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Author Topic: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions  (Read 373385 times)

Offline duff

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2008, 10:34:04 PM »

Another big puzzle for me is how do I test the output of this device?
I don't have a digital oscilloscope to freeze the wave form with.
I just have an ordinary oscilloscope and the output pulse could last for only milliseconds.


Take your camera and set it up on a tripod in front of your scope. Start recording and run your tests, then extract your results from the video clip.

-Duff

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Offline Feynman

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #136 on: May 14, 2008, 02:23:50 AM »
Okay, I may have spoken too soon.


We are trying to do the math to calculate the angular momentum of an electron in a Carbon sp3 orbital.  I will post the details as soon as we get it figured out.  Or else if you figure it out first, by all means post.  Basically, the idea is we are trying to figure out how the heck Naudin decided that a gamma ray is what would stop the electron. Our preliminary calculations indicated the expected energy could be in the microwave/infrared band, rather than gamma, but these calculations are very sketchy at the moment.   Full details on the way.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 02:45:32 AM by Feynman »

Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2008, 06:58:44 AM »
After doing some more research I found out that thorium-232 with a half life of 14billion years,
doesn't give off much radiation, but produces other isotopes that do.
It was found that keeping the rod covered will prevent those isotopes from escaping.
In my test with the radiation detector I discovered that the radiation was given off in bursts, with pauses in between.

As for using tungsten rods with the carbon;
We should be able to just place the rod close to the carbon rod to give it the gamma it needs.
So the tungsten rods will last for billions of years, only a one time investment.
Some welding shops sell tungsten rods one at a time, you may want to check into it.
Here were I live BOC welding supplies sells 1/8 inch rods for about $7 a piece.
I have some 1/16 inch rods too but the 1/8 inch rods give off a lot more radiation.

Does anyone know what the % means that is beside the half life.
And how to use it in determining how much energy the isotope will give off.

At the following website for boron-12  it says: half life: 20.20 MS ( 0.0990 % )
What does the (0.0990 %) stand for?
http://www.matpack.de/Info/Nuclear/Nuclids/nuclids0.html
Click on B then B-12  for the info.

@koen1
Another element I found interesting is tin120 zapped to get indium120
Indium-120:
# Spin: 1+
# Half life: 3.08 S ( 2.5974 % )
# Mode of decay: Beta to Sn-120
    * Decay energy: 5.370 MeV

Reason is it has a half life of 3 seconds,
That mean we could tap full power off it for 3 seconds,
Then half that for the next 3 seconds.
What ever full power would be?

Also tin is easy to get a hold of, just use tin solder, and indium is a very safe element too.
Neither one is toxic.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 07:56:28 AM by AbbaRue »

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2008, 06:58:44 AM »
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Offline Ww.We

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #138 on: May 14, 2008, 10:15:48 AM »
Hello everyone.

Some basic values need to be in place so I will present them as best as I can.
The goal is to provide some parameters upon which one could base the actual planning and building of the "carbonuclear device" (mind my renaming of the device in question). Please find holes in the proposed values and patch them.

1. Carbon:
               Diameter: 6mm ;
               Length:   60mm ;
               Volume: 1,73cm3 ;
               Resistance: 0,18 Ohm ;

2. Toroid for beta-capture:
               Wire diam.: 0,5mm ;
               No. of turns: 300 ;
               Magnetic field: 135 Gauss ;
               Toroids inner diam.: 60 mm (a bit bigger than the carbon rod's diam.) ;

3. Switching FET power calculation:
              Formula: condencer_voltage / carbon_restistance = result_in_Amperes

              Example: 36V / 0.18Ohm = 200 A

4. Energy stored in the capacitor (U in Joules; C in Farads; V in Volts):
             Formula: U = 0,5 * C * V2

             Example: lets freely choose C to be 0,16 and voltage to be 36 (as in previous example) therefore
                           U = 0,5 *  0,16 * 362 = 103,68 Joules

Conclusion.
We have a toroid, a piece of carbon, amount of energy to zap the carbon and an estimate for switching power to avoid burning FET's. Please provide at least 50% more to the estimated 200A. As for the output - I'm not entirely sure the 0,5mm wire is suitable for large currents.

