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Author Topic: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications  (Read 35761 times)

Offline plengo

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Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« on: November 10, 2012, 11:53:29 PM »
There are many joule ringers/thiefs in the market and off course I have to start my own thread on the subject.


Following a good conversation with a fella from Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9h44yOReQA&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp) I decided to pursue his designs.


I think this example on the video shows what intuition can do when properly apply. Mind is an incredible device that when we let it do its job, it does wonders.


In this video we have a kind of Joule thief design with a very interesting added second transistor and 2 potentiometer to control the voltage on the base of the transistors, and with that I think there is a unique characteristic that I have not seen in any other device, specially with "Sohei" (if he wants to disclose his name, he is free for that) clever thinking.


I would like to open discussions and experiments towards this variation and possible improvement to power real world lights with very , very little input power.


Fausto.


ps: this V4 is just to show that I seen so far 3 variations of Joule Thief and many forums but I think this one here from Sohei is unique ( I could be wrong - so forgive me for doing that ).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 03:54:50 AM by plengo »

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 02:55:48 AM »
What two transistors?

LM317 is adjustable voltage regulator, apparently fed from the PC power supply. I don't see it, maybe it's in the PC ps box.
L7812CV is fixed 12-volt positive voltage regulator, TO-220 package, on the small heatsink, at the left side of the breadboard near the filter capacitors.

The only transistor I see is the TO-3 device, presumably 2n3055, sticking in the breadboard.

There's another one in the left background tie-wrapped upside down to a heatsink but I don't think that one is connected.

Why he's using 2 voltage regulators at the same voltage, in series... is a little strange. Normally you want to supply a 78-series VR with a little more voltage than its regulated output. If you give a 7812 only 12 volts input, it's not going to regulate very well.

The second potentiometer in the video looks to me like it's just in series with the 7s4p LED bank, or perhaps rigged as potentiometer (across C and E of transistor, with wiper feeding LEDs, other end of LEDs to E of transistor). Is there a complete schematic somewhere I can look at?

I've built a few variants of LaserSaber's circuit myself. My favorite ones light up a small neon on an input of ONE volt from a depleted AAA battery.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 02:13:57 PM »
Hmm,
in the video he said he put 4 rows in parallel of 7 LEDs in series over the collector-emitter
of the transistor...

So where is the second transistor ?

Any circuit diagramm ?

I just played yeasterday night with a Joule Ringer and Joule Thief to build
myself a low voltage supply for an LED to show my new selfmade battery,,,
but have not yet got to make a new video out of it.

Must still tune it all a bit and look via my scope to it....

But with my more powerful Joule RInger I could light up an 28 Watts 230 Volts halogen bulb
alsready about a quarter  brightness with around 11 Volts and 0.88 amps input.

Have been using some kind of Metglas or iron tape core from an electronic dollar store...

Regards, STefan.


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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 02:13:57 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2012, 03:33:30 PM »
I think there's no second transistor.

The only things on the breadboard are the 7812 regulator (could be mistaken for transistor) and the TO-3 device which is probably a 2n3055. The 7s4p bank of extra LED is, I think, connected between emitter and collector of this transistor. One potentiometer is on the base of this transistor as normal, the other potentiometer is hooked to the bank of extra LEDs, either as a simple variable dropping resisor in series, or as a potentiometer across the C-E, with wiper feeding LEDs at one end and other end of LEDs connected to emitter or circuit ground.

Offline plengo

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2012, 03:55:44 PM »
Hey guys,


thanks for shime-ing in.


Sorry, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLYr9f9Mfc&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp) he does uses 2 transistor which is very unique configuration (at least for me). I will show an schematic as soon as he allows me (I am not sure if it is his design completely or a variation that is already on the forum).


The uniques of the design is very shown on this video where you can see that he is controlling 2 pots to get the flow of energy distributed and at the same time reducing the amount of input power.


140+ LEDs with 12v and 80ma is very unique to me. Specially when the LEDS are fully bright. Don't you think?


Fausto.

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2012, 03:55:44 PM »
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Offline sohei

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2012, 06:50:02 PM »
Greetings @all.

I am a newbie in here and also into the electronics world. I am just a very very curious man with my mind full of ideas.
Fausto convinced me to write and share my mistakes and my learning process, so here I am.

Yes, indeed on the video I am using an L7812 to regulate at 12v the Vin coming from a L317. I was using an very old potentiometer that was hard to keep the voltage, it was floating a lot. But with this build, 2 transistors, I was able to drive an empty 9w CFL with no circuit inside from 13v down to 5v, and the CFL was still bright enough to have enough light.

http://youtu.be/f7bZbdOErFY

This is the video with the details of the boxed SJR. I am still learning, I may have made few mistakes on this one. I am leaning by myself and by all of you that share your knowledge too.

