want to. It's not an insult to your abilities, please don't see it that way.

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 01, 2012, 02:56:24 AM

Maybe a good option to avoid converting solar to battery to inverter to AC where there are a lot of losses. If you can just run lighting straight from solar that's very efficient.

Agreed. Solar storage during the day, low energy lighting at night. Very efficient and reliable and makes up for low solar to electricity efficiency 15% ish of the panels

Magluvin · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:45:32 AM »

Quote from: NickZ on December 01, 2012, 03:24:24 AM

Lynxsteam:
I connected a ferrite bead (rod) transformer that I made using 4 ferrite beads in line to form a rod. And connected it to the LS joule ringer 3.0 version circuit to light a 24 watt Cfl to what looks like close to full brightness, using about 19 volts. It lasted about 3 minutes and popped something inside which killed the internal circuit. So, these homemade inverters need to be made to specs, or they just damage the internal circuits of both the Led bulbs, as well as the Cfls, if their output is too high. This has also happened with the AC 110v led bulbs.
The gutted Cfls are not as easy to damage, as there is no circuit to burn, but they can start to carbonize the bulbs in time, if there is to much HV.
I still have not been able to light the higher wattage Cfl bulbs that I have, like the 65 watt ones, to anywhere close to full brightness using these home made inverters.

NickZ

Typically, 400v caps are used after the bridge rectifier from input. As also shown in G's circuit above. I have seen 200 and 300v, but 400 is more typical.

If the cap is 400v, the rectifier is most likely the same or more.

Crack that sucker open and see what blew.

If the cap shorted, then there is possibility that the circuit after that is ok. Some caps may actually handle higher voltages than specified and some of this could get into the operating circuitry and maybe cause damage.

But maybe the cap is shot and your back in business with a replacement.

Mags

NickZ · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2012, 04:31:29 AM »

Yes, thanks. That was what blew, and I did replace it with another cap, as this was a brand new 24 watt Cfls which I liked a lot. But, that did not fix it, even though the cap was obviously cracked open, something else also must have burnt out. I'm tossing it in the big pile of other discarded Cfls for later recycling. Not worth the time it takes to fix, as they just costed about 6 dollars. It still works with the Exciter type circuits.
I don't know if you've seen my Joule Ringer Lamp video, inspired by Lynx, as well as Lasersaber.
It's running on 12v, and lighting a gutted 65 watt Cfl bulb. This is about as much light as I can get out of it using these circuits. I'm thinking of buying some 110 volt flourescent light circuits to connect to my newer joule ringer circuit, now that it can light 110v bulbs off of 12 volt batteries, or solar.
Or even getting 12 v flourescent light circuits, to light any tube, round halo bulbs, or Cfls. Anyways, just a thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTdrjIRiwo

Magluvin · « **Reply #26 on:** December 01, 2012, 04:54:39 AM »

Quote from: NickZ on December 01, 2012, 04:31:29 AM

Yes, thanks. That was what blew, and I did replace it with another cap, as this was a brand new 24 watt Cfls which I liked a lot. But, that did not fix it, even though the cap was obviously cracked open, something else also must have burnt out. I'm tossing it in the big pile of other discarded Cfls for later recycling. Not worth the time it takes to fix, as they just costed about 6 dollars. It still works with the Exciter type circuits.
I don't know if you've seen my Joule Ringer Lamp video, inspired by Lynx, as well as Lasersaber.
It's running on 12v, and lighting a gutted 65 watt Cfl bulb. This is about as much light as I can get out of it using these circuits. I'm thinking of buying some 110 volt flourescent light circuits to connect to my newer joule ringer circuit, now that it can light 110v bulbs off of 12 volt batteries, or solar.
Or even getting 12 v flourescent light circuits, to light any tube, round halo bulbs, or Cfls. Anyways, just a thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTdrjIRiwo

Ah. Well you can poke around to see if anything is shorted with a meter. Just to know.

Yes, I have seen the vid.

I wonder if we are stuck with just getting more light output per power in, rather than maybe charging another battery with a smaller on on the input. If ya know what I mean.
There must be a reason for a lot of claims having light bulbs as loads instead of motors or powering other devices that provide other forms of usefulness.

As for serious usefulness of cheaper lighting, this is great stuff. Ever fly in a jet plane and look down at the cities at night? Each one of those lil tiny orange street lights is 400 to 1000w. If we could just reduce that substantially, it would be a great accomplishment.

Nice work.

Mags

NickZ · « **Reply #27 on:** December 01, 2012, 05:36:56 AM »

The problem with getting more light out of the bulbs is the transistor heat issue, at anything above 12v. or burning out the internal circuitry of the 110v Cfls, and Led bulbs. So, either we'll have to be satisfied with lower light intensity, or... build somewhat more inefficient circuits using more components that will allow for higher voltage/current levels. The Joule Ringer's single transistor circuit work very well for the 110 volt, 7.5 watt led bulbs. I just can't buy them here in Costa Rica, yet. I'll have some brought to me sometime soon though. In the meantime these are the best bang for the buck that I've seen yet: 5 900 lumen 10 watt Led lights, for $12, free shipping.
Wish they came with a small fixture, to mount them on the ceiling.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-10W-Watt-LED-Cool-White-High-Power-900LM-LED-Lamp-SMD-Chip-9-12V-DC-/330790452557?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D117%26meid%3D2880964511898202726%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1065%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D110946278953%26

TinselKoala · « **Reply #28 on:** December 01, 2012, 11:56:05 AM »

That LED driver circuit looks to me like you might be able to get away with using a simple mosfet in place of the "driver" chip. The optoisolator output feeding the gate of the mosfet, with a resistor or two scattered about in there. I've used optoisolators to trigger mosfets before, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Lynxsteam · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2012, 02:46:32 AM »

Nick,

This thread really isn't about lighting CFLs, but I understand your situation. LEDs are expensive and not available easily in Costa Rica. You can light unmodded CFLs on the LJL with collector/secondary connection. Moving the connection from emitter to collector really keeps the transistor in its range. A 2n3055 can handle 60-70 watts. But CFLs are power hogs compared to LEDs so maybe two to three bulbs max on a single 2n3055.

Another thought is starting them with a third winding on the secondary and switching over to a lower setting once they are warm. If you watch my vids on the LJL, you will see that I wind three layers of secondary on the form. Also, (and this is different) for CFLs, I would run two parallel wires for the primary. You will have in effect fewer primary turns, but less resistance too. On the high setting you will quickly warm the bulbs and then you can disconnect the third layer of secondary. Its tough to perfectly design these LJLs for both LEDs and CFLs. That's why I use taps on the three layers of secondary.

So, back to this thread. I hope you can get one of these LEDs to see how simple this Lynx Joule Inverter is. Its so simple it kind of takes the fun out of it.

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Author Topic: Lynx Joule Inverter (Read 135798 times)

Magluvin

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Groundloop

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evolvingape

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Magluvin

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Lynxsteam

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Magluvin

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Magluvin

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NickZ

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evolvingape

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Magluvin

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NickZ

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Magluvin

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NickZ

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TinselKoala

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Lynxsteam

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