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New Battery systems => Crystal batteries => Topic started by: plengo on October 29, 2012, 11:08:15 PM

Title: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 29, 2012, 11:08:15 PM
During my research into Crystal Cell batteries I found some interesting effects. One being that a particular crystal cell seams to never end its available output power or energy.


It is not much power but it is there and therefore is worthy the study and hopefully its scaling to a larger size.


I will provide in this thread some experiments I have been doing and the data I have collected. It is a lot of data so I will have to simplify and reduce its size so that it will make sense to those who are interested in the pursue of this field.


There are two kinds of Crystal Cells I have been working. One is the Magnesium (Mg) cell and the other is the Lead (Pb) cell. Both are using common materials that one can find either at home or easily purchase at ebay or other vendors.


Most of the material is non toxic to manipulation although one should never put it in the eyes, open wounds or mouth , so caution is advised.


The Magnesium cells do have corrosion but it is reduced to the level that makes this kind of cell very usable (I have cells running over one year now) and if the power output comes down, you just add water (distilled is better) and the cell will improve its output power until next watering.


The Lead/Alum cell is different in the sense that it is very useful as a replacement for regular car batteries and high current load devices. This cell can be used by charging using conventional means (charges, solar charges and so on) but the effect I am finding out is when this cell is used without any input of power, in other words, use this cell after is has lost ALL ITS INPUT POWER and it will continue providing power indefinitely.


Although the power provided is small, if properly scaled (which I am still pursuing that process), one could extract very usable power to power small loads such as LEDs, small oscillator and lower power devices.


I will very soon be posting videos, charts, data and procedures.



Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 08, 2012, 07:20:14 PM
if one follows the crystal cell research done by me, Bedini (at the Energetic Forum and his new forum), IBpointless2 and many others, one will start to see a pattern concerning those cells.


Cells can be big and small. The big ones (which I have been testing more than extensively) can store lots of joules per mass, while the small ones can not.


The big cells usually have water or liquids in its electrolyte while the small cells tend to be dry or electrostatic in nature (whatever electrostatic really is).


The big cells with liquids do present what I am finding out about their internal self-regenerating energy, which IBpointless2 has demonstrated many times. The criticism is that IBs  cells don't present current, which is true but to a certain degree.


The big cells can present current BUT you must put it there yourself so no gain by itself. The gain is becoming evident to many when using it and performing the load test - charge and discharge curves.  When doing that exercise one will notice that sometimes we have a gain in total amount of energy from the cell compared to the amount of energy input from us.


It is debatable for many but for me it is self-evident after testing hundreds of times and hundreds of hours continuously repeating the effect.


So, there are two effect at play here. One is the self-regenerating energy that any crystal cell has, small but it is there beyond a shadow of a doubt. The other is the storage efficiency of the big cells.


Now, what causes the cells at their intrinsic level to extract energy from the environment? very simple, they are antennas of sorts. The small cell cannot store much but can restore itself quickly, or better, quicker than the bigger mass cell. Why? because they are dry.


Water or liquids will prevent this static nature and convert it to another form of energy which in the big cells is a galvanic process or in other words, an exchange of "ions" through the medium and sometimes to the expense of the electrodes, but it does not have to be that way.


I do have cells that have been running for over an year providing good amount of light and power in a not related way to galvanic or destructive process. I say that because after doing hundreds of cells and tests, it becomes clear that one can control, to a certain extend, the rate of corrosion of the electrodes. It is very difficult to stop the process of corrosion with water present.


The smalls cells that are dry do not have the corrosion or galvanic process present because of the "transformation process" (liquid electrolyte) not being present.


The process now is to find a ration of small enough cell that can restore itself FASTER than the usual so that one can indeed have a constant output power. Peltier effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect)) are just like that but more sensitive to temperature.

I have cells that present a small amount of power totally dry without corrosion, but very small power. One must build many in series and parallel to get anywhere besides the cells have a tendency to normalize their output power based on the presence of another neighbor cell which only increases the complexity of the problem.


The static nature of the small dry crystal cell can be scaled up. Area surface is the first level. Another would be electrodes with proper "insulation" or "covering the surface" with elements that are excellent insulators  of electric voltage "radiation". Tesla stressed that extensively in his high voltage coils when he talks about voltage break down of the insulators of the coils.


Small cells have the benefit that they are small so less material necessary.


Using the technique of "oxidized layers" on top of the electrodes do help with the cost of increase internal resistance and diminished flow of current BUT excellent recovery process of its internal energy stored which again is very small storage space so the small cell presents small amounts of power but one can scale to have it large enough to run small loads such as LEDs.


Now, one not so obvious relation that exists on the small dry cells is that they are EXTREMELY sensitive to the external load behavior. Which means that adding a kind of "Oscillator" or device that has variable internal resistance also can be in synchronicity with the internal resistance of the crystal cell and therefore have an exponential increase in energy output but simply having them, the cell and the load, talking the same "Language" or working in sync (resonance).


Peltier are doing just that, they are using the differential in temperature as its load. The external energy we extract is just free for the taking but what makes it happen is the temperature differential being the "load itself". So the Peltier cell can convert one form of energy into another without corroding.


My next experiment has been in finding that combination of insulation, resistance (or conductivity) and store power for the next generation of crystal cells.


If you are interested in running experiments and trying to scale this up, come and participate. This is an amazing complex field of research and very doable by "monkey scientists" such as me and many others.


Since I am the moderator, I will advice to focus on the subject because I will simply delete what is not relevant if that becomes necessary.


Again, very soon I will be posting more info and data and my findings.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 10, 2012, 02:29:38 AM
Hi Plengo!


Great to see you still working on crystal cells!  :)


If you don't mind I might post some of my finding's here.


I think I've found a way to keep from adding water to alum cells but still allow them to have high amps.


So much testing, so little time.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 10, 2012, 05:56:52 AM
Hey IB,


you are welcome. So let's thinker together.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2012, 04:12:31 AM

In my pursue to protect the Magnesium electrode I thought the following, water seams to be essential for power to manifest, in excess diminishes the effect (current and voltage and low internal resistance), too little also diminishes the effect, in equilibrium, effect is permanent.


Although having the water and being able to control the output of power one looses the electrode by normally known as galvanic or chemical reaction or destructive reaction, all meaning that something is to be lost, in my case, Magnesium.  Other metals perform very little different with the exception of the rate of corrosion, i prefer call it, oxidation artifact.


Alum has presented the benefit of increase the power and not be in the way of electric flow of energy. It is also a crystal that grows strongly, unfortunately it will completely react or cause to react with the Magnesium, WHEN both are in a liquid contact.


First test was to crystallize a layer of Alum, Epson salts and MnO2. Alum will "eat" the Mg and at that same place MnO2 will react and absorb the leaving Hydrogen (I hope my chemistry is hearting you) while being much heavier in a liquid solution (MnO2+H) of the above components, it sediments on the new about to Oxidize "hole" caused by the reaction of Alum + Mg, and doing that it no longer allows Alum to react with that space again, BUT , MnO2 will not stop Alum of growing above it. This layer above Mg is conductive. I am also experimenting other formulas for that layer like for example, adding Iron Pyrite to it, decreasing then the "internal resistance" of the whole cell.


Epson salts at a longer term provides Water molecules to the starving crystal mix but in high bonds with solids therefore not visible to Mg.


The crystallization process worked very well. Mg became impermeable to water at that area but with a little problem, to form a good crystalline layer it would take me way too long, so I accelerated the test for preliminary results. It is impermeable to a very low density of water. Too much water would eventually destroy the layer and cause eventually the electrode to be corroded.


At very little water density at that area, electric conduction is very good, around 2 ma per 2 cm Square at a nominal voltage of 1 v.


The other electrodes (Copper, Nickel, Lead) seams to not present ANY corrosion or side effects, specially coins of 1 cent from 1979 or older. Copper seams to get darker but no sediments neither sulfates (blues and greens), just dirty and still very conductive. Lead no visible distinctions.


Results so far are encouraging. Crystallizing the surface of the Mg would be very interesting if achieved since it would create a conductive layer that retains water in "dry form" (Alum).


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 22, 2012, 04:16:17 AM
Today I had opportunity to see a pattern on my cells. Previously (In some of my videos #35 or so) I demonstrated the capability of the cell to have its own energy re-generated at any time at any rate, it is limited in that particular experiment but it is there and I can not kill it. Only by destruction of the whole physical cell.


They do present to have an ability to extract energy from some place and use that for their own benefit, crystal grow and in doing that they provide extra power for us to extract.


I was extracting very little for the, our desires, but nonetheless they do present free energy so to speak. IN  large scale I can easily see fruitful applications for it, but first we must learn and than learn in how to do it.


So little power that I almost desired a new direction or other more intense project but than I realized the same test under a totally different combination of metals. I was working with Lead/Alum before, now I decide to test against Alum/Magnesium, not in the sense of my carbon/sand/alum/Mg cells. They are working very well btw, I have many all over the house illuminating my favorite spots, all I do is remember them and give water, like plants.


Tell your wife, honey I have a plant too - it's a crystal cell in front of the pictures of the kids that every night I see and remember why I am working on this field AFTER my professional day pay with no pay for this extra work of mine.


With the Magnesium/Alum/MnO2/Epson Salts cell, under starving condition, meaning, little water, very little, they are ALSO presenting that same effect of the Lead/Alum never extinguishing  In the exact same manner, same response to switching from "UnderLoad to Resting", and repeat this to infinity.


They are presenting the same free energy effect, still in small scale, but much higher density, now in 8 ma at 0.05 v under short load (resistor less than 2 ohm - the wire).


Small quantity of water, means much less corrosion, whatever left that still corrodes. The cell returns a substantial usable amount of power to light LEDs now, not much, but much better than before and I say, much, much better.


If I apply this technique to my existing 8 months and 1+ year old cells, they will provide much more power.


The pattern is the same: Voltage goes UP as the cell rests, longer time doing that, higher voltage she reaches.  Many short "times" of rest, but more frequently ALSO work, and works with an accelerated effect. Current diminishes as voltage goes higher. Current diminishes in a much SLOWER rate than normally used without interruption, so much slower that I would say they are giving even more current over time that she could possibly give. Overall integration of power output IS big if given enough time and considering no input energy used.


With Magnesium cell and the same process, I am having a few orders of magnitude of improvement over my previous experiment. Off course Mg is much more sensitive to corrosion, but also improves the performance of the cell, controlling the water content of that precious surface is a must, a secret that I am uncovering in how to do it.


It is not about stopping 100% the contact with H20 and Mg, it is about extracting as much as possible of the "free energy" part that those cells give.


If I can find a combination of metals that would give me 12 volts difference when combined, what do you think I would do next? Now, imagine this cell under a controlled circuit that DOES give a very high input of voltage source to this cell, without allow any current to pass? The cell will give an enormous amount of current from non-where, since there is no current, no galvanic reaction of ANY kind (for a case where the whole electrolyte and metals used do not corrode each other without an agent - like Sulfuric acid and Lead for example), but now, I am passing over myself.


The cell is giving me 8 ma at .05v without loosing the amount of corrosion caused by one drop of water. The metal is very dry or very little humid, very little corrosion if any. And turning it on and off many times, the voltage of the cell INCREASES until current stops of existing which I could not find yet, that end.


Adding water AGAIN repeats the whole process again until 10 days have passed. One more drop of water and there she goes, another 10 days or more giving me that energy with the cost of 2 drops of water now. And so on.


Why the voltage increases like that? That is a strong electric field that must be moving something or causing something to move, I think, current would be one, and than, she stores that current somewhere, Where? in the crystals themselves. That's why they grow, energy storage, so silly me.


They are breathing capacitors and the longs muscles (Pulmonary) are the environment.


They don't like to be in series and neither in parallel BUT they perform very well when in parallel with parallel Loads. They do add voltage linearly but their internal resistance are limiting to the allowed current over all of the cells, which limits their series topology to high power usage and becomes very useful at small devices.


Distribution of moist over the protected surface of Mg will be very important in future improvements. Ah I almost forgot, Mg gives a good power ratio output, Lead does but if you put energy in first, which other metals will have a better output ratio of energy? If you know, let me know please.


Crystals grow over the surface of Mg seams to be key in this relation of voltage and stored energy. Crystals grow dry, but I think the water is inside them when they "dry" and become hard like a rock. Why water ionize things? Is not that the culture?


but I can measure current in a rock of iron pyrite. I think water helps but it is not the necessary ingredient of providing a mean of energy flow. Where is the energy is coming from when they are starved of energy?


I am starting to see the crystal cells like capacitors with little wheels inside them spinning and creating energy that is stored in the capacitor itself. They are very small capacitors. Different crystals, different densities and relationship, more in parallel, less in series and different combinations of those in layers.


They have a difference of potential provided by the two electrodes, in my case now - Mg and Copper/Nickel, and so energy is attracted to them and they store it. When we close the loop, we extract it from the cells, and the cycle repeats to as long as we have the metals, electrolytes and water.


Fausto.














Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 25, 2012, 03:01:29 AM
Today I had excellent progress with the dry cells. Using a different formula and iron pyrite I could make a cell increase voltage and current given as she forms from the moment of conception (been created and put together) to until hours later under load via switching technique.


It is very clear in the graph below that the cell is decreasing her output power up to middle point of the graph where she than start to present the voltage increase I mention in my videos and written. Even as she dries 100% she is already presenting the phenomena.


Time will tell if this behavior continues. Now she is giving under 100 ohm load, .380v (380 milivolts) at 3.5miliAmps. When I let her rest during the switching, her voltage is increasing, clearly shown by the end of the graph.


I think that as the cell drys under load and under relaxation (time I let her rest without any load) the crystal structure formed inside between the two electrodes grows with a certain disposition for allowing flow of electricity energy and at the same time static alignment that creates voltage, therefore, causing a following current too.

This is becoming a little weird concept to explain but I will try.  I think as the cell absorbs he water and converts it into energy available for external use, a change happens in the molecular level. One is the corrosion that we all know, other is solidification of its physical structure, another is the flow of energy caused by corrosion to flow through that physical structure that is solidifying.


When solidifying that structure presents a perfect flow habitat for energy to flow, after all, it was formed when the crystals could move to anywhere while energy passes (imagine a very resistor burning as current passes), the same with the cell but very small level.


This structure presents a voltage charge now freezing in time, literally, dipoles being formed and locked while the cell dries under load.

Relaxation helps simply because the "pressure" of the current is stopped and so the structure has time to adjust a little bit while drying and becoming even more effective for energy flow because of the released stress therefore less loss of strength. It is a little bit difficult to believe what I am saying but this simple theory is providing success in my research.


This new formula also has a much higher level of absorption of water than other and at the same type not liquefying in any shape but the opposite, becoming even harder. Very interesting.


Iron pyrite is an attempt to reduce internal resistance, extra protection of the magnesium and piezo properties and God knows what-else it does but it does.





Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: aaron5120 on November 25, 2012, 04:10:09 PM
Very interesting, Plengo. And good research work.
This cell may eventually power the LS JR crossover circuit, I hope.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 01, 2012, 03:55:08 PM
This cell is performing better and better every day. As I add a tiny little bit of water, it produces 50ma at .15v easily and stay there for hours.


It is a total winner. It is not 100% dry but it is so little water that I don't even think the water really gets to the Magnesium.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 02, 2012, 05:20:18 PM
I think my work is finally paying off. In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGatm42N6rA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGatm42N6rA)) I show the output power of this one cell.


You must let the cell be formed before start using it extensively. More you use it, more it gives to you back. The crystal growth is crucial and the protection of the Magnesium metal is essential.


This last formula is working better than the previous MnO2 although I still will use MnO2 in different ways. Water is the fuel, at least that is what I think.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 03, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Hi Plengo,

Nice thread

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 04, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
Last night i observed an interesting effect. I left my cell running under load for days now. Once disconnected from the load the voltage on the cell goes immediately to 1.40v and continues rising until a plato is reached and it levels down to 1.4v or 1.3v or so but stays there.


If put on load again for just a few seconds and turn of the load voltage rises to 1.67v and sometimes to even 1.8v! Again, it will reach a plato and rests at the usual 1.4/1.3v.


Another interesting effect is that when the cell is not in use or under load, all the energy that it generates is actually stored on the mix medium and it is available for use when load is attached. This gives a false impression that the cell is giving higher voltage and current while as you leave it under load it will stabilize at its "balanced state" and slowly goes down with time.


The effect of capacitance is very pronounced. I would speculate to the order of a few hundreds of thousands of micro-farads. May be a 100,000uF or even more.


Also when testing another cell that has been 100% dry and giving very little power out, when hoop up to a volt meter, it was giving not only direct current and voltage but also AC voltage, and I measure it in 2 different meters.


The substrate mix in between the plates is growing really fast and it is forcing the plates to distance apart. This is concerning since I don't want the cell to grow uncontrollably and break. I will have to come up with a formula that controls that.


Water absorption is excellent. The substrate sucks the water extremely fast and obviously helps the growth of the crystal structure. Some of the parts of the Magnesium is visible and no corrosion is visible.


I will open this cell very soon (destructive process) and see the level of corrosion if any. I am confident there will be none.


Iron pyrite cell with the same substrate mix did not perform much better, actually it increased the internal resistance, that was surprising.


I ordered Magnesium plates of 1mm and 0.9mm so that I can build a stack of those cells. The performance of this cell is phenomenal. Now it is giving .2v (point 2 volts or 200mv) and a constant 30/40 ma (mili-amps). As I add water periodically it improves more and more.


It is very obvious that water is the element that makes the crystal grow. That corroborates with my theory that the water IS the FUEL.


I will try some ideas concerning automatic controlled delivery of water to the cell so that I can lock this into a box and attach lights and possibly offer to individuals (for a small price) that are interested in pursuing this line of research.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 04, 2012, 11:45:41 PM
Plengo,
Other interesting things noted on these cells

On the Allwest crystal cell, I can hold the copper in my hand, and it will stop the Ma from going down under a load

Try putting a load on your cell and meter the amps, put your hand on the copper and I bet it does the same thing, stops the amps from going down under load, and most of the time the amps go up

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 05, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
I think this is important to note, because the bigger the load you put on these cells the hotter the cell gets and the more power it produces

Kind of a self generation of power that we can pull from 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: aaron5120 on December 05, 2012, 05:41:23 AM
I ordered Magnesium plates of 1mm and 0.9mm so that I can build a stack of those cells. The performance of this cell is phenomenal. Now it is giving .2v (point 2 volts or 200mv) and a constant 30/40 ma (mili-amps). As I add water periodically it improves more and more.

I will try some ideas concerning automatic controlled delivery of water to the cell so that I can lock this into a box and attach lights and possibly offer to individuals (for a small price) that are interested in pursuing this line of research.


Fausto.
Hi Fausto/Plengo,
Your cell seem very interesting, I wonder if they can be paralleled to produce more currents. Then you can use a DC/DC Boost Converter to up the voltage from 0.2V to 1.3V DC, if there is enough current. I know that due to the high impedance of individual cell, they cannot be stacked in series.
If you make it into a light box, then I am interested in purchasing a unit for my hobby research.
I am already retired, but still want to get some fun with FE!
aaron5120
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 06, 2012, 04:02:08 AM

Today I had a chance to create some very microscopic videos and pictures of some of the crystal formations caused by the mixes I have been using on the cells.


One just wonder how those crystal things form. I had the privilege to record from beginning to the end one full cycle of corrosion and formation of the crystal structure that freezes any interaction with the metal below, Mg. Unless excessive water is used which would not only destroy the crystals, would also initiate a corrosion process, which would be inevitable.


The crystals forms at an amazing fast pace under 0.1mm tickness and 1 cm square area, from 100% wet to totally dry and crystallized. One of my recordings I was able to see the beginning from a huge bubble to a dry structure.


I don't know what is more exciting, the study of the crystal growth or the study of one of its by-products such as electricity.


I wonder how would things flow water wise inside a tick, 1cm for example, layer of crystal with all sorts of metal trapped inside. How would water flow down with gravity? would water give off some of its "electrons" to the metals in the surroundings and product what we call electricity?


When I add water to the cell, it takes a little bit for it to manifest as more voltage and current as the layer of crystal grows, but more growth also much more run-time, off course it has more water, so would water really be going so down to the extent of touching Magnesium and corroding?


Where all the gas will go? and how can it still even grow more? from underneath? amazing pressures must develop. What about if Mg is not being corroded? how would one answer the same questions above?


So the crux of the problem is: can we really generate electricity without oxidation of the metal? I am having much more current and voltage for the same Mg(area) used than before but much, much less corrosion. This is a problem for me.


Another interesting effect is that those cells as the mass of the electrolyte crystal structure grows, more capacitance the cell has.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 07, 2012, 04:37:29 AM
Today I had the fortunate event of having this crystal cell giving .2v (200mili-Volts) with 32ma constant power.


Every time I add a few drops of water, she goes higher in voltage and current for longer and more steady run-times.


Testing the corrosion level using a very thin plate of Magnesium (like 0.1mm tick - I will update this number if it is incorrect) has been very useful. The first corrosion is substantial if maintained. After the mix dries, corrosion is extremely minimal even with added water.


The crystal formed somehow changes the surface of the Magnesium after it dries giving a very protective layer against the initial ingredients of the mix such as Alum. Once the crystal is formed, the corrosive action of Alum is eliminated and the only left corrosion noted was just distilled water and even that much more reduced.


It is as if the crystal structure as tiny as it can be, does not allow any gas to escape (or very little) and uses it for its own growth.


Water added to the surface of the cell far from the magnesium has increased the growth of the crystal and it allowed the formation of 2 kinds of crystals that I could see at naked eye.


In other mixes I was able to see many kinds of crystals formed with beautiful colors and shapes. A real crystal cell indeed.




Some of these observations are shown on my video: http://youtu.be/zUNHAkw5ONg (http://youtu.be/zUNHAkw5ONg)


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 07, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
As I was doing another video showing the performance of the cell I noticed that drop in voltage and power output of the cell when I touched and moved it. Later I realized that I pressed the cell in such a way the it decreased the thickness of height of the cell which immediately drop in power (see the last picture of my previous post). You can see the drop from 14mv to 9mv in the end right part of the graph).


Wondering about it I finally figure out what is going on. When adding water to the cell, she grows. While she is still wet and growing one should not squeeze the cell because she is still forming and that formation IS what bring the power out. One more evidence of non-corrosion process.


While she dries out and the formation is becoming more solid, the power goes UP. So again, too much water can destroy the cell temporarily since the crystal grow is the one the process the water and water is one of the mediums to grow the crystal. A double edge sword of sorts.


This goes very in line with my thinking in how those crystal cells work.


Now I am looking into more geometrical designs that can provide water at the CORRECT quantity to the cell automatically without causing this problem.


I wish I had more money and time to research this more efficient and effectively.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 09, 2012, 01:07:33 AM

and one more video showing more details about corrosion on this cell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=v0eS7ZEqp8Y


I think that there is very minimal if no corrosion.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 10, 2012, 05:56:46 PM
Plengo,

A two week test on my dry crystal cell results FYI

Amp meter and volt meter reading constant, the full two weeks (no pulse motor)

.60 MA and 61. MV, this is the low constant, it goes up from there as the temp rises

Just took the amp reading off and it goes back up in about 5 min to 1.4 volts and 3. Ma

(interesting) Not much power, but this cell never dies

Best of luck

PS, I am not sure how much power the amp meter is drawing off this cell, or how you can determine how much power we are getting constant (forever it seems)

Again, this is the lowest power reading on a dry cell no heat or water added, but if I set it in the sun or near a heat source the  power  can go as high as 200Ma

Best of luck 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 11, 2012, 01:06:52 AM
Thank you Allwest,


it does sound very right. My cells under a very low resistance load (probably in the orders of 1 ohm or less) is also showing around that low mili-voltage and that current.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 11, 2012, 06:32:09 AM
Plengo,

You really should   try

Heat on copper and cold on mag, with the size of your last crystal cell, you probably have a 2 amp cell

I think the heat is acting on the cell in two ways, thermal electric generator and piezoelectric vibration generator
Neither one of these is a galvanic reaction, if the cell stays dry 


On another idea on forming the crystals
I am thinking of an idea to try, possibly an alignment of  the crystals, possibly more power
Form the crystals within the cell with heat on copper side and cold on the mag, it may cause the crystals to form positive and negative

Just some ideas for  the cause

Best of luck   



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on December 11, 2012, 04:22:55 PM
Allwest,


excellent idea. I will try that.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 16, 2012, 11:30:26 PM
Plengo,
With some research another possible reason for heat affecting these crystal cells

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectricity

Maybe its time to try some tourmaline in the mix

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on December 31, 2012, 10:58:17 PM
Plengo,

Happy new years

How goes the battle?

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: callanan on January 01, 2013, 01:27:26 AM
Hi Plengo,

Have you seen this?

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:NRGLab_Pte._Ltd._SH_boxes

Please see the following video and note the construction from 4:07.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWXb7_33N50

Looks like a crystal cell that they claim converts ambient heat energy. They do not say or claim it is a battery.

Appears that it maybe an Aluminimium Lead Crystal Cell with 3 ingredients that form the crystal after mixing with distilled water.

Regards,

Ossie
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on January 01, 2013, 02:39:43 AM
Ossie,

Very interesting, this is the same thing I am finding with these crystal cells

Heat will generate power

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on January 01, 2013, 04:32:12 AM
Hi Plengo,

Have you seen this?

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:NRGLab_Pte._Ltd._SH_boxes (http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:NRGLab_Pte._Ltd._SH_boxes)

Please see the following video and note the construction from 4:07.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWXb7_33N50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWXb7_33N50)

Looks like a crystal cell that they claim converts ambient heat energy. They do not say or claim it is a battery.

Appears that it maybe an Aluminimium Lead Crystal Cell with 3 ingredients that form the crystal after mixing with distilled water.

Regards,

Ossie


Thank you for the video. I started laughing by 1/4 of the video. I noticed that the guy and the girl are computer generated models speaking whatever a text is programmed. I even looked into the details of the mouth, specially the male model's mouth. You can perceive the nuances of the sudden change in the region of the lips frame by frame.


It is scary what one can do today with video and technology specially when the world of "controlled media" is collapsing.


More and more we will only be able to be reliable to only observable things that we, we, will do. Everything else in any media will be all fake.


Fausto.


ps: after watching the second video I am confident it is an scam. Now, it is my personal opinion.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on January 12, 2013, 06:51:00 PM
 
 The mix does look interesting. Looks like ceramic/carbon/alum with a magnesium cup and graphite contact. The base mix is very important and the mix amounts sound right. The incubator run is to have the base mix (ceramic) setup then allowed to rest for crystal growth for 6 hours afterwards. They stack them so that the crystal growth is done under structural load while curing and growth is allowed.
 
 For the most part I think most guys don't allow for the crystal growth first. This is a very important step in doing these types of structures. If it is a very aqueous solution it will take much longer for the crystal to be built. Instead of 6 hours it could take days or weeks to fully form.
 
 I had one experiment form in the fridge over 6 months. From white powdery base to clear crystal. It took a very long time because of the lower temperature at formation time. So if you mix has a lot of water in it it will take way longer to grow the crystalline matrix we want for this type of device. No usage show be found on forming crystalline batteries till the crystalline base or structure is matured enough to handle it.
 
 This rule is evident by the statement that gets put out a lot in these types of batteries. Well it seems to get more powerful as time goes on. Well thats because it is growing internally. We must let it grow fully or near fully so it can handle a load, first and foremost. Stimulating the growth is encouraged though. Light charging effect can work wonders on helping to organize the new crystal growth. It seems to energize the forming process and bring out the strongest pathways. This is accomplished by bedini type oscillators. These tend to agitate the crystals into movement better and form stronger pathways. This can be seen in the Bedidni videos. After conditioning of the cell should come load tests or production load use.
 
 I don't know weather these cells are comparable or even if they work but you have to agree it parallels most of what you have done.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on January 15, 2013, 06:45:03 AM

Here is another crystal mix design that plays on the pyroelectric, supplies 1.85 volts and power goes up when load is applied
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CJU_sKA8U

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: stprue on January 15, 2013, 01:21:28 PM
@allwest

That's a powerful dry cell you have created.  What did the ending voltage and ma settle at?  Any chance you could share the construction details so others could replicate?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on January 20, 2013, 03:09:38 AM
This cell still needs more long term testing

If you are interested in dry cells you should check my other videos on long term cells, that still have power

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ramset on February 03, 2013, 05:10:33 PM
Tap
pm
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on February 19, 2013, 07:14:18 AM
In continuation of my research I am getting to a point where I am more and more certain I am on the correct path.


My latest cell using MnO2 + Mg + Cu + Carbon Activated + Epson salts + Distilled water is having an amazing success. Soon I will be posting more videos and results but for now let show a few weird things:


1 - when shorted the voltage and current first goes to almost zero and than climbs back to a substantial higher number (Allwest replication I think).
2 - when the cell is first make it provides (4 cells in series) 6.4v at over 100ma for a good 5 minutes and than start the normal (or more correctly abnormal process)
3 - the cell uses very little of all this chemicals , more like 90% less than before.
4 - no corrosion has been seen on the Mg or Cu or even MnO2
5 - the production of gasses is much higher on the O2 than H2
6 - it is necessary a little jump on the cell before she goes into that "special mode", otherwise she will only behave as a normal corrosion crystal cell
7 - no need for Alum and Titanium also works instead of Mg although much lower voltage and current but still works and Titanium will NOT CORRODE for sure at all.
8 - 4 cells lights 2 LEDS pretty good.
9 - As she performs better with time and dries out, no need for more water.
10 - the cell performs accordingly to the load, lower the resistance, better the performance.

All in all, I will very soon share more and ah, one more very strange thing, if I remove the negative probe of the volt meter, the voltage of the cell goes into this strange but very predictable and periodic reversal of voltage although still on both poles of the cell a normal polarity non-reversal higher voltage is shown.


Now 4 cells in series is giving 2.643v at 1.5ma very constant. Shorted it goes up and up and I have not found the end yet, because it only gets slower the growth but keeps growing.


This cell is very different and it was designed before i built with my theory being applied and worked just like my "Monkey Science" said.


The idea of using only the positive probe of the volt meter was to detect the reversal that I predicted to be necessary for it to work. Basically the cell is replenishing herself and using water and "something else" as the fuel. Water only in the beginning.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: stprue on February 19, 2013, 01:27:07 PM
Great progress plengo!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on February 20, 2013, 05:12:06 PM
Today I ran a quick test (among many) using only the copper and aluminum foil and the result is , guess what? very positive. I ran tests like this before and aluminum was not corroded neither copper. The only thing against is that the power output is about 5x less than using magnesium.


Using Aluminum foil makes this crystal cell extremely cheap and accessible to all. How much costs a roll with kilometers of aluminum? less than $10 bucks and one can make thousands of cells with that roll.


Now I am also looking for a copper replacement since this is more expensive, but I am not going to die for it, since copper is also cheaper than magnesium and very abundant.


One tinny cell of 1 inch sq gave me 0.01v at 10ma. Imagine a roll compressed with 1 kilometer of it?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Tvrepair on February 21, 2013, 03:45:17 AM
Hi

I am new to this. I have made 5 batteries watching your videos.
Three with Elmer's glue two in cement. They have same basic properties you talk about.

If I may ask what is in your latest mix alum only or are there any other things included.

Greg
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on February 21, 2013, 11:33:28 PM
Hi

I am new to this. I have made 5 batteries watching your videos.
Three with Elmer's glue two in cement. They have same basic properties you talk about.

If I may ask what is in your latest mix alum only or are there any other things included.

Greg


A few posts before your question I mentioned: MnO2 + Mg + Cu + Carbon Activated + Epson salts + Distilled water

Now, those news cells are much complicated and I am still to make more videos about it.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 26, 2013, 01:14:03 PM
I've slowed down on the Crystal cell research. All cells but one or two lay around doing nothing. The only cell that is really doing anything is my 5 foot tall crystal cell that powers the LCD clock. The clock was running fine til this month in February when the clock face started to go dim and I assume the cell was finally dying.  I kept it going till the clock face would go blank, but it never did. The clock face regained its brightness but now it was off by 20 minutes. It remained at full power for a few days so I reset the clock back to normal time. A few days later the clock started to loose power again and fell 20 minutes back again, and once it regain power i reset it back. This is the third time so far that the clock looses power and falls 20 minutes behind, every time i set the clock 4 to 5 minutes ahead of the computers time. This is odd because when a normal battery dies it goes dead and won't recover like this cell does.


