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Author Topic: Mr.Clean's Device  (Read 42792 times)

Offline verpies

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Mr.Clean's Device
« on: November 09, 2012, 09:37:25 PM »
Below please find a link to a video of Mr.Clean's Device who claims that it is self-running.
http://youtu.be/mzE-p0GJb_Q

The preliminary schematic diagram is attached below.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 05:11:44 AM by verpies »

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Mr.Clean's Device
« on: November 09, 2012, 09:37:25 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 10:41:50 PM »
That's the circuit diagram?

And then he disconnects the two +12 volt battery terminals, right?

And the square wave input is still coming in... right? Or is it disconnected too?
Does this come from a function generator, or what? 

Whatever it's coming from it will be putting some power into the system through the base-emitter circuits of the transistors, I think.

Where is the output light emitter, and where are the instruments hooked up?

People often only show one lead coming from the FG or signal source for some reason, as if it wasn't important where the other one is hooked up.
If the input is coming from, say, a Function Generator's typical output clipleads, then the "black" lead or "-" or "ground" is connected to the circuit's ground. From the Pin 3 of a 555 timer... ditto, the timer's ground must be common with the circuit's ground. This forms a current path. If the ground reference leads of some other, line-connected instrument like an unisolated oscilloscope is connected elsewhere in the circuit... now you have a ground-loop that might also carry power into the circuit from the FG or even from the mains.

Anyhow, thanks for the diagram so far.... A 2n2222a might work for the first stage, I hope.... since I've got a box full of them.

Offline poynt99

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 03:58:01 AM »
Base-Emitter junction of Q1-->Base-Collector junction of Q2 (is not reverse-biased like it normally would be with a positive voltage at the collector).

So the FG output is easily driving the coils to some degree.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 03:58:01 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 04:33:35 AM »
It looks like Mr. Clean has disconnected merely the positive pole of the battery alone, from the video, and that the negative battery pole remains attached to the circuit. Does the schematic ground indicate an Earth ground as well? Is it plausible that ground currents may account for the effect? Irregardless, this has to be the most exciting video of all time.

Offline verpies

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 05:29:15 AM »
That's the circuit diagram?
I blindly drew this schematic diagram from the links that Mr. Clean provided.  See here.
I did not analyze it yet.

And then he disconnects the two +12 volt battery terminals, right?
It looks like he is disconnecting only the positive terminal of the battery, leaving the negative terminal connected.

And the square wave input is still coming in... right? Or is it disconnected too?
Does this come from a function generator, or what? 
From what I understand the ≈1kHz waveform comes from that 555 astable multivibrator and the LM393 comparator that is powered by the device itself.  See the updated diagram in my 1st post.

P.S.
The toroidal cores are from Digikey#, part number: 495-3845-ND.
As far as I understand, those cores have been scored with a Dremel tool and broken in half with a hammer.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 05:29:15 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 05:33:02 AM »
I think it is a result of input power from somewhere. It's only exciting to those who have not seen similar things
or to those who believe in energy from nowhere.

In this video I show a similar thing, but I tracked the cause down to an inverter running from a separate battery in the bank.
the inverter battery (commercial inverter) was grounded and when I moved it away from the battery my circuit was attached to the effect faded with distance.

At about 4:30 in the video I disconnect the input power to the circuit and the noise continues, enough to light an LED. I think it had something to do with the old scope as well.
I have a new one now. Anyway it wasn't free energy or zipon's. The voltage was about 13.5 volts. When I shot the video I was still investigating it. I lit the LED with it later then
discovered the battery thing after that. It was strange but that is why the clever guys like Tinsel Koala and the likes are here to help work through these things. I had to work it
out for myself. But my first impression was confusion not excitement. Just because we can take a lead of the battery or capacitor does not mean there is no input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-rsdt28Ajk

And here is another clip showing the AC noise from ground to a circuit. Of course at the time I knew a lot less than I do now, mainly because no guru's foul my head now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fktgj8pUlds

I childishly classified the scope shot as an animal capture, because it looked like a tick or some kind of parasitic insect.  :D


Cheers

P.S. This is how things get out of hand, someone notices something strange and gets excited then a whole heap of other people who don't understand get excited and reinforce the original persons excitement. Then it is difficult to take the truth because of all the expectations hope and belief. Many experimenters need to learn to determine power before making claims, until then they should present their findings without the problem of everyone hyping them up. Then it can be investigated in an unbiased way.
If it is proved to be extra output energy then that is very cool, but I doubt it. For it to come out it must go in.


..

Offline verpies

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 05:39:14 AM »
Just because we can take a lead of the battery or capacitor does not mean there is no input.
Yes, that is why I drew that schematic diagram.

If Mr. Clean responds and corrects this schematic then we will be able to properly evaluate the power isolation of this circuit after the disconnection of that positive battery terminal.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 05:39:14 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline verpies

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 05:46:21 AM »
Does the schematic ground indicate an Earth ground as well?
Not at all.

Sign up to this forum thread and motivate Mr. Clean to correct/supplement the schematic diagram and add the Earth ground to it (if there is any).