Thank you Fausto.
Best regards to all.
Max

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 08:11:56 PM »
Hey guys,


thanks for shime-ing in.


Sorry, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLYr9f9Mfc&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp) he does uses 2 transistor which is very unique configuration (at least for me). I will show an schematic as soon as he allows me (I am not sure if it is his design completely or a variation that is already on the forum).


The uniques of the design is very shown on this video where you can see that he is controlling 2 pots to get the flow of energy distributed and at the same time reducing the amount of input power.


140+ LEDs with 12v and 80ma is very unique to me. Specially when the LEDS are fully bright. Don't you think?


Fausto.
Well, that's not the version that was in the first video you linked. This one does show 2 x 2n3055 transistors. I've looked at the image at 0:18 of the circuit in the box, traced it out as best I could (the connection to the transformer's "red" wires is unclear")  and it looks to me like the transistors are in strict parallel, with separate base potentiometer-fixed R for each one, and also an LED indicator running off the base pot for each transistor. There's a power "on" LED and a power switch.
I'd like to probe around in that circuit with a scope. Unfortunately all my 2n3055s are busy at the moment...  I've got one lighting a 90 volt neon NE-2 brightly on 0.84 volts input from a dead AAA battery in front of me right now ....

12 V 80 mA is nearly a whole Watt of input power. Divide that up by 140 LEDs and that gives almost 7 mW per LED average. A white LED can get pretty bright on 7 mW straight DC, but what's actually happening is that the LEDs are being pulsed with higher voltage at short on-times and high frequency. They can appear even brighter that way, than when driven by straight DC at the same average power.

It's a neat circuit and there is a lot of light there. I am curious enough about the effect of the two parallel (if they are parallel) transistors to want to build and explore this myself.

Maybe set it up in that simple Farnell circuit sim.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 08:11:56 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 12:45:28 AM »
Note that I added pictures to the first post with more details about his design variation.

Fausto.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 01:19:14 AM »
Note that I added pictures to the first post with more details about his design variation.

Fausto.
Yep, that first one called "circuit_small" is just what I drew out from the video image at 0:18 of the boxed version under construction. Much neater than my drawing of course. The third pot varying the brightness of the 7s4p LED bank wasn't visible to me though so it got left out from my drawing.
So the power transistors are in parallel collector arrangement, both driving the same coil. That is interesting and like I said I'd like to look at the resulting waveforms, especially if the two transistors can be made to oscillate at different phases/frequencies.
Thanks for posting that schematic.
The further ones look like bridge rectifiers working off of line current to provide a DC source for a bunch of LEDs.
Lighting the CFL brightly  is the best result, I think. I have trouble with that, unless I disconnect one of the wires to the CFL and just use one wire. Then my CFLs light OK, on very low voltage inputs. But I'd like to get that kind of brightness on under 3 volts, and so far, no can do.
Got to get me some more power transistors!

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 01:19:14 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 12:55:47 AM »
Hi All,
the latest video of Sohei is pretty interesting !

have a look  here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHhV4qutyA


He seems to have a power  amplification effect  with the coils being
counter-parallel winded !

Regards, Stefan.

Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 08:51:23 AM »
Hi All,
the latest video of Sohei is pretty interesting !

have a look  here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHhV4qutyA


He seems to have a power  amplification effect  with the coils being
counter-parallel winded !

Regards, Stefan.

I have similar effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBY4aop9XFg

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 08:51:23 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 10:18:38 AM »
Hi scratchrobot,

I wonder how the current taken from the 9V battery changes when you introduce the second coil with the yellow LED? Have you checked it or could you check it?

Thanks, Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 11:02:18 AM »
Very nice, I love the tiny size ! You could conceal the transmitting coil just about anywhere.... much more compact than my system.



Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 05:14:43 PM »
Hi scratchrobot,

I wonder how the current taken from the 9V battery changes when you introduce the second coil with the yellow LED? Have you checked it or could you check it?

Thanks, Gyula

Made another video, when i put on the first coil amp draw drops but with second coil it goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs

Very nice, I love the tiny size ! You could conceal the transmitting coil just about anywhere.... much more compact than my system.

Thanks, i was thinking maybe i can put a coil in my mobile phone and charge it this way  :)

Offline plengo

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Re: Joule Ringer V4 and practical applications
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 05:52:20 PM »
Made another video, when i put on the first coil amp draw drops but with second coil it goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs

Thanks, i was thinking maybe i can put a coil in my mobile phone and charge it this way  :)


Very good video. Would you be able to repeat it but this time spin the coil 180 so we can see if the effect is still there?


Fausto.

 

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