Right now i'm just waiting for the cell to die so I can pack up work and be done with it. Just when I think the cell is dying it comes right back to life. Even though I think i know how the cell works, sometimes a cell still has something to teach me.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: stprue on February 26, 2013, 01:27:30 PM
I recently was able to obtain barium titanate powder, so I mixed and melted in some caranuba wax and as it cooled I ran about 1200vdc through it for 30 minutes.  Initial reading was 0.000vdc.  I shorted this cell and will check it in a week for any effect.  I will post my results.  I was a little disappointed in my initial reading of 0vdc as you can easily make a crystal cell with melted sugar and get voltage voltage out of it.   :(
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on February 26, 2013, 04:08:54 PM
I've slowed down on the Crystal cell research. All cells but one or two lay around doing nothing. The only cell that is really doing anything is my 5 foot tall crystal cell that powers the LCD clock. The clock was running fine til this month in February when the clock face started to go dim and I assume the cell was finally dying.  I kept it going till the clock face would go blank, but it never did. The clock face regained its brightness but now it was off by 20 minutes. It remained at full power for a few days so I reset the clock back to normal time. A few days later the clock started to loose power again and fell 20 minutes back again, and once it regain power i reset it back. This is the third time so far that the clock looses power and falls 20 minutes behind, every time i set the clock 4 to 5 minutes ahead of the computers time. This is odd because when a normal battery dies it goes dead and won't recover like this cell does.


Right now i'm just waiting for the cell to die so I can pack up work and be done with it. Just when I think the cell is dying it comes right back to life. Even though I think i know how the cell works, sometimes a cell still has something to teach me.

IB,
Does your pipe cell have the ends open?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on February 26, 2013, 08:28:21 PM
@Allwest,


I am stating to understand how your cell can have such high amperage and go up as you use it. It has to do with the oxidation layer formed on top of your Magnesium because of the acidity of the Chilli Pepper sauce.


Your cell indeed dry can be very powerfull. Do a test, make a very light solution of Epson salts like 1 tsp with 50 ml of water and added a few drops of that to your cell and see the results.


It will sky rocket the voltage and amperage every time.




@IBpointless2,


don't give up my friend. There is way much more to it than you think.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on February 27, 2013, 04:53:29 AM
@Allwest,


I am stating to understand how your cell can have such high amperage and go up as you use it. It has to do with the oxidation layer formed on top of your Magnesium because of the acidity of the Chilli Pepper sauce.


Your cell indeed dry can be very powerfull. Do a test, make a very light solution of Epson salts like 1 tsp with 50 ml of water and added a few drops of that to your cell and see the results.


It will sky rocket the voltage and amperage every time.




@IBpointless2,


don't give up my friend. There is way much more to it than you think.


Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

This affect happens to my cells even when I do not use chilli powder

I have done a lot of study on this, not certain yet but, the shorting out of any cell causes heat, and heat makes this cell rise in power (with limits as you have found out),

Test conclusion- I get a longer time of power going up with thick mag when shorting out cell than with less thick mag using the same surface area,

Test conclusion- I can get the power to keep going up if I cool the mag

So my humble opinion is that the Allwest cells creates its own energy by heating itself up, until the two different metals have equal temperature

I am creating some kind of self generating thermal electric power,

The normal TEG device does not act this way, it has to be heated and cooled to gain power,

With the Allwest type of cell, all you have to do is cool, (I think this is a huge thing)

You should try this and let me know your finding

Best of luck 

Note: The reason why the thickness matters in the mag, is because its mass takes longer to come up to the same temperature as the copper when shorted out

Also, another note, when you make the flat copper mag cell, place copper on both sides of the mag and you will get almost double the power     
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 03, 2013, 04:45:34 PM
Fausto,

From your videos I see you are making great progress on these cells,

One thing to note on forming these cells that I have observed, when the cell finally drys and reaches 1.47 volts resting then they are fully formed

This number keeps coming up on each cell once it has completed forming, not sure why yet, but it comes up very consistent

And then you know it is ready for the next step

Best of luck


One protection treatment of the mag that looks very promising (Dip the mag in H2O2 and stain the mag black with lighter flame) I believe this adds Nano carbon film that protects mag and adds to the power transfer)

Best of luck     

 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: hartiberlin on March 05, 2013, 03:20:05 AM
Hi Fausto and Allwest and All !
Very interesting results you are getting !
Great work !

Well,
when Walter Hofmann and me worked on the Zamak alloy- graphite-saltwatercells in
2005, we also had some kind of Zinkcloride crystal forming in the layer between the
Zamak alloy and the graphite.
This crystal also did grow and form some kind of PN layer
between the graphite and the Zamak.

This PN layer is then like a big diode which can rectify all different kind of wavelength
and might also rectify lower wavelength heat radiation or just the environmental heat
inside the cell...

Probably the same is true in your cell Fausto, so when the crystalls have formed on the Magnesium
metal it is mostly shielded from further fast destruction and the crystal layer between the copper
and Magnesium can form some kind of PN diode layer and extract electricity by rectifying heat or
RF waves.

in 2005 the problem with the Zamak metal was, that it was still slowly decomposing because
of the NaCl salt in the water and thus thus these Zinkchlorid crystals always did grew bigger until
all the Zamak rods were decomposed.
But they formed some nice clear transparent crystals.

Some old videos and some pictures you still can find here.

http://harti.com/walt/

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 05, 2013, 04:27:23 AM
Hi Fausto and Allwest and All !
Very interesting results you are getting !
Great work !

Well,
when Walter Hofmann and me worked on the Zamak alloy- graphite-saltwatercells in
2005, we also had some kind of Zinkcloride crystal forming in the layer between the
Zamak alloy and the graphite.
This crystal also did grow and form some kind of PN layer
between the graphite and the Zamak.

This PN layer is then like a big diode which can rectify all different kind of wavelength
and might also rectify lower wavelength heat radiation or just the environmental heat
inside the cell...

Probably the same is true in your cell Fausto, so when the crystalls have formed on the Magnesium
metal it is mostly shielded from further fast destruction and the crystal layer between the copper
and Magnesium can form some kind of PN diode layer and extract electricity by rectifying heat or
RF waves.

in 2005 the problem with the Zamak metal was, that it was still slowly decomposing because
of the NaCl salt in the water and thus thus these Zinkchlorid crystals always did grew bigger until
all the Zamak rods were decomposed.
But they formed some nice clear transparent crystals.

Some old videos and some pictures you still can find here.

http://harti.com/walt/

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Very interesting info, thanks for sharing

These allwest type of dry cells are very sensitive, once they are formed you can touch them and the volts and amps start going up, after you get these to form and become dry, you can add water and other and these cells climb BIG TIME

The earlier Allwest cells as you can see in my videos and Fausto easily reached 1 AMP, but destroyed the mag very quickly, the video fausto made shows the big Mag falling apart in chunks

I think the new refined cells create more power in the long run without destroying the mag

The funny part about this type of cell, even when shorted and dry for months it still puts out power

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: TechStuf on March 05, 2013, 04:30:23 AM
Consider again what is implied with the Graphene produced in a DVD lighscribe drive.  The ease with which these cheap materials are translated into high density energy storage is why so many are rushing into the arena.  Now, consider the very real possibilities of graphene and another nano structured material working in harmony to force couple the wheel work of the infinite....and one has a battery that never quits.

A good experiment in that direction would involve a layer of interleaved graphene and thin insulator so as to collect high tension positive charge.  Imagine how quickly it could take a charge simply by rubbing the insulator layer.  Imagine a cell phone for instance, charged by simply rubbing it a few times against one's clothing.  Or the super thin graphene capacitor continually topped off by wifi or cell signal energy transduction.



TS
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on March 05, 2013, 06:21:25 AM
In recent videos I have shown my latest progress with a very powerful LEDs set running brightly (I calculated to about 3 to 4 watts of power to run this LEDs).


I am using 14 cells in series (to be honest unecessary).


My latest findings has to do with what I call a "forming the cell". Which is a very simple but long process of forming to PN (or the like) layers over the Copper. The first is a (assumption) form of Copper Oxide of sorts while the second is a Copper Sulfate of sorts. Unlike everyone is thinking I don't think I am forming a layer over the Magnesium rod.


I am providing a mechanism to protect the Magnesium by utilizing two elements. First a compound named MnO2 (Manganese Di-Oxide) which absorbs hydrogen faster than can evaporate under normal conditions. Second making the whole mix more Base based or Hydroxide than Acid, more like very base.


Refreshing the cell with Epson salts solution seems the best formula so far. Not all cells end up working well. Some are simply exceptional in their behavior and output power than others of the exact same build and formula and build from same batch of elements.


I can easily see that the Magnesium has been reduced its corrosion to by at least a good 80% compared to previous tests I have done.


I can achieve up to 350ma at .4 volts one single cell (under a short). No load even at 2.60 volts one cell. Simply amazing, nothing like I have seen before.


The process of "forming the cell" is using electricity. I pump 2 amps at 62 volts over the cell to the point of boiling water temperatures. Extremely dangerous process since Magnesium can light up and catch in fire, which happened a few times already. Besides the fact that MnO2 is poisonous.


So, my careful advice is experiment only by your own judgement and not mine. I am claiming no liability to anyone on this experiment.


Cell is formed once is dry under the electrical death of the  cell. After refresh with Epson solution and she will climb pretty fast.


Temperature has demonstrated NO signs of effect over the cell. I put some cells under the torch and no voltage or current had variations.


This is indeed a very special cell.


Fausto.



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 05, 2013, 05:09:52 PM
In recent videos I have shown my latest progress with a very powerful LEDs set running brightly (I calculated to about 3 to 4 watts of power to run this LEDs).


I am using 14 cells in series (to be honest unecessary).


My latest findings has to do with what I call a "forming the cell". Which is a very simple but long process of forming to PN (or the like) layers over the Copper. The first is a (assumption) form of Copper Oxide of sorts while the second is a Copper Sulfate of sorts. Unlike everyone is thinking I don't think I am forming a layer over the Magnesium rod.


I am providing a mechanism to protect the Magnesium by utilizing two elements. First a compound named MnO2 (Manganese Di-Oxide) which absorbs hydrogen faster than can evaporate under normal conditions. Second making the whole mix more Base based or Hydroxide than Acid, more like very base.


Refreshing the cell with Epson salts solution seems the best formula so far. Not all cells end up working well. Some are simply exceptional in their behavior and output power than others of the exact same build and formula and build from same batch of elements.


I can easily see that the Magnesium has been reduced its corrosion to by at least a good 80% compared to previous tests I have done.


I can achieve up to 350ma at .4 volts one single cell (under a short). No load even at 2.60 volts one cell. Simply amazing, nothing like I have seen before.


The process of "forming the cell" is using electricity. I pump 2 amps at 62 volts over the cell to the point of boiling water temperatures. Extremely dangerous process since Magnesium can light up and catch in fire, which happened a few times already. Besides the fact that MnO2 is poisonous.


So, my careful advice is experiment only by your own judgement and not mine. I am claiming no liability to anyone on this experiment.


Cell is formed once is dry under the electrical death of the  cell. After refresh with Epson solution and she will climb pretty fast.


Temperature has demonstrated NO signs of effect over the cell. I put some cells under the torch and no voltage or current had variations.


This is indeed a very special cell.


Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

Very nice work on the new cell, it looks like a winner

and good idea on using the MnO2, this should cut down on the corrosion of the mag

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 06, 2013, 03:24:45 AM
Fausto,

I had to re-read

"I can achieve up to 350ma at .4 volts one single cell (under a short). No load even at 2.60 volts one cell. Simply amazing, nothing like I have seen before."

WOW! 2.60 volts

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on March 06, 2013, 02:52:50 PM
I know. I am impressed myself. They don't sustain that but just the fact I got that in the beginning is amazing. There is something special about the formation of the cell.


I will make a step-by-step video of how to form. It is very simple but dangerous.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: b_rads on March 06, 2013, 04:05:32 PM
@plengo, @Allwest:
        It is good to see you are still working on these cells.  I check in once in a while and am always impressed with the direction and results I see posted here.
        Every now and then I see something lying around and do the “what if” game and throw something together.  I still get a thrill when an LED lights up.
        I still have several cells that continue to function with my oldest being 2.5 years now.  Several have been working for a year and longer.  It is still great fun to cast zinc electrodes as I have several in a box just waiting for emergencies.
        Keep up the good work and I sincerely hope you find the perfect combination that will benefit all.  I will continue to check in and observe.
 
@Stefan:
        Enjoyed looking at yours and Walter Hofmann’s archive.  Wonderful that you have saved that work.
 
Brad S  :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 11, 2013, 02:26:18 AM
To All

The latest Allwest cell reaches 1.58 volts and 60 Ma

Wait to you see the size of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1syYzVsFX8

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: hartiberlin on March 11, 2013, 05:47:57 AM
Hi Fausto and Allwest, great success !
Well done guys.

Well my current alufoil-carbonfiber cells died after a few days and dried out and
the NaCO3 ate the alufoil away.

So I will also soon try it with MnO2 on the alufoil side to get rid of the hydrogen there...
It seems the MnO2 which is also in normal carbon zinc batteries at the zinc electrodes
eats away the hydrogen (oxidizes it to water)  which is produced at the metal electrode and thus
it prevents a "cloud charge" of the metal electrode where the electrons are just hindered to go through,
so the cell gets very high internal resistance without the MnO2 oxidizer...

So we need an oxidizer salt at the metal electrode to oxidize the H2 to water and this is what the
MnO2 is doing.

Maybe we can still find a better and cheaper material to do this ?
Maybe also KMnO4 will work even better ?
It seems these battery cells have a lot in common with black power and fireworks chemistry
as we have the same reactions like in gun powder or flash powders oxidizing the metals,
but only working very slowly and give off electrons for the current to light up LEDs and other loads
and not just burning up and making a flash bang as in fireworks...

Surely if we succeed too make the right PN semiconductor layers inside these cells with the right band gap,
we will be able to convert the right wavelength from outside into electrical energy , like heat waves, radio waves,
light waves, etc..

So maybe some of these cells also work on converting just long wave infrared heat waves into electrical power
and thus extract heat from the environment and convert it directly into electricity.

Then it is understandable, why they last longer than pure galvanic cells , which just consume only the
electrode materials in a pure chemical reaction...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 13, 2013, 05:03:42 AM
Hi Fausto and Allwest, great success !
Well done guys.

Well my current alufoil-carbonfiber cells died after a few days and dried out and
the NaCO3 ate the alufoil away.

So I will also soon try it with MnO2 on the alufoil side to get rid of the hydrogen there...
It seems the MnO2 which is also in normal carbon zinc batteries at the zinc electrodes
eats away the hydrogen (oxidizes it to water)  which is produced at the metal electrode and thus
it prevents a "cloud charge" of the metal electrode where the electrons are just hindered to go through,
so the cell gets very high internal resistance without the MnO2 oxidizer...

So we need an oxidizer salt at the metal electrode to oxidize the H2 to water and this is what the
MnO2 is doing.

Maybe we can still find a better and cheaper material to do this ?
Maybe also KMnO4 will work even better ?
It seems these battery cells have a lot in common with black power and fireworks chemistry
as we have the same reactions like in gun powder or flash powders oxidizing the metals,
but only working very slowly and give off electrons for the current to light up LEDs and other loads
and not just burning up and making a flash bang as in fireworks...

Surely if we succeed too make the right PN semiconductor layers inside these cells with the right band gap,
we will be able to convert the right wavelength from outside into electrical energy , like heat waves, radio waves,
light waves, etc..

So maybe some of these cells also work on converting just long wave infrared heat waves into electrical power
and thus extract heat from the environment and convert it directly into electricity.

Then it is understandable, why they last longer than pure galvanic cells , which just consume only the
electrode materials in a pure chemical reaction...

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan,

Wow! Potassium permanganate is a very good suggestion to use on these cells

Regarding MnO2- I have been trying green copper oxide as a catalyst for hydrogen, do you know anything about that? This comes about naturally in my cells and correlates to the increase in power 

"Surely if we succeed too make the right PN semiconductor layers inside these cells with the right band gap,
we will be able to convert the right wavelength from outside into electrical energy , like heat waves, radio waves,
light waves, etc.."
Glad to see! That is exactly where I am trying to head with my cells right now, especially the dry cells, they seem to be in the category of a galvanic and thermal electric device, I have also successfully added a Pyro electric component, the next being adding a piezo  component to the cell

Thinking of using LITHIUM TANTALATE until I read the MSDS sheet

Best of luck   

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 19, 2013, 02:19:33 AM
To All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0jwgDT7u18

Graphite and treated-formed magnesium dry cell
This cell holds power dry (shorted) at 2.25 Ma dry, adding just water-moist brings this cell up to 200 Ma range  1.85 volts
But the interesting results is the dry cell power that has no sign of depleting
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 19, 2013, 03:55:29 PM
To All

Still trying to figure out why some of my crystal cells react with more power when shorted

Heat does seem to affect this cell with the possibility of a thermal difference between two dissimilar metals   

But also researching these cells getting the power from a kind of Thermophotovoltaic cell, which are also affected by heat, that turn heat into electricity via photons, these cells  use crystals to change and collect optical energy, near-infrared region

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"Thermophotovoltaic (TPV) energy conversion is a direct conversion process from heat differentials to electricity via photons. A basic thermophotovoltaic system consists of a thermal emitter and a photovoltaic diode cell."

Best of luck
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on April 12, 2013, 01:37:14 PM
Hi everyone, I've been busy with other things and have not played with crystal cells that much. I do have an update on the 5 foot crystal cell that powers a LCD clock that was a little odd.


Around 3-5-13 the 5 foot tall crystal cells that powers the LCD clock went out. The screen completely blank. Some times the screen would flicker a digit out of the block of numbers but it would never show the full amount of digits to show the time. I was about ready to put it up and maybe take it apart to see what happen and why it died but due to my laziness i never got around to doing so and i’m glad i didn't[/size][/font]. last night around 9PM on 4-11-13 the clock came back at full power! The clock was dead for nearly a month, I never touched it or moved it, and was considering it a failure and ready to put it up for good. Before going to bed I set the clock a little ahead and when i woke this morning its still keeping perfect time at full power! I have no idea what could have triggered it to turn back on as it was never touched and the cell is sealed up too. Within that month i had thunderstorms pass though and the clock never responded to the temp or humidity of the storm. Maybe the cell doesn't like March? During the time the clock was out I missed it because i used it as a clock in the room. The cell dies and then comes back to life, how odd is that? [/font]

[/font]
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ian middleton on May 23, 2013, 07:29:59 AM
G'Day all,
@ib, I've had the same thing happen on some of my older cells. They die for no reason and then blam come back to life.
Keep up the good work guys.
regards ian.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Cincinnatus on June 06, 2013, 11:23:11 AM
Hi Everyone

First I want you all to know how much I appreciate your efforts Fausto, allwest ipointless, lidmotor, lasersaber, inventor3 ..... I am fascinated by your work and dedication. Now I have a great desire to start experimenting myself. I am currently ordering materials. I have one question. One thing I have not seen on this thread is any mention of John Hutchison's cell. He uses some unique materials like Rochelle salts, Sodium Silicate and what he calls doping agents like Galena, Iron Pyrite, Calcium Carbonate and Silver filings.

Here is the video. Initially I was about to stop watching it because I thought it was a prank!! But somehow I kept watching.
I guess a scientist can be forgiven for his eccentricities :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xf_JBnDOBw
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on July 11, 2013, 03:41:22 AM
Many has been asking me what is that I have done with the cells on the series of videos called "Thermo Static Crystal cell".


It is very simple. The physical construction is pretty obvious on the videos. The "forming" of the cells is also simple.


Copper is the positive and Magnesium is the negative. I apply a 60 volts at 2amps (max) to the cell until it get so hot and dries all the liquid. I apply negative to the Copper and positive to the Magnesium. Some sparks sometimes happens but no problems so far.


I do this only once until the cell is completely dry. There will be lots of vapors so do it on a ventilated area. After that apply some Epson salts solution (usually 2 tbs to 50 ml of water).


Once you do this, the cell will have an amazing performance.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on August 24, 2013, 02:24:42 AM
A update on my 5 foot crystal cell long term test....


The cell still producing power and still powering a LCD clock. I dissected the cell too and found some corrosion but not as much as i thought. The cell never needs water and been running the clock since 2011. I installed a window on the cell so i can see corrosion without taking the cell apart. The Magnesium is still strong and not brittle and the cell was giving me 1.411 V @ 100uA when I had it disconnected from the clock. Power came back instantly when shorted and when first hooking it up to the amp meter it started at 80uA and climbed to 100uA. It looks like it will run for a long time.


YouTube video...... http://youtu.be/0RaIbf8wyPY

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2013, 05:14:01 AM
Today I learned something interesting about the crystal cells i am doing. I made this mix that dries up very very fast and becomes very dry and hard very fast.


If you add water, a tiny little bit, the mixture becomes very soft, wet and mushy. A few seconds/minutes later it dries up very fast and again the same thing.


While the mix changes back and fourth, lots of energy comes out as electricity, a ratio of 1 or 2 ma per square inch in size (square).


The time that any reaction happens in the Magnesium it is very diminished because the counter effect of the mix concerning the metal, the mix sucks the water up and the Magnesium has much less time influenced by the presence of water while "ions flows" in one direction more than the other. The flow of the water being absorbed makes the travel of the opposite ions to flow, as an exchange in energy stored in the metals, slower than the other "ions" or "cation" (whichever satisfies your view).


This is in effect reducing the level of corrosion by orders of magnitude for much more energy out ration to the size of the cell.


If you have a pile of the mix dry, very dry, you don't need water, you can just poke the rock slowly until it becomes watery, softer and very soon mushy and obviously wet but no water to be found anywhere when it was very very dry like a rock.


This mix has an amazing capacity of storing water and releasing too.


This combined with a good "polarizer" in the mix, a lot less gas is released and any that is released becomes trapped in the structure full of empty spaces (crystal structure with columns, spaces, more columns - resulting in more space than matter) of the mix, specially when semi-dry, where it becomes very spongy and resilient, very bonding like tick glue.


This allows the mix inflate like balloons until or either burst (usually the biggest ones outside the edges of the cell structure) or gets absorbed again. Inside they must be containing the gas by cheer pressure and become absorbed into the mix again. An infinite cycle the mix is capable.


This and the relationship with electricity it is another unimaginable thing. All I can present is the data I collect and my conclusions based on the data.


My old cells with this mix, do produce much more energy for much more time with a good ratio of power out/mass of metals/mix.


I have to organize my notes and post them here with pictures and hopefully with videos too.


Fausto.





Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 12, 2013, 11:35:45 PM
Here is the man himself showing his work and his crystal cells: Marcus Reid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3cgEmTlDA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOKY6igg0CI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzsXzlkkzV8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsj4vfgqODU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im3-d5rJ9kg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7VG7QpJoFE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIM_QN93_jM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKi10nrjuG0




Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on October 13, 2013, 03:47:17 PM
Fausto,

Thanks for the video post
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on October 13, 2013, 04:24:50 PM
 Yes awesome.


 Has anyone tried the new hydrophobic sprays they have now to create a water barrier? This would eliminate the galvanic arguments.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2013, 03:58:08 AM

@jbignes5,

Once I tested a conductive grease (I forgot the name) for that one question. BTW, I loved your idea and checked on youtube anything about this spray and I found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEH6tDLKcVU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEH6tDLKcVU). I was impressed of the power of the compound of the spray that is capable of being more granular than water molecules and still penetrate the material (such as a boot or brick) and dry up there.


Anything above water will fall.


My test worked with mixed results. In one is that the grease did let initially pass "electricity" and run the load but eventually it did not resisted the power of the chemicals on the cell and end up being punctured allowing "ions" to flow and complete the oxidation.


I am suspicious that a permanent barrier of "ions" would indeed work, as long only "electrons" pass through to the other side of the dipole.




@All,


a question. Let's suppose one crystal cell is able to have a total resistance of 26 mega ohms. With the media dry, it gives about some voltage. No current. Over a load.


Now, add water to the same mix (without a load) and measuring resistance again I would expect to have a much lower resistance once water is added. Result was 26 mega ohms again (+/-).


Question is: Could a cell with those characteristics give more current? if yes, and the resistance still being 26 mega ohms, would this be considered a closed loop system? (at least of any useful level).


If no, would not that mean that no current is flowing for either not having any current being generated or for the current not being able to pass 26 mega ohm of resistance in any useful level (like in groups of 5 cells, run a LED).


Now the puzzle, once load is inserted, the cell gives current and voltage. How's that?


If I hear an answer like, the load being of lower resistance than the cell would provide a drop in potential and therefore current would exist? I don't buy that.


If I hear that with the load the resistance of the cell ALSO lowered? I don't buy that either.


Fausto.











Yes awesome.


 Has anyone tried the new hydrophobic sprays they have now to create a water barrier? This would eliminate the galvanic arguments.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on October 14, 2013, 02:14:32 PM

 It's in the stores now Called never wet as a spray from rustolium. Aparently they bought it...


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-18-oz-NeverWet-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Kit-274232/204216476#.UlvfoFA_t_M

 I'm just wondering if it is ionic conductive?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2013, 08:47:20 PM

Thank you for the link. I will buy it and try it out.


Fausto.

It's in the stores now Called never wet as a spray from rustolium. Aparently they bought it...


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-18-oz-NeverWet-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Kit-274232/204216476#.UlvfoFA_t_M (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-18-oz-NeverWet-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Kit-274232/204216476#.UlvfoFA_t_M)

 I'm just wondering if it is ionic conductive?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
I found this concerning batteries internal resistance (IR):


http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=634808 (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=634808)


http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/BatteryIR.pdf (http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/BatteryIR.pdf)


http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/pg_series/PG-12V200_11_Jan_12.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/pg_series/PG-12V200_11_Jan_12.pdf)
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS-121400FR_11_Feb_21.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS-121400FR_11_Feb_21.pdf)
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/Info%20for%20PHR%20section%20of%20website%2011%20Nov%2015/PHR-12500_12_July_2.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/Info%20for%20PHR%20section%20of%20website%2011%20Nov%2015/PHR-12500_12_July_2.pdf)




This all tells me that normal Lead Acid Batteries are around 3 to 5 mili-ohms. My cells has 26 Mega Ohms and still giving voltage and current. That's so strange to me.


I really need help here.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on October 15, 2013, 08:16:44 PM
I found this concerning batteries internal resistance (IR):


http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=634808 (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=634808)


http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/BatteryIR.pdf (http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/BatteryIR.pdf)


http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/pg_series/PG-12V200_11_Jan_12.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/pg_series/PG-12V200_11_Jan_12.pdf)
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS-121400FR_11_Feb_21.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS-121400FR_11_Feb_21.pdf)
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/Info%20for%20PHR%20section%20of%20website%2011%20Nov%2015/PHR-12500_12_July_2.pdf (http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/Info%20for%20PHR%20section%20of%20website%2011%20Nov%2015/PHR-12500_12_July_2.pdf)




This all tells me that normal Lead Acid Batteries are around 3 to 5 mili-ohms. My cells has 26 Mega Ohms and still giving voltage and current. That's so strange to me.


I really need help here.


Fausto.


 In traditional electronics this is known:


 "In electrical engineering, the maximum power transfer theorem states that, to obtain maximum external power from a source with a finite internal resistance, the resistance of the load must equal the resistance of the source as viewed from its output terminals. Moritz von Jacobi published the maximum power (transfer) theorem around 1840; it is also referred to as "Jacobi's law".
The theorem results in maximum power transfer, and not maximum efficiency. If the resistance of the load is made larger than the resistance of the source, then efficiency is higher, since a higher percentage of the source power is transferred to the load, but the magnitude of the load power is lower since the total circuit resistance goes up.
If the load resistance is smaller than the source resistance, then most of the power ends up being dissipated in the source, and although the total power dissipated is higher, due to a lower total resistance, it turns out that the amount dissipated in the load is reduced.
The theorem states how to choose (so as to maximize power transfer) the load resistance, once the source resistance is given. It is a common misconception to apply the theorem in the opposite scenario. It does not say how to choose the source resistance for a given load resistance. In fact, the source resistance that maximizes power transfer is always zero, regardless of the value of the load resistance."

 I am also having a real problem like you. Something is different with this type of cell, it is counter intuitive.

 I think this type of cell is gonna need a converter like device. Something to give it more umph to specific loads.

 I am gonna be working on Bifilar pancake coils to see if I can get that to work. Like a joule thief type of a setup depending on the load.

 Are you still of the opinion that this is a ionic power transfer?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 03, 2013, 03:12:05 AM
And one more video that I think is the beginning of a great journey on this Crystal Cell Research.


http://youtu.be/L9GovDUYIqM



I am showing one of Bedini's cell and indeed so far it is amazing. Excellent power output and no signs of corrosion. It is only Copper of good quality, Magnesium of the highest quality possible 99.99% and Alum, that's it.


Very easy to make and it really runs for a LONG time before needing a drop of water. Well, that's said.


Now, my research has reached a point of no return, i think. I am able to create an electrolyte that when totally dry (100%) presents good voltage and current. Not forever but pretty much for a week or so. Great ration weight/size to power output.


That is one, the second is that this same formula runs even better with water and the best, NO CORROSION of the metals.


I don't think I need quality Magnesium. I am testing with both qualities. My cell is more complicated and difficult to build at the size I am building but as bigger it becomes, easier is to build.


This new cell does not perform as good as Bedini's cell, i think, but mine is very, very thin and small. So let's see where it will make me go.....to the rabbit role.




Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 04, 2014, 04:56:59 PM
Well it has been awhile

I still have the bug of creating a high powered cell that lasts a long time

Now that it is finally raining I  have some time to play

I finally broke through the 2 amp cell range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9aZvMYzCP4

This cell has settled dry at about 350 Ma
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: e2matrix on March 04, 2014, 06:38:38 PM
Well it has been awhile

I still have the bug of creating a high powered cell that lasts a long time

Now that it is finally raining I  have some time to play

I finally broke through the 2 amp cell range

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9aZvMYzCP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9aZvMYzCP4)

This cell has settled dry at about 350 Ma
Impressive!   Is this made similar to plengo's?    Have you seen lasersaber's cell.   He did a nice video on how to build a cell that makes it very easy to follow.   I have it on my 'to do list'.    Lasersaber is at www.laserhacker.com if you want to take a look at how his is built.   Not saying it's better - just for info.   I don't think he's getting as much current as yours IIRC.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 04, 2014, 08:56:31 PM
Matrix,

Wow, Laser has a very nice dry cell, it would be nice to know what it finally settled down to on power (thanks for posting)

The cell you see is the result of many years of on and off study

You can see mix designs on both Fausto and mine YouTube video channels

This cell that I am currently working with (even though everything used is non toxic) can be dangerous, left shorted out it could be dangerous, it kinda feeds on itself, it got so hot it was vibrating 

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 08, 2014, 02:31:25 AM


Charging the crystal cell with a candle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLM6p_mHyHk
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on March 26, 2014, 05:53:00 PM
rechargeable magnesium battery cell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES7bS0VXlTE
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 10, 2014, 01:51:35 AM
I have no idea at all what response this will get, but considering I'm new to posting among hard-working researchers doing things the right way, unlike myself, it probably won't be taken well. But it's gotta be said, because it's killing me not to have a clue about this. Fix me if I need it. I can take it.

Allwest, you are getting results I've never seen before, and I really want to try whatever it is you're doing, especially with this new breakthrough rechargeable cell. I've noticed you aren't releasing details about the materials used, or maybe I just haven't looked in the right place. If you aren't releasing details, I'm curious about why, if you don't mind me asking? I'll accept your answer whatever it is, I mean, what other choice do I have? It just seems like our entire species is at a crucial crossroads between consolidation of unofficial slavery over all or freedom for all, and I'd be slow to actually call someone selfish for holding back for recognition or profit, but it seems like those who oppose freedom take advantage of these tendencies in inventors to supress things. Inventors who make real breakthroughs often have "accidents" before they can release their stuff.

I've been making some of these crystal cells and had some success with them powering a nightlight, but lack money to really wade into the waters of research.  What you've done is about the greatest thing I've seen in battery research. I realize you're still testing it and trying variations, etc., but I'd really love to know the secret ingredient, or just the ingredients. Maybe it isn't secret and I just haven't looked where you posted it.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 10, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
halfvucan;
In the interest of starting some communication on this topic I am putting my view of batteries on here.

I am interested in weak electrolyte batteries using their standing voltage and currents. An interesting design
uses the outside case of Acid/Lead Cells with the electrolytes dumped out, called dry acid/lead batteries
and replacement of the electrolyte with a weaker one. They can be charged to some extent and then
their standing voltage is higher for awhile. Because they are designed robustly to handle high currents
and wear of strong electrolytes they should give good lifetimes in this service.

You can google the names in here and generally you will find an interesting story behind each.

---

I've noticed there seems to be some confusion on batteries based on the way they are named and used.

Strong Electrolyte - Storage Batteries.  These are big, bad and used for energy storage and playback.
they are highly ionic and can use very large charge/discharge currents. The venerable Acid/Lead Batteries
are in this group. They transfer metals between their electro-poles, therefore are prone to wear. Strong
Electrolyte batteries either need water added or catalytically recombine the H+O. This group includes
Alum Batteries which are weakly acidic. And Iron Edison Alkaline KOH Batteries. This group "boils" =>
electrolyze their electrolytic fluid during recharge so lost water needs replacement.

