@Fenyman and anybody who thinks life is worth living and bettering

Plazma is created from gas when the gas is electrically highly stressed.  Like in a spark gap.  You can proove this but you need experience with high voltage dc pulsed fields, a spark gap, and a thermometer.  A spark gap gets colder than the surrounding energy fields.  Plazma acts like a liquid and is responsible for all magnetic flow circuits.  It becomes relative to the entire tempic construct of the Universe.  Energy will flow towards the dc pulsed torroid in Alecks diagram.  The capacitors collect the energy and pulse the plazma creator torroid in such a manner that the energy flow creates a hurricane of energy conversion..   Study the Sun.  The suns surface is hot but the real energy we feel everyday is on the way towards the plazma cirulation inside the sun.  Now if you want to create a new sun here on earth Alecks diagram is the way to go.  Even SM knew enough to keep the control windings inside the plasmic ring.

@Zerotensor


Actually wait what happens if you get the spiral direction wrong.. hmmmm...    It might not matter, right?  Because inside will have the highest net (-) charge and outside will have highest net (+) charge?  Theoretically, you can pull a DC current equivilent to the number of rays you are producing?  I'm starting to think this just might work!

Here is some more info....  I'm still diggin haven't got to Emails yet.

Random Notes.....
"
 The main purpose is design a circuit for discharge a condensers bank for tap energy in the nuclear reaction performed in a pure carbon rod with the following dimensions:

Length = 60 millimeters
 
Diameter =  6 millimeters

Then, the volume of the carbon rod will be  1,7 cm3, value for consideration in the required energy level for the initial nuclear activation process inside of the carbon rod, at more volume more starting activation energy and more energy at the output , this is because the carbon rod used for you can be of different dimensions and may be no a pure carbon rod, if the rod is not pure the calculations can be approached as if it was pure, is best use an excess of energy than use a value down the minimal starting required
 
 Resistance of the carbon rod = 0,18 Ohms

 Voltage of the condenser bank used = 37 Volts DC

  And so, we can see a peak of current in the condenser discharge of a maximal current of 37 / 0,18 =  206 Amperes , value for consideration in the choice of the power Fet can support that short pulses of current, the true value of the discharge current peak will be more because the parallel resistance added for the electrode reduce the initial resistance of the carbon rod
  For get the energy of the beta radiation o or high energy electrons I use a toroid wired of the following way

Diameter = 6 mm

Number of turns = 300 , with wire of 0,5 mm of diameter
 
Polarization magnetic field =  135 gauss


  The volume of the carbon rod establishes the minimal energy for starting the nuclear reaction , value we can calculate, as I was a DC power source of 37 Volts that is the stating charging voltage of the condensers bank and the total capacity as before mentioned is 160000 microfarads
  The condensers bank I was using don?t was electrolytic, I use Mylar condensers, 2 condensers of 80000 micro Farads each,

I suggest not use electrolytics, each condenser support until 50 V DC each, however we can work with others voltages and others capacity values, the formula for the energy stored in a condenser is

         U =  ? .C.V?
 

  Where C is the capacity in Farads and V the load voltage , then we can see the more influence variable is the voltage V,

that is say if we double the voltage the capacity for get a certain energy level will reduce 4 times, or if we use 10 times the initial voltage the capacity will reduce 100 times, and so if we use high voltage  the capacity will reduce notably , the limit is in the voltage can drive the power transistor used , for that reason Tesla was using vacuum tubes because it support high voltages,  and can be used as condensers or transistors, in this case we must keep the following proportion:

      C.V? = 0.16 .37? = 219.04

 That is say, the energy stored in this condensers bank is about 109 Joules, and in the following we can see a table for voltage in load and capacity of the condenser bank and you can choice the best option according your resources


Case   Capacity (micro farad)         Voltage ( Volts )
1   1521200                                12
2   380300                                 24
3   87620                                  50
4   21920                                 100
5   9740                                  150
6   2280                                  311
7   760                                   540

 For the case 5 is like connect a condensers bank to an electrical net of 110 VAC, the case 6 is for a net of 220 VAC, and the case 7 for the voltage between the lines or phases in a triphase system of 220 VAC for phase and 380 VAC between the lines



 The discharge to the carbon rod without polarization in the toroid get the nuclear reaction in the internal structure of the rod, but as there is not alignment of the magnetic dipoles inside of the rod there is not a coherence in the electrons emissions for sum electrons to the electrical current in the carbon rod and there is not the necessary acceleration of the electrons inside of the carbon rod like the cathodic rays in a TV monitor , remember electrons inside of a conductor moves too slow and here we need a big speed added for the capacitor bank discharge and the polarization magnetic field of the toroid get an acceleration effect



   Testings and meditions shown here are for a first cycle of starting of the device, the closed loop operation is obvious, but here is not shown because is not practical, you will have a setup not equal to the used here, for that reason is than you build his discharge setup and get his parameters measurements for get the best values of feedback timings and the feedback power
 The device is portable because one time is required for the start of the system and since the system is precharged it is portable and can start in any place and weather condition and any transportation conditions
 
 For finish, we can use not only solid plasma, discharges in gas tubes get the same results without magnetic polarization because there is a return of power to the initial starting discharge condensers bank, neon tubes is an option
"

Will add more later as I find it.