Also required:
1. a mean density of carbon to provide the amount of atoms in relation to the volume of the carbon.
2. an energy requirement for input for this setup to produce the required output based on the atomic efficiency of this reaction (1 atom to Boron out of 100000 carbon atoms). The 100 Joules provided in the example is random.
3. provide magnetic field stats for both, the polarization toroid and the collector toroid.
4. enhance the Naudin schematic found at: http://jlnlabs.online.fr/vsg/vsgv2diag.gif

Suggestion:
1. If beta-radiation can be shielded easily then there is no point in shielding the carbon from the toroid.
2. "what if" the carbon would be flat and round instead of long and round - we're thinking rods and could be thinking more like tablets (more diameter and less length)


Please, do provide more numbers and stats.

BR,
ww.we

Offline Ww.We

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #139 on: May 14, 2008, 10:36:18 AM »
@AbbaRue

What happens when You zap a tin rod with ca 200A ? My point being - if it melts You need some way to keep it in one place.

What if You stuff the tin to a clay pipe? Zap it till the vaporisation point... There should be some type of fuse that is a round pipe with caps on both ends - just waiting for an inventor to stuff it up with a tin rod and then zap it.

How well is the shielding on beta radiation known (here, amongst the thread's readers)? Does the above proposed setup loose the meaning of it all or is it reasonable?

BR,
ww.we

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #139 on: May 14, 2008, 10:36:18 AM »
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Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #140 on: May 14, 2008, 11:49:54 AM »
Keeping in mind that the toroidal doesn't have to be sitting with the rods parallel to the table either.
You could set it up with the toroidal opening facing up,
Make a tube with a bottom and then you could place liquids into the chamber.

Also thinking about the flat disk idea:
If the disk is thin enough, couldn't we place an 1cm dia. neodymium magnet behind it for the B-field.

I'm still thinking along those lines, using a permanent magnet instead of a coil around the carbon rod.

A lot of interesting thoughts, but Enough talk, time for some action on my part.

Later. Harold.


Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #141 on: May 14, 2008, 11:51:01 AM »
Double Post

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #141 on: May 14, 2008, 11:51:01 AM »
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Offline Koen1

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #142 on: May 14, 2008, 12:43:55 PM »
As for using tungsten rods with the carbon;
We should be able to just place the rod close to the carbon rod to give it the gamma it needs.
According to Naudins experiment that should work, yes. As long as we have a small spark gap...

Quote
Does anyone know what the % means that is beside the half life.
And how to use it in determining how much energy the isotope will give off.

At the following website for boron-12  it says: half life: 20.20 MS ( 0.0990 % )
What does the (0.0990 %) stand for?
http://www.matpack.de/Info/Nuclear/Nuclids/nuclids0.html
Click on B then B-12  for the info.
I think it means that only 0.099% of all Boron atoms is in the form of the Boron12 isotope.
Which makes sense, with such a short halflife.
Of all Boron in nature, between 18.8 to 20.2 % (or was it 20.3? well somewhere in that region)
consists of Boron10, and the remaining 79 to 81 % is Boron11. Both are considered stable
isotopes so they have no half-life.
Seems very plausible that only 0.099% of Boron atoms is Boron12. :)

Quote
@koen1
Another element I found interesting is tin120 zapped to get indium120
Indium-120:
# Spin: 1+
# Half life: 3.08 S ( 2.5974 % )
# Mode of decay: Beta to Sn-120
    * Decay energy: 5.370 MeV

Reason is it has a half life of 3 seconds,
That mean we could tap full power off it for 3 seconds,
Then half that for the next 3 seconds.
What ever full power would be?
Well I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the longer the half life,
the less energy we get out per second...
So what we actually want to get massive output is a short half life
combined with a high decay energy...
That way we would get max ouput over the minimum amount of time,
allowing for more and faster successive bursts of input- and consequently
output-energy...
But, perhaps instead of high voltage output bursts, such a longer half life
would allow for a 'slower' output discharge in the sense of lower voltage
and less sharp spikes, which might make the output easier to handle... ?

Quote
Also tin is easy to get a hold of, just use tin solder, and indium is a very safe element too.
Neither one is toxic.

Yes, those would be the advantages indeed. Quite easy to get and no health risks at all.
I'm just still not entirely sure about the output... the decay energy is quite low and that combined
with the half life makes for a much lower energy output per second than most of the shorter
half life and/or higher decay energy isotopes...
But a nice idea nonetheless! :)

Offline Feynman

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #143 on: May 14, 2008, 03:40:28 PM »
Great comments guys... Still no word on the exact energy wavelength necessary to 'stop' the carbon electron, but let me run through the reasoning...