Weak Electrolyte Batteries - Energy Generators. These operate with chemistries similar to Strong Electrolyte Batteries
but have something called standing voltage and current - they won't discharge below their standing voltage.
A good example is the Karpen's Pile Batteries. In this the electrolyte is strong but can't dissolve the gold/platinum
electrodes. The weakest example is a water battery. There is generally no metal transfer or corrosion at the poles of
these batteries. But they can electrolyze water which will need to be re-added.
 
Semi-Crystal Cells These are known as hydrate crystal cells. Some water is either added or from humidity in
the air. Both hydrate and true crystal cells can often be made from the previous two by drying their
electrolytes out. They have an inherent standing voltage and current but one has to either add small
amounts water or have it be available in the air. I think they make some use of ionic transfer in their
limited aqueous environments. An interesting subgroup is David Bowling Sensor/Transducer Batteries
which makes use of sulfur crystals. These Semi-Crystal cells retain some water internally as hydrates. 
The Energenx permanent lamp uses this group, lasersabers cells and concrete batteries are interesting.

True-Crystal Cells Batteries They are non-galvanic and are usually sealed from the environment
to exclude water or galvanic activity including corrosion. I believe they are powered by intercepting
Petrolithic Energy. Their voltages never decrease with use. But due to their non-ionic/crystal makeup
have somewhat lower powers. This group includes Marcus Reid Cells available on ebay,
Zamboni High Voltage Piles, Ian Middleton's cells on overunity.com                                             


:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 10, 2014, 09:08:26 PM
That is a nice neat categorization of the types of cells.  I have become pretty well acquainted with the differences between these things, but the mind finds it useful to have the extra order and differentiation. Somebody (I need to find out who) once referred to these crystal cells as less batteries than "electron pumps".  I think Ibpointless was the one who said they're more like self-charging capacitors than they are like batteries. I'm confused about the differences between batteries and capacitors to begin with. :P But I know I could find out again in less time than it took to type this nonsense.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 10, 2014, 10:13:39 PM
Ok, I'm just going to document my personal method. I'm using materials I have on-hand.  So my metals are copper and aluminum. I'm using a general recipe from one of IBPointless's videos about making low-current dry crystal cells, except obviously without the magnesium.
My materials are very thick uninsulated copper wire (not sure the guage) and aluminum foil, newspaper, water, epsom salt, and salt substitute.
1. I mix and stir well equal amounts of epsom and substitute into the water in a bowl
2. lay the newspaper strips in and let them soak for at least 5 minutes or so
3. wrap a thoroughly soaked strip around the straightened length of copper wire
4.  I roll that in my hands until it feels like its pressed in well around the wire, roughly round with no obvious protrusions, and feels well-bonded to the wire.
5. I leave it/them to dry and grow crystals for over 24 hours. Ibpointless recommends at least 48 hours for the much larger ones.
6. I feel them and usually they're completely stiff and seem dry, though on step 8 I've noticed some of them have water dripping out, so maybe I'm not allowing enough drying time.
7. I wrap around a piece of aluminum foil that'nearly completely covers the newspaper and wraps around twice.
8. I use a two-foot length of plastic-insulated wire  to tighten the foil down with pressure against the newspaper by tightly coiling it around the foil, then unwrap it. This creates a "ridged" look to the outside of the foil layer. This, imo, helps hold things together and keep it from loosening over time. My cells feel like solid objects as a result.
9. This is a new step I've started doing. I test each and if I don't see close to the .54 volts or better out of them, I heat them up in the toaster oven for a few minutes. That usually "wakes them up". Mind you, NOT the microwave. NEVER put metal in a microwave.

I've been creating these in about 8 inch lengths and they don't produce as much voltage as the magnesium-copper cells (less than half I believe), but this way I get to experiment without putting money out for materials. I recently made 24 of these. They each put out over half a volt and I forget how many milliamps, just 1 to a few I think. I wanted to keep them hooked up to prove to myself they can keep going and do something useful because I have many naysayers trying to discourage me in my life. So, I decided on a nightlight. I have a LED bicycle light kit that uses 3 volts that I'm not using on a bicycle any time soon. So, made three groups of 8 of these in series to increase volts and put those groups in parallel to increase amps. That's over 4 volts and I suppose maybe 6 milliamps , enough to light up the 2 leds in the bicycle kit. I've had it going for about 24 hours and expect it to be brightly lit for at least a week before I start possibly seeing it dim (due to moisture and corrosion usually). I've been away from these for a while, but if I remember right, I'm going about these wrong. If you're making them completely dry, you're supposed to let them thoroughly dry and grow the crystals out, then seal them before using them. SInce I didn't do that, mine are probably galvanic-crystal cells right now. Oops. Oh well, I need the fresh experience of this process since I've been away a year. I'll watch them and try to learn.
I'm considering buying some Borax and alum and add those to the mix too when I make more of these to see how that does. Maybe that mix will perform better or be better at keeping away corrosion, I don't know. Maybe even chili powder, since Allwest has had some "magical" results with that in the past.

Again, I wish I knew Allwest's recipe for his new rechargeable cells. I realize they are rechargeable batteries, not crystal cells, though they may in fact be acting as both, I don't know. I have a bedini imhotep charger I made and would love to get his latest experimental recipe. If he's keeping it quiet, I'd love to know why he's keeping it quiet, but maybe he's keeping it quiet why he's keeping it quiet, to avoid controversy or other complications, which I think I can understand. :P
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 11, 2014, 02:02:51 AM

Yes I would be touchy about using magnesium metal because of it's tendency to catch fire and burn in air. A real battery might
expose it to those conditions.  But if you lookup the Electronegativity table on Wikipedia, You can see that Ti titanium is almost
as electronegative as magnesium. It has some resistivity but in real use in a battery it might hang on a copper core.
The other side of the table is W (wolfram) tungsten metal. Gold and platinum are best but unavailable. It's one way to get
your battery voltage up. I would be disinclined to add pure organics even though people have had some success using
vitamin C and aspirin and EDTA. I am concerned that using alcohols and bleach might create a situation where volatiles
simply evaporate away. User ibpointless2 did a lot of interesting stuff and he was receiving coodos from other people.
I would like to ask him some questions but he seems not been on here in a while. Yes, As you probably expect I believe
that there is a continuum amount strong electrolyte storage batteries with their charged and discharged state, weak electrolyte
cells with their standing voltage and crystal cells with their links to petrolithic energy. It may be best to combine a mix of all
three rather then have primary batteries that simply exhaust themselves to very near zero power.

 Well, keep up the good work. :)

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 11, 2014, 02:38:24 AM
Thanks Allwest for your work. I'm clinging to your Youtube channel and looking back here hoping you'll post something new.  Even if your rechargeable cell doesn't jump all the hurdles, I think it's really going in the right direction anyway. So, what's the recipe? Or maybe I'm being too presumptive. Maybe I should be asking what I saw someone else ask: will you ever be open-sourcing it?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 11, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
Should I make my own particular testing a seperate topic? Imo Allwest (and whatever other big names were to show up) should have the spotlight.
But, anyway, update on my "wire cells". The lights were dimming and I'm seeing holes being eaten in the aluminum. Based on past experience, this was somewhat expected. I should have let these sit for a while before using them. So that's what I'm going to do at this point. I'll let them do what they will while not using them to power anything. I'll let the crystals establish themselves naturally for a bout a week. Then at that point, I'll probably add another couple layers of aluminum foil to reinforce and fill in where holes were eaten by galvanic processes. I guess then I'll also seal them with layers of paint.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Google on April 12, 2014, 01:09:07 AM
I read in a post that in early 1900s there was a company supplying batteries to telephone companies and the company had to close business as there were no repeat orders due to extremely long battery life. It didnt need recharging at all.

This is cystal cell thread but IMHO its relevant to mention it here.

Ultimately all crystal cells are galvanic in nature. They will never work in zero humidity.

 ;D
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 12, 2014, 09:08:16 AM
Semiconductors semiconduct without moisture. Aren't "dry crystal cells"  crystal-based semiconductors that bring in the ambient? Taking advantage of crystal growth pressure is one way to make extra energy, but don't they still produce with no moisture? Ibpointless seems to think so and apparently also lasersaber, who looks like he's planning to seal his 100-year motor in a glass display.

Moisture is needed, I think, to grow the crystals that you want to be the heart of the cell, but after the cell is adequately populated with actual crystal, I would think the moisture is no longer needed if one were to make these right. Am I wrong or right?

My mistake has been impatience, I believe. I failed to wait for the moisture to dissipate and seal up the cell before testing the cell, so it eats away the metal. Produces more power this way, but in the long run, this destroys it.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 12, 2014, 09:34:31 AM
Just had a sleepy thought I'll be pondering tomorrow after I've gotten some rest: computers use crystals for timing. They're not moist environments.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Google on April 12, 2014, 10:30:10 AM
O yeah ! Even some old diodes act as crystal cells in light.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on April 13, 2014, 02:59:31 AM
Semiconductors semiconduct without moisture. Aren't "dry crystal cells"  crystal-based semiconductors that bring in the ambient? Taking advantage of crystal growth pressure is one way to make extra energy, but don't they still produce with no moisture? Ibpointless seems to think so and apparently also lasersaber, who looks like he's planning to seal his 100-year motor in a glass display.

Moisture is needed, I think, to grow the crystals that you want to be the heart of the cell, but after the cell is adequately populated with actual crystal, I would think the moisture is no longer needed if one were to make these right. Am I wrong or right?

My mistake has been impatience, I believe. I failed to wait for the moisture to dissipate and seal up the cell before testing the cell, so it eats away the metal. Produces more power this way, but in the long run, this destroys it.


 You are totally right. The water is sealed into the crystal material. Especially epsom salts. Adding water only kills the process and encourages galvanic response. Once my aluminum has a coating of crystals it showed NO signs of galvanic response. The metal was shinny while looking through the crystals around the aluminum. Once the surfaces are coated with crystals you can start to build the crystal structure in between the electrodes. You want to stress the battery but not overstress it. It's like the muscle building method. This will build the crystals into a tighter more energetic transfer focus. I found that the cell once formed got stronger over time. But my cell was very wet and it was taking a month to even forge a connection between the aluminum and graphite electrodes. The mix i used was lacking and I really don't remember the mixture only that Borax, epsom salts and Mortons Salt substitute. What the mix ratio was I couldn't tell you now. But that combination seems to be the best from my experience when using aluminum and graphite.

 The jar I used for the cell was pretty big in the mouth. This made the outside electrode a good distance from the center graphite electrode. maybe 1 inch on all sides?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Google on April 13, 2014, 04:30:39 AM
Uncle JB, will the crystal cells work still, if you dehydrate the crystals 100 % ?

If your answer is yes, I bow down and accept you. If your answer is no, then you just have a galvanic cell, and wrongly calling it a crystal cell.  ;D

Google
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on April 13, 2014, 05:50:33 AM
A update on the 5 foot tall Crystal Cell powering a LCD clock. http://youtu.be/tTVXtBxyZD8


Still working on the cells.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Google on April 13, 2014, 06:09:12 AM
A update on the 5 foot tall Crystal Cell powering a LCD clock. http://youtu.be/tTVXtBxyZD8


Still working on the cells.

Is it a non galvanic cell in basic nature ? Thx for the video.  :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on April 13, 2014, 03:15:12 PM
Is it a non galvanic cell in basic nature ? Thx for the video.  :)


I honestly don't know what it is. All signs point to galvanic but it also does things that a normal galvanic don't. The safe answer would be to call it a galvanic cell and then be done for the day but certain things about the cells I make make me question everything. This is science, not knowing and experimenting is key to new things in our world.



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Google on April 13, 2014, 04:17:43 PM

I honestly don't know what it is. All signs point to galvanic but it also does things that a normal galvanic don't. The safe answer would be to call it a galvanic cell and then be done for the day but certain things about the cells I make make me question everything. This is science, not knowing and experimenting is key to new things in our world.

Thanks for the reply. Its interesting.A bigger cathode and anode surface area should give higher current for the same volts. Just an opinion. Whats your experience.

 :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 13, 2014, 06:49:54 PM
A bigger cathode and anode surface area should give higher current for the same volts. Just an opinion. Whats your experience.
I have found that to be true. Also, when you increase the size of the cathode and anode, you typically increase the amount of crystal. Also, by galvanic, do we mean, primarily deriving its electrical output from the chemical reaction that eats up the cathode and/or anode?

my update: My little cells are on day 2 of just sitting not doing anything on a shelf while I'm hoping the crystals will form better and water will disipate from them. Once they seem ready, I'm thinking of sealing them in maybe a glass jar with a small hole drilled in the top with two wires to bring out the cell output and superglue to seal the remaining hole.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 13, 2014, 07:22:55 PM
I had another thought. And it hurt,  :P  but in a good way.
Okay, wrap your noodles around this one. These cells respond to vibrations, be it heat, pressure on the cell, etc.. What if the "bottleneck" factor in how much our cells are producing is less about the amount of metal or crystal, but more about the amount of energy the crystals are being allowed to take as input? What if we added a leverage factor to amplify it? Like an antenna coming from the cell? Like hold the cell by the outside and let the anode stick way up like an antenna? Maybe the crystal cell could then convert more energy into usable current? Physically, we can guess that grasping the extended anode and pressing on it should give us some feedback, so also would wind, but maybe other energy waves as well? And then perhaps, something "cheaper" could be used as an antenna. For instance, if this idea worked to increase the current input/output to the cell, you could try not having the extra core material sticking out, but instead, weld whatever cheap materials to see if they increase the current by the same amount. No idea if this idea has any merit.

I'm sure I can't be the first to think of this. The Trawöger Power Pyramid might be based on a similar idea if I understand it right.I don't know with any certainty that the power pyramid isn't a fraud. There are often, I find, things put out there to mislead people into wasting time and resources. The "Federal" "Reserve" and its owners surely aren't the originators of that concept.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on April 13, 2014, 10:49:17 PM
Everybody is asking the wrong questions. You have 2 types of batteries - Battery_A is a normal battery that dies off - Battery_B is the opposite of Battery_A because it does not die. My goal for the crystal cells was to be Battery_B. I want a battery that did not die off and if it did it would recharge itself. So to make Battery_B you must ask what causes Battery_A to die?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 14, 2014, 02:45:26 AM
ibpointlees2;


On a slightly different subject,have you had any successes with using the Pb / PbO2 dry acid/lead battery
cores? I am trying to find the "secret" electrolyte that optimizes standing power. This is so I can compute
the ratio f(@electrolyte) = (standing power(@delta t) / avg. power discharge at C20 rate (@delta t). 
The two weak electrolyte batteries that I use for models are the Karpen's Pile and the Water Battery
that were discussed here on overunity.com. I suspect that strongly ionic solutions are required for
the storage battery function. These split the charge and discharge voltages apart and a responsible
for the determanistic storage function. By the way I consider that an Alum battery is a strong
electrolyte cell so the result may be weakly acidic but enough to preserve the storage function. I
liked your oil electrolyte but am trying to have one that I can rinse out and restore to sulphuric acid
or other electrolyte to restore cell function if I don't like the result.  I suspect that charge on the crystal
cell battery tend to travel on the surface of the crystal while the weak electrolyte battery will have current
scaling like that of acid/leads # plates and cell volume ect.  So I want to move up the Ah rate scale in different
size cores to see if this is so.  I doubt that the substitue electrolyte will produce cycle count and cycle depth
wear in the battery. If so then the weak electrolyte battery lifetime will equal shelf lifetime of the charged battery.
I was watching a video where Bedini charged this type of battery with his scalar charger when the whole Bedini
section was deleted from energeticforum.com. So I may be onto something. :-) Anyone else can chime in if
they know any secrets. Wanta see something really bizarre? type "dry charge batteries" into U.S. ebay.com
search function.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: ibpointless2 on April 14, 2014, 03:02:18 AM
ibpointlees2;


On a slightly different subject,have you had any successes with using the Pb / PbO2 dry acid/lead battery
cores? I am trying to find the "secret" electrolyte that optimizes standing power. This is so I can compute
the ratio f(@electrolyte) = (standing power(@delta t) / avg. power discharge at C20 rate (@delta t). 
The two weak electrolyte batteries that I use for models are the Karpen's Pile and the Water Battery
that were discussed here on overunity.com. I suspect that strongly ionic solutions are required for
the storage battery function. These split the charge and discharge voltages apart and a responsible
for the determanistic storage function. By the way I consider that an Alum battery is a strong
electrolyte cell so the result may be weakly acidic but enough to preserve the storage function. I
liked your oil electrolyte but am trying to have one that I can rinse out and restore to sulphuric acid
or other electrolyte to restore cell function if I don't like the result.  I suspect that charge on the crystal
cell battery tend to travel on the surface of the crystal while the weak electrolyte battery will have current
scaling like that of acid/leads # plates and cell volume ect.  So I want to move up the Ah rate scale in different
size cores to see if this is so.  I doubt that the substitue electrolyte will produce cycle count and cycle depth
wear in the battery. If so then the weak electrolyte battery lifetime will equal shelf lifetime of the charged battery.
I was watching a video where Bedini charged this type of battery with his scalar charger when the whole Bedini
section was deleted from energeticforum.com. So I may be onto something. :-) Anyone else can chime in if
they know any secrets. Wanta see something really bizarre? type "dry charge batteries" into U.S. ebay.com
search function.


:S:MarkSCoffman


Its best to stick with acid in those lead acid batteries. Alum and water will work but the way those pre-manufactured batteries are setup and configure is with sulfuric acid. Be careful with battery acid.


I looked into the ebay thing you pointed out and didn't see anything odd.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Mr. Teslonian on April 14, 2014, 03:19:16 AM
I had a junk 12V 7 Ah 10 year old SLA. It had zero volts, never took any charge.

I washed it with baking soda and rinsed with distilled water. Then I added a very concentrated hot solution of 99.99 percent purified Alum and distilled water. Put it on charge overnight.

It not only got charged but regains its voltage after every use without charging. And I know what I am saying.

Its a strange behaviour. But the battery acts like a spring, it regains its voltage to 11.9 to 12.5 after every use in 4 to 5 hours. It was amusing but it happened.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 14, 2014, 05:19:53 AM
Everybody is asking the wrong questions ..... So to make Battery_B you must ask what causes Battery_A to die?
First, IBPointless2, before I say anything, let me say, you'll never catch me ridiculing you.  I've watched all your videos. You've been more willing to talk at length honestly about these cells and your results than most of the people posting youtube vids. I can relate to your thinking. You've jump-started me really into these cells. Anyway, thanks for all you've done. I'm glad to see you haven't quit completely. I thought I'd seen the last of you on youtube there for a while. I actually need to watch your vids and others again because I think I'm forgetting a lot of what I should be keeping in mind about these things.

I got confused at first, when you say "die", you don't mean "drain" like a normal battery. I think you mean losing the "circuit pathway" within the battery. I'm just clarifying for those of us who think conventional battery when they hear the word "battery".

I think you've proven pretty well that what's causing the cells to die is, one of the things, is moisture, water, which causes the cell to feed from the metals, if I understand rightly. I wonder if you've seen some of Lasersaber's most recent videos about his 100-year setup (in name only). He doesn't seem concerned about either whether his cells will stop working after sealing them from outside moisture or whether moisture still in his cells (not necessarily detectable from the outside) will cause problems. Not to say I expect problems. I really don't know. He is using a different recipe than I've tried, but it seems to be working for him. My own results with sealing my cells up have been mostly bad, causing the cells to stop putting out anything at all after a while, but I probably let moisture play a part in those. Impatience.. In one of your videos you must have said over 20 times "just let them dry" :D  It still echos in my head sometimes.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 14, 2014, 07:46:27 AM
Allwest posted another vid, Magnesium battery testing on different mix cell designs. Still neither tells what's in it nor whether he'll ever tell, nor why or anything about it.... Why....? Does anyone here know Allwest?  I just want some closure. Is he ever going to release his stuff? Closure could be in the form of "yes he plans to eventually" or "no, he doesn't and his reasons are personal". Why is he so tight-lipped about everything? Is he holding out for people to pay to know what his ingredients are? Nothing wrong with that IMO even if I wouldn't do the same.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 14, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
Why don't we all have solar cells powering our homes right now? You should scrutinize your own personal answer to that question. Okay, then ask yourself why your neighbor doesn't. Why everyone else doesn't? Solar cells have gotten pretty cheap now. People's eyes are closed.
We shouldn't be hoarding knowledge when it's knowledge of things that can save all of us. We should be sharing it as loudly as possible. Get it out there. That way, when the internet is ceized and censored, liberty doesn't die, it's reborn, empowered by independence that free energy gives.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 16, 2014, 04:50:09 PM
Dear Mr. Tesolian,

Thank you very much for revisting this with me here! This is where I will begin.
I enjoy the thought of testing something while being able to easily scale it up
into larger battery frames without having to manufacture anything. Interestingly all
batteries tend to priced like commodities due to their very large composition of lead metal.
This means generally the best ones with the highest sales volumes are also the lowest priced!
I now feel better about mentally grouping chemical alum with crystal cell batteries.

By the way, I have noticed your many youtube vidoes and have been impressed with them.

---

@halfvulcan

I agree people should look to photocells. The problem is I live in an urban area. I would say
photovoltaics or windpower are not impossible here...one would simply have to pay additional
and ever increasing rent for using the space for photovoltaics.

By the way your "wire" crystal batteries are actual a good idea because they probably scale current in
milliamps foot or meter. Some of the challanges faced in manufaturing them would be similar to the
ones faced in manufacturing high temperature superconducting cable.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 17, 2014, 08:26:11 AM
A update on the 5 foot tall Crystal Cell powering a LCD clock. http://youtu.be/tTVXtBxyZD8


Still working on the cells.
It is awesome to see that still going. So, any new developments in your research? I mean, are the last cell types you talked about in your youtube videos still what you're pursuing most in the crystal cells or trying other recipes? I need to look back again, but I think you said something similar to what I'm doing now with the thin paper layer rubbed in epsom and substitute was what you're pursuing, with very low amps. Makes sense to me. I think it's the nature of these dry crystal cells to have very low amps when they're just operating from the crystals and not from the galvanic metal-eating. And we don't want the chemical reaction of the metal being eaten away because that makes these finite, when we're looking for something closer to infinite.
I'll be trying some of the other recipes out there soon. I seem to remember you dropped one of those other ingredients, maybe it was alum or borax, from your cells for some reason, like you found out it wasn't necessarily helping. I really don't know why those are popular ingredients in these, but Lasersaber, another guy smarter than myself, uses them, so I gotta give it a try.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 18, 2014, 12:17:27 AM
Update on my own thing.
As mentioned, I didn't make these copper wire core cells correctly to begin with. I didn't give them enough time to dry before puttting the outer aluminum around them. But, I allowed more time to dry now, then dismantled the ones that seem dead or weak (lacking voltage or less than .1 milliamps). The ones that survived, 16 of them, are showing between .2 and .4 milliamps,  less milliamps than when they were new and metal-eating galvanic. After giving them plenty more time to dry and grow their crystals, I saw spots of dark crystal bubbles that forced themselves out through the aluminum foil. I put an additional foil layer around the existing foil of each cell . Then I put 3 series groups of 5 in parallel, and put those in a sealed glass jar powering my led bicycle lights. Not as much voltage or amps as last time with this setup. The lights are supposed to run on 3 volts, but my voltage from the cells is 2.88, which should be fine I think, but because of the lower amps than before, the lights are a bit dimmer. So, we'll see. I found a huge glass jar in the attic of my house that was perfect for this. I didn't trust the seal around the lid, so I melted some soft candle wax into it to make a good seal.
For more information about these kinds of cells, I'd say look up Ibpointless2's Youtube videos. He's documented some of his crystal cells so well that even a beginner can follow it.
My results are typically the outcome if you do things wrong. Crystal cells have proven to have potential for unending power. They're almost ready to deliver just that. The typical problem seen with them is keeping them from degrading due to chemical processes over time.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 18, 2014, 03:29:58 AM

Crystal cells have proven to have potential for unending power. They're almost ready to deliver just that. The typical problem seen with them is keeping them from degrading due to chemical processes over time.


halfvulcan,

You should keep going. Cable and wire making manufacturing has been going on for a long time.
So you could get lots of ideas, at least, in how to perform certain functions. All you need is a core material
formulation. It's especially true if you have the battery retain wire's flexibility. You could wind it on a coil form.
I would certainly buy some if it was available. All someone has to do is build some and everyone will want it.
I also think you should take my advice and try higher electronegativity metal foils to see if you can get the voltage
up.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on April 18, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Why don't we all have solar cells powering our homes right now? You should scrutinize your own personal answer to that question. Okay, then ask yourself why your neighbor doesn't. Why everyone else doesn't? Solar cells have gotten pretty cheap now. People's eyes are closed.
We shouldn't be hoarding knowledge when it's knowledge of things that can save all of us. We should be sharing it as loudly as possible. Get it out there. That way, when the internet is ceized and censored, liberty doesn't die, it's reborn, empowered by independence that free energy gives.


 Now they are bringing out new tariffs on solar setups. They want 5 bucks/month to pay to the power companies for maintenance and such. Even when you are selling the power back to them they are now putting charges on that. I mean now it is 5 a month how much will it be next year or the year after that? No matter what you do they have their hand out. I thought they charged the customer for line maintenance and not the supplier? Maybe it is both, Is this double dipping?

 As for IBpointless2 Well I trust him explicitly. Especially when it comes to real Crystal batteries.

 Allwest has a formula that he has chosen to keep a mystery. I think in one of his videos he tells why. He is applying for a patent I believe. Thats within his rights. Not everything is open sourced and if he is showing some great results like he is then I would start thinking the same way. I wish Allwest all the best and GREAT work my friend.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 18, 2014, 04:46:17 PM

Now they are bringing out new tariffs on solar setups. They want 5 bucks/month to pay to the power companies for maintenance and such. Even when you are selling the power back to them they are now putting charges on that. I mean now it is 5 a month how much will it be next year or the year after that? No matter what you do they have their hand out. I thought they charged the customer for line maintenance and not the supplier? Maybe it is both, Is this double dipping?


Once the electrical utility companies get the idea about what they are up against these payments for power sharing are
going to go the way of a July snowfall. I would encourage everyone who purchases a utility line interactive inverter front end
to make sure that their inverter can function in stand-alone as well as line-interactive mode as an option then to "make hay
while the sun shines".
 

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on April 18, 2014, 04:51:56 PM

 Now they are bringing out new tariffs on solar setups. They want 5 bucks/month to pay to the power companies for maintenance and such. Even when you are selling the power back to them they are now putting charges on that. I mean now it is 5 a month how much will it be next year or the year after that? No matter what you do they have their hand out. I thought they charged the customer for line maintenance and not the supplier? Maybe it is both, Is this double dipping?

 As for IBpointless2 Well I trust him explicitly. Especially when it comes to real Crystal batteries.

 Allwest has a formula that he has chosen to keep a mystery. I think in one of his videos he tells why. He is applying for a patent I believe. Thats within his rights. Not everything is open sourced and if he is showing some great results like he is then I would start thinking the same way. I wish Allwest all the best and GREAT work my friend.

Thanks
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on April 18, 2014, 05:49:17 PM
Once the electrical utility companies get the idea about what they are up against these payments for power sharing are
going to go the way of a July snowfall. I would encourage everyone who purchases a utility line interactive inverter front end
to make sure that their inverter can function in stand-alone as well as line-interactive mode as an option then to "make hay
while the sun shines".


 I agree. In fact they are making that no one will want to sell it back. Why is that? They are not in the business of buying. They are mostly in the business of levying fees for delivery not paying for freely available energy.


 I hope you are right about the lifespan of these fees especially for the ones who are smart enough to generate for their own purposes and sell the excess back to help relive the burden associated with all the bad generating schemes out there. My guess is that they will only increase the fees especially when we want to share the relief these newer technologies bring to us in power availability and pollution or environmental issues associated with the generation of energy. I don't think they are interested in our well being. The only thing they want is to generate streams of income and the bottom line. The only way to get around this was being experimented on by Tesla, for which they took out very quickly once they knew it's purpose.


 It doesn't matter then really if we generate our own for our own use. If you want to share the excess there is no reason why you couldn't share with your neighbor is there? Create your own neighborhood or community system and bypass them completely. But you have to do this is a very different way. You can not use wires to do this because they have LAWS or Regulations prohibiting this. One way to negate that is not to use wires at all and that goes back to Tesla. But I digress.


 Keep up with this study guys! It is very very important to know where this power is coming from.


 Here is a good reference to start understanding the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zc0ICPoqlM


 Understand that matter is the key here. As we are seeing matter has a unique connection to all the energy of the Universe.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 18, 2014, 08:06:33 PM
The same system that hands out patents is controlled by the people opposed to people having free power.  :/ And that's all I'll say about that.

The wire I'm using is pretty stiff. It's solid copper wire. I'm not sure the guage, but it's just a hair more in diameter when compared to the thickness of a quarter. Anyway, it's nothing special, just the form of copper I had on hand. I'm just a poor man. Really, a very poor man. I'm not a manufacturer.

As for "sharing the energy", look, when you're tied to the electric grid using power from a power plant, you're using power like mad. Meanwhile, all this energy passing by us from the sun is just passing by. It's wasted. If you choose to STOP using power from the grid and attempt to invest the time and effort to do this difficult thing, to get power from the sun, you're no longer using power from the grid. They now have a surplus because of you. And you're now independent. You've just "given back" some of that power you used to use to your fellow people. For people to now demand you share your power you've gone through such lengths to get is just stupid and socialistic, as if you have no rightful claim to that which you've rightfully acquired. As if someone claims to own you or your property. This is not freedom and I would say a life is not worth living without freedom.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on April 18, 2014, 09:56:05 PM
The same system that hands out patents is controlled by the people opposed to people having free power.  :/ And that's all I'll say about that.

The wire I'm using is pretty stiff. It's solid copper wire. I'm not sure the guage, but it's just a hair more in diameter when compared to the thickness of a quarter. Anyway, it's nothing special, just the form of copper I had on hand. I'm just a poor man. Really, a very poor man. I'm not a manufacturer.

As for "sharing the energy", look, when you're tied to the electric grid using power from a power plant, you're using power like mad. Meanwhile, all this energy passing by us from the sun is just passing by. It's wasted. If you choose to STOP using power from the grid and attempt to invest the time and effort to do this difficult thing, to get power from the sun, you're no longer using power from the grid. They now have a surplus because of you. And you're now independent. You've just "given back" some of that power you used to use to your fellow people. For people to now demand you share your power you've gone through such lengths to get is just stupid and socialistic, as if you have no rightful claim to that which you've rightfully acquired. As if someone claims to own you or your property. This is not freedom and I would say a life is not worth living without freedom.


 I agree also but we are free people so don't down on someone that wants to make sure that others don't abuse their ideas. There is a legitimate reason for patenting.


 As for the solar issue I have become aware of "Them" using code to shut down people who become totally off grid. The code department is being used to create problems for people who have become independent with no check or balance to make sure it can't be abused. So it isn't the system per say but the ones in power who abuse the system and our rights. I agree about the freedom aspect but you see what happens to freedom and rights when the ones in power abuse the system to make it impossible to live free. The case of the Nevada rancher is prime example of abuse of power in the USA. This is a much wider problem and happens all the time in our society. Until we stand up and refuse these encroachments on our freedoms then all this becomes just words.


 Now back to the discussion about crystal batteries. I too used wire for the external coil and a pretty decent gauge as well. It was artist aluminum wire. Pretty solid and pure aluminum with a center artist quality graphite rod. The rod was about 1/4 inch or near there. I only got a volt difference but it was a pretty good amount for the material I was using. It ran the diode I was using from a shakeup flashlight. I did not use the supercap that was included on the little circuit board but I could charge it from the crystal cell then power the light for a limited period from the supercap. again attached to this post here is the picture of the setup. The electrodes both aluminum and graphite was a bit too far away from each other I am guessing to maintain the potential for extended periods, like over a month.

 Now all that setup wasn't in the picture. I had 3 different types of crystal batteries and 1 experimental carbon aluminum battery. Of course the carbon aluminum battery ate itself apart but the crystal batteries basically would discharge to the point that they gave little voltage potential but if I let it rest for a few hours they would recharge themselves and continue to provide light for many many hours. I think the total voltage was around 3 volts from all they types of batteries I had. Well 2.7v or so...
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mojobuddha on April 18, 2014, 11:33:03 PM
Hello.