Dave

Actually, Sparks, I see some arrogance, which may be an artifact of your grasp of the English language - and perhaps not specifically intended - when responding to Aleks.

I'd suggest that you both tone it down a bit. In my third party view, it seems as though we have a bit of an ass being an ass, and catching some snide comments from another forum member who hasn't displayed a full grasp of the subject matter either.

To both of you: I did not participate in 4 hours of audio interview early in the morning, and bestow upon this forum my knowledge and efforts for a few folks to start turning things sour. If there is bad blood between you two, then please leave it off this thread. I'll be happy to take my ball and go home otherwise.

Now, insofar as the calculations I was laboring over earlier, and was continually interrupted by telephone calls - I would say this:

I have now calculated that @10 inches from the device, which is where most measurements have been made... we should see 200mSv/s during non-feedback operation.

This roughly corresponds, according to the definition of the Sv, rem, and roentgen, and all associated conversions between the three, to approximately .2E11 ions generated in one cubic centimeter of air.

Assuming this rather low interaction rate between beta radiation and the surrounding media also corresponds to metal (which would give a larger number of ions per CC) I have correlated this to a Gaussian surface with radius 10 inches (approximately 25cm) centered on the device. I have also assumed the finite carbon rod to be a point source of beta particles. This does not affect calculations of total Beta particle flux, but would affect how a collector is to be designed.

In any case, with these assumptions, one should expect, on a toroid of cross sectional surface area 18 square inches, normal to the beta radiation - that is, a ring surface 12 inches in circumference and 1.5 inches in width - one should see a total ion flux of approximately 18uA.

In non-feedback mode, we see much larger fluxes of both electrical energy and beta radiation exiting the device. We also see large amounts of beta radiation passing right through the toroid, however we do not see it passing through aluminum wrapped around the toroid, even with thin layers of shielding.

This has led me to continue my assumptions, since this is approximately the current taken from the device at normal running. If we integrate over the surface of a 10 inch radius sphere, we get a surface area of just over 1200 square inches, and a total current flux of 1.2mA. I am assuming that the beta flux can be treated as a point current source, dumping charge outward through the surface, such that we have a volume of current. The problem with this assumption is that the beta particles will generate approximately 1 million free electrons each, under ideal circumstances, in a metal such as aluminum or zinc. The previous assumption is based on the ions present in a 1 CC detector volume, presenting 2E11 ion pairs to the detector electrodes.

On one hand, metal is denser, and a more effective shield than air, thus we will have less depth of penetration, but as a result, in 1CC, at least for beta radiation, we will get 100% absorption. This means that along a 10 inch path in air, we get 1Sv/s when self-powered, but even at a few feet, we get 0% above background, yet with very high detectable levels of ozone (sniff test). With 7W of input power, we should not be getting equivalent levels of ozone to a tungsten arc welder running at 100A and a few dozen volts.

This, however, is not necessarily indicative of recoverable energy. It simply and qualitatively indicates the number of ionization interactions we are getting with minimal input power.

However, taking that same CC of air or metal, and normalizing to square centimeters of surface area, we can calculate the beta flux as current passing through our Gaussian surface.

Here is my final assumption. If we have an equivalent beta flux density of 2E11 beta particles per second per square centimeter, then this is 15483E11, or 15.5E14 beta particles per second, integrated over the whole surface area of our Gaussian surface @ 10 inches (25cm) from the device.

Please keep in mind that this is a lowball estimate, assuming that one beta particle is responsible for, and only responsible for, one ion pair. In general, this is not the case, as the 13MeV energy of the beta particle is typically dissipated over many many ions such that the final energy is roughly equal to the first ionization energy of the media.

Now, we have 15.5E14 beta particles per second. Converting to current gives us  6E18 electrons per coulomb, and with one coulomb per second being one amp, we are able to see that we are about a factor of 4E3 short of where we'd like to be for getting even a single ampere out of this thing as beta particles. However, this means that we're getting about 4mA out of the entire surface area.