If Mr. Clean writes where the Earth ground is connected, then I can draw it.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 06:53:05 AM »
Thanks, verpies... that accounts for the similarity of the schematic with the ignition coil driver in the linked page! Identical except for the 100R in series with the oscillator feed.

That oscillator circuit is handy too. Ah, I don't have the comparator chip on hand but I'll bet about any op amp would do the job at 1 kHz.

I hope MrClean will also show where all the instruments are connected, both "probe" and ground references. I've had a similar experience myself like Farmhand describes. Disconnect a battery lead and the (whatever) keeps running...... and then find that it's being powered thru the scope ground shields looping back thru the mains ground pin to another instrument's chassis ground and then back to the circuit somehow.....

Ah, the suspense is killing me.
 ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 06:53:05 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 07:00:40 AM »
I blindly drew this schematic diagram from the links that Mr. Clean provided.  See here.
I did not analyze it yet.
It looks like he is disconnecting only the positive terminal of the battery, leaving the negative terminal connected.
From what I understand the ≈1kHz waveform comes from that 555 astable multivibrator and the LM393 comparator that is powered by the device itself.  See the updated diagram in my 1st post.

P.S.
The toroidal cores are from Digikey#, part number: 495-3845-ND.
As far as I understand, those cores have been scored with a Dremel tool and broken in half with a hammer.

OK, thanks,  I see the two circuits together, but I don't see how power is supposed to get to the oscillator section (or the power section either) if they are disconnected from the +12 and +9v sources . I mean... if the toroid is powering the thing, how is it that power from the toroids is somehow making it all the way back thru the power section to make the oscillator work if it is disconnected from the +9 V? It would seem that for the oscillator to work, _something_ would have to be happening at its power input points: it must be getting power into these points from somewhere. But if the circuitry isn't there....then how?
I can believe in miracles, but please.... just one at a time.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 08:34:57 AM »
Just as a note for those that haven't seen the video yet it appeared he was using a pocket type digital o-scope.  For now I would assume that's isolated either running on battery or through a wall wort so very likely not a source of power or voltage difference between that any other devices like the sig gen - which I'm fairly certain he said was a DIY unit as seen in the left part of verpies schematic.  I'm going to take another look at the vid to see if I can pin down answers to any of those ???'s.  But as much stuff as Mr. clean builds I would think he would be aware of the more obvious things.  I'm hoping he didn't miss anything obvious anyway as it would be great to finally see some clear replicatable proof of something that just about anyone can build and show a self running circuit.   I wanna' see TK's head explode trying to explain it all away ....   LOL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 08:34:57 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 01:33:30 PM »
I don't see how power is supposed to get to the oscillator section (or the power section either) if they are disconnected from the +12 and +9v sources . I mean... if the toroid is powering the thing, how is it that power from the toroids is somehow making it all the way back thru the power section to make the oscillator work if it is disconnected from the +9 V?
I do not know how the device is looped.
I do not have answers to rest of these questions. but Mr.Clean does.

I just copied the schematics available at these links he provided. 
A separate +9V power rail probably does not even exist in Mr.Clean's device.
I just drew +V9 and +12V because that's what was shown at the links that Mr.Clean provided.

Once the author verifies or corrects this schematic, your questions and objections will make a lot of sense.

Offline verpies

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 01:52:51 PM »
Thanks, verpies... that accounts for the similarity of the schematic with the ignition coil driver in the linked page! Identical except for the 100R in series with the oscillator feed.
Yes, it is not a coincidence.
The 100Ω resistor in series with the oscillator feed is present in the lower diagram  (the one with the 4 transistors 2N3055), so I monkey'd it from there because without a resistor at the base of the BFY51 transistor, it would blow up.

That oscillator circuit is handy too. Ah, I don't have the comparator chip on hand but I'll bet about any op amp would do the job at 1 kHz.
It would.

I hope MrClean will also show where all the instruments are connected, both "probe" and ground references.
Of Course.
Once the component values and wiring are verified - I will add the measurement devices as well.

I've had a similar experience myself like Farmhand describes. Disconnect a battery lead and the (whatever) keeps running...... and then find that it's being powered thru the scope ground shields looping back thru the mains ground pin to another instrument's chassis ground and then back to the circuit somehow.....
That's all possible, except for the power from the oscilloscope which seems to be a battery operated, pocket-sized unit.

Offline poynt99

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 02:42:27 PM »
The bottom line is; is his function generator powered from an external source?

If it is, then the circuit is receiving power from the function generator (assuming it is connected), via the b-e junction of Q1, and the b-c junction of Q2.

Offline crazycut06

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Re: Mr.Clean's Device
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 03:26:18 PM »
I've watched the video again and saw the yellow clip connected from the 5watt resistor going to the cap bank and the green clip connected to the common ground! Thats why he still got power for the trafo, he thought he disconnected the cap bank via the black wire to the common ground but misses the green clip still connected to the neg of the battery i think, im not discouraging any body, but telling what i think...see for your self if im mistaken...correct me if im wrong...  ;D

 

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