I'm a little new to this.  I am very interested in the idea of crystal batteries. 
I am very impressed with the big ibp2 cell design.
I am also very interested in the concept of applying pressure to increase output.   
I have been trying to think of a way to create a cell that could resist a weight.   
I am concerned that the hollow copper tubing would flatten over time under a cinderblock.
Possible solutions:
Copper foil tape wrapped around a wooden or plastic dowel. Covered in the crystal paper. Then wrapped in magnesium ribbon. Cover in electrical tape and finish.
If the importance of the metal is the amount of surface area touching then copper foil may work great and be very cost effective. The wooden or plastic dowel would create a solid core in a very cost effective manner .

Another idea along the same lines is take a wooden dowel and a carpenter pencil.  Draw a tight coil spiraling up the dowel.  The. Proceed as above. 
This minimalist approach to graphite usage could be enhanced by the many loops in the coil.   A graphite lead could be attached by taping a small piece of carpenter graphite to the end of the coil.

Then the cells could be laid side by side in a box and connected.  (Correct me if I'm wrong: +to+, -to- and so on.)a plate could be added to distribute the weight and a block could be added to the top of th plate.  If designed correctly these boxes could be stacked together in layers and connected together and the weight could be added on top so that the use of weight could be minimized as well. 
I'm planning on trying this.  Any suggestions?

Thank you


Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 19, 2014, 07:36:28 AM
As for that side-topic, I recommend the writings of Lysander Spooner.
I need to figure out if people are coming to the same conclusions I've been coming to after much time researching these cells. Water in the cells causes the galvanic reaction which temporarily ups the amps a lot, but eats the metals away and kills the cells, but the "magic" of these cells isn't the galvanic power we get from them. It's that, if you make a cell that lasts long enough (doesnt eat itself), you see it producing power from the crystals for years. Ibpointless has talked pretty clearly about his research on this. The water is the bad thing for these cells longevity. To see the real crystal power, you have to get a cell to grow the crystals and then operate from those. A dry cell in other words. They'll produce less power per cell for sure without the additional galvanic action, but the crystal battery lasts longer and you're operating then purely based on the piezo crystal action. Anyone can make a galvanic battery, and yeah they make amps and volts, but when they run out of juice, that's it, unless you recharge them or replenish the fluids or something. Crystal cells are "forever" (as long as the cell is in good condition). Do my words make sense to anyone? i may even be using some terms wrong. When I say galvnic, I usually mean, "metal-eating".

Not to say we can't eventually solve the corrosion problem and use wet crystal cells. Some cells may have solved that to some degree, I don't know. I'm thinking of John Bedini's light that he sells. If I rmember right, you add some water and the light runs a good while. I don't know whether those suffer from the corrosion problem, but I imagine they do. But are those things actually working from the crystal action or galvanic or are they acting as a fuel cell that basically just uses water? I need to figure out eventually.

Anyway, my instincts have been guiding me toward the dry crystal cells as those are the ones that are most likely giving us that longer-lasting crystal power.

And day 2, crystal cells sealed in a jar with led lights. Still shining. It may be my imagination, but they seem maybe even brighter than yesterday.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 19, 2014, 02:48:20 PM
Dear friend ,
Galvonic is an effect of science. its caused by a electron difference in the atoms of the anode and cathode. Galconic corrosion will happen regardless if the Cell (tics)(for some reason I can't delet that) dry or wet the corrosion will take place. Its just a matter of time

As a cell's electrodes move up the galvonic scale in nobility they will corrode less and less and as a catch they have less power .

Its just a matter of money per cell and what combination will give you the best "bang for you buck "

All the best
Jon
PS great work!!!!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 19, 2014, 02:53:28 PM
Pps both words are galvonic this site gets so many viewers my fisher price PC can't keep up lol

All the best
Jon
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on April 19, 2014, 03:25:07 PM



 That cell I show above and ZERO galvanic response even though it has a lot of liquid in it. This was because I treated the aluminum with a borax coating. The process was this. I heated the aluminum up to quite a hot level. Then I sprayed on a borax solution which once it hit the aluminum puffed up like foam. Once the whole thing was coated I placed the aluminum Wire coil in the oven and baked the coating on for 1/2 to 1 hour till it turned golden brown. I then let it cool for an hour and inserted it into the glass jar. I proceeded to add more borax epsom salts, alum, and mortons salt substitute (potassium). and boiled the whole jar in a pan. When this heated up the mixture it started to combine all the ingredients. Once the solution was clear I took it out of the water bath and placed it on a board that I use for chopping. After that I inserted the graphite lead into the center and used a clothespin to hold the center electrode in place. The measurement was done after it had cooled and was starting to crystallize I measured the voltage of the cell.


 There was zero Galvanic response in the cell. Both the Aluminum and graphite showed ZERO effects. The aluminum actually had crystals growing on them and it stayed shiny and pit free. After I had it running for 1 month or so. I decided to dissect the cell to have a closer inspection because the crystals grew to a point that they obscured everything inside of the jar. Everything looked as good as the day I put the cell together. So my take on this is that if you can find a way to protect the metal like I had found it means there will be little or no corrosion from galvanics.


 Now comes the point really. All objects have a standing potential. If you devise a way to connect the two different materials using a crystalline material with Ordered water included in the crystal matrix then it will transfer energy without galvanics. The crystal material is the connection and we all know crystals can conduct and oscillate as in radio engineering. I chose aluminum because when it oxidizes it protects itself with a crystal layer automatically. This crystal layer is an Oxide of aluminum and this oxide can be used as an conductive interface.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 19, 2014, 03:43:20 PM
fascinating stuff man
I know exactly what your talking about as far as crystal and radio wave interaction but there is a way to test for that and diclude the galvonic energy generation effect and what you could do is sheald the cell from emf radio and other wave leanghts to see if the current will change

And I love the boarax coating I'm going to try that if you don't mind

All the best
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 19, 2014, 04:04:16 PM
PS
Or also if you want to build a new cell to test the radio wave effect you could try and use the same metals as the electrodes and negate the entire galvonic effect all together
(Just a thought )
Jon
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 19, 2014, 10:00:27 PM
Note to self: can't delete posts.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 19, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
It takes some tinkering before you'll convince yourself these crystal cells are real. I haven't been the most scientific perhaps, but I can tell you I've proven it to myself. I just dont have it documented to show you the proof unfortunately. I wanted to add, I made some wire-based dry crystal cells some months ago and used red plastic drinking straws and superglue to seal them from outside moisture. Suddenly they lost ALL POWER within hours, maybe minutes. They wouldn't put out anything. I took the straws off and suddenly they worked again. Not just one. This was with about 4 cells. Same effect with all of them. I intend to try this again eventually because that blew my mind. I have no idea why that would happen unless there's something about the straws that was somehow blocking the energy the crystals need. And thanks for explaining about your coating method. That's amazing. I'll be trying that.

Okay, what JH is doing maybe isn't the same as a crystal cell, but thought it would be interesting to us. Notice he mentioned that he "coated the wire", "pickled" it. That is somewhat significant I bet, or else he wouldn't have bothered with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9OpWJz13w . This guy comes off a complete lunatic at times, but he seems to be legit.

More on subject, linking to one of IBPointless' videos if he doesn't mind. This is some data that Ibpointless was awesome to provide to prove what he already had proven to himself pretty thoroughly by this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH5NGKpRw0E . But also, I recommend a look at all his crystal cell videos. It helped me.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 20, 2014, 01:37:48 AM
Crystal cells are real. There is nothing wrong per se with galvanic reactions. Life needs water to ionize and dissolve solids, then those
ions and particles spread out in the water evening out their own densities so that other processes can pick them up. Water is
the great ionizer. Ions are used in a battery for charge mobility. The problem is it is difficult to stop the process and protect
the metal poles of the battery. I was wondering if there are any other fluids that ionize but might be easier to control than water.

Those hydrate cells where people add small amounts of water may be piezo pressure based. Lazersabre says his cells are slowly
ejecting their electrodes as the water gets converted to additional OH hydrate material. I think the initial copper oxide layer they
put on those copper bowls will protect them from water corrosion.

Crystal Cells work on something called Petrolithic energy. Rock crystal energy. Stars like the Sun cannot fuse Hydrogen to Hydrogen
directly so the they use a side reaction called the positron-electron-positron II pathway. This produces PEP-II neutrinos. Those
reaction equations in physics have to balance just like chemical equations do. PEP-II neutrinos carry away the angular momentum
from particle spin from the star reaction. Neutrinoes are like ghost particles they don't interact with matter hardly at all, Except
it's like tuning a radio, if a reaction needs just the right energy then bamo the reaction goes ahead with just the energy it needs.
It's like a radiant field, buts its not a real field, its these particles. Put 200 atmospheres of hydrogen into a metal tank to tune it
and bamo neutrons come out it. I suspect this is the driving force for LENR reactions generally.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 20, 2014, 01:56:00 AM
I've come to the realization that how or why they work really doesn't matter but if we all work together to find cheap/free/renewable energy, does it really matter?
 because at the "finish line" no one will really care how or why

And as I read these comments I bet there's more knowledge on just this post then any university combined

 Please let's stop asking why and start passing the finish line

Thanks
Jon
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on April 20, 2014, 02:21:34 AM



Yeah, I think this is a great thing. Imagine how many of the PM machines on overunity.com would work, if you could just add some
magic wire.  ;)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 20, 2014, 02:40:15 AM
You're an instagator mscoffman we should get a beer some time I believe we may just be able to crip the fabric of time space or at the very least have a few laughs at others expense  ;D
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jonfrommanahawkin1 on April 20, 2014, 02:41:43 AM
rip* this website kills me lol
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on April 21, 2014, 05:24:44 AM
Happy Easter to All.

I want to testify (a few posts ago) that I ALSO see the effect that when the cell is locked air tight it usually dies pretty fast and once you open she comes alive again. I have MANY cells that works like that and some I gave up trying to air tight them. They have been the best ones.

My mother came this year in January to visit me and she asked about this bunch of "things" on the corner of my lab. I said they were "dead" cells on their "cemetery" waiting for recycling.

So I took one and put a few drops of water (the cell was about 2 years old) and the baby came to life. My mother loved and took it to Brasil. Still shinning in her living room as bright as before. She only adds a drop of water every month or so.

It is mind bending those cells. Air tight is indeed a mystery to me that I had not a chance to test still. I have SOOOOO many cells that I have been testing for the last 3 years, day in and day out non stop. Hundreds of formulas by now. Some very very cool and long lasting like nothing out there (except Ms Marcus Reed). Those are definitely galvanic BUT with a very extended life span. 3 years minimum. Very small cells too.

I have not read the last 9 pages (i think) but just jumped in to confirm the "air phenomena".

One of the cells I am working now as a sequence of my learning is the "water holding" mechanism. Make the cell air tight but maintain the little initial moisture inside. You will need something to hold the water "outside" the crystal formation.

Many are confused of the function of the crystal. The crystal is not for the water holding. The crystal is the conductor and energy extractor of the machine. The crystal allows the flow of the energy via the galvanic reaction, BUT, it reduces the reaction tremendously and effectively extends the life of it to times of nothing like out there commercially.

A regular electrolyte (as many commercial cells have) is ok to start the "galvanic process". The crystal reduces it and keeps it going to a minimum keeping the distance of the two electrodes as if they were very far from each other. This causes the internal resistance to increase but not to the loss of power. The "ion movement" as one would explain the galvanic reaction mechanism is just part of the puzzle.

Too much water WILL KILL the cell, too little will reduce the power and the correct balance will perform greatly. Holding the water and releasing automatically at the correct amount IS CRUCIAL.

Too much crystal growth will kill the cell for "starvation of water". The crystal will grow on the water. Water is her food. No good. Crystal is good for the structure of the energy flow. CRUCIAL.

Watch some of my videos of the crystal formation. Try to look them at the microscopic level. The formation is something really interesting. The crystal grows and grows and grows. Metals grows the same. Rocks grows the same. Why??? Where the energy comes from to make them grow? See?

Direct that growth energy towards the energy flow and not towards the galvanic flow. Galvanic is simply excess of energy left over that destroys the cell. Galvanic may be impossible to stop but can be reduced to 99%, yes it can.

Think in terms of Crystal growth. Crystal growth = less galvanic and vice-versa.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 23, 2014, 09:20:38 PM
I've come to the realization that how or why they work really doesn't matter but if we all work together to find cheap/free/renewable energy, does it really matter?
Discovery of something often happens by accident. Perfecting it accidentally is more difficult.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on April 27, 2014, 01:48:30 AM
Yeah, I didn't mean to sound critical about the above comment.  Actually, there's nothing wrong to getting free energy working before you know how it's working. So long as it isn't irradiating your neighbors or something or changing the weather or killing all the honey bees or spilling toxic chemicals into the environment or invading foreign countries or knocking over buildings with people inside... There may be more examples, but you get the point.
My little copper-wire cells trapped in a glass jar with some LEDS are stil going. The light is still on. It's been.. I forget how long now. Over a week? Sealed up pretty good, I think. I made the mistake of doubting the seal on day 3 or so and started to loosen it before retightening and heard air hissing I think.  I can't be sure though. So there may be pressure build-up in the jar. Which I would have expected based on what people have said about these.  I just wish I'd have been expecting it when I did that so I would have listened closer for it.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on May 16, 2014, 02:53:50 AM
My dry copperwire, salt crystal and salt substitute aluminum foil cells are doing better than ever right now. Still going after, I think, a month.
Be aware, what I'm doing here are just basic salt crystal cells. Some advice from more intelligent people earlier in this thread will yield likely much better results, so read those. I'll be trying some of those, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
So here's the history: Got the largest copper wire I have here. I have some old wire that I got when I was cleaning up the back yard of my grandfather's old place. I never have looked at what guage it is, but it's probably typical ac wire used in construction. So, I cut that to about 8-inch lengths and cut off the insulation. Made the mix of equal amounts of epsom salt and salt substitute in water.  I cut some newspaper strips 2" by 8" each. 1 at a time, rolled those into the salt solution and wrapped as tightly as possible around wire without breaking newspaper strip. They'll feel soggy and moldable, so I roll them in my hands until they feel pretty round. It drips and you'll sometimes splash around a bit. If you do it, don't get this stuff in your eyes. If you do, rinse your eyes well with water. Yes, I learned this the hard way. :D  I left those alone for a couple days. Then I had strips of aluminum that I wrapped around them. I used small flexible insulated wire to wrap around tightly as a way of getting the foil as tight as possible against the newspaper all the way around down the entire length of the cell. When finished, unwrapped the small wire. So, now I test to see what the voltage is. If the voltage isn't at least half a volt for an aluminum-copper salt cell, I call it bad. But I don't give up yet. I've found that putting the "bad" ones in a toaster oven on high for a few minutes "wakes them up and probably starts up bad chemical processes too, but with time, maybe that goes away. My goal in that moment is just to get the cell working since it's no good for sure if I don't.  The heat forces some remaining moisture in the cell to steam and mix things up a bit and usually gets things going up to the expected voltage from then on. Then I give the cells a day or so longer to dry out in case they still need it. Then I test them again to determine which ones really are bad at this point. Then I hook them in parallel and series to get the amount of amps and volts I need to power the small thing I plan to power. In this case, a bicycle light kit, that's two LEDs requiring 3 volts. Also, at some point, these do develop holes in the outer aluminum foil as the chemical processes present in the cells early on are initially pretty strong. It's even possible based on my observations, that the extra aluminum layer helps reduce later bad chemical processes by helping seal out the moisture a bit more. I could be totally wrong on that, but it seems to be true so far.

Then, I also had, I thought, sealed them in a jar. The problem is, I don't think the jar was completely sealed, so there goes any conclusions I might draw from attempting that. But, I started noticing the lights were dimming after a couple weeks. So I took everything out of the jar. No immediate change happened, but the next day, I noticed the lights were lit up brightly again. And that ws weeks ago. They're brighter than ever right now. I won't touch them until they go out, if they ever do.
At this point I'm thinking maybe these are the best little cells I've made. If in fact the jar's seal was holding, could it be that depriving these cells of... Whatever a sealed jar would deprive them of, until they were nearly dead, then letting them out, is a good thing for them? I don't know. But, that's a theory. Could just be moisture. Could be something else.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on May 16, 2014, 03:02:36 AM
Mscoffman, what you said is so far above my knowledge, but it sounds like you have all this figured out. I may memorize that whole paragraph just so when frinds are skeptical about these, I can answer with something that sounds intelligent.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on May 16, 2014, 03:06:05 PM




halfvulcan;

On your battery cells, just remeber there is water in the air is in the form of humidity. Those hydrate cells require the addition
of a few drops of water now and then. So these are not pure galvanic cells but seem to work on partially galvanic mechanisms.
Marcus Reid crystal cells seem fully sealed.

---

As far as the principle of operation, What you can do is take a term from my explaination and look it up in wikipedia
and Google and see what it says about the term. These are all recognized scientific information, but they are put together in an
somewhat unusual way, but thats what makes scientific information valuable. Neutrino particles are highly ellusive but they also
allow SuperNova events to explode outward rather than collapse. Look up how scientist detect neutrinoes. Then go
on to the next term. I tend to dislike the situation where people have their own theories of how things operate but I've tried
to stick with existing science and found this seems to work out well end to end. I tend to dislike Quantum "explainations"
because quantum is everywhere in everything. I've put these things in my own words but they are actually rexpressions of what
other people have said of things they were looking at.


Some surpising information:


(1) Neutrinoes drive SuperNova explosions to to completetion.
(2) Neutrinoes can traverse a light year of water with less than 50% interaction rate.
(3) Conditions in Stars are not sufficient to fuse hydrogen atoms directly.
(4) When hydrogen is compressed to 200 atmospheres pressure in a metal tank. Neutrons comes out of it.
(5) There are billions of neutrinoes traversing the human body every second.


:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on May 21, 2014, 04:26:15 AM
my friends,

I am very happy to confirm a very long test study of a cell that indeed IS NOT CORROSIVE and provides constant undertermined  run time. So far I am successfully able to have a miserable .6 ma (yes less than one milliamp) of current at over one hundred ohm resistance for an area of 1" square. Thickness of metals is irrelevant, they will not corrode at all. PERIOD. So I could use a 1/100 of an millimeter thick metal if I can find that.

Crystal structure IS CRUCIAL for water retention and energy flow. Indeed the crystal structure holds the water moisture inside of the cell and inside of the crystal itself. Crystal structure must be very low resistance. Many materials can be used including carbon.

Water retention can be with epson salts or alum or even other more complex chemicals such tetas, hexas or higher salts.

Initial start up of the cell is with water. Cell must dry out until it will DIE. That is the beginning of its new life. Depending of the mix I use it can be from 1 month up to 6 months until she is ready to run "forever".

Geometry is crucial again. Stacking does work up to a limit of current. Voltage works fine with stacking but current is limited now I believe because of the internal resistance.

This is an amazing finding of mine after 5 years studying this babies. Corrosion tricks us into believing it is only corrosion BUT water in excess is deceiving. One must control the water RETENTION, AVAILABILITY for the electrolyte and CRYSTAL GROWTH STRUCTURE.

I know, many must be thinking "come on Fausto, tells us the formula". Well, I just did. It is not about the chemicals really, it is about the PHYSICAL structure.

For example, use Epson salts in 5/10 ration, Alum 3/10, Carbon 1/20 and some form of water holder (Gelatin???), this will give you a good beginning of an electrolyte/crystal formula. Use Copper and Magnesium. Magnesium is great for power output but it is a pain to control corrosion. It either works or dies pretty quickly. I have Magnesium cells running FOR YEARS. There is plenty of corrosion visible but as time pass, less it forms and more power comes out.

If you use Copper and "other metals", you will have to change the whole electrolyte mixture to accommodate the difference in potential of the metals and its resulting internal resistance. It is a new world now. New studies and new tests. Months of tests to be honest.

Watching the discharge CURVE IS ESSENTIAL for understanding the long run process and its relation to corrosion. Some cells are simply weird to say the least others are classical asymptomatic down curves, which means pure corrosion.

Another very important finding is the build up (thouggg) of oxidization on the surface of one metal or both. This will kill the cell if the electrolyte is not the correct one. Some people use depolarizes here, but this is THE WRONG PATH. No depolarizes, no, no, no. Avoid the oxidation at all costs. One example is the Bedini Magnesium/Alum cell. That cell has no oxidation on the surface of the Magnesium which gives the "false impression" of no corrosion. No discoloration of the electrolyte either, BUT, it is corrosive to the max. I know, I have done it many times.

It is definitely the write path, but avoid the corrosion (off course, isn't this the whole point??).

Now here is one secret to the sauce, pay attention, the metal other than the copper must be very strong, very strong, very strong, hard, very hard, no ZInc, no Magnesium, no Aluminum, they are too soft and "weak", they give up to easily to corrosive process (redox). You must use something that likes water.

Soon I will post a running cell on a video in youtube.

Fausto.

examples: https://www.facebook.com/fausto.heikkinen/posts/1421717931423874



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on May 26, 2014, 03:41:41 PM
Is plengo THE John Bedini?  :o If so, awesome, I'm not worthy, etc. :)
I just wanted to update people on my little experiment, again, nothing new, more or less following IBPointless' which is based on, actually I don't know. It would be nice to know who discovered what along the way to give proper credit. I know John Bedini and people he works with have made amazing discoveries, then there's John Hutchison and his crystal cells, then there are thousands of people just trying different things.. . I know there's controversy and data and more controversy. I just do the experiments that don't require me to spend more money until I can get on my feet.

But, one thing I wanted to mention is the very next day after my last update, the bike light kit powered by my cells began to dim noticeably, until by the day after that, you had to look at them very caarefully in a pitch black room to tell they were on. I was figuring that was the end drawing near for this latest experiment. Then, a couple days after that, they began to get brighter again, until a week later, they were again as bright as they've ever been, and they've been shining that brightly ever since, for I guess about the last week. This is a phenomenon I know IBPointless has mentioned in his videos, and I seem to remember other people mention this as well. This phenomenon in which the crystal cell nearly shuts itself down as if it has to "sleep", to fully recharge. I think I've observed it in some previous crystal cell experiments, but it was hard to say based on other things I had been doing with those previous cells. These cells are simply sitting left alone on a shelf with the lights, so it becomes clear that this is interesting and most likely reproducable behavior if I were to make more cells similar to these. Anyway, like I said, this seems to be a known behavior for these, so nothing new to people already experimenting with these. Just new to me. I just geek out about it. Such evidence that these are bringing in power from outside. They nearly completely stop, then completely come back to full by themselves. That's energy from outside the crystal cell, being brought in to power the circuit by the crystal cell. In other words, it's not being charged by us, and it's not what was stored originally in the crystal cell.

Another thought: You know on Star Trek, dilithium crystals? Did they know about this property of crystals? Has this knowledge been fairly common, just not explored much? I wouldn't bug John Bedini himself with a question like this one. Just whoever wants to chime in.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on May 26, 2014, 05:12:05 PM
Hi Half,
Happy holiday

The cell you describe sounds interesting, this is one of the problems with testing these types of cells, it takes a very long time before they tell you what they will do, years of testing

There has been many that have stated that there cells have died just to come back at a later time, I don't think any body knows why yet, that would take a battery of constant test on a cell for a very long time
Some say moisture levels raised, some say heat changes

True crystals have a property of there own, I don't know anybody but Hutchison that has worked with true crystals

Sorry to say, I am in the camp that if you are using different metals in a cell then it is a form of a galvanic cell, given is the fact that some of these cells show special properties not normally seen in a galvanic cell, but as all galvanic cells corrode, these types of cells will eventually corrode also, lower the power lower the corrosion

If you are trying to create a true crystal cell, then you should work with the same metals to read from

Just some thoughts on a holiday     

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on May 26, 2014, 06:11:31 PM
Is plengo THE John Bedini?  :o If so, awesome, I'm not worthy, etc. :)
I just wanted to update people on my little experiment, again, nothing new, more or less following IBPointless' which is based on, actually I don't know. It would be nice to know who discovered what along the way to give proper credit. I know John Bedini and people he works with have made amazing discoveries, then there's John Hutchison and his crystal cells, then there are thousands of people just trying different things.. . I know there's controversy and data and more controversy. I just do the experiments that don't require me to spend more money until I can get on my feet.

But, one thing I wanted to mention is the very next day after my last update, the bike light kit powered by my cells began to dim noticeably, until by the day after that, you had to look at them very caarefully in a pitch black room to tell they were on. I was figuring that was the end drawing near for this latest experiment. Then, a couple days after that, they began to get brighter again, until a week later, they were again as bright as they've ever been, and they've been shining that brightly ever since, for I guess about the last week. This is a phenomenon I know IBPointless has mentioned in his videos, and I seem to remember other people mention this as well. This phenomenon in which the crystal cell nearly shuts itself down as if it has to "sleep", to fully recharge. I think I've observed it in some previous crystal cell experiments, but it was hard to say based on other things I had been doing with those previous cells. These cells are simply sitting left alone on a shelf with the lights, so it becomes clear that this is interesting and most likely reproducable behavior if I were to make more cells similar to these. Anyway, like I said, this seems to be a known behavior for these, so nothing new to people already experimenting with these. Just new to me. I just geek out about it. Such evidence that these are bringing in power from outside. They nearly completely stop, then completely come back to full by themselves. That's energy from outside the crystal cell, being brought in to power the circuit by the crystal cell. In other words, it's not being charged by us, and it's not what was stored originally in the crystal cell.

Another thought: You know on Star Trek, dilithium crystals? Did they know about this property of crystals? Has this knowledge been fairly common, just not explored much? I wouldn't bug John Bedini himself with a question like this one. Just whoever wants to chime in.

No I am not John Bedini, I am Fausto.

It is indeed amazing that the cells die first and resurrect later. I am working on exactly THIS BEHAVIOR on my cells now for a few months. It is the POINT in my opinion of those crystal cells.

Here is what I think why this happens: First the cell is totally galvanic because of the excess of water inside then the cell dries up and it dies, but it does not dries up totally and this is what permits the crystal to start growing and working.

If too much water, no crystal strong enough to grow and maintain its structure. Too little does not feed the cell.

The crystal is playing the role of bringing in the energy and we play the role of making the crystal grow. You see? The water is the crystal food, the plates and the "electrolyte" are the battery "food". The Crystal is the energy generator. We must find a way to keep the cell just wet enough to allow the crystal to grow enough and continue working while maintaining the "electrolyte" conductive enough for electricity to flow (internal resistance factor).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on June 12, 2014, 05:11:51 PM
@All,

I am getting closer to my product. Soon I will be selling on my site CRYSTALCELLLIGHT.COM.

The cell pictures is inside a clear liquid glass and even though does not look bright enough, it is indeed good for night table. You cannot sleep with one of those at you table-bed.

https://www.facebook.com/fausto.heikkinen/posts/1431612900434377 (https://www.facebook.com/fausto.heikkinen/posts/1431612900434377)

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on June 13, 2014, 02:35:18 AM
Very nice Fausto

How much are you selling for?

Thanks
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on June 13, 2014, 03:49:48 PM
@Allwest,


I am not selling yet, not ready, but this is the beginnings of my product. I am still making it smaller. When I got it to the size of a 2 aa battery, I will make it available in 4 different colors, detail: no turn on or off button.  ;D
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on June 13, 2014, 03:58:01 PM
What are you incasing them in? it looks like glass
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on June 13, 2014, 04:03:07 PM

It is liquid glass kind of resin.

What are you incasing them in? it looks like glass
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on June 13, 2014, 05:33:56 PM
@Allwest,

I am not selling yet, not ready, but this is the beginnings of my product. I am still making it smaller. When I got it to the size of a 2 aa battery, I will make it available in 4 different colors, detail: no turn on or off button.  ;D



Plengo,

Good going.  You selling these is just what the world needs...The public comprehension that we are in a new age.  Price them
so you can make a profit and then not look back.  I've always liked the concept of a locking start button but no off switch!
Best of luck.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: halfvulcan on June 13, 2014, 08:38:15 PM
Looks awesome, Plengo. I also attempted to visit your page at crystalcelllight.com. I got back a Godaddy generic page. I'm guessing that's maybe normal right now?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: lancaIV on June 14, 2014, 10:51:17 PM
                                                     Water  + ...... -Cells
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19830628&CC=US&NR=4390605A&KC=A
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Andy Shell on June 17, 2014, 06:02:41 PM

Great work plengo! Are you using a joule thief and does it need water added over time?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 22, 2014, 10:18:21 PM
Great work plengo! Are you using a joule thief and does it need water added over time?


No joule thief.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 23, 2014, 03:19:49 AM
                                                     Water  + ...... -Cells
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19830628&CC=US&NR=4390605A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19830628&CC=US&NR=4390605A&KC=A)


I looked at it but mine is very different in physical construction and chemical components. Does it say anywhere in the patent it will run indefinitely?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 23, 2014, 03:41:01 AM
Hi Plengo,

>Does it say anywhere in the patent it will run indefinitely?

Did he want to get the patent?  :o

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 23, 2014, 04:12:51 PM
Hi Plengo,

>Does it say anywhere in the patent it will run indefinitely?

Did he want to get the patent?  :o


I am not sure if I understand. Wasn't that a patent?


Guys I NEED to patent my work. I think I really do have a long, long, longgggg lasting cell, but I am afraid of selling to anyone my cells and someone else reverse engineer and patent and send me a "cease and desist" letter and then I will have to stop and loose it.


Any one knows how to patent this thing?


Only than I can open source ALL.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on August 23, 2014, 06:12:31 PM
Fausto, I have several patents pending on my Allwest Power cells

You can look here and go through the process
http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/patents.jsp
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 23, 2014, 06:22:50 PM
I think this web document is an abstract of a patent.

Since this followed from a U.S. patent, which was issued in 1983, (31 years ago BTW) If he made that claim of perpetual motion/energy,
I highly doubt that he would have gotten the patent!

---

You should first decide which country you want to get your patent in; Brazil, U.S., or International. It might be good to contact
a lawyer just to see what to do to protect you against the scenario you describe. I feel that if you try to protect rather then
sell your idea as a product you will get your wish and I and everyone else will never see it nor benefit from it. You should
trust that the majority of humans are going to be fair, they actually want to you to succeed because they want your product's
function and someone to take responsibility for its design! As they are going to want more of it in the future! Make sure there is a
balance between sales and protection. Plengo, be brave and give it shot. When you have something worth protecting take
out a "utility" patent. You have plenty of evidence here that you are responding to an perceived opportunity now and not
copying someone elses idea or product, and that you have developed this in your home laboratory and not skulldug it by
reverse engineering.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 25, 2014, 05:08:55 AM
Fausto, I have several patents pending on my Allwest Power cells

You can look here and go through the process
http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/patents.jsp (http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/patents.jsp)


Can we talk on the phone or skype? I would like to ask you questions about your patenting process.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 25, 2014, 05:11:27 AM
I think this web document is an abstract of a patent.

Since this followed from a U.S. patent, which was issued in 1983, (31 years ago BTW) If he made that claim of perpetual motion/energy,
I highly doubt that he would have gotten the patent!

---

You should first decide which country you want to get your patent in; Brazil, U.S., or International. It might be good to contact
a lawyer just to see what to do to protect you against the scenario you describe. I feel that if you try to protect rather then
sell your idea as a product you will get your wish and I and everyone else will never see it nor benefit from it. You should
trust that the majority of humans are going to be fair, they actually want to you to succeed because they want your product's
function and someone to take responsibility for its design! As they are going to want more of it in the future! Make sure there is a
balance between sales and protection. Plengo, be brave and give it shot. When you have something worth protecting take
out a "utility" patent. You have plenty of evidence here that you are responding to an perceived opportunity now and not
copying someone elses idea or product, and that you have developed this in your home laboratory and not skulldug it by
reverse engineering.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Thanks for the info. I am planning to protect the invention so that anyone can replicate at home but not really sell in large scale without paying royalties.


Once I have the protection that no one else would be able to patent it before me and force me (and us) to stop, I I can expose all in my videos in detail in how to make one yourself.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on August 25, 2014, 05:23:44 AM
Fausto,

You can PM me

The best cheapest way is to get yourself covered is submit a patent pending application, I think it is about a $100.00

They will help you at the help line, read up on other like patents so you can match similar language and format for your design

They will not accept pictures for explanations

This will cover you for a year and then you will need to apply for final patent and you will spend bigger $$$$

I hope that helps





 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 25, 2014, 08:31:11 PM
Yeah Fausto that patent pending sounds like the way to go. I think you should also think about the next generation device(s),
how to make them better, and how make them as part of a two step process. For example have an existing manufacturer or the Chinese
manufacturer do the "hard" part then have them sent to you for enablement. That way the light might not come on until later.  :)

But If you make e'm work, I'll surely be glad to buy e'm. 