In the form of 13.3MeV beta particles.

That's not half bad, when you consider that 15.5E14 beta particles at 2E-12 Joules per particle gives you about 31E2 Joules per second, or 3.1KW worth of discharge energy....


Then we should be able to have a 3.1 KW generator sitting on our desk. Worst case scenario. Assuming half the beta particles are getting "missed" by the detector, because in a CC of air, we wind up with about 99.99999% free space between the molecules, we can easily see how a very good capture mechanism could give us 6KW out of a toroid driven by a little bitty 6 or 7W input drive.

These numbers are confirmed by experiment, and as mentioned previously, capture is the only problem. Even snagging only a few tenths of a percent of the output power seems to run the device, with some energy left over to charge a battery in record time.

So, in conclusion - aleks and sparks - this is the kind of input I expect to see from others. Not bitching back and forth and one telling the other that he's a moron. I don't have the time or patience to allow myself to be irritated by those around me. Learn to control your feelings - only you can decide how to react to a stimulus - no other human can control your emotions, for better or worse.

I do not expect everyone to dump hours into this as I have, but if you have input, please make it as concise and constructive, and if you have questions, keep them professional, or constructive. There is a place for humor - just be sure it's not at anyone's expense.

Thank you for your consideration.

R3CUR5!<3

@waves

groundloop says the Al foil may be too thick for the spiral to work.  you might need to order very very thin foil. i might try winding one anyway for practice.  i am going to cut a strip say 3cm wide and 1m long, and then glue regtangular carboard spacers every few cm, then try winding it onto itself.


Well first off I want to say if anyone is measuring using an aluminum can or  other cylinder as collector, measure the potential difference and/or current between the inner and outer collector surface, not the potential from the collector can back to the carbon!

@R


Beta Deflection
(http://www.lbl.gov/abc/graphics/magnet.gif)

Possible Beta Collector
(http://www.rexresearch.com/testatik/betacapt.jpg)

"To extract energy from Beta particles it is not just enough to capture them. Clearly this will result in a current flow according to the capture rate, but current by itself is not power. The kinetic energy of the particle must be captured and this will result in potential difference or voltage. If a Beta particle enters a thin foil conductor normal to its surface and is captured, then the potential difference associated with giving up its kinetic energy can be expected to occur across the opposite faces of the foil. If however the Beta particle were turned so as to enter at a shallow grazing angle to the surface, not only would the probability of capture be increased (since the particle will travel further within the material) but the potential difference will occur along the length of the foil. Beta particles travelling even at relavistic velocities can be turned within short distances by relatively weak magnetic fields, so the concept shown in the following Figure suggests itself."

Thanks for the latest calcs.  Would you mind to comment on the foil spiral collector, and how this high surface area might interact with your assumptions for beta emission? Imagine we are biasing the carbon axially, so the magnetic flux runs through the rod  Then the nearest aluminum layer absorbs most of the beta rays, the next layer a bit less, the next layer a bit less until the beta 'flux' goes to zero because it has all been absorbed, scattered, or re-emitted by the foil spiral. The design quotes above says shallow angle entry is preferred to collect the potential along the length of the foil. Now it seems to me the aluminum foil spiral (in theory anyway, assuming 100% absorption, no breaking radiation , no Auger electrons, etc) is going to provide maximum theoretical current flux from the beta particles.   I am deliberately neglecting quantum energy effects, and instead am simplifying the problem to one of electrostatics.  Let's assume we magnetically bias the thing properly and the beta rays are hitting the foil at some angle below 90degrees.   To me seems that at any point in time during device operation, where C is coulombs electrical charge, C will be highest towards the center of the foil and lowest towards the periphery.  Your theoretical current flux will be approx equal to the number of absorbed beta rays converted to electrical charge, minus any losses due to the previously mentioned effects (Auger, re-radiation, etc).  So  in theory anyway, this device current output should scale proportional with the intensity of the beta rays. 

Anyway, your ideas would be very much appreciated.

@UncleFester,
Congratulations on your progress. You seem to be getting some impressive results. How are you taking the output from your coil? Is there a voltage/current between the two leads of the coil or do you tie both leads together and measure the voltage relative to some other part of the circuit? I am still trying to figure out how to build one of these things.

A few Beta rays is a cakewalk if it means COP=200 and an end to this lunatic manufactured 'energy crisis'

@zerotensor

what if I remove every other magnet so that there are gaps between them, or just use one or two magnets? I'm building my ribbon coil at the moment, will upload pictures soon.

[edit]
nm, I can just wrap the core and stick the magnets on the sides for now.
[/edit]