The sixth ionization energy of carbon is around 500eV (this also agrees with the approximate ground state energy according to quantum theory (~480eV)) , so we can consider 500eV to be the upper-limit on the amount of energy required to provide equal and opposite force to the angular momentum of the carbon valence electrons.  Now this energy level puts us somewhere in the hard ultraviolet / soft x-ray region of the electromagnetic spectrum.  From our calculations, the electron 'stop' energy required in Synergetic theory must be below this number (500eV).  I still do not see how Naudin gets 'gamma ray' as the energy necessary to oppose the angular momentum of the carbon valence electron, since X-rays/gamma rays are upwards of 1000-2000eV (unless Naudin got his 'gamma ray' by considering physically breaking those sp3 hydridized single bonds in the graphite).  So we are still very unclear on the implications of Synergetic theory here, and how Naudin came up with the gamma ray 'catalyst' requirement.

(http://lot.astro.utoronto.ca/images/spectrum.png)

Furthermore, the amount of gamma contained in thoriated tungsten is very very small. We think there are more gamma rays put off by interstellar radiation than by thoriated tungsten. Of course, the one way to know for sure will be to do two experiments -- one with Thoriated Tungsten, the other without, and to measure the difference in both beta radiation and collected discharge energy.  The latest calculation puts us somewhere between microwave/infrared and hard ultraviolet for the energy required to stop the carbon electron.  Or perhaps an absorbed photon isn't necessary... perhaps all that is needed a high voltage (high potential electron).  If this is the case, then we will see a highly nonlinear pattern when increasing the voltage and measuring the discharge energy. That is, if 1000V provides 10x the output energy of 500V, we can consider A) it's a nuclear effect  and B) the electrons (rather than high energy photons) may be providing the 'stop' energy. 

The only way to know for sure will be to do the experiments.   

As for the setup, I am sure the 'carbon rod' setup is probably the most inefficient setup conceivable ;) , so there is plenty of room for improvement here.

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #143 on: May 14, 2008, 03:40:28 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #144 on: May 14, 2008, 04:21:12 PM »
  @Fenyman

    Do you realize the infintesimal investment in energy needed to elicit mass conversion in a conductor compared to the amount of energy investment needed to elicit mass conversion in a semiconductor.  Run the math and I think you'll understand what I am saying.

Offline Feynman

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #145 on: May 14, 2008, 11:53:24 PM »
@all

A friend has been doing some research on Synergetic theory and carbon-fusion and he pointed out something very interesting we should be aware of (the Auger Effect).  Basically, in plain english, the Auger Effect means that when an electron falls to a lower orbital , this does not always results in emission of a corresponding photon.  Sometimes an this may result in emission of an electron instead.  This may be important in terms of the 'activation energy' proposed by Synergetic theory (and also because we are dealing with energetic beta electrons in general).

Auger Effect

The Auger effect (pronounced /ˈɔːʒɚ/, or Oh' jeh) is a phenomenon in physics in which the emission of an electron from an atom causes the emission of a second electron.[1] When an electron is removed from a core level of an atom, leaving a vacancy, an electron from a higher energy level may fall into the vacancy, resulting in a release of energy. Although sometimes this energy is released in the form of an emitted photon, the energy can also be transferred to another electron, which is ejected from the atom. This second ejected electron is called an Auger electron.[2]

Upon ejection the kinetic energy of the Auger electron corresponds to the difference between the energy of the initial electronic transition and the ionization energy for the electron shell from which the Auger electron was ejected. These energy levels depend on the type of atom and the chemical environment in which the atom was located. Auger electron spectroscopy involves the emission of Auger electrons by bombarding a sample with either X-rays or energetic electrons and measures the intensity of Auger electrons as a function of the Auger electron energy. The resulting spectra can be used to determine the identity of the emitting atoms and some information about their environment. Auger recombination is a similar Auger effect which occurs in semiconductors. An electron and electron hole (electron-hole pair) can recombine giving up their energy to an electron in the conduction band, increasing its energy. The reverse effect is known as impact ionization.