---

You also will need to do a patent search to find who has existing claims to your exact technology, poor claims since we haven't seen
them reduced to practice yet. A patent has a "claims" section. That is where you set a "vector" as to what you are attempting to do with
the patent. For example is the patent about batteries, is this about leds, is this about jewelry, etc. A "utility" patent does not have many
claims but prevents someone from copying your exact construction sequence. Sort of a mechanical copyright. It doesn't have to claim
to do any particular thing. The patent office can't help it if your idea of ideal boat anchor happens to looks like a Meg circuit for example.
The normal patent is trying to patent a modification of existing idea space, hence you will need to help the patent office out by showing
how you patent idea fits in with pre-existing patents since those are considered legally valid. Many companies will just wait out your
patent until it expires. But that way you can still get credit in the history books. Of course anyone can sue anyone at any time
for anything, to let a court judge the process thus far was fair.

My idea for a legitimate use of a patent is to have one giant company slow another giant company down
so that company B can't use company A planning and company A's implementation to usurp company A
place in the market place. It in effect forces company B to really complete with company A. It assumes both companies
have intelligence collection, access to funds, access to engineering thought process. A lot of the rest of the ways
patents are used are probably bogus.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on August 25, 2014, 08:55:58 PM
I don't believe you need to patent anything unless you want in on the cash generated. Once you release to the public domain it becomes your idea in the public domain. There are a few things you need to do first. Make all video's embedded with date and time and release it all to various public sites like youtube and others. Post it everywhere and anywhere. This will establish that it was released to the public by you and no one can make claims to it. Open source is just that. OPEN. Everyone can make something from it and in the beginning, if it works well, everyone should be able to generate some income from labor.


 Getting a patent can also get you put into the National Security list and then you can't do or say anything about it. It can also get tanked very easily when they see your plans.


 Like I said once public domain is stated and released no one has rights to it, period. Trying to get it patented will only get you trouble in my opinion and hey I've seen more than one technology go down the drain rather quickly from trying to get it patented. You have plenty of evidence that lead up to your discovery. All of that work was done in the public domain, try to keep it that way.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 25, 2014, 11:59:45 PM
I don't believe you need to patent anything unless you want in on the cash generated. Once you release to the public domain it becomes your idea in the public domain. There are a few things you need to do first. Make all video's embedded with date and time and release it all to various public sites like youtube and others. Post it everywhere and anywhere. This will establish that it was released to the public by you and no one can make claims to it. Open source is just that. OPEN. Everyone can make something from it and in the beginning, if it works well, everyone should be able to generate some income from labor.


 Getting a patent can also get you put into the National Security list and then you can't do or say anything about it. It can also get tanked very easily when they see your plans.


 Like I said once public domain is stated and released no one has rights to it, period. Trying to get it patented will only get you trouble in my opinion and hey I've seen more than one technology go down the drain rather quickly from trying to get it patented. You have plenty of evidence that lead up to your discovery. All of that work was done in the public domain, try to keep it that way.


I do want it on the open domain. My issue is that someone else would patent after reverse engineering and we all will not be able to use as a commercial means.


I do want to make income from it too, after all it is about 5 years research. My idea is making money on PRODUCTS based on the cell not on the cell itself.


National security will be nothing since this is too small and I don't have to state "free energy"' or perpetual motion or "eternal durability".


I am not convinced that making videos and publishing would be all that is necessary for it not be patented anymore. Anyone here for sure? Lawyers?



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on August 26, 2014, 12:40:12 AM
I think that once you have a patent pending you can give permission for  people to try and make it for there personal use, that means that they can not make them for sale to someone else
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 26, 2014, 12:51:34 AM

That's why I think you need to treat it like a paper airplane, don't put too much money into
it but see if it can fly itself. The world is running out of water and inexpensive electricity
can not only solve this problem but will solve it. Let us practice implementing solutions for
this as individuals, if governments won't do it. The first uses for this technology will be for
increasing safety for everyone and the comfort for poor folks around the world, this is
2014 after all. Just like these QEG folks talk about, but with some knowlegable people
implementing. Let us nulify this latest great international investment opportunity.

Can a small canister full of rock crystals (guessing here) *possibly* fix the worlds problems
where 100's of weapon material reactors can't - is this the real world? We intelligent humans
just need to do right stuff.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Allwest on August 26, 2014, 12:52:19 AM
Not to be a downer for you, but keep in mind that anybody can change the formula slightly and they can receive there own patent

So long story short, the little guy trying to make money on there invention is pretty much screwed

You could try and sell your idea to a big company that could flood the market quickly with the product so it would not make any sense for anyone else to try and compete 

If you had a couple million dollars laying around I would say you could do it yourself

Good luck with this 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 26, 2014, 04:57:12 PM
Thank you all for your precious input.


I do have in mind a little product that I can make myself to sell. I guess you guys would be my first customers. :)


What about I create a new thread where WE TOGETHER can from beginning to end create one that I have, but I want more like WE ALL really experiment step by step with the minimum necessary equipment (which is not much) and in scientific manner study the process and make greater progress?


My research has been from total failures to total successes. Each step for me was a very important learning experience where I could take what was good and understand the next important step.


What I would like is the ALL to learn from grass roots just like it happened to me but as a collective process we will create a much better cell since many minds on the experiments (which we also would improve) will understand and find many new findings.


What you guys think?  I will NOT give the final formula TODAY since this does not help at all since what will happen is only a bunch of people creating a bunch of cells but not be able to progress further.


I think this way we together can patent this too so that big corporations can not sell and THEY make the profit.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 27, 2014, 02:39:27 AM
plengo,


There is co-citizen of Brazil that perhaps you should get in contact who was featured on peswiki.con
ie Stirling Allen's website. She is into inexpensive artistic lighting for cities. I've notice that some of the
pictures you have shown seem to have a high artistic component. For example the one with
piles of dark mineral cubes with small colored lights interspersed. She maybe would have contact
with people who would want to try artistic things. If the lighting is permanent then the technical component
seems would go away and lighting would become more existential. Sort of like an extended brush stroke.


Think of an artistic piece still shining 100's of years after it is created!


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: hartiberlin on August 27, 2014, 03:00:14 AM
Hi Fausto.
I think patenting is useless..
Just build 10 or 20 pieces first, sell it on Ebay with a profit, so you
can next make a batch of 50 and then always dounble the numbers in each production batch
and so on...

Surely some people will reverse engineer it, but who cares...
The market is huge and you can still sell it, if you don´t make it too
expensive and you can advertise it still as the original manufacturer and
being the inventor and not the copy cat will make people rather buy from you,
if you are not too expensive...

I guess it only counts to be first on the market and hold the bigger market share..

Then who will stil care about stupid patents... if your product is better than that
of the competition the people will still buy from you...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 27, 2014, 03:32:47 AM
Hi Fausto.
I think patenting is useless..
Just build 10 or 20 pieces first, sell it on Ebay with a profit, so you
can next make a batch of 50 and then always dounble the numbers in each production batch
and so on...

Surely some people will reverse engineer it, but who cares...
The market is huge and you can still sell it, if you don´t make it too
expensive and you can advertise it still as the original manufacturer and
being the inventor and not the copy cat will make people rather buy from you,
if you are not too expensive...

I guess it only counts to be first on the market and hold the bigger market share..

Then who will stil care about stupid patents... if your product is better than that
of the competition the people will still buy from you...

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan:

I agree 100%!  Patent cost a lot of money to do correctly and....if 1 company jumps your patent, you have to defend it or surrender it.  If 5 companies jump your patent, you have to defend against all 5 or surrender your patent.  10 years ago, the average patent defense against one infringement cost over 1 million dollars.  So, 5 defenses, 5 million dollars.  Don't have that kind of money?  Then your patent is gone.

An attorney once told me to be the originator and get to market fast.  And, as you said, when others jump in (and they will) keep telling them you are the originator and also, make improvements as time goes on so they are always one step behind you.  If someone else get a patent for the product, they can not stop you from making it as you are the inventor.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 27, 2014, 06:41:00 AM
Well if you guys are correct about not having a patent and not in danger of being obliged to stop selling my cells, I guess I will make a few products and sell it on ebay.


You guys will be my first clients and let me know if it indeed work as I think it does.


I am looking for ONE more metal supplier that can give me a .1 mm thickness sheet and I am good to manufacture some nice "flash lights" (although they don't flash, only keeps on).


The resin I used is the most expensive of all. I am paying now about $60 per gallon which is very expensive. It is called polydyne 5061. If anyone knows where to get this cheap, let me know. This resin is the same used by artists when embedding things inside a kind of liquid glass stuff.


Another question: I want to start a new thread for serious replicators and researches. Not just getting the cake and eating. I want at least 3 guys with a equipment and desire to test extensively into a progressive point where I am.


I want the documentation of each step so that ALL in a collective mind understand the process and also improve it.


I am not talking about just people reading, I need real doers, at least 3 presenting data. My goal is to start from ZERO, into each step I went and understand the data results and improve it with more chances of improving than just me. 3 guys means at least 10 different ways of testing at once, instead of me testing one formula every 3 months.


I indeed think I got it but I am not sure my monkey science will glue with experts here. It would be great if a chemist is involved.


The equipment is very cheap: old computer, radio shack meter with usb connection (it comes with the software), coffee grinder and simple things. The data collection is of extreme importance, specially the graphs of power output (volts x amps x resistance).




Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 27, 2014, 07:50:27 AM

The resin I used is the most expensive of all. I am paying now about $60 per gallon which is very expensive. It is called polydyne 5061. If anyone knows where to get this cheap, let me know. This resin is the same used by artists when embedding things inside a kind of liquid glass stuff.


Fausto.


When I google "polydyne 5061"   99% of the referenced websites have a .br country code


In the US the stuff is called castolite resin  castolite.com and creates a kind of lucite plastic that
is both very tough and clear.
What would now be called "maker industries" use this stuff extensively.
One way to reduce costs would be to use standard epoxy resin for most of the device then
use castolite plastic for just the
optical part. Prices for the equivalent stuff here look about the same though.


Products like these lights can be sold at "Maker Faires" that are held once a year in various cities,
again here.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 27, 2014, 05:20:24 PM

When I google "polydyne 5061"   99% of the referenced websites have a .br country code


In the US the stuff is called castolite resin  castolite.com and creates a kind of lucite plastic that
is both very tough and clear.
What would now be called "maker industries" use this stuff extensively.
One way to reduce costs would be to use standard epoxy resin for most of the device then
use castolite plastic for just the
optical part. Prices for the equivalent stuff here look about the same though.


Products like these lights can be sold at "Maker Faires" that are held once a year in various cities,
again here.


:S:MarkSCoffman


Thank  you very much. It is this kind of help that I desperately need. I am also looking for a kind of metal similar to beer caps can, that little think on the top of beer glass bottles (like this:  https://www.google.com/search?q=beer+tops&tbm=isch&imgil=zewyeZOXgIjtiM%253A%253B-1s71UvZX_XVoM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fthatcleverchick.com%25252Ftag%25252Fnecklace%25252F&source=iu&fir=zewyeZOXgIjtiM%253A%252C-1s71UvZX_XVoM%252C_&usg=__un60324BKTNDj31pXoIjqvCHPj0%3D&sa=X&ei=0_b9U4OECdK6ogT5pIHwAw&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAA&biw=1440&bih=795)


I need to find out what is that metal and where I can find it in bulks. If possible even in a to order manufacturing shapes and thickness.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 27, 2014, 05:46:20 PM
plengo,

Thanks.
If you can use the two step casting process, that supplier may be a repackager in a particular sale's territory. He probably has alternate
resins with altered optical properties for a lower cost. Check with them. Lucite plastic => Polycarbonate plastic like in clear BIC pen barrels.

I would try to go with an initial price of $30 -> $40 a device piece quantity one. This will let people who want one, to get one
but demand quantity production before getting quantity prices. Don't want to price too low initially. EBAY bidding-up is interesting but
you want a fixed price for non-bidding markets.

Please checkout etsy.com as a place to sell products too.

---

checking bottle caps.


:S:MarkSCofffman

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 27, 2014, 06:02:36 PM
plengo,

Thanks.
If you can use the two step casting process, that supplier may be a repackager in a particular sale's territory. He probably has alternate
resins with altered optical properties for a lower cost. Check with them. Lucite plastic => Polycarbonate plastic like in clear BIC pen barrels.

I would try to go with an initial price of $30 -> $40 a device piece quantity one. This will let people who want one, to get one
but demand quantity production before getting quantity prices. Don't want to price too low initially. EBAY bidding-up is interesting but
you want a fixed price for non-bidding markets.

Please checkout etsy.com as a place to sell products too.

---

checking bottle caps.


:S:MarkSCofffman


Thanks again. I don't know yet what price to charge. I was thinking something in the ball park of $20-$30, but to be fair,


WHAT WOULD PEOPLE HERE IN THE FORUM would be willing to pay for a small light of dimensions 3 1/2", 2", 2", rectangle shape with an LED of the possible colors: White, Blue, Orange, Green (the best) and blinking red/green/blue?


The light will be enough to really bother you when sleeping in the night besides your bed (my wife hates them because they are very bright).


Off course the income will be very appreciated for continuing my research.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 27, 2014, 06:34:18 PM
BTW,


as soon as I get some resin (which I ordered last week from ebay), I will make a nice cell and video recorded so that everyone will see what will be my first rude prototype for sell.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 27, 2014, 08:33:42 PM
You should study user lasersabers laserhacker.com experience with his tesla-torch on Ebay and with
his website teslamaker.com. I would go that route because it gets you a higher incentive to keep producing
these. Please keep applying profit to the next volume increment. Don't get "addicted" to ebay bidding though,
open these up to fixed pricing (high) after a given time period or volume.

I want one for ~$100 USD maybe two.

Hold on to your hat plengo -> This will be like the transistor-radio and Beatles rolled into one.

I'm still studying these bottle caps basically steel with a lot of unnecessary layers due to food
processing support. Tool and die stamping machine required, so size or shape alteration would
be expensive.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 28, 2014, 02:34:11 AM

Thanks again. I don't know yet what price to charge. I was thinking something in the ball park of $20-$30, but to be fair,


WHAT WOULD PEOPLE HERE IN THE FORUM would be willing to pay for a small light of dimensions 3 1/2", 2", 2", rectangle shape with an LED of the possible colors: White, Blue, Orange, Green (the best) and blinking red/green/blue?


The light will be enough to really bother you when sleeping in the night besides your bed (my wife hates them because they are very bright).


Off course the income will be very appreciated for continuing my research.


Fausto.

Fausto:

A good place to begin with pricing is 3 times your actual costs...and this means everything added into making a unit, including your time.  So, if you can make a single unit for $20 then sell it for $60.  You can even go a little higher as you can always lower the price, not so easy to raise it once it is out there.  Now, when you get to any kind of "production" even on a small scale, there will be savings...like buying materials in bulk, learning how to make a unit faster (and even better)  You can then lower your price accordingly and still have your margin.

Best of luck to you on this project.  Some folks think we should never make a profit...I say, that if we make some money, then we can afford to experiment more and offer even better products in the future.  Selling your units at a "break even" will not allow you to stay alive and pay your bills while working on the next great thing.

Bill

PS  I am working through all of this same stuff in an attempt to bring my magnetic battery connectors to the market.  I am doing everything myself and it takes a while.  Once I finalize packaging, I will introduce them to the market.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 28, 2014, 09:19:32 PM
@mscoffman and @Pirate88179

thank you for your GREAT insight and help.


I was wondering today, how much really believers are people in this (and other) forums about free energy? I have been asking for funds on my videos for years and ZERO (except one gentleman that gave me $5 bucks) funds given from anyone.


Now many wants this totally open source. Hmmmmmm.


I am kind of thinking that this is not fair really to me. Not even people willing to really test stuff and research with me seriously.


To those (specially you too Pirate88179 and mscoffman - because of your active participation with great insights) I will give you more than just 2 for the price you named. Some extras to your friends too.


I am planning in using all the income, for now, of the cells towards materials for this research. I got to an excellent place, but, there is much more to go.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on August 28, 2014, 11:12:31 PM
@mscoffman and @Pirate88179

thank you for your GREAT insight and help.


I was wondering today, how much really believers are people in this (and other) forums about free energy? I have been asking for funds on my videos for years and ZERO (except one gentleman that gave me $5 bucks) funds given from anyone.


Now many wants this totally open source. Hmmmmmm.


I am kind of thinking that this is not fair really to me. Not even people willing to really test stuff and research with me seriously.


To those (specially you too Pirate88179 and mscoffman - because of your active participation with great insights) I will give you more than just 2 for the price you named. Some extras to your friends too.


I am planning in using all the income, for now, of the cells towards materials for this research. I got to an excellent place, but, there is much more to go.


Fausto.


 I can understand your position but patenting this would be kinda useless and very very costly. Just release the stuff and mnake sure it is the best product you can make. Then sell it like was suggested on ebay. Once the word gets out you'll be golden. If you keep it in the public domain it will be assured continued work since not one person could be targeted and taken out by any means. Yes in the patent searches there is a procedure to search the web for prior art. That includes patents and research on a generic search of the internet. Any mention of your process will invalidate any patent attempt including your own forum posts and videos that were released into the public domain by you. The sad fact is the cat is out of the bag. Too much work has been done already and anyone could change it by 20% and get an improvement patent after your patent anyways.
 Stay in the open source and release all information and just know it was you that improved on a process already done by others. The whole concept was born in the open source community and thats where it should stay.


 You have every right to charge for parts and labor and release products based on that for a moderate sum. Remember to not price yourself out of the business. You want to be competitive with existing products in the same category and not shut the door before you even get through the door. Bedini did that with his version of the battery in an led light setup. Make it too costly and no one will buy it. Good luck my friend...


 jbgines5
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 28, 2014, 11:21:47 PM

 I can understand your position but patenting this would be kinda useless and very very costly. Just release the stuff and mnake sure it is the best product you can make. Then sell it like was suggested on ebay. Once the word gets out you'll be golden. If you keep it in the public domain it will be assured continued work since not one person could be targeted and taken out by any means. Yes in the patent searches there is a procedure to search the web for prior art. That includes patents and research on a generic search of the internet. Any mention of your process will invalidate any patent attempt including your own forum posts and videos that were released into the public domain by you. The sad fact is the cat is out of the bag. Too much work has been done already and anyone could change it by 20% and get an improvement patent after your patent anyways.
 Stay in the open source and release all information and just know it was you that improved on a process already done by others. The whole concept was born in the open source community and thats where it should stay.


 You have every right to charge for parts and labor and release products based on that for a moderate sum. Remember to not price yourself out of the business. You want to be competitive with existing products in the same category and not shut the door before you even get through the door. Bedini did that with his version of the battery in an led light setup. Make it too costly and no one will buy it. Good luck my friend...


 jbgines5


I agree by now with the patent usefulness or better uselessness.  I am working on the product as we speak. I really wished that the community would work more like a real community. No funds I was able to raise and I think it will never happen.




The cost of making the product is very high since I have to buy all the materials, build it myself and so on. 5 years research drained a lot of my savings already.


I am on my last breath with this tentative of selling this first product.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on August 28, 2014, 11:34:28 PM



 Hang in there Plengo. You have skills in video presentation and scientific study. Keep up the good work and like others who have said it before, you will make it slowly at first but then it will snowball out of control and you'll be rolling in the dough. I know how hard it is to get investment money but then the problems begin once you have to take an offer with questionable tradeoffs. Start slowly and make it right the first time. You have done the hard work and now it is time to get in there and build the first few and release this monster.
 I and others have been working on our own versions of the crystal cell and it is a step by step process in the beginning. Each successful cell built and sold will grow your pool of available cash on hand to procure and make more. All great businesses in these kind of fields started out of a garage and flowered into a full fledged BUSINESS. A bit of sacrifice in the beginning has always been the way these startups go. Once this is met the flow starts and never stops. Each success adds to your reputation and just from word of mouth you will get your fill. Don't advertise in the beginning. Just let it spread normally from the buyers and you will expand without getting too much bad attention.


 jbignes5

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on August 29, 2014, 12:31:49 AM


 Hang in there Plengo. You have skills in video presentation and scientific study. Keep up the good work and like others who have said it before, you will make it slowly at first but then it will snowball out of control and you'll be rolling in the dough. I know how hard it is to get investment money but then the problems begin once you have to take an offer with questionable tradeoffs. Start slowly and make it right the first time. You have done the hard work and now it is time to get in there and build the first few and release this monster.
 I and others have been working on our own versions of the crystal cell and it is a step by step process in the beginning. Each successful cell built and sold will grow your pool of available cash on hand to procure and make more. All great businesses in these kind of fields started out of a garage and flowered into a full fledged BUSINESS. A bit of sacrifice in the beginning has always been the way these startups go. Once this is met the flow starts and never stops. Each success adds to your reputation and just from word of mouth you will get your fill. Don't advertise in the beginning. Just let it spread normally from the buyers and you will expand without getting too much bad attention.


 jbignes5


I can't agree more with what jbignes5 said above.

Believe it or not Fausto, you can take some time off, in fact I'd encourage it, I'm sure your initial excitement will return. Anyone who says
this is not excruciating is not being reasonable, but in fact there are currently no drop-dead timeframes.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2014, 01:40:19 AM
Thanks guys. I agree with all so far. It is though but hey, nothing easy lasts.


I am making my first ones to test a few more months and release it obviously to you guys first which I kind of trust more to see if it is indeed what I am claiming.


I am looking for certain items still but I will get there. The funny thing is that to make one is not the costly at all but building is a pain by hand. I can imagine this in large scale with machines making it.


If this takes off and I sell it big time I will be billionaire.  ;D


I am already creating videos in detail how to make, step by step, but first I need to sell some and see it for sure then all will be available to all (just like Lasersaber).


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: gotoluc on August 29, 2014, 05:46:02 AM
Hi Fausto,

sounds like you have found something that can help bring change to those in need.

Wishing you success in sharing

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: hartiberlin on August 29, 2014, 06:54:03 AM
Hi Fausto,
look at Robert Murray-Smith on Youtube.
He had a successful Indigogo campaign and is now selling his
ink.
Well he delivered for 10 GBPounds some ink in his campaign.

Well people want something in return for their donations I guess
nowadays.

Maybe you can make it much cheaper by not putting it into this resin
and just sell these cells with a hardwired LED in a cheap case ?

Bedinis Alaun Battery LED thing was just too expensive at 200 US$,
okay, it was also a bit more complicated to make, but here
we just want a crystall cell that lasts...

A friend of mine, just did a combination of a selfmade copperoxid - magnesium solarcell
which can put out around 200 to 900 MilliVolts, depending on the
solar light, but works more like a light chargeable capacitor with a crystal battery effect
included, so producing also power in darkness....only the current still has to be raised,
cause it is still only in the mikroamps range...
so there is progress on all sides...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Doug1 on August 29, 2014, 01:39:38 PM
If your still looking for castolite Maybe you should talk to the people at Smoothon.com they have it under a different name "Crystal clear". They have a lot of stuff even a aluminum resin for making heat sinks.
  A trick I used to employ to cut down casting costs is to use fillers. Since I made my own molds using fillers became a big money saver in making the molds and product. Reducing the materials sometimes down 25 percent,I even recycled the waste as filler to avoid being hit with a local waste tax. It pissed off the county tax people which just made it all the more fun. Just follow the safety instructions of the products some repeated chemical exposures leave you hyper sensitive to exposures of other chemicals.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Doug1 on August 29, 2014, 02:15:04 PM
Nearly free bottle caps? Go to where the beer is consumed in large amounts, Colleges ,dorms ,bars, and make an offer or attach in some way to sponsor donations to a cause like the wounded worrier fund or to some illness for bottle caps donated buy the pound. You and your wife will be up to eyeballs in bottle caps. Make up some Jars and slot the lid big enough for bottle caps to fit in and find some stores to let you place them on the counter. Cancer is always a good cause. You might even get a company like coke or pepsi to help promote it or Sam Adams or who ever.
 Hay if people will dump ice water on themselves plus donate money I think you can pull off getting bottle caps for free.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on August 31, 2014, 04:19:05 AM
Hi Fausto,
look at Robert Murray-Smith on Youtube.
He had a successful Indigogo campaign and is now selling his
ink.
Well he delivered for 10 GBPounds some ink in his campaign.

Well people want something in return for their donations I guess
nowadays.

Maybe you can make it much cheaper by not putting it into this resin
and just sell these cells with a hardwired LED in a cheap case ?

Bedinis Alaun Battery LED thing was just too expensive at 200 US$,
okay, it was also a bit more complicated to make, but here
we just want a crystall cell that lasts...

A friend of mine, just did a combination of a selfmade copperoxid - magnesium solarcell
which can put out around 200 to 900 MilliVolts, depending on the
solar light, but works more like a light chargeable capacitor with a crystal battery effect
included, so producing also power in darkness....only the current still has to be raised,
cause it is still only in the mikroamps range...
so there is progress on all sides...

Regards, Stefan.


Hi Stefan,


I will again create a indigogo fund page but later when I have the product available so that people will have in what to believe in their hands.


Concerning a cheaper solution for the resin is that I NEED a total confinement of the cell without air or water entering the cell. THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.


So my solution was the resin that makes the cell super durable (almost indestructible which people loves) and allow it to run for a lonnnnnnnng time, besides, if the cell is open to the environment I will have to hear the naysayers that the cell is absorbing moist from the air and therefore the cell is galvanic. The cell is only galvanic on the first week of formation after that she is a beauty.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on August 31, 2014, 05:00:05 AM

Hi Stefan,


I will again create a indigogo fund page but later when I have the product available so that people will have in what to believe in their hands.


Concerning a cheaper solution for the resin is that I NEED a total confinement of the cell without air or water entering the cell. THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.


So my solution was the resin that makes the cell super durable (almost indestructible which people loves) and allow it to run for a lonnnnnnnng time, besides, if the cell is open to the environment I will have to hear the naysayers that the cell is absorbing moist from the air and therefore the cell is galvanic. The cell is only galvanic on the first week of formation after that she is a beauty.


Fausto.


 Yeah I found that after the growth time for the crystals that there was little galvanic action as well but my cell never went past the begining stages. I went to the oscillator to experiment with to run from the cell and never really picked it back up. My version used not so active materials like aluminum and graphite. Not in the right proportions either. You have to balance the masses in my version to retain the materials.


 The aluminum wire was heated and sprayed with borax, this formed a dry foam like coating. Then I baked it till it was golden brown. This creates a base crystal structure and when you put the aluminum wire into the crystal bath of alum borax and potassium it solidifies into a nice crystal structure that gets very clear and shinny on the aluminum. Once I let it set I start using the oscillator more and more to build a proper energy flow.


 One mistake I made was to make the gap between the center graphite and the aluminum wire coil was too big and alot of crystal had to be formed and took way over a month to solidify fully. Using a smaller gap would decrease the solidity phase and increase the capacitance. My version came out to a volt but seem to get stronger current wise as the crystal formed, not in voltage but current capability.


 The formula also included Epsom salts to give it pure water to form the other crystals with. No tap water was used on the recipe but I parboiled the glass jar I made the cell in and I assume the steam helped hydrate the mix a bit. I want to try the magnesium graphite or copper unit to see if it still works but magnesium is protected differently.


 One interesting thing I found out about using graphite is that the crystals started growing into the graphite and that increases the surface area of the graphite. This could be the reason for the growth but I'll have to look into that more when I get back to experimenting with the cells again.


 I hope everything goes well this time with the gogo plan Plengo. Having product to give out will only help the cause and might work really well to get the product out there and in the hands of the public. Word of mouth is the best seller of all.

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on August 31, 2014, 09:13:48 AM
Hi Plengo,

I'm doing crystal power cell research and haven't been able to keep the cells going without using soluble crystal materials which absorb moisture from the air.  Are you using soluble materials?  Are you sealing in moisture?

If you can't answer because it might reveal your secrets, that is okay.

Thanks,
4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 01, 2014, 01:14:19 AM
Hi Plengo,

I'm doing crystal power cell research and haven't been able to keep the cells going without using soluble crystal materials which absorb moisture from the air.  Are you using soluble materials?  Are you sealing in moisture?

If you can't answer because it might reveal your secrets, that is okay.

Thanks,
4Tesla


Solutions that absorb water is your best and worst enemy. The crystal structure NEEDS water to grow and I think the crystal is the generator of the energy with the plates only being a catalyst providing the voltage differential.


Now, if you lock the AIR OUT, you will be able to minimize corrosion extensively.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 01, 2014, 01:18:07 AM

 Yeah I found that after the growth time for the crystals that there was little galvanic action as well but my cell never went past the begining stages. I went to the oscillator to experiment with to run from the cell and never really picked it back up. My version used not so active materials like aluminum and graphite. Not in the right proportions either. You have to balance the masses in my version to retain the materials.


 The aluminum wire was heated and sprayed with borax, this formed a dry foam like coating. Then I baked it till it was golden brown. This creates a base crystal structure and when you put the aluminum wire into the crystal bath of alum borax and potassium it solidifies into a nice crystal structure that gets very clear and shinny on the aluminum. Once I let it set I start using the oscillator more and more to build a proper energy flow.


 One mistake I made was to make the gap between the center graphite and the aluminum wire coil was too big and alot of crystal had to be formed and took way over a month to solidify fully. Using a smaller gap would decrease the solidity phase and increase the capacitance. My version came out to a volt but seem to get stronger current wise as the crystal formed, not in voltage but current capability.


 The formula also included Epsom salts to give it pure water to form the other crystals with. No tap water was used on the recipe but I parboiled the glass jar I made the cell in and I assume the steam helped hydrate the mix a bit. I want to try the magnesium graphite or copper unit to see if it still works but magnesium is protected differently.


 One interesting thing I found out about using graphite is that the crystals started growing into the graphite and that increases the surface area of the graphite. This could be the reason for the growth but I'll have to look into that more when I get back to experimenting with the cells again.


 I hope everything goes well this time with the gogo plan Plengo. Having product to give out will only help the cause and might work really well to get the product out there and in the hands of the public. Word of mouth is the best seller of all.


Would be able to make a video of your cell? It seams very interesting your process.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 01, 2014, 02:57:43 AM

Solutions that absorb water is your best and worst enemy. The crystal structure NEEDS water to grow and I think the crystal is the generator of the energy with the plates only being a catalyst providing the voltage differential.


Now, if you lock the AIR OUT, you will be able to minimize corrosion extensively.


Fausto.

Thanks Fausto!

You have a working sealed crystal cell?  If so, that is very good news!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 01, 2014, 06:35:55 PM
Thanks Fausto!

You have a working sealed crystal cell?  If so, that is very good news!


YES, YES and YES. She is a beauty. Not strong but enough for in the night bother you.


It is VERY TRICKY to make the resin work correctly. I don't know why YET but I am testing how to get there correctly.


I will make a video soon showing this ONE cell working so well. I am actually a little uncomfortable to show her because it is not much light, but believe me, she is running very, very well.


Sometimes things happened by chance and I was lucky to get that one right at first because many tries are not working.


BUT I am learning something very important, it is necessary to let the cell's crystal structure to grow first, stop the initial corrosion and only then seal it.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 01, 2014, 09:29:10 PM

YES, YES and YES. She is a beauty. Not strong but enough for in the night bother you.


It is VERY TRICKY to make the resin work correctly. I don't know why YET but I am testing how to get there correctly.


I will make a video soon showing this ONE cell working so well. I am actually a little uncomfortable to show her because it is not much light, but believe me, she is running very, very well.


Sometimes things happened by chance and I was lucky to get that one right at first because many tries are not working.


BUT I am learning something very important, it is necessary to let the cell's crystal structure to grow first, stop the initial corrosion and only then seal it.


Fausto.

Fausto:

If it is not needed for your sealing material to be transparent, you can just use regular epoxy that would be a fraction of the cost.  Although, your final product may look better with the clear resin, but if it is just for sealing reasons, larger quantities of epoxy are available at a reasonable cost.  Folks that supply aircraft builders and surfboard makers are a good place to start.  Those folks use it by the gallon and even 5 gallon containers.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: jbignes5 on September 02, 2014, 06:27:20 PM

YES, YES and YES. She is a beauty. Not strong but enough for in the night bother you.


It is VERY TRICKY to make the resin work correctly. I don't know why YET but I am testing how to get there correctly.


I will make a video soon showing this ONE cell working so well. I am actually a little uncomfortable to show her because it is not much light, but believe me, she is running very, very well.


Sometimes things happened by chance and I was lucky to get that one right at first because many tries are not working.


BUT I am learning something very important, it is necessary to let the cell's crystal structure to grow first, stop the initial corrosion and only then seal it.


Fausto.


 Yes all of my work had a growth period once grown it has limits as well. Being sealed is something I did not work with although my crystal cells were open ended on one side (the glass jar). I tried it like that to prove to myself that in a dielectric it would work like normal and it does. In my opinion the crystal structure creates a barrier that is perfect for the metal being used. It grows along the natural in and outs of the metal object suspended in the fluid. We are merely drawing from the standing voltage of the metal object in relation to the other electrode. And losses in the fluid or crystals will hamper the output so using conductive crystals enhances the power output. Using this kind of batter is best with pulsing circuits with a duty cycle of 50% or less. This allows for the metal to rebalance to the standing voltage better and last much longer. Protecting that metal is of the utmost importance for lifespan and I think you did a bangup job of figuring out what protects very active magnesium. Aluminum seems to like borax as a protective coating as I have found out. Although my standing voltage was of a smaller span of about 1 volt. This would be a better cell because the current is lower and aluminum is cheaper and lighter then magnesium.


 I am not saying you cell isn't worth it but only saying it would be cheaper and way lighter. Also aluminum is sold in foils and that would be the best product to use in this process. Graphite can come on sheets that are sprayed and aligned by voltage stimulation while the paper or plastic is used as a base. I would recommend paper products like towels because they will allow fluid to pass in the formation or growth period. Using a light load like an oscillated led circuit is best because as the crystals are forming any irregularities are smoothed out by the agitation of the pulsed Draw from the aluminum or magnesium. You could also think of it like this. When they pour cement they agitate it by vibrators to expel water and get a tighter pack of the sand. This would be the same procedure but used for uniformity of the formed crystals protecting the metal electrode. To save space one could paint or airbrush both sides of the spacer dielectric used, porous or not. A dual layer electrode would be best because of the way the crystals grow from the metal electrode and sink into the graphite spacer dielectric. Graphite sheets are easy to find now as well and making them could be as easy as using a graphite ink in a printer. So cells would become dual cells with liquid only for that cell pair. Then you could parallel many pairs to increase the current capabilities.


 I do have to say if you beat the magnesium decay issue that is a major break to making cells last way longer with highly reactive metal like magnesium. I remember you showing the making of sealed units. If that is the same thing then Bravo to you! Share and lets start making this place a better world.


 Also you are very right in knowing when to halt the cells production of crystal structure. Too much and it breaks through the barrier that I described. To little and the metal looses integrity or decays. oxygen seems to be the culprit here and sealing the unit will make it better in the long run. The crystalline barrier I am talking about is an oxide of the metal which will eat a small portion to construct the barrier. Once it is formed the metal stays perfect. We need to manage the time spent on growing and conditioning the cells for better power production.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on September 02, 2014, 08:03:11 PM
Reference to NCP1400, NCP1402 voltage multiplier regulator;

http://www.overunity.com/6123/joule-thief/16600/#.VAYEpcW-2dk



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 03, 2014, 01:48:09 AM
Reference to NCP1400, NCP1402 voltage multiplier regulator;

http://www.overunity.com/6123/joule-thief/16600/#.VAYEpcW-2dk (http://www.overunity.com/6123/joule-thief/16600/#.VAYEpcW-2dk)

I am using the 1402 now and it is great!  This will output 3.3 volts and run a battery down to .3 volts.  The only catch is, it will not start below .8 volts but, if you leave it running it will stay on down to .3 volts.  I am using the assembled board available from sparkfun, that way I did not have to try to solder those very, very tiny chips.  I give this board a huge thumbs up.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 07, 2014, 08:41:47 PM
I am using the 1402 now and it is great!  This will output 3.3 volts and run a battery down to .3 volts.  The only catch is, it will not start below .8 volts but, if you leave it running it will stay on down to .3 volts.  I am using the assembled board available from sparkfun, that way I did not have to try to solder those very, very tiny chips.  I give this board a huge thumbs up.

Bill


Would you be willing to build me a few and sell me? I would like to test them in my cells.


And why Pirate88179?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 07, 2014, 11:09:57 PM
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967 (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10967)

Fausto:

Above is the link where you can purchase this 1402 break out board for under $6 US.  It contains all of the components required along with the 1402 chip AND, you do not have to try to solder that damn small, tiny chip!  This one takes 1.5 volts input and outputs 3.3 volts and will handle 200 mA's.  So, it is already built and made cheaper than you or I could make one after buying the components.

Why Pirate88179?

A long, long time ago, back when all we had were bulllitin boards (pre-internet) I was known around as Pirate.  Well, after a while other folks began using this and once, when I was trying to sign up to a new board, it told me that name was taken but suggested Pirate88179.  I tried other variations of the name Pirate but it still only kept giving me the choice of pirate88179 so I finally hit "OK" and have been using that ever since.  We are talking late 80's here.  So, as I was well known on that board, I used it for every other board I logged into.  The rest is history...ha ha.

Bill

PS  If you get some of these boards and have any problems wiring them up, let me know and I will gladly help.  (They are not intuitive)
Farmhand (here on O.U.com) helped me so I will be happy to pass it on.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 08, 2014, 01:59:08 AM
I am happy to introduce my first real beginnings.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hGvb-8ud8




Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 08, 2014, 02:31:20 AM
I am happy to introduce my first real beginnings.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hGvb-8ud8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hGvb-8ud8)




Fausto.

Very nice work.  Good video.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 09, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
Nice work!  Keep up the great research!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on September 10, 2014, 12:43:46 PM

I agree by now with the patent usefulness or better uselessness.  I am working on the product as we speak. I really wished that the community would work more like a real community. No funds I was able to raise and I think it will never happen.




The cost of making the product is very high since I have to buy all the materials, build it myself and so on. 5 years research drained a lot of my savings already.


I am on my last breath with this tentative of selling this first product.


Fausto.

Hi, just passing by: Have you tried to raise  funds with a kickstarter campagn ?
Even the non credible QEG was able to raise funds...
So if you have a working valuable product you should do it fine.
Cordially.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 12, 2014, 08:34:10 PM
Great news today: I replicated my successful cell today. It is not much light BUT it is working as the first one, in other words, it is running perpetually, dry, no water, no air, no nothing, just light out.   ;D


I can tell you, casting with resin and getting the cell to run is VERY DIFFICULT, it will not be easy for others to replicate.


Concerning questions, I am using indigogo (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/crystal-cell-battery-with-10-years-life/x/1876060).


And guys, thank you very much for the support and help. I am still looking, with the help of MarkSCoffman, for a cheaper metal that I need.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 13, 2014, 09:10:08 PM
I received some questions about "Where are the crystals?" (after seeing my last video). Well, I did not show the crystals on the metal plates on the video YET. I only showed the plates but not the plates WITH the crystal electrolyte.


So, don't get confused, THIS IS A CRYSTAL CELL.


Attached is close-up of the crystal growing inside a single cell. The Copper metal is .5 millimeters thick and the "other metal" is 2 millimeters thick. I would love to find those TWO METALS no thicker than .1 mm. Anyone?


The interior of the cell where the crystal is is only 1mm thick. It may look bigger now because the crystal expands the structure as it grows. Another thing I will have to fix (reduce that growth) in the future once I have more funds.

Another detail in this picture is that this close-up is from a sealed cell that I had to open (to examine the plates) using a very crude band saw with a blade to cut hard metals. So the whole structure gets really bent, distorted and sometimes broken and also destroys the cell.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 13, 2014, 09:52:31 PM
This is a private video for this forum viewers (I ask not to publish on the net) where I show my first successful cell that is sealed with a resin, with no external water or air or ANYTHING. She is running since Jun-10-2014 very well. (Video: http://youtu.be/bvka0OkjGIw (http://youtu.be/bvka0OkjGIw))


With time she is getting stronger. No signs of deterioration neither expansion of the container.


This IS A CRYSTAL CELL.


The first picture is based on my formula 186-7 from last year where I was able to create a crystal electrolyte that seals the cell completely and protects the metal. In this picture the metal is Magnesium. To my surprise this metal IS NOT GOOD for this kind of cell although Magnesium is great for more output power. The crystal electrolyte does not work on galvanic process therefore where you would expect greater power output such as the case with Copper/Magnesium cells.


The crystal latter and the water retained are crucial for the functioning of the cell. Another factor is off course internal resistance (which I am currently working on solving and the resin casting). The next SUPER IMPORTANTE factor is the electrostatic properties of water and its electrical/magnetic properties. Water likes "voltage" around it.


Second picture is ONE CELL metal plates (two metals) with its separator where it holds the electrolyte and also separates one CELL from the next stacked CELL.


Third picture is my electrolyte dust inside the cup where I apply to the cells. It is super dry.


Fourth picture is the graph of a cell using "coca-cola" can metal. One CELL only. It is inside the resin and it is only showing 5 mili-volts under a 100 ohm resistor. Yes, Yes, I know, only 5 mili-volts Fausto? ??? Yes, but consider that the WHOLE ONE CELL is only .2 millimeters thick. Imagine 100 of those together?


Observe also what is really important. Do you see the erratic voltage (and current because of the 100 ohm resistor) fluctuation? It goes up and down, steady and erratic. This cell is running for more than a week with this constant behavior and always around 5 mili-volts, sometimes goes to 1 and other times to 12 but always around 5 mili-volts. It is very sensitive to day and night. Not sensitive to vibration or temperature changes of the environment.


I claim that this one cell WILL NEVER DIE. How I know that? simply because there is no water or corrosion inside it. It is purely on the crystal power. Btw, coca-cola can metal is not very good for this kind of cell (may be in the future) but it is dirty cheap to get.






Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 14, 2014, 10:58:46 PM
Fausto:

Excellent work there and I wish you the best.  I agree with you that this could really be a great step forward.  I hope you can raise the funds needed to complete your research.

Best of luck to you.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 16, 2014, 09:58:47 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, although it should be observable, is that the picture of my last post of the crystal growing INSIDE the cell shows NO CORROSION.


Observe carefully the white crystal GLUED to the top plate (shinnying silver) where the crystal "merges" inside the metal. Pay close attention.


This is of fundamental importance in explaining the NO CORROSION process. The crystal is integrating with the metal at a very minute detail level where its function integrates well with the metal.


The metalS are the voltage source and the water is the current source.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 25, 2014, 03:35:24 AM
Hi Fausto,

I've been doing research and I found these waterproof enclosures.. they might make things easier for you than cutting the resin to examine the cells.

Search "clear project box" on ebay.. here is one I might use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d)

Keep up your great work.. I just finished watching your latest youtube video.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 25, 2014, 05:32:28 AM
Hi Fausto,

I've been doing research and I found these waterproof enclosures.. they might make things easier for you than cutting the resin to examine the cells.

Search "clear project box" on ebay.. here is one I might use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d)

Keep up your great work.. I just finished watching your latest youtube video.

Thanks for the link.  I think I might be able to use these on my latest project.

Bill
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 25, 2014, 04:56:56 PM
Hi Fausto,

I've been doing research and I found these waterproof enclosures.. they might make things easier for you than cutting the resin to examine the cells.

Search "clear project box" on ebay.. here is one I might use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/85x58x33mm-Waterproof-Cover-Clear-Plastic-Electronic-Project-Box-Enclosure-CASE-/281390875149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418434020d)

Keep up your great work.. I just finished watching your latest youtube video.


Great. Thank you. I will give it a try. Great find.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 26, 2014, 11:27:53 PM
Hi every one: I am new to posting but not new to the field.  I have been working on my own crystal cells for more than 4 years and a year ago I dropped the research because of the same results as others,  short life span. The corrosion problem with the plates.  About 3 or 4 months ago I decided to do some more research and I have had great results with the cell plates not corroding as before and I have achieved over 1.2 volts out of using aluminum and copper.  Which I never had much success over .6 volts if I was lucky and only lasted a short time before dieing as others have experienced.  My latest cell I just completed today is running a modified joule thief at 1.169 volts and it will produce .5 amps shorted.  I have had other cells working for about a month now with out showing any signs of corrosion or dieing. They have gotten better as time goes on.  I have shared this info with one other member on a personal basis so he could try this out for him self.  I have since decided to share my information with the group so you can try this out if you want.  I know from experience that time is the real teller of the true story but I am impressed that with the compound I am using I have noticed the great increase in voltage.  I also used the same compound in the lead acid conversion instead of using the alum and I am getting 12.5 volts at over 10 amps.  I also had an old 1.2 volt commercial Nickle cadmium battery used in cell phone towers.  I removed the plates and cleaned out and added this compound and I am getting 1.4 volts at around 5 amps.  Well so much for the talk.

I am using a compound sodium meta silicate.  You can get it locally at the ace hardware store under the name of tsp/90.  It is around 4.00 a pound but if you order the 4 lb bag it is only 10.00.  The stuff sets up like concrete with just distilled water.  No heating.  All you get with heating is foam and it won't set. 

I first just used the aluminum untreated as I call it.  and I did heat the copper to get the copper oxide coating.  I got great success with just this first try.  I was getting around 1.9 volts out but low current and I had the corrosion problem with the aluminum..  I was on youtube and ran across a video from a german fellow that was trying to set up a company and sell his crystal cells.  He was using aluminum and copper as well.  He would not disclose the chemical but he did show a detailed diagram of the inside of the cell.  I noticed he was showing a barrier between the aluminum and the compound.  With further research I found that it was aluminum oxide. 

So I put the aluminum plate in a solution of borax and distilled water and made the aluminum plate positive and used a carbon rod for the negative.  I used a 12 volt battery and left it work for 1/2 hour.  I now had a thick coating of aluminum oxide on the plate.  I let it dry for a while and built a new cell.  I got around 1.75 volts at about 25 ma.  with out the corrosion problem.  The cell just got better as time went on.  It starts working great after about 24 hours.  The next thing I did was to get the current up was I added a weak solution of sodium hydroxide when I made the cell instead of the plain water.  My current went up to around 125 to 150 ma.  I also apply a voltage twice the cell voltage while the mixture is setting up.  When the fizzing stops about after 2 hours and the cell is set I remove the voltage and let the cell settle to its working voltage.  I will be a little lower at first then in the morning it is up to its resting voltage.  I use 1/2 tsp of sodium hydroxide to 4oz water.  Any more you will have a fizzing mess and it won't set up.  I have since added portland cement to the mix half and half and after set I seal it with wax.  The cement doesn't affect the cells response but it does set up harder and is more durable. 

The circuit I included is the modified joule thief I designed using the capret and It will run the led and charge the crystal cell at the same time.  I am looking at one now on my bench and has been running all day at 1.169 volts.  Well that is all I have at the moment.  Just wanted to share.  I know that time will tell but I am real happy with what I have witnessed at this moment.  I will be glad to answer questions.   Thanks.  If this has already been tried I am sorry for wasting your time.     
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 12:22:35 AM
Hi again.  Just noticed that I didn't label the capret.  It is a 470 uf capacitor at 35 volts.  I have been using these to run an Led on rechargeable battery and it keeps them charged.  Have been using them on about 6 different battery from small nicads to larger lead acid cells and they have been running for over a month and the battery voltage has not dropped.  So I decided to try it in a joule thief.  Between the capret and the additional joule thief coil between the supply and the joule thief osc it is keeping the cells up and running the LED.

Also I wanted to take this time to commend Plengo for all his great work!!!!!  I have all your videos in my archive and you have saved me a lot of wasted time.  They are one of my great treasures in crystal research!!!..  Again thanks for all your great effort and work!!!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Kator01 on September 27, 2014, 01:46:10 AM
Hello Dave,

is this the product Natriummetasilikate you used ?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Red-Devil-TSP-90-Heavy-Duty-Cleaner-1-lb-Cleans-Floors-Walls-Woodwork-/321471781360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad93619f0 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Red-Devil-TSP-90-Heavy-Duty-Cleaner-1-lb-Cleans-Floors-Walls-Woodwork-/321471781360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad93619f0)

If so we will have to find similar product in germany as Amazone listed it here as not available at the present time

Thanks

Kator01
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 04:26:13 AM
Hi Kator01:

Look on ebay under sodium metasilicate.  The very first listing shows a 1 lb bag for 14.00.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 04:45:14 AM
Kator01

 I forgot to answer your question.  Yes the product is a cleaner found in the paint section of ace hardware under the name TSP-90.  I am going to buy off of ebay after my current supply runs out.  I think I can get a better price in bulk.  Goes fast.  Used almost 6 lbs.  Using the portland cement helps to stretch out the supply and it also helps to harden the cell a lot faster.  2 hours as apposed to a couple of days.  Using the cement you can seal off the cell with wax or epoxy and keep a little moisture in the cell to get the current.   Good luck!  Hope you liked the circuit.  I am now looking at 1.172 volts and it is still climbing.  I am also charging of sorts three other crystal cells and they are reading 3.609 and they are still climbing.  I am using two radio shack data logging meters to Graph the results.  That way I can do other things and watch which way the voltage is going.  Well the charge batteries just went to 3.610 volts.  I let it run all night. been running for week.  Noticed that the voltage falls a couple thousands of a volt at night then when morning comes the voltage goes back up.  One last thing.  If you are careful in measuring the sodium hydroxide solution as I have stated and make enough to do all your cells if you are making more than one,  you will have great consistency between the cell voltages with that batch.  I did 10 cells to make a 12 volt battery and I got around 1.220 to 1.268 on all the cells.  Other wise the voltage might be all over the place.  At least this is what I found out. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 08:12:56 AM
Hi David,

Thank you for sharing your research!  A lot of new stuff to try!  I've been also doing research in this area.  I have an idea of coating the electrodes with a conductive coating.. there are electrically conductive adhesives, but costs lots.. going to try to make my own.

http://www.atomadhesives.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_94 (http://www.atomadhesives.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_94)
(the prices look low.. but they are for a very small amount)

4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Kator01 on September 27, 2014, 01:49:05 PM
Hi David,

do you have information about the volumetric or weight percentage of the material-mix including the amount of water you used ?

This would be of great help.

This swiss flyer gives information about a new trend in laundry detergent production indicating that there are different particle sizes available for different purposes. See here

http://www.impag.ch/fileadmin/resources/files/ch/Chemie/Flyer_Natriummetasilikate_2011-02-01_final.pdf (http://www.impag.ch/fileadmin/resources/files/ch/Chemie/Flyer_Natriummetasilikate_2011-02-01_final.pdf)

so it would be a good idea to find out the particle size of the Sodium-Metasilikate you bought

Shipping-cost are too high to buy this in USA, have to find it here in germany.

Thanks for sharing

Kator01





Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 06:09:21 PM
Hi David,

do you have information about the volumetric or weight percentage of the material-mix including the amount of water you used ?

This would be of great help.

This swiss flyer gives information about a new trend in laundry detergent production indicating that there are different particle sizes available for different purposes. See here

http://www.impag.ch/fileadmin/resources/files/ch/Chemie/Flyer_Natriummetasilikate_2011-02-01_final.pdf (http://www.impag.ch/fileadmin/resources/files/ch/Chemie/Flyer_Natriummetasilikate_2011-02-01_final.pdf)

so it would be a good idea to find out the particle size of the Sodium-Metasilikate you bought

Shipping-cost are too high to buy this in USA, have to find it here in germany.

Thanks for sharing

Kator01

Edit:  NM.. not the same.. disregard

I've used Sodium Silicate (aka liquid glass), which is the same thing, but in liquid form.. basically they add the water for you.  Maybe you can find that in Germany.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 07:26:50 PM
@drodenbe[/size]

[/size]
excellent work. I will also try the joule thief mod of yours. Now to the work.[/size]

[/size]
I am happy you are using the graph, extremely important. Please share pictures of the graph zoomed and the whole graph so far. I want to see the curves and the spikes.[/size]

[/size]
The metasilica works well but will create sodium oxides that will smell like ammonia which will kill the cell with time because of its resitive properties, in other words, it will kill the cell by creating an isolation layer.


In one of my videos I show a big cell running a 25 watts  light. That cell I use something similar to what you are doing, charging the cell with a power supply. This creates a thin layer over the other metal (not copper) that will work like a super capacitor (another huge line of research to pursue) BUT it will also create an isolation layer with time. That one problem is VERY WORTHY to research and try to eliminate and then one can contain the humidity inside the cell and sealed, like you are doing.


Concrete will absorb the water and kind of work this is WHY: the water MUST flow back and forth inside the cell so the concrete will absorb and release that water as the cell needs. In your case the meta-silica (liquid glass) will with time soak the cell and cause the ammonia problem and cause the cell to inflate and crack open. You will see it. Amazing pressure it will create, another great line of research to solve.


Someone mention the conductive grease, that works BUT it will eventually open a hole and allow water to contaminate the metals.


The graph you are using IS CRUCIAL to understand what the cell is doing inside and tell you if she will survive for a long time before that time comes. Please share that.


I am using the following elements:
- Alum
- Epson salts
- Rochelle salts (3 different crystal for 3 different growth rates and "conflicting" starvation)
- Activate carbon to reduce internal resistance of the cell and compound "unification" (one could try different inert options)
- try using (depending of the formulas you are using) a teta or even higher hydrates. They are the "dirt" where the crystal grows but avoid nitrogen based, they will crack the cells open with time and corrode copper like butter.
- Quartz crystals already grown to help in the piezo effect. You can try different compounds of inert quartz crystals. River sands?!




Well, now, the cell DOES fluctuate during the day and night in a very specific pattern. That is ALSO CRUCIAL. We need to see that. The cells is very sensitive to the moon (I know it sounds crazy but its all based on the empirical data) and the solar intensity, also of your presence.


With your cell try not YET to seal it and run the graphs and share it too. I would like to see the "evaporation" level of the water - based on the curve of the graph. This will show the level of crystal growth based on the amount of water it will retain and the piezo effect inside the cell, besides off course, of the power over time.


Also use a 100 ohms resistor as a load to became close to real application devices and have a more repetitive and empirical data to measure (base line). With this technique you will be able to use your meter to graph not only the voltage but current and "internal resistance" of the cell all at one shot.  ;D


Those are a few questions and tips I have to observe your testing and one can branch from your work and share results.


Keep up your great work, man and THANK YOU for actively now participating in this forum.


I have been waiting for people DOING THE WORK to participate so that I CAN SHARE. I don't want to share with "chair sitters".


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 08:30:49 PM
Hi again:  Kator01

I am measuring by volume.   4oz ( Dixie cup) with 4oz cement (Dixie cup).  I looked up the msds sheet for the tsp-90 and is lists the ingredients as sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide.  But the label on the bag just lists sodium meta silicate.  Not sure what the difference is.  I am not a chemist.  I found the product on ebay I don't know if that is a problem with where you are or not.  If it is not ace hardware usa or Ebay, I am not sure where you can get it! 

Fausto:  Thanks for all your input and comments.  I have all your videos and as I have said before, you have saved us all a lot of work and money.  Money short supply! Retired!  I will try to get you the shots in a while.  Recently went through a divorce.  Lost all my stuff and information...  No camera no equipment.  Trying to replace slowly.  Did spring for scope and two logging meters.  Not sure if I can save a pict file from logging program or not.  Will look into.  Will need to get a camera soon. 

I will try to supply you with some data as you requested.  I don't have the experience with the cells as you do and I don't even want to try to match wits with you because I would loose.  You have done extensive research into this subject and your videos prove that!  I know very well about the possible outcome of the cells after time.  Been there and one of the reasons I quit for a while. Had renewed interest with the increase voltage output of this compound.  So as you know so well.  Time will tell!  I just looked and my joule thief is running the Led at high brightness and the cell is at 1.180 volts and rising was 1.172 last night at midnight.   Charge cells at 3.601 was 3.591 last night as well.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 08:51:37 PM
Hi again:  Kator01

I am measuring by volume.   4oz ( Dixie cup) with 4oz cement (Dixie cup).  I looked up the msds sheet for the tsp-90 and is lists the ingredients as sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide.  But the label on the bag just lists sodium meta silicate.  Not sure what the difference is.  I am not a chemist.  I found the product on ebay I don't know if that is a problem with where you are or not.  If it is not ace hardware usa or Ebay, I am not sure where you can get it! 

Fausto:  Thanks for all your input and comments.  I have all your videos and as I have said before, you have saved us all a lot of work and money.  Money short supply! Retired!  I will try to get you the shots in a while.  Recently went through a divorce.  Lost all my stuff and information...  No camera no equipment.  Trying to replace slowly.  Did spring for scope and two logging meters.  Not sure if I can save a pict file from logging program or not.  Will look into.  Will need to get a camera soon. 

I will try to supply you with some data as you requested.  I don't have the experience with the cells as you do and I don't even want to try to match wits with you because I would loose.  You have done extensive research into this subject and your videos prove that!  I know very well about the possible outcome of the cells after time.  Been there and one of the reasons I quit for a while. Had renewed interest with the increase voltage output of this compound.  So as you know so well.  Time will tell!  I just looked and my joule thief is running the Led at high brightness and the cell is at 1.180 volts and rising was 1.172 last night at midnight.   Charge cells at 3.601 was 3.591 last night as well.

David


I know the problem of lack of money very well.  :D


Do not worry about comparing with me. I am like a say a "monkey scientist", only that and I have love for this research.




I don't need a picture than, just draw in a piece of paper as close as possible to what you see in the graph, like I show on my videos too. I am interested in the Ups and Downs by time/sample and the "spikes", how tall are they compared to the whole "long wave" curve.


Voltage rising now will not mean much (after hundreds of tests I kind figure that) BUT they tell me how the cell is "running inside".


The whole thing is based on the water "execution" inside the cell and the curves tells part of this story.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 08:57:06 PM
Hi Fausto,

Thanks for sharing your electrolyte materials.

Yep, I haven't had much luck with Sodium Silicate either.

I'm going to try electrically conductive adhesive for coating the electrodes.

Have you tried graphite powder (also carbon based) to reduce internal resistance?  I'm also looking at aluminum powder.

http://www.amazon.com/West-System-Graphite-Powder-423/dp/B002MYWI8Y/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1411687597&sr=8-8&keywords=GRAPHITE+POWDER

Also I'm looking into using Barium Titanate powder.  It is piezoelectric and non-soluble.

I do believe that polarizing does help, but I don't use a power supply.. I just put the cell under load while the crystals form.

Since everyone is sharing, here is a list of materials I've been researching..

Soluble Crystal Materials:
Sodium Borate (Borax) - Na2B4O7•10H2O
Magnesium Sulfate (Epson Salt) - MgSO4•7H2O
Potassium Aluminum Sulfate (Alum) - KAl(SO4)2•12H2O
Potassium Chloride (Ingredient in Salt Substitute) - KCl
Potassium Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) - KNaC4H4O6•4H2O
Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) - CaSO4•2H2O
Calcium Carbonate (Calcite) - CaCO3
Sodium Hydroxide (Lye, Caustic Soda) - NaOH   -- just added to list  8)

I'm happy to see continued research in this area!

4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 09:08:50 PM

Sodium Borate (Borax) - Na2B4O7•10H2O                                    -> will clean the surface of the metal (no need - in my humble opinion)
Magnesium Sulfate (Epson Salt) - MgSO4•7H2O                            -> will give you the first week of power. It will become grayish in color and will become an isolation layer.
Potassium Aluminum Sulfate (Alum) - KAl(SO4)2•12H2O                -> Alum, good
Potassium Chloride (Ingredient in Salt Substitute) - KCl                  -> This is the piezo BUT will with nitrogen form a corrosive element.
Potassium Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) - KNaC4H4O6•4H2O      -> good.
Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) - CaSO4•2H2O                                     -> good to hold water and unify the compound. Will also become very hard with time.
Calcium Carbonate (Calcite) - CaCO3                                            -> more of the calcium above. No need.
Sodium Hydroxide (Lye, Caustic Soda) - NaOH                              -> with time will become ammonia and "inflate" the cell to rupture level. It is only good in the beginning to "suck" the salts and eliminate their reactive properties BUT again, will kill the cell, specially if water is still present.




Off course my input is only a humble opinion of mine and in no way diminish your work.


Keep up.


Fausto.   

I'm happy to see continued research in this area!

4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 09:20:27 PM
Hi Fausto,

Thanks for adding your input on the materials.. that will help!

4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 09:23:57 PM
Fausto:
 
Just figured out how to get you the information.  I just do a printscrn and save it to the paint program and save it as a jpg.  Works great!  Will be a while before camera and Hollywood productions.  I need to know how you want the experiment set up.  I just put a 100 ohm resistor across the cell and all I get is so far a downward discharge curve has not leveled out yet.  My not may just head right into the gorund!  So to speak!  it seams to be slowing down at 1.060 volts don't have the spikes you are talking about.  Need to explain how you want to set this up. 

Also :  The sodium meta silicate is not like the sodium silicate.  It is not the same and doesn't react the same!!!!  I have use the sodium silicate and have had similar results with the cells as every one else.  I never saw the improvement until the sodium meta silicate.  You don't need to use the magnesium to get over one volt.  I just use the aluminum with a thick coating of aluminum oxide on plate.  This protects from corrosion.  Have had 10 cells running for over a month without any signs of corrosion.  The cells were at 1.25 volts when made and they are still at the same or a little higher or lower by about a couple thousands of a volt.  I also heat treat the copper to red hot then let cool. I don't remove the black coating.  I leave it there. But as we all know so well time will be the real test!!!

here is a video where I got the idea of the oxide coating on the aluminum.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7y8ek9aASQ

Marus Reid Crystal Cell Technology.  Look at all his videos but this one shows the diagram of the inside.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 09:25:42 PM
If you have a slow galvanic corrosion process going in any totaly sealed container one of two things will happen: either hydrogen gas will be slowly released and puncture the container,or oxygen gas will be consumed inside the container and puncture it.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 09:32:46 PM
If you have a slow galvanic corrosion process going in any totaly sealed container one of two things will happen: either hydrogen gas will be slowly released and puncture the container,or oxygen gas will be consumed inside the container and puncture it.
Absolutely CORRECT. This is ONE of the signs I know corrosion of out of the question.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 09:41:37 PM
The sodium meta silicate is not like the sodium silicate.  It is not the same and doesn't react the same!!!!  I have use the sodium silicate and have had similar results with the cells as every one else.  I never saw the improvement until the sodium meta silicate.

That is very interesting.. I'll have to give it a try.  I have checked and they do have a slightly different molecular formula.  8)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 09:42:33 PM
The sodium meta silicate is not like the sodium silicate.  It is not the same and doesn't react the same!!!! 


Yes, that is correct. I was saying glass water for those that are using it. This element will hold some of the water in its molecular level and it is very good at that. Very important, BUT it cannot release it via other chemical reactions.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 09:50:56 PM
This is what I mean by curves and spikes. First picture shows the flow of the cell constantly (after days and days and days....) going up and down. No corrosion at all. The long waves (notice the bottom of the graph showing samples - each is a second, so 20000 is 20 thousand seconds). Those waves are days and nights oriented. Very cool.


The second graph is a part of the first picture zoomed in. Notice the green spikes on top of the blue??? Some of my graphs those spikes are substantial, others are not there, this one is ok in size BUT this means that the cell's vibration and water release and retention is small, meaning very little to no gas release.


Large amounts of gas release will show high and aggressive spikes. Most of my cells have that on the first weeks then they cool off until a point like this graph. This shows me the maturity of the cell growth and its possible potential. Also tells me about is FUTURE internal resistance.


This cell , just based on that graph, shows me that she will run for a long, long, long, but longggggggg time.

Third picture is how to setup the measuring process of the cell. Very simple. One 100 ohm resistor and the meter. Simple.



Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 09:51:16 PM
Semi-correct plengo.the only way to know is to the chemistry of the cell, thoroughly.most of the time you won't even see the puncture,It'l crack at the tiniest weakspot and it can take months to do this.pomodoro(in one of his more positive moods)did show in the beginning of experimentation on the karpen thread what happens between 2 inert electrodes under nitrogen..you get a current..a small one..due to electrolysis.. This can happen in a crystal cell that has totaly,and I mean totaly passivated electrode surfaces,and which has consumed all remaining o2 gas that was trapped inside prior to passivation.it is theoreticaly possible to get a cyclic electrolysis-recombination cycle going under right circumstances.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 09:58:08 PM
cyclic electrolysis-recombination cycle going under right circumstances.[/size]


Yes baby, yes. That is the secret.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 10:01:21 PM
Can one explain the difference between oxide and corrosion?  I thought they were the same.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 10:07:43 PM
Can one explain the difference between oxide and corrosion?  I thought they were the same.


Sure, they are the same BUT in the context of the cell, that redox cannot continue, it must be only in the beginning. Simple.



Now, you answer me, please? Can we have one plate oxidizing and the other not while ions are flowing in the electrolyte?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 10:10:18 PM
Lol plengo maybe you know more than I thought you know.what electrode material are you using in your latest if I may ask or is it a secret.  @ tesla oxide formation is corrosion.wether the corrosion halts at the first nanometers of oxide layer or cracks further though and cakes the whole mass is strictly determined by the chemistry of electrodes and electrolyte ie: aluminum is extremely reactive and will slowly cake allll way through.iron is less reactive and will corrode only a few nanometer then abrubtly halt,in alkali.in neutral ph iron will cake all way through,or up to a point(depends on how well sealed container is)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 27, 2014, 10:13:35 PM

Sure, they are the same BUT in the context of the cell, that redox cannot continue, it must be only in the beginning. Simple.



Now, you answer me, please? Can we have one plate oxidizing and the other not while ions are flowing in the electrolyte?

Fausto.