The name "Auger effect" comes from one of its discoverers, Pierre Victor Auger, and not from the similarly-named device, the auger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auger_electrons


@sparks

Hey sparks, I'm not clear on exactly what you are saying, maybe you can elaborate on what you mean.  What would be the difference in mass conversion in conductor vs. semiconductor?

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #145 on: May 14, 2008, 11:53:24 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #146 on: May 15, 2008, 05:56:28 AM »
   @Fenyman

     I believe that if the whole atomic structure is considered as mass in the e=mc2 equation the electron hop from energy shell to energy shell represents a mass to energy conversion and vice versa.  We know that all atoms will fill their valence shell anyway they can.  The best conductors at natural temperatures all have 7 protons.  Copper Silver Gold.  This is because in order to fill their octet they need just one more electron. This electron is loosely bound in a magnetic dipole up down relationship with the rest of the electrons in the valence shells.  A change in the external magnetic field will influence the magnetic dipole moments of these eigth magnetically captured electrons.  When the magnetic dipole moments of these eighth electrons shift in response to the magnetic field change,  the up down bond with the 7th electron is broken and there is a shift in the valence shell orbitals.  A very minor shift but enough of a change in the atomic mass to plug into e=mc2.  Once the whole magnetic dipole moments of the rest of the atom adjusts to the new impressed magnetic field #8 settles back into an atomically dictated orbital.  But #8 took off first before the rest of the atomic mass could catch up.  So at any given moment or magnetic field situation coppers atomic weight is changing.  Lot easier then expending energy fighting the covalent electron sharing in carbon.

Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #147 on: May 15, 2008, 07:18:51 AM »
From Naudin's experiments it's clear that the stronger the B-field the higher the power output.
What function does the B-field serve?
My understanding is that the magnetic field from pole to pole
redirects the beta particles towards the toroidal were it's collected.
Similar to the way the yoke of a TV set directs the electrons to strike the screen at just the right place.
So the higher the B-field the more beta is forced into the toroidal.

Do I understand this correctly?

If so then perhaps setting up a B-fields at each opening of the toroidal could direct all the beta into the toroid.
Or perhaps we could use the yoke off an old TV set to do some very interesting things with the beta.
I was trying to find out which pole of the magnet repels beta north or south, anyone know the answer?

As for Naudin using the thorated tungsten rods;
from looking up thorium, I understand it's not the thorium that produces the gamma
but the other isotopes it produces on decay.
In any case the tungsten rods worked well for Naudin and they are relatively inexpensive and easy to get.
At $7 a piece if you don't burn them up they will last a lifetime.

sulake

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #148 on: May 15, 2008, 09:45:48 AM »
....1. From Naudin's experiments it's clear that the stronger the B-field the higher the power output.
2. What function does the B-field serve?
3. My understanding is that the magnetic field from pole to pole
redirects the beta particles towards the toroidal were it's collected.
Similar to the way the yoke of a TV set directs the electrons to strike the screen at just the right place.
So the higher the B-field the more beta is forced into the toroidal.
If so then perhaps setting up a B-fields at each opening of the toroidal could direct all the beta into the toroid.

My personal point of view on this...

1. Yes correct. Departing particles (photon, electron etc.) may have different speeds. The higher the speed is, the higher B-field is needed to capture the particle. Or to hold it inside the coil. Just like a rocket trying leave earths gravity field.

2. Capture departing or radiating particles and guide them to the carbon rod where the period of decay ends, and electrons are added to the current flow, increasing it.

3. What is it with these toroids!?! This is not a TPU of any kind. Many many devices (amplifiers etc.) have toroidal transformers. Those are good because they don't have allmost at all external magnetic field and they are very efficient. Toroidal transformer can not capture particles unless they hit straight to it, because no external mag. field.
This toroidal transformer is in Naudin's VSG setup only for measurement purposes! It does not give out power, but merely a small signal that can be measured with oscilloscope.

(http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1323444_vmilh/notatpu.jpg)

Offline Ww.We

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Re: Single circuits generate nuclear reactions
« Reply #149 on: May 15, 2008, 10:29:40 AM »
@sparks

Are You suggesting that we should try gold/silver/copper instead of carbon? The same setup, just switch the reaction-element to one of these conductors?

@sulake

Give us a clue on what would be the best suggested coil. A spherical coil perhaps?
Or a tube?

 

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