Thanks!  That is beyond me.  :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 10:15:44 PM
Lol plengo maybe you know more than I thought you know.what electrode material are you using in your latest if I may ask or is it a secret.  @ tesla oxide formation is corrosion.wether the corrosion halts at the first nanometers of oxide layer or cracks further though and cakes the whole mass is strictly determined by the chemistry of electrodes and electrolyte ie: aluminum is extremely reactive and will slowly cake allll way through.iron is less reactive and will corrode only a few nanometer then abrubtly halt,in alkali.in neutral ph iron will cake all way through


no, not a secret. It is some form (for now - testing, testing, testing) of galvanized metal, mixture of Zinc and carbon and many things including Molibidenio (very hard material).


Aluminum is great for testing, as you said, it will continue corroding. Once a friend, expert in chemistry, brought to my house a container of pure aluminum and then he touch it with an element and voilá, the aluminum started to grow intensively like a tree, it was fast and beautiful. I wish to know what was the other element (may be mercury?).


That day I realized that rocks and metals are not that solid as one would think and they are very "driely" reactive. Imagine a controlled reaction like that in a crystal cell BUT really controlled?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on September 27, 2014, 10:35:31 PM
@All,

I have a comment on the tsp thing.  tsp => TriSodium Phosphate. You should
look up TriSodium Phosphate and Sodium Meta Silicate on wikipedia.org Both
are used as industrial cleaners using mechanical and akaline chemistry to
remove grease.

=> Here's the thing; old style TSP contains phosphate and has been descheduled because that
creates environmental problems. So Manufactures are substituting compound mixtures in
place of real TSP to try to get equivalent cleaning power. They are free to make these mixtures
whatever from they like.  These could contain;  sodium carbonate (washing soda), sodium meta
silicate (water glass),  and zeolites.  The non-hydrated form of sodium meta silicate is acid/base
neutral while the hydrated form is apparently highly alkaline. So if you are interested in
"repeatability" I would pick one primary company like "Ace" or "Red Devil" and stick with them. If
you are trying to do reagent (chemically pure) repeatability one needs to be careful about what one
is adding and to make that clear in any documentation. I would assume that manufactures are
only listing the primary ingreadiant on their on product list.  Some manufactures use linear
programming to build what is currently the cheapest mix of materials.

---

Hyrdration means adding OH molecules from water to certain chemical molecules in a
mechanical way, I tend to think of it as further corrosion of the chemical, but it's actually a way
for additional water to move through a chemical cell. I think it uses coordinated bonding
(mechanical) not electronic bonding so you can often add  (or subtract) multiple occurances
of OH when there is sufficient water around.  Nine x OH's makes Sodium Meta Silcate
Nonohydrate  or same Nonohydroxide.

---

Question:
Could someone clarify in this  JT schematic, whether L1 and L2 inductors are wound on the
same or different inductor ferrite cores? So is there one torroid with four windings, or is there
more then one device?

---

Question:
Would the metal Magnesium form a thick Magnesium Oxide coating electrolytically
in Borax solution electrolyte like the Aluminium Oxide formed one there?

---

Thank you; users drodebbe and plengo. This has clarified a lot.


:S:MarkSCoffman

 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 10:36:33 PM
I see you instinctively are headed in right direction plengo there is a definite lust to electrostatochemicaly equilibrize between any different electrodes.dry  aluminum normaly has a tight oxide layer that inhibits corrosion in dry air but if you throw mercury on it it breaks that oxide skin,amalgamates,then catalyses further combustion caking yes.I did this classic experiment many times in earlier times twas fun.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 10:47:51 PM
magnesium or aluminum are way too reactive markscoffman.they are so reactive that aluminum caps with borax in them will even corrode through eventualy but extremely slowly(years).the washing powders of today use  sodium silicate for dual purpose alkaline dirt lifting power and lowers corrosion rate of aluminum washing machines
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 10:56:34 PM
Titanium is one example of an extremely reactive metal that forms such a tight passive layer in alkaline sol that it doesn't even register a potential close to its standard potential
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 11:17:25 PM
in regards to the joule thief coil.  I am currently using a transformer out of a tv set with a dual winding on an E core.  Both coils are the same in the circuit.  How ever I also the other day wound a joule thief coil of 60 turns and 20 turns on my crystal cell with no core and used another joule thief coil wound on a 1 inch torrid and it worked just as well.  Still got increased charging of crystal cell running the circuit.  The crystal cell I wound the coil on was a 3.5 inch pvc pipe 3.5 inches tall.  So I was surprised to see it also worked with this circuit.  The frequency will be different but it still works but have better results with the core.  When I get a way to do it I will get a picture out to you.  FYI  I have had one of my cells running the JT circuit and the voltage is still rising.  The LED is bright and the voltage is 1.198 volts started at 1.122 volts this morning. 

I will post the graphs in a little while. 

Fausto:

I hooked up the circuit as you said and I started at no load, 1.26 volts and when I hooked up the 100 ohm resister the voltage started to fall to about .820 volts and is now rising to .836 volts and still going up slowly.  I will let run for a couple hours and then post a graph.  Then tomorrow I will post a second graph. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 27, 2014, 11:21:06 PM
Titanium is one example of an extremely reactive metal that forms such a tight passive layer in alkaline sol that it doesn't even register a potential close to its standard potential


To my surprise when I tried titanium it did not work AT ALL.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 11:31:14 PM
Why surprise plengo.titanium won't corrode,magnesium will
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 11:36:33 PM
Fausto:  Here is the 10k run of one of my latest cells on the joule thief.  will post the 100 ohm  res. test in few hours.  Noticed the voltage is at
              0.837 still climbing.   



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 27, 2014, 11:51:43 PM
Here's a clue plengo,the lust on the surface is completely different to the lust below surface.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 01:21:55 AM
Here's a clue plengo,the lust on the surface is completely different to the lust below surface.


What is lust?

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 01:23:14 AM
Fausto:  Here is the 10k run of one of my latest cells on the joule thief.  will post the 100 ohm  res. test in few hours.  Noticed the voltage is at
              0.837 still climbing.


hmmmmm, very impressive indeed, exponential in the beginning as expected but very linear with time. Spikes are very constant and consistent.


All is very good in my opinion and very surprising too. Let's see when she will top off and maybe roll down (hopefully never).


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 01:28:15 AM
Lust(attraction) between different electrodes
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 01:32:37 AM
Lust(attraction) between different electrodes


I am lost, please explain.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 01:40:27 AM
Titanium wants to corrode badly underneath.titanium dioxide has no desire to corrode ontop.gold,has no desire to corrode underneath or ontop
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 01:49:14 AM
Its what happens at the top that determines the final potential.magnesium wants to corrode at the bottom,magnesium oxide doesn't want to corrode at the top,magnesium oxide is loosly bound and orientated,porous
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 28, 2014, 01:55:43 AM
Its what happens at the top that determines the final potential.magnesium wants to corrode at the bottom,magnesium oxide doesn't want to corrode at the top,magnesium oxide is loosly bound and orientated,porous

So in simple English, what do you think is better.. magnesium or aluminum?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 02:00:03 AM
Fausto: Here is the 17k run of cell across 100 ohm res.  The other cell just hit 1.206.  Will show new results tomorrow.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 02:03:26 AM
Aluminum is much more resistant in borax than magnesium,but not resistant enough.neither will do
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 28, 2014, 02:04:58 AM
Fausto: Here is the 17k run of cell across 100 ohm res.  The other cell just hit 1.206.  Will show new results tomorrow.

Nice!  I usually get about 1.3v with no load and .7v with load.. looking good!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 28, 2014, 02:06:11 AM
Aluminum is much more resistant in borax than magnesium,but not resistant enough.neither will do

Do you have a recommendation for the electrodes?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 02:10:33 AM
The start voltage would have been higher but I took it off the joule thief run and hooked up across 100 ohm load with out letting it settle out  for a while to reach its no load voltage.  Will do a better job.  Next time.  You know how newbies are!

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 02:13:22 AM
Fausto: Here is the 17k run of cell across 100 ohm res.  The other cell just hit 1.206.  Will show new results tomorrow.


ahhh, beauty.


New load she immediately decayed to its new level. I notice the first decay not being exponential like an asymptotic curve. The spikes are extremely constant which is also great. That means she did not break down inside and formed irregular "reactions" to support new higher load. [/size]

[/size]
The linear up curve is a great sign of indeed extra power coming from somewhere, but a little bit too early to say that. I expect a "reverberation" of the "shock" like many waves and diminishing as it does with time, almost like a electronic pulse into a LR and slowly it decays as it oscillates.[/size]

[/size]
In this case the cell should respond with a much higher "inertia". She will most probably go up and then a long curve down (don't worry yet) and eventually settle at a lower vale of the maximum bump that you will get right at first.[/size]

[/size]
If she continues going up after that we need to pay attention to the next 3 days of "shock wave" progress. Sometimes it will break the cell apart and she will simply die really fast, faster than you would imagine and make you go scratching your head (she was going so well, umf, umf  :'( ).


If she passes those 3 days and again stabilize at a linear decay or even a flat line we are about to talk business here. If she starts growing faster even though linearly or even worse, exponentially higher we are in trouble, she is dying. I know, it does not make much sense but it is just like that.


Now, make sure ambient does not affect her too much, so do some bumps in the table with your fist and see if the graph changes abruptly or not at all. Abruptly means the crystal is also not formed yet to its mature age. If it causes a long little wave we are again in great shape (crystal is solidifying).


Some people may be wondering where I get all those "insights", well don't worry, they are only "monkey science".


For now this graph is showing the early signs of a great progress you already accomplish BUT you will need to leave her in this meter for a good MONTH.


Fausto.

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 02:14:56 AM
The start voltage would have been higher but I took it off the joule thief run and hooked up across 100 ohm load with out letting it settle out  for a while to reach its no load voltage.  Will do a better job.  Next time.  You know how newbies are!

David


Don't use the thief on this cell on the graph, please, let it be with just the linear load. Pulsing will change everything to a totally new area of research. I did extensive research with pulsing and those cells simply love it.


But for now lets just learn from this simple linear load.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 28, 2014, 02:19:53 AM
The start voltage would have been higher but I took it off the joule thief run and hooked up across 100 ohm load with out letting it settle out  for a while to reach its no load voltage.  Will do a better job.  Next time.  You know how newbies are!

David

I'm a newbie when it comes to chemistry.  :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 02:26:35 AM
I'm thinking I'm thinking..the thing is,we don't want a karpen effect we want continuous flow here
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 03:21:46 AM
here are the types of coils I am using for the joule thief circuit.  They are line input filter chokes.  I get them out of old tv sets and power supplies.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 28, 2014, 03:43:37 AM
I've done some research on TSP/90.  Red Devil's version isn't pure Sodium Metasilicate.  It is Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate.  This is known to prevent corrosion on metal.  8)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 03:58:12 AM
I've done some research on TSP/90.  Red Devil's version isn't pure Sodium Metasilicate.  It is Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate.  This is known to prevent corrosion on metal.  8)


I was able to buy that PURE at ebay once.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 04:45:07 AM
I almost forgot to share undeniable evidence in favor of a non corrosive cell (at least that's how I see it, if someone knows more, PLEASE, bring arguments that will clarify my mistake).


I took one of my one-cell, casted, into the freezer and let it there for a few hours. Before that the voltage under 100 ohm load was around 7.6 mv or so.


After removing from the freezer I measure its temperature and it was below 10 Celsius degrees (-11 to be exact) and the running voltage across the 100 ohm resistor was .2 mv and slowly went to .5 mv (-10 Celcius) and to 1mv (-3 Celcius) and to 2 and to 3mv and still growing, last measure was 7.83 mv and growing.


Moral of the story: I believe that at below water freezing point there would be no corrosion possible since water would be , obviously, frozen prohibiting ion flow. No ion flow, no galvanic reaction or REDOX. It is possible to have corrosion (oxidation for example) but not having electrical current flow as a byproduct just like a regular battery would.


A capacitor I would think would be still discharging under this low temperature but it is a capacitor and not a chemical reaction of sorts.


Anyone to give some input?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 09:50:21 AM
your on the right track plengo but freezing is definitely not the way to eliminate possibility of corrosion.corrosion will happen even close to zero kelvin so long as air-moisture and o2 is available.one way to check for zero corrosion is to do the stepdown-spillover test that I did in karpen thread and it must be done rapidly.the other way is to get spontaneous REVERSE-POTENTIALS as I showed in other thread.you are absolute correct,we want the electrochemical voltage potential,not the corrosion.check out what happens in a photoelectrochemical system,you get eg, the iodine redox-system going like this at one electrode I2 + 2e- = 2 I- and reverse at other while light falls on one electrode.so the redox system is just acting like a see-through copper-sheet conductor.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 01:42:40 PM
Fausto:  Here are this mornings results.  The run on the joule thief and on the 100 ohm Load.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 04:47:55 PM
I am posting this link again.  I didn't receive any comments about it.  This is where I got most of my ideas on this latest cell.  I think he has some important ideas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7y8ek9aASQ

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on September 28, 2014, 05:55:07 PM
 what is reids' electrodes made of
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 07:52:58 PM
Fausto:  Here are this mornings results.  The run on the joule thief and on the 100 ohm Load.

David


Excellent. IF the first one is the one with Joule Thief I can see in the end the consequences of it. See the spikes? they are becoming more erratic.


The second graph is awesome. She is running great. Let her run for a month, please and study the results.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 28, 2014, 09:02:10 PM
Fausto:   Here is the latest.  I changed the line stile and shut off the pointing style to clear up the line to see what is going on.  Also hooked up my first cell before this one to a 100 ohm load and it is around .960 volts.  I will let this one run and see how it does.  I have the same mix in the cell but different style of plates.  Did you watch the video yet.  I would like to here your comments on what he is doing.  This is where I got my info on these new cells. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 28, 2014, 09:32:08 PM
Fausto:   Here is the latest.  I changed the line stile and shut off the pointing style to clear up the line to see what is going on.  Also hooked up my first cell before this one to a 100 ohm load and it is around .960 volts.  I will let this one run and see how it does.  I have the same mix in the cell but different style of plates.  Did you watch the video yet.  I would like to here your comments on what he is doing.  This is where I got my info on these new cells. 

David


David I have seen that video and ALL his videos. Very impressive his work. Actually it is because HIS work I really got involved in this cell research.


Many of his graphs and explanations go very inline with my findings except with the thermo tests because I don't have means to use a calorimeter.


For example, the cell has its self-charging which does not pass a limit and therefore indeed works are a current source and not as a voltage source. With many resistor values the response IS DIFFERENT in a not similar manner, in other words, voltage does not become linear as expected to the ration of resistance but the current.


THe voltage shooting high really fast also happens with my cells when adding water at different times and then the cell stabilizes really quick which is very interesting his explanation why (matrix of diapoles aligning at the same time creating an adding effect of voltage - mini batteries in series inside).


Cell does fluctuate in power with time but constantly same average even though it is a constant source of power.


There are many other similarities with his graphs and my finding but I don't remember all now.




Fausto.

Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 29, 2014, 01:44:42 AM
@David,


I am curious, what is the dimensions of your cell and weight? Can you share a picture of it?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 29, 2014, 04:05:31 AM
I am posting this link again.  I didn't receive any comments about it.  This is where I got most of my ideas on this latest cell.  I think he has some important ideas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7y8ek9aASQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7y8ek9aASQ)

David

Thanks David!

 I've been to Marcus' website, but never seen the video.. I watched part 3 and in there he talks about how he would like to try different silicates.. then he says that he uses a group that has 150.. after googling I found that group is Zeolite!!

Some zeolites we already know, but some I didn't.  Here is a list of some of the zeolites that look promising!

quartz, calcite, scolecite, clinoptilolite, pryrite, thenardite (sodium sulfate), halite (rock salt), and erionite.  There are 40 natural zeolites!

I bet Marcus uses one or more of these that I listed above.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 29, 2014, 09:17:23 AM
Okay.. I've compiled a list of about 130 Zeolites.  I bold the ones I thought looked good.. anyone want to go through the list and mark any others that might be good?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 29, 2014, 03:17:38 PM
Hi again:  here is the latest results of the cell across 100 ohm load.

Thanks 4tesla for your research and info.  I will look at it.  When I saw his 2nd video I started to research some of his papers and found some where on the net a paper he wrote where he stated he used the sodium meta silicate.  This was an older paper so I am sure he has refined the formula since it was written.  But I thought it was a major find and that is why I built this cell using that compound.  It looks like it has paid off.  Not sure now if the pentahydrate part of it is a plus or not.  I saw that in the msds sheet I looked up after the fact.  It wasn't stated that way on the package.  It just said sodium meta silicate.  Maybe it is a plus because it was stated that it has some corrosion benefits. That is defiantly a benefit! 

Fausto:  I don't have a camera yet but I will next month.  Will maybe try my hand at Hollywood productions as you do. But I will as soon as I am through with this post cad cam up a drawing.  Been meaning to do so anyway!  I will post it in a little while.  Thanks for your input as well as all the others.  I am going to make another cell after I post the drawing.  I am pleased with the results as you will see with the latest graph.  At least I think it is good.  You may look at it and say.....oh my I think it is dying by my experience!  So your input will be greatly appreciated.  May not make the second cell.  Depends on your response.  Thanks again. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 29, 2014, 04:51:45 PM
Here is the construction diagram of the crystal cell.  It isn't perfect and I didn't follow the normal drafting rules but just did the best with what I had and the fastest.  Don't as of yet have all my needed tools to produce better results.  Maybe in future. Included both metric and English  units.  cell made out of standard 3 inch pvc pipe.  All aluminum plates connected together, and all copper plates connected together.  Forgot to include on diagram at the bottom on each side of the aluminum plates except for the two outside ones I glued at the bottom a 1/4 inch insulated spacer then the bolts at the top have nuts spaced to secure the plates to the bolt and space the plates at the same time.  Hope this all makes sense!

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 29, 2014, 05:14:48 PM
Don't forget to electroplate the aluminum oxide coating on the aluminum plates before you install plates in container.  Also heat up the copper plates until they are cherry red then let cool.  Don't remove the black coating by putting in borax solution.  Just let them cool. I do both operations with the cells bolted and spaced then I slide them between each other and install in the container then mix the compound and pore.  I am using you know 1/2 portland cement and 1/2 sodium meta silicate by weight and mixing with the sodium hydroxide solution to a slurry good enough to pore in between plates.  Solution is 1/2 tsp per 4oz distilled water by volume.  I mix up enough solution to do all the poring at once, that way the solution concentration is the same for the batch.  The same if you are making more that one cell.  I did this for my 10 cells I made a while ago and they all came out with in a few thousands of a volt of each other.  I measured them the other day and they are still all close to each other and setting at around 1.25 volts.  Made them a month ago.

Note:  Make the aluminum plate positive and use a carbon rod for the negative.  I use a small ups 12 battery for the supply in a solution of borax and distilled water for 1/2 hour.  After that time you will see a thick coating on the aluminum about 1/16 of an inch.  Try not to disturb this coating.  I let dry on a paper towel for a while while I am making the copper plate assembly.  Then gently slide together and install in container,  then pore.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 29, 2014, 05:19:10 PM
@David,  (update: ops only now I notice your 2 previous posts with dimension - thank you)[/size]


I need to know the dimensions of your cell that will tell me how much power it has and how long it should maintain the up move of the curve.


"Don't lick before it drops", my wife says that all the time to me. Your curve is excellent so far, fluctuations are actually good. Think, it cannot grow indefinitely because that would certainly mean a corrosion effect. The correct cell should reach a plato for its current constant linear load (resistor) and fluctuate up and down since then indefinitely.


If it keeps only rising and the cell size dictates the limit we would be in the wrong direction at part. That's why it is crucial to know the dimension and weight and how tick are the metals specially.


Don't freak out when it starts going down abruptly that does not mean much yet either. I have many cells that goes like the and they come back to be like waves in the middle of the ocean, which is great.


Since the curve you have based on the number of samples (seconds), I can see it has a very slow possible corrosion and indeed it could be eating up the aluminum oxide layer through and reaching the aluminum. Opening the cells in one month will have to be done. I know it hurts to do that.


So, create about 10 cells JUST LIKE THAT ONE. Keep it off meters and every so OFTEN right it down its voltage to 3 digits at least. Later you destroy one of those cells in one month and see inside. Next on the second month the second cell and so forth until all are gone and you can see a possible rate of corrosion OR NOT (hopefully).


Corrosion does not mean a bad cell per see. Constant corrosion is the problem. We will always have initial corrosion because the initial water content.


Now to Marcus Reid videos. He clearly says (in the video you posted in particular) that the WATER MOLECULES THAT ALIGNING are the ones that gives that VOLTAGE and consequently the current BUT the current does not comes from ions movement, so where that current comes from?


He also says (a lot) "vibration" and even gigahertz of frequencies from the environment heat and quantum fluctuation. That is the Quartz function (zeolites?) That vibration causes the water molecules to release its "electrons" and the next "matrix polarized molecule" attracts it and continues the "electron" flow. The two "diode" layers provides one more guarantee of directional flow of electrons instead of just random flows.


The water retention IS THE PENTAHYDRATE, so it is indeed helping you instead of not helping. Sodium silicate (water glass) is very electrostatic. Look at the experiment from Lord Kelvin with the water streams and metal buckets (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1w2nTfWYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1w2nTfWYY)). Try to "understand" where the energy for the sparks (thousands of volts) comes from. Some would say from the air, others from both water and air friction. I would say from water only. Which the cells do something similar inside.


Fausto.


Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 29, 2014, 05:41:16 PM
Don't forget to electroplate the aluminum oxide coating on the aluminum plates before you install plates in container.  Also heat up the copper plates until they are cherry red then let cool.  Don't remove the black coating by putting in borax solution.  Just let them cool. I do both operations with rthe cells bolted and spaced then I slide them between each other and install in the container then mix the compound and pore.  I am using you know 1/2 portland cement and 1/2 sodium meta silicate by weight and mixing with the sodium hydroxide solution to a slurry good enough to pore in between plates.  Solution is 1/2 tsp per 4oz distilled water by volume.  I mix up enough solution to do all the poring at once, that way the solution concentration is the same for the batch.  The same if you are making more that one cell.  I did this for my 10 cells I made a while ago and they all came out with in a few thousands of a volt of each other.  I measured them the other day and they are still all close to each other and setting at around 1.25 volts.  Made them a month ago.

Note:  Make the aluminum plate positive and use a carbon rod for the negative.  I use a small ups 12 battery for the supply in a solution of borax and distilled water for 1/2 hour.  After that time you will see a thick coating on the aluminum about 1/16 of an inch.  Try not to disturb this coating.  I let dry on a paper towel for a while while I am making the copper plate assembly.  Then gently slide together and install in container,  then pore.

David


Excellent thank you.


So, your cell is pretty much the same dimensions as mine with the exception that your cell is double the width of mine. You are also putting ONE CELL with many inside cells in parallel explaining the excellent current output you have and since this cell is a "current source" it will hold pretty well the voltage you have.


I would guarantee you that 5 of those ONE CELL will light up an LED super bright, cudos to you. :)


So you mix the portland cement with the remaining electrolyte into one big mix and pour it on the cell? hmmmm.


I did some electrolysis as you did once (with different compounds) and it is the cell I have on the video with a 25watts light. I notice at the time the coating of orange/black color that formed over the magnesium and copper metals. That cell was wonderful in its power output. BUT it eventually dried out and not even water would work any more. I decided for now not go into that field.


BUT, you ARE IN THAT FIELD which is awesome. Let's work on that now then.


Try creating one more cell too and let is dry, measure its voltage open and closed with a 100 ohm resistor (the open voltage will helps to find out the internal resistance later). After one week try to put a few drops of water (now on the graph) and see the response curve. Send me that response please.


You don't have to do all this now, it is too much work, just keep in mind that experiment. This will tells us the following:


- Increasing rate of corrosion because water insertion and cell absorption rate of water ratio.
- Response of change in internal resistance
- See if cell will in the end of absorbing the water will continue AS IF THE WATER NEVER WAS THERE. The same linear decay with the exception of the "bump" of when adding the water. This tells me the sensitiveness of the cell and if it indeed needs adding water with time.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 29, 2014, 06:05:13 PM
Hi David,

Thanks for the detailed instructions and drawings.  I do think that pentahydrate is a big plus, otherwise the formula is just like Sodium Silicate.

I can't wait to start experimenting with these materials.

Thanks,
4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 29, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
The two "diode" layers provides one more guarantee of directional flow of electrons instead of just random flows.

These diode layers.. is that just oxide coating?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 29, 2014, 07:34:47 PM
These diode layers.. is that just oxide coating?


I have no idea. I was just re-saying what he said.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 29, 2014, 07:54:32 PM

I have no idea. I was just re-saying what he said.

I think it is.. I was looking at how to make homemade diodes and oxidizing is a method mentioned.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 29, 2014, 09:55:45 PM
Yes:  about the diodes.  That is what I did after watching the videos!  I went on the internet and looked up how to make the old style selenium diodes and noticed they mentioned a aluminum oxide diode as well.  very low voltage but high current.  So I looked up how to deposit the oxide on the aluminum.. Was trying a aluminum powder but having trouble figuring out how to bind it to the aluminum and get conduction.  Did not want binder to reduce conduction so I used the electrolysis method...  You will be really surprised after 1/2 hour with 12 volts how thick it becomes.  Almost can measure with ruler.  Ha!

Thanks for your info.  I will work on your suggestions.

David. 

 
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 29, 2014, 10:18:56 PM
4Tesla:  Yes the diode layers he talkes about in the video is the oxide coating. If you remember in the bedini videos on his crystal cells he always heated the copper to get the red oxide coating.  You are doing the same thing with the aluminum but with electrolysis instead.  before you get any oxide coating on the aluminum by heating I think it will melt.  That is what it did for me.  But being impatient as I am I used a blow torch!!   
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 12:58:45 AM
Thanks David!!

It is a 2in1 solution.. both a diode and a protective layer.

Very cool!  8)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 02:45:34 AM
Fausto:

Hooked up my original cell I made a month ago to a 100 ohm load just to see what it would do.  I made it the same way but no cement.  Made from 1.5 inch by 4.5 inch long thick walled aluminum conduit and a 1/2 in copper pipe.  The graph is close to other one but I see it is curving down a bit.  It looked almost like the one I have been posting at first but it is at .661 volts and curving down.  Not sure where it is going at this point.  Will see tomorrow.  Have a good evening. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 03:31:12 AM
Hi David,

I was wondering.. once the oxides are dry.. are they hard or do they rub off easily.

Thanks,
4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 02:12:48 PM
4Tesla:  Yes it will rub off real easy.  I only let it dry for about an hour.  It will take a couple days other wise before it drys to that level. 

Here is my graphs for this morning.  I included the old first cell with just the sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide and no cement.  But the aluminum cylinder was treated with the oxide layer.  It was made over a month ago and has been setting on shelf.  I was surprised to see that it functioned almost as good as the latest cell with the larger number of plates.  So we will see after time as Fausto has said.  If any one has a better idea of how to get a thick layer of oxide on the aluminum please share.  I originally was going to try the powdered aluminum oxide but wasn't sure how to get it to stick on the aluminum.  Maybe wetting it with water and forming a past then spreading it on like butter then letting it dry may work.  I might try that with some flat plates for simplicity sake.  Will have to purchase some though.  The graph on the older cell doesn't show it but it started out at 1.25 volts.  I will in the future have to let the graph run for a little while before connecting the load to reflect this.  I connected the load almost as soon as I started the graph.  Just FYI.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 30, 2014, 04:28:36 PM
4Tesla:  Yes it will rub off real easy.  I only let it dry for about an hour.  It will take a couple days other wise before it drys to that level. 

Here is my graphs for this morning.  I included the old first cell with just the sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide and no cement.  But the aluminum cylinder was treated with the oxide layer.  It was made over a month ago and has been setting on shelf.  I was surprised to see that it functioned almost as good as the latest cell with the larger number of plates.  So we will see after time as Fausto has said.  If any one has a better idea of how to get a thick layer of oxide on the aluminum please share.  I originally was going to try the powdered aluminum oxide but wasn't sure how to get it to stick on the aluminum.  Maybe wetting it with water and forming a past then spreading it on like butter then letting it dry may work.  I might try that with some flat plates for simplicity sake.  Will have to purchase some though.  The graph on the older cell doesn't show it but it started out at 1.25 volts.  I will in the future have to let the graph run for a little while before connecting the load to reflect this.  I connected the load almost as soon as I started the graph.  Just FYI.

David


Thank you for the graphs again. We need some reorganization. Give each cell a specific number/name while uploading the pictures so that we know which picture is what from older posts. Now I am confused to which one is the FIRST you showed before and what you have.


The cells without load we cannot really consider except to note the "open" voltage (no load) and later we will use that as a base line to calculate its internal resistance.


Don't worry about going down/up yet. That IS WHAT WE NEED TO SEE.


On this second graph, I notice two little bumps right after the first exponential decay and its recovery when you put the load. Did you bang the table or moved the cell while connected? If NOT, that bump is the break down of crystal structure inside the cell (release of water/gasses) that causes a momentary "bust" of power because the water release inside which increase conductivity inside the cell and "more fuel" until it gets absorbed again by the crystals.


How I know that? Because in hundreds of cells I did this experiment where I leave it under load and constantly add water at different time of its life while connected on the graph and perceived the same reaction.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 05:23:41 PM
Fausto:  If you look at the bottom of the graph you will note the file name.  The multi plate cell which Was the original post shows crystal cell 1-9 which means 1st cell 9th picture also note the run time above 200k.  The very last graph of the last post at the bottom you will see aluminum conduit 1-3 this is the old cell I made around a month ago with just the sodium meta silicate and no cement.  Thought you might be interested in one of the older cells.  I was!  And yes I did bump it.  It fell over on the table while I was cleaning up and making some room to work.  Sorry.  Very observant!  Not really going to post much on the conduit cell.  Just wanted every one to notice what kind of success you can get using the sodium meta silicate pentahydrate. Thanks for input.  I am trying as we speak some other ideas of coating the aluminum.  One last thing.  The aluminum conduit is about 1/8 inch thick.  Would take a while to corrode this one to nothing.  Do you think?

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 05:34:01 PM
Fausto:   How do you get so much done on so much testing if you have to tie up a computer and a meter for over a month plus bench space.  I have two computers on by bench with two logging meters and am seeing the restrictions of space, equipment and time.  My hat goes off to you!

will try to do better to identify my graphs!  Thanks.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 30, 2014, 09:26:14 PM
Fausto:   How do you get so much done on so much testing if you have to tie up a computer and a meter for over a month plus bench space.  I have two computers on by bench with two logging meters and am seeing the restrictions of space, equipment and time.  My hat goes off to you!

will try to do better to identify my graphs!  Thanks.

David


Oh good about the identifications (I missed those numbers). 1/8" of oxide is indeed a lot of things to corrode BUT i had Magnesium bars of 1" tick and they vanished .   :P


I will try to build one of your cells.


Concerning testing, yes you are right, very little space and lots of testing. What I do is very simple. I create a new formula and build 10 single cells (2 metal plates only). With each one I try in groups of 2 different sealing mechanisms and different water feeding tests. One cell of those of the 5 groups I put on the meter. Usually the one not sealed so I use it as base-line.


The graph runs for a week which gives a sense of where it is going. Than I switch to another cell on the same group to the graph and starts measuring only with the meter the other cells and the one I just removed from the meter.


In one month I will be able to find out which one is with a better probability of succeeding.  The graphs are the key. After looking at hundreds and hundreds of graphs you start having a very good intuition of what is going on.


Next step is (by 2 week) I started another formula or physical different structure based on the results of the first and second cell of the same group. So now I have always 5 groups running in sequence. This allows me to quickly move towards a better formula/physical structure. If I see something really cool but no graph available because the other tests, I do it by hand every so often measuring with my 6 digits meter and putting all in paper.


So basically I have an empirical group of 5 cells recorded. A few, usually another 5 single cells, spawning from those 2 first week cells and keep in paper. By one month you will certainly have enough data to change ONE PARAMETER ONLY on the formula or physical structure, NEVER more than one parameter.


So you have it, I have lots of time at hand because I am a "batman" that does not sleep until 2pm. Now being a cab driver (used to be a software engineer) I have even more time because I work in the nights only.


Every cell has a name/number/formula/date and a hint of what I expect. You can collect lots of data like that.


This is one of the reasons I opened a fund with the hope of being able to buy more laptops (cheap ones) with more meters/graphs, more 6 digits meters and more physical lab equipment to improve the quality of the chemicals build.


I also have a 500x micro-camera that connects to the computer where I can see at a very good level the metal corrosion and its interaction with the crystals.


One EXTREMELY important thing is to OPEN all these cells each month but not the super running well until about 3 months later or when they die.


You got see my "cemetery" of cells, it is gigantic. I don't know how I will recycle those metals.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 09:59:54 PM
Hi Fausto,

What is the meter that you use that connects to the PC?

Thanks,
4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 30, 2014, 10:10:42 PM
Hi Fausto,

What is the meter that you use that connects to the PC?

Thanks,
4Tesla


http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12988573 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12988573)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack-22-812-46-Range-Digital-Multimeter-with-PC-Interface-RS-232-/111474199377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f4614b51
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 10:22:05 PM

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12988573 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12988573)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack-22-812-46-Range-Digital-Multimeter-with-PC-Interface-RS-232-/111474199377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f4614b51 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack-22-812-46-Range-Digital-Multimeter-with-PC-Interface-RS-232-/111474199377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f4614b51)

Thanks!

If you're looking for a cheap laptop.. this one is hard to beat for the price!

HP 15-g070nr at $220!  Note there is an error in the url.. there is no optical drive.

http://www.amazon.com/HP-15-g070nr-15-6-Inch-Optical-Included/dp/B00KCU5TIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412108127&sr=8-1&keywords=HP+-+15-g070nr+Laptop (http://www.amazon.com/HP-15-g070nr-15-6-Inch-Optical-Included/dp/B00KCU5TIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412108127&sr=8-1&keywords=HP+-+15-g070nr+Laptop)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 10:38:05 PM
Fausto: 

        Thanks a lot for your explanation of how you test your cells.  Wow that is a lot of work.  So one other thing.  How do you pore your two plate cells.  Do you have a mold, you put them in,  pore them, then remove?  I have been wanting to figure out something quick and dirty so as to save material and make it easier to tear down and inspect.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 10:41:55 PM
I bought my radio shack meter off of amazon for 18.00.  I paid I think around 30.00 at radio shack for the first one.  It is brand new and works ever bit as good.  I think it is an older model but who cares.  I think it uses a 9v battery and the newer model I bought at radio shack uses AA's.  The program is the same so I would buy the 18.00 if it were me!

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 10:55:55 PM
I bought my radio shack meter off of amazon for 18.00.  I paid I think around 30.00 at radio shack for the first one.  It is brand new and works ever bit as good.  I think it is an older model but who cares.  I think it uses a 9v battery and the newer model I bought at radio shack uses AA's.  The program is the same so I would buy the 18.00 if it were me!

David

I really like the software.  I wish there was a cheap desktop version that uses that software.

Edit: I found this adapter.. the 9v version would be good when used with this.. no need for batteries!
http://www.amazon.com/HQRP-Battery-Connector-Adapter-9-Volt/dp/B00C9VGVO2 (http://www.amazon.com/HQRP-Battery-Connector-Adapter-9-Volt/dp/B00C9VGVO2)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on September 30, 2014, 11:22:03 PM
That is what I am using.  I have two desk top computers under my work bench with the monitors, keyboard, and mouse setting at the back of work bench.  I went to lumber company and bought the largest door I could find with out holes and made it my work bench.  It is 36 inches deep so plenty of work space with flat screen monitors at back.  I went to computer repair shop and they gave me a bunch of broken computers and monitors for nothing.  I use to repair them for living in my early years so I was able to get several running for test equipment and have the rest for spare parts.  Even fixed a couple and gave away.  The software works fine on these.  The software disk you get with the meter includes windows xp, vista, 7 and 8.  So your are good to go if you have a desktop. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on September 30, 2014, 11:27:44 PM
Thank you both for the input on the meter!  I think I'll get one.. very cool for $20!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on September 30, 2014, 11:57:52 PM
Fausto: 

        Thanks a lot for your explanation of how you test your cells.  Wow that is a lot of work.  So one other thing.  How do you pore your two plate cells.  Do you have a mold, you put them in,  pore them, then remove?  I have been wanting to figure out something quick and dirty so as to save material and make it easier to tear down and inspect.

David


In my last video in the end, you can see I am holding one plate with paper cut out in two sections. The paper is less than 1 mm thick. I mix my compound with enough water to make it consistent like ketchup, then I pour it on each cut out sections. Gravity distribute it automatically making it a nice flat area.


With that technique I use about 1/8 tsp of mixed compound per cell making it very cheap to create. I wait it to dry until crystal structure starts shinning on top, must step, and then I stack the cells together and a few more complicated things that I am still solving to make it very repeatable.


In your case you could to exactly the same. You don't need lots of electrolyte in between the cells, actually, too much of it makes the internal resistance of the cell too high.


Another thing which is important to ALL understand about this cells and actually any AA, AAA, C, D cells.


The internal resistance of those cells (including ours) is not very consistent making it difficult to put them in parallel. Why? because if one internal resistance is different than the next one in parallel, that cell will FEED the next cell which defeat the purpose of putting them together. This is one of the reasons you don't see electronic devices using many batteries in parallel. If one needs more CURRENT they buy a BIGGER battery.


Our cells will have and have the same problem, specially with our non industrialized manufacturing process. Making our cells also with larger plates will not cut the problem either, since it will need perfect thickness throughout the whole cell.


Once we industrialize this we will be able to create much larger cells that produces more current.


I am really interested in trying the aluminum oxide technique you create, that is unique to you David, kudos to you.


Another point, keep making ALL your cells for now with the exact same sizes so that you can develop a sense of base-line as time passes. If you make other cell sizes just take their data more like experiments really.


I used to make cells without documenting the process and every time a GREAT CELL worked I was bummed of not having it documented.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 01, 2014, 02:38:50 AM
Fausto:

Thanks for the info:  Just about an hour ago I had my program lock up on me and it said it needed to shut down.  This was on my latest test cell.  So I lost the long term graph. I have the graphs up to that point.  So what to do?  I am going to work on the smaller cells.  Because in the past month I have gone through around 10 lbs of sodium meta silicate and about 4 lbs of cement.  So I am not going to produce any supper cells for a while.  Would like to see what results you all get if you make the multi plate cell as per diagram.  The cell is still at .918 volts and holding.  Not sure if I should restart the graph or not.  What do you think? 

I tried a little some thing different to day, just because.  I had some MnO2 from a dry cell I tore down and I mixed a little of this up in a past with distilled water and coated both the treated aluminum and the treated copper with a thin layer and let dry.  I then mixed the cement and sodium meta silicate with the sodium hydroxide solution and pored a cell and did the same procedure with the battery while it was setting.  only got .789 volts out of it after it set but the current is higher.  I hooked up my joule thief and the voltage hardly dropped at all.  I think this may protect the plates from corrosion.  Not sure but wanted to set one up and see how the aluminum is after a month.  Just something to do.  May stumble on to something some day.  You know the saying..... even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.  I think I might be turning into a monkey scientist.  Ha! Ha!.  Sorry!  I won't take your degree from you.  Fausto.  You have earned it! 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on October 01, 2014, 06:18:21 AM
I bought the 2200039 version of the RadioShack 46-Range.  I got this version because I know it uses a 9v battery and not AAs.. I also bought a 9v AC adapter to use instead of battery.  Can't wait to try out.  Best bang for the buck for a DMM that connects to PC!

http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200039_PM_EN.pdf

I also have a Fluke 87, which I love, but can't connect to PC.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 01, 2014, 06:39:50 AM
Fausto:

Thanks for the info:  Just about an hour ago I had my program lock up on me and it said it needed to shut down.  This was on my latest test cell.  So I lost the long term graph. I have the graphs up to that point.  So what to do?  I am going to work on the smaller cells.  Because in the past month I have gone through around 10 lbs of sodium meta silicate and about 4 lbs of cement.  So I am not going to produce any supper cells for a while.  Would like to see what results you all get if you make the multi plate cell as per diagram.  The cell is still at .918 volts and holding.  Not sure if I should restart the graph or not.  What do you think? 

I tried a little some thing different to day, just because.  I had some MnO2 from a dry cell I tore down and I mixed a little of this up in a past with distilled water and coated both the treated aluminum and the treated copper with a thin layer and let dry.  I then mixed the cement and sodium meta silicate with the sodium hydroxide solution and pored a cell and did the same procedure with the battery while it was setting.  only got .789 volts out of it after it set but the current is higher.  I hooked up my joule thief and the voltage hardly dropped at all.  I think this may protect the plates from corrosion.  Not sure but wanted to set one up and see how the aluminum is after a month.  Just something to do.  May stumble on to something some day.  You know the saying..... even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.  I think I might be turning into a monkey scientist.  Ha! Ha!.  Sorry!  I won't take your degree from you.  Fausto.  You have earned it! 

David


Create a new graph. We know already what it was by the pics you posted. The point is not to have a perfect record but a bulk record so feel the trend. I also keep taking screen-pics of the graphs as time passes since the meter battery dies (ironic) and/or the graph buffer becomes full.


4 lbs???!!! owww, that is a lot. Make them smaller for sure. Mine are 1" x 3" only each little cell and usually I put 10 of those to form one running LED cell. So it takes very little of material, specially the compound.


I tried with MnO2 and it does help because it will absorb the Hydrogen BUT it is very toxic. I am totally running away from it and from Iron Pyrite because Pyrite with water will become sulfuric acid. Many mines in the past had this problem.



Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on October 01, 2014, 08:26:52 AM
I am totally running away from it and from Iron Pyrite because Pyrite with water will become sulfuric acid. Many mines in the past had this problem.

That is good to know about Pyrite.  I didn't know that.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 01, 2014, 06:28:02 PM
Good Day every one!  Just came back from a run to Menard's Lumber co.  You know!  First of month. Got paid!  Could not get the TSP-90 at ace hardware.  Was out.  I did back order 4 lbs of it though.  I found at Menard's a TSP substitute and this is what it is called.  Found it in the paint section.  4lbs for 9.00 and some odd change.  They looked up msds sheet and it is sodium meta silicate and some other additive.  I bought some anyway to see if it is better, worse, or the same.  They probably added some inert ingredient so they could put there name on it.  May be not! Will see how it works.  I am making a few cells today.  I did find some aluminum conduit 3/4 inch couplings with two screws attached on both ends.  Got a bag for 3.90 something.  Will use 1/2 inch copper pipe and so I won't be using much compound.  Will let you know how the new stuff works.  I noticed the particles are much finer and look like small crystals.  The TSP-90 is much courser and don't even look like a crystal.  These look like they were grown that way.  I will be posting the graph of the first multi plate cell later today.  Want to let it run for a while on graph.  It has leveled out at 0.961 volts.  Not bad!  May be, may be not!

David   
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 02, 2014, 12:04:05 AM
Fausto:  Latest graph since I restarted. 

I have made a new cell from the new compound called TSP Substitute by Sunnyside.  Purchased at Menards. For a little over 9.00 for 4lbs.  So far I can see no difference.  I just made a cell from the 3/4 inch aluminum conduit coupling and a 2'' copper 1/2 inch pipe.  I did not even treat the aluminum or the copper just wanted to see if it was close to my first cell I ever did when I first used this stuff and I am getting 1.05 volts  unloaded and 70ma dead short.  I am going to buy this from now on.  I don't have to special order it.  It is also a finer crystal.  The crystals look like very very very small quarts crystal points if you know what I am talking about.  The TSP 90 from ace looks like just granules such as sand.  So let me know what you think, every one!

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 02, 2014, 12:51:27 AM
It is me again!  Just checked my converted ups 12 volt battery.  Now a crystal cell.  Filled with the sodium meta silicate almost 2 months ago and I checked it and it is at 12.40 volts.  I tried to measure the current.  Big mistake!  I am getting over 10 amps because my meter went over range and started to melt the leads!  I know Bedini's converted alum battery was some where around 11 volts I think.  I know I did one and that is what I was getting.  Don't think I was getting this kind of amps though!  May be wrong.  Too far back to remember.  It does charge on the charger just fine.  I have a charger with a microprocessor and It cycles the battery up and down.  Neat to watch on logging meter!  Well Just thought you might be interested if you want to try this new stuff in a motor cycle battery.  Next project.  I am looking for something like this to run my 3 phase pulse motors I build.  Sort of like a 3 phase Bedini/cole window motor but 3 phase and my own design.  Will share diagram on another forum if you want it.  I think I already did some time ago,  somewhere!  I think!  Ok.  Later.

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: mscoffman on October 02, 2014, 12:54:40 AM
plengo,

You need to think about determining the internal impedance of your batteries or you could be missing out
on some important information you should be taking during each experiment. The problem is that your 100 Ohm
resistor will only allow 10ma to flow for each volt of your battery. Using chemistry is going to limit your cell
voltage to between .5->3. VDC. Note that at 3vdc you are dissipating only 90mW. Because of the chemistry voltage
limit, you'll need to maximize current to find cells that can produce higher powers. This is why internal impedance
is critical.  You'll never end up seeing what you could get if you don't do impedance matching. You need for your external
resistor to match the internal cell impedance for you to have maximum power transfer. You should consider having
a wire wound potentiometer so you can measure volt x amps at a number of different resistance settings. Compute
these wattages and pick the maximum wattage. The potentiometer setting at max wattage equals your cell's current
internal impedance. Ultimately you may want to have your computer or a microcontroller do this for you.

---

I think the Conservation of energy law says as you dissipate at higher powers some macroscopic aspect of the battery must
change or you would be violating CoE. You just want the developments to have a power uptrend not necessarily acid/lead type
net power capability.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 02, 2014, 01:31:53 AM
The best way to rule out galvanic corrosion : seal the whole thing in a minimal-size glass bulb,just 2 naked(metallic copper) wires emerging and watch the power ratings over the next few days/weeks.if power drops then its corrosion (o2 consumption).will happen very fast with aluminum or magnesi.glass will also crack eventually after that( hydrogen liberation)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 02, 2014, 07:23:00 PM
Here is the latest. 

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: drodenbe on October 02, 2014, 07:45:05 PM
Just found the paper I believe I mentioned a while ago on marcus reid crystal cells.  On page three, second paragraph he states he is using sodium meta silicate.  Even though they misspelled it.  He states his cells are still going after 3 years.  You have probably all seen this and know of it,  but I wanted to support the idea of the sodium meta silicate and not the sodium silicate.  Ok. Later

David
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on October 03, 2014, 08:13:53 AM
Hi David,

Thanks for the paper!

Sodium Silicate - Na2(SiO2)nO
Sodium Metasilicate (waterglass or liquid glass) - Na2SiO3
Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate (TSP/90) - Na2SiO3·5H2O

I was getting confused, but these are the correct formulas, and now I see the difference!  :)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: 4Tesla on October 04, 2014, 09:18:13 PM
I just got my meter!  I'm impressed!  Now I just need to make some new cells.  All of my cells are dead.  :( ..  but you guys give me hope!

I need to order some more materials.. hope to have some new cells soon.

4Tesla
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 06, 2014, 07:50:15 PM
The last graph looks beautiful. I will analyse it later tomorrow.


Mscoffman, yes I understand your point about load/internal resistance power line transmission and the parallel of the too. The potentiometer would do the trick BUT it will also distort all my base-lines and measurement for now. I know for a fact my cells have very high internal resistance they are in milli-watts range.


Soon I will post a video that will pull your hair out!!! You will not believe at what level I am getting into. I wish I had more money to invest in machinery and get to a much more advance level of manufacturing my cells.


Gassing in the cells will kill them if you seal them that's for sure.


Guys, this crystal cell research only will work if the cells are NOT GALVANIC. Everything else is just prolonging the decay process.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 07, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
This is a long graph of about 3 weeks non-stop running one cell casted in resin of 2cm x 2cm. Noticed that I had to merge many print outs of the screens. It is a little bit difficult to see the constant flow of the graph because the different scales as the systems runs, BUT, pay attention in each graph the total amount of samples, each sample being 1 second.


This cell is STILL on the graph which I will continue posting its progress.


The fluctuations in the middle to the end are because drastic temperature changes in the lab.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 08, 2014, 01:08:22 AM
Challenge is on:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRTVVgPKBQY&feature=youtu.be


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 10, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
It is quiet in here, where are the challenge answers? Did everybody just lost interest in crystal cells?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: NickZ on October 12, 2014, 05:43:58 PM
  It is quiet here... maybe some of us are waiting for you to show us what you have, and just how useful your cell is, that will blow us all away.

  The original purpose of making the "crystal cell" was to show how a properly made cell can function without the normal galvanic decay. This was mostly not confirmed, as most cells will corrode and break down in time, and the ones that don't, only output tiny amounts of power. So, please show us what you have that is different.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 12, 2014, 08:39:19 PM
  It is quiet here... maybe some of us are waiting for you to show us what you have, and just how useful your cell is, that will blow us all away.

  The original purpose of making the "crystal cell" was to show how a properly made cell can function without the normal galvanic decay. This was mostly not confirmed, as most cells will corrode and break down in time, and the ones that don't, only output tiny amounts of power. So, please show us what you have that is different.


Thanks, different from what? What is the base line? that's why I asked that in the video, otherwise there will always be an excuse why this does not work.


Like, it is too much little energy for the size of the plates, or it will corrode for sure in 10 years and proves nothing.


Without that .01mm and .03mm tick aluminium and copper 1"x3" size cell I will have nothing to compare against with anyone. Make sense?


To state that it is only corrosion and no one has shown anything different is useless.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: NickZ on October 13, 2014, 06:01:56 PM
  Plengo:
  As you may know, I've worked on the aluminum/carbon cells for a while.
  Some of my capacitor can cells are still working, even after a couple of years have past. Even my original cement cells. But, are they worth fooling with?  As only minimal current is obtained from them.
 
  Again, please show what you have that is different from previously made cells, and tests. As all these cells are based on a galvanic reaction. There useful life is dependent on how quickly they breakdown. The more power they output, the faster they break down. OR NOT?
   Remember why JB stopped working on Crystal Cells?

  I'm not trying to be negative, but, how can we replicate something that is not shown working to light some bulbs, and also some background on how long they might last. Thin alulminum foil, and copper sheeting, using any electrolyte?
  What is it that you are trying to show?  I don't understand...
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 13, 2014, 07:12:31 PM
... next page please
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Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
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Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
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Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 13, 2014, 07:16:11 PM
  Plengo:  As you may know, I've worked on the aluminum/carbon cells for a while.   Some of my capacitor can cells are still working, even after a couple of years have past. Even my original cement cells. But, are they worth fooling with?  As only minimal current is obtained from them.   Again, please show what you have that is different from previously made cells, and tests. As all these cells are based on a galvanic reaction. There useful life is dependent on how quickly they breakdown. The more power they output, the faster they break down. OR NOT?   Remember why JB stopped working on Crystal Cells?  I'm not trying to be negative, but, how can we replicate something that is not shown working to light some bulbs, and also some background on how long they might last. Thin alulminum foil, and copper sheeting, using any electrolyte?  What is it that you are trying to show?  I don't understand...
[/size]


Well, usefulness is in the business market. I for one love the cells and my kids loves the light in the nights. My wife hates it  ;D  .I am planning to make a flash light which is very useful.


Before I show mine, people have to have a BASELINE. My spec are very simple, plates dimensions, structure and any choice of electrolyte. With that challenge we will be able to see with EMPIRICAL evidence what we would expect as corrosion and time rate to power (people take the challenge or shut up, very simple).


I am doing just like Bedini did with his SSG. It is a very simple device, easy to build, the specs were given and the test of charge/discharge was specified. Anyone can do it and see for themselves and also compare with a general bulk of empirical data. Very simple. Just like my challenge too.


Cement cells are HUGE and I have not seen anyone opening one and looking inside. I have done years of testing with thin plates in a variety of metals to see what is corrosion, the level and what I should expect.


I can guarantee you that with metals with 0.01 mm thick they will corrode in less than a week (based on the power output of my specs) and one can see it fast, without having to wait for months like I have been.


The first hard-drive invented was the size of a brick and today they are small and fast and powerful in use. Those cells with research can be too.


Having cells running for years (which I have many) does not mean much in empirical data wise.


Now, what WE NEED is remove the subjective statements like:
- they are just corrosion
- they are useless
- they are not powerful
- we have never seen one really
- no one has shown one (Marcus Reid has shown many, including Bedini has one)
- this is 100 years old technology (but no one does it today)
- and so on.


Those subjective statements are just "chair sitting skeptical" statements to discourage anyone in this line of research. I for one must SEE WITH DATA. And so should others.


Without my challenge being made and hopefully demonstrated no one will believe in those cells EVEN IF THEY ARE IN THE MARKET IN THE FORM OF A FLASH LIGHT. People will still say "oh they will die in 10 years for sure".


Once we have this base-line I am willing to show mine too.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 13, 2014, 07:27:58 PM
I have one more interesting evidence. I have put 2 cells in the freezer until they freeze (off course) and they have a good output and the LED is lit.


One cell with an LED has an output voltage cross the LED of 2.54 volts but as soon is OUT OF THE FREEZER she goes DOWN in voltage!!!!?????!!!! No one has shown that today.


I will make a video showing that. If this is not a good evidence in the right direction, i don't know what it is.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Billynjamie on October 13, 2014, 09:01:06 PM
Look guys the crystal cell is basically a survival tool. If it lasts for a few years that is great. There is no battery you can buy that will last a few years giving enough power to give light. These types of cells are a Prepper's must have. I have many different versions of these cells operating for close to a year now. Running off John Bedini's earthlight circuit. The whole premise of these cells was to give us light in a end of times scenario. Yes we have solar. But solar won't give you light when the volcanos start popping off. So even if they are galvanic I personally know that they will last for years giving constant power. As far as I see the only other power source that can do that is nuclear. Of course nuclear is much more powerful, but still the same type of situation. I think it is totally awesome that we can make electricity with four simple things, copper magnesium water and alum. How simple. So please people give up the galvanic crap. Nothing lasts forever. And no these cells will never power your TV. That is not what these we designed for. Although these don't give massive amounts of power I can still light up most of my home at night. And believe me when your eyes adjust these are plenty bright enough to whatever you need to at night.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2014, 06:02:45 AM
I can still light up most of my home at night. And believe me when your eyes adjust these are plenty bright enough to whatever you need to at night.
;D   ;)
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 14, 2014, 12:52:19 PM
A alkaline-zinc-carb is a slow corrosion device.a alkaline-zinc-carb is expensive.they add bismuth to the zinc to slow its corrosi down.they add mercury/cadmium to the zinc to  slow the corrosi down.slow corrosi has one problem,self-discharge,especially in hot climates,speeds it up.slow corrosi also has another problem,drop in voltage over time,drop in power over time.a high-power karpen spillover cell eliminates all of the above probs in one shot..if it can be made stinking cheap.. Wanna go into buisnes plengo? I want 20percent of each one sold.I think your a honorable guy.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Billynjamie on October 14, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
When you freeze things they expand right. So that would increase the internal pressure. Hence your slight rise in voltage. My YouTube channel is under BackRoomLabs. I have replicated John Bedinis high pressure cell with a shop press and yes the more pressure the higher the voltage. I have no idea why but pressure seem to make a little higher voltage. How does the current differe from frozen to none frozen as I have never tried freezing my cells?
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 14, 2014, 11:19:26 PM
Freezing lowers internal resistance loss.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 14, 2014, 11:26:48 PM
Freezing also lowers self-discharge voltage loss
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 15, 2014, 12:00:14 AM
Freezing condenses moisture from the air
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 15, 2014, 12:20:54 AM
When you freeze things they expand right. So that would increase the internal pressure. Hence your slight rise in voltage. My YouTube channel is under BackRoomLabs. I have replicated John Bedinis high pressure cell with a shop press and yes the more pressure the higher the voltage. I have no idea why but pressure seem to make a little higher voltage. How does the current differe from frozen to none frozen as I have never tried freezing my cells?


May be it is pressure BUT i tested another 2 cells and they behave more like I expected, colder, less power output. Those 2 cells did not form the crystal well before I closed the cell.


So I have 2 exact same tests with total different results same formula different growth crystal levels.


I am puzzled myself.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Billynjamie on October 15, 2014, 12:56:28 AM
It may depend on the mix. My straight alum cells give like 30 percent more current when they are around 100 degrees sitting in the sun. But the voltage stays the same. I'm going to freeze mine tonight and see what happens to the voltage.  My other cells are far less sensitive to heat. I would like to find a way to warm the copper and cool the magnesium at the same time and see what that does.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: NickZ on October 15, 2014, 01:03:22 AM
   Fausto:
  What voltage and current readings are your cells producing on their own?
You've giving us no information, other than the charts. And also, how long do these cells last, at that level?
  Voltage may not drop much with the passing of time, but less current output may be noticed from the cells after a while.
  In order to test their break down levels, it would take some time, as most cells will work fine at first, for a couple of months, or longer, as you know.

  Any salts in the electrolyte will absorb moisture, and continue to grow the crystals. Open cells will absorb water from the air, which may be the reason that yours are not going down. But, excess water can also ruin the cell, in time.

  I've seen most of your previous videos, and I'm not an armchair critic.
 I also worked on cells for a few years. Until Bedini bailed on us. I can't blame him though, as he could not make money from his cells, and that was his main interest.
 Not mine.

   One of my previously made videos (below), there several more to see if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWjtrMKYmdo

  I think that most of us know what will happen in a short time to tin foil and copper sheeting.  Which is why I used activated carbon electrolyte, and carbon rods, which do not break down, they just contaminate. They can be reused after after a while by baking the carbon in the oven, and washing out, but they are still working three years later. Carbon is also a crystal, and an important one, at that.

  Waiting to see what you've got...
 
   
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 15, 2014, 02:05:01 AM
If any of these crystal cells have a single advantage over a common zinc-alkaline then,and only then,is it worth marketing.if one wants to market.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 15, 2014, 02:12:27 AM
I can give you guys examples of slow corrosion cells of high power that will outlast any single crystal cell on the face of the earth but they are more expensive than zinc-carbons
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 15, 2014, 05:55:02 PM
   Fausto:
  What voltage and current readings are your cells producing on their own?
You've giving us no information, other than the charts. And also, how long do these cells last, at that level?
  Voltage may not drop much with the passing of time, but less current output may be noticed from the cells after a while.
  In order to test their break down levels, it would take some time, as most cells will work fine at first, for a couple of months, or longer, as you know.

  Any salts in the electrolyte will absorb moisture, and continue to grow the crystals. Open cells will absorb water from the air, which may be the reason that yours are not going down. But, excess water can also ruin the cell, in time.

  I've seen most of your previous videos, and I'm not an armchair critic.
 I also worked on cells for a few years. Until Bedini bailed on us. I can't blame him though, as he could not make money from his cells, and that was his main interest.
 Not mine.

   One of my previously made videos (below), there several more to see if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWjtrMKYmdo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWjtrMKYmdo)

  I think that most of us know what will happen in a short time to tin foil and copper sheeting.  Which is why I used activated carbon electrolyte, and carbon rods, which do not break down, they just contaminate. They can be reused after after a while by baking the carbon in the oven, and washing out, but they are still working three years later. Carbon is also a crystal, and an important one, at that.

  Waiting to see what you've got...
 
 


Thanks NickZ, I did not call YOU an arm chair skeptical. I am calling those that do say anything without experimentation.


Concerning the months of running time I have for that single purpose tested my cells with very thin foils so that they WILL corrode in a week or 2 MAX. So I can see and measure its output and decay.


ALL my graphs are the voltage across 100 ohm resistance connected to the + and - of the cell. One can calculate its voltage, current and therefore output power with just one graph (V = I x R). Please correct me if I am wrong.


My cells that are not tested this way are connected to an LED and no resistors since at that point I already passed the month graph test and it is worthy to move it to a practical level, which is, LIGHT. So I am giving the power output to all to see.


Months of corrosion on my graphs are not possible since for example that graph I previously gave is based on a very small cell of about 1 cm x 1 cm on thin foils (although a different metal). Impossible to stand even a week.


The power output MUST after its first growing level reach a plato and only decay after that with time. Never it will reach that same plato after that again. Temperature will change the fluctuations of the graph +/- some percentage. None of my cells in 6 years has demonstrate the opposite (except for example that graph I gave) [/size]so for me theory about that is non sense .


In my empirical data adding water only temporarily provides more power at the cost of faster corrosion, so, water absorption has only being detrimental at least in my years of experimentation. So again, theories that contradict that for me are non sense.


You see, I am not a theory guy until I SEE the data. I notice that many books are bias in their honesty concerning theories and others are bluntly wrong. There are lies everywhere including the theory of evolution (sorry to hurt many people's feelings).


I am not interested in showing my formulas or how I do it for others to just "see it". I am interested in people showing their DATA and we TOGETHER can work this and then, only then, we WILL BELIEVE it.


If show all in my videos it will never satisfy anyone for the exception of a "rude show". I am not looking for money from Youtube for my videos although they send me an enormous check of $50 every 3 years  :o


We need here is sharing DATA this way I can show my logic and methodology of experimentation and how my intuition has led me and possibly can lead others and SO others lead me.


Fausto.






Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 15, 2014, 07:56:14 PM
Indeed my latest cells do like cold. They increase power with cold and lower power with heat. Which is the OPPOSITE of my older cells. Specially the ones open to air. So moisture is not the reason.


Another thing is that I tested 2 cells to extreme heat and cold and they simply do not like heat for too long and after heat up they don't like cold either. SO I literally cooked then too much and melted the crystal structure which even with more water (moister from condensing from the freezer) does not help.


One of my cells fell on the ground and show "dust" around the surface which i notice to be a bad sign (broke the crystals) and indeed this cell performs less better than her sister.


Those cells are behaving in a way that none of my other cells did. I would think the word "endothermic" ?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 15, 2014, 10:35:09 PM
Exellent plengo.that is THE way to eliminate all remaining doubts about corrosion.if you use the textbooks method of faraday's equivalency law and your result overrides it,by far,then you can safely rule out corrosion with no remaining doubts.the best way to do this is using milligram quantities of foils anodes at current draw of around 50-100 micro-ampere.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 16, 2014, 02:38:37 AM
Exellent plengo.that is THE way to eliminate all remaining doubts about corrosion.if you use the textbooks method of faraday's equivalency law and your result overrides it,by far,then you can safely rule out corrosion with no remaining doubts.the best way to do this is using milligram quantities of foils anodes at current draw of around 50-100 micro-ampere.


thanks for seeing what I see too about empirical data. I agree milligram would be wonderful. I don't have a milligram balance so for now I will have to use the foils and a rough estimate of, let's say, 30% precision. So anything should run longer by at least 50% of what calculated would be and still be pretty safe in data wise if that is accomplished.


I would say this is a fair measurement for anyone. Agree anyone?


So what would be next? I would propose to those that are willing to do this very simple experiment just get the copper which is the most difficult one but can be purchased here (http://basiccopper.com/1milcopperfoil.html) and cheap aluminum foil at the local super market. The electrolyte could be paper with vinegar or acid or anything you can imagine and use a 100 ohm resistor cross the terminals of the battery.


Measure the voltage across the resistor every so often and plot a graph by hand. The fluctuation of the graph and a 2 to 4 weeks measurement should tells us the story. Different electrolytes same process. Post the results, please.


[size=78%]Fausto.[/size]
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on October 16, 2014, 03:09:41 AM
It will take exactly the atomic weight of aluminum divide by 3 in grams for 96500colombo to dissolve. Al > Al3+ ion. accurate jewellery digiscale is fine.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: NickZ on October 16, 2014, 04:39:05 AM
  Plengo:
  If you don't want to show what you've got, but want us to chart dissolving cells, as a base line to compare to what you haven't shown yet, well, I don't share your mode of operation. 
  I recommend that you just make a video of your cells, like you've done before, and let us decide if what you have made now is of interest, or not. Some guys may take you up on your "base line" tests. But, I have other things on my plate.
  I trust and believe in what you've shown us previously, and don't need to chart decaying cells to prove the point.
                                                              NickZ
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on October 16, 2014, 05:11:45 PM
  Plengo:
  If you don't want to show what you've got, but want us to chart dissolving cells, as a base line to compare to what you haven't shown yet, well, I don't share your mode of operation. 
  I recommend that you just make a video of your cells, like you've done before, and let us decide if what you have made now is of interest, or not. Some guys may take you up on your "base line" tests. But, I have other things on my plate.
  I trust and believe in what you've shown us previously, and don't need to chart decaying cells to prove the point.
                                                              NickZ


Ok Nick here it goes:


get the following items mix them , grid them and let them dry to almost zero humitidy:
- sand
- epson salts
- rochelle salts
- activated carbon
- sodium meta silica pentahydrate
- alum


Figure whatever proportion you want for the needs that you want, very easy, just play with it until you get what you think is working the most.


Make the plates sizes, put the mix with water in between the plates and run it.


Very simple, no need for a video.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2014, 03:03:00 AM
Question to ALL:

Is it possible to have a battery with BOTH ELECTRODE METALS being the SAME METAL and produce constant output power?

For example positive is Aluminium and negative being Aluminium.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Billynjamie on November 02, 2014, 04:17:52 AM
IbPointless did some experiments on that very subject. In the very earlie days at the energeticfourm. I believe if you check his YouTube he still has the vids on his channel. Nothing outstanding but he has a few vids and some posts about it on the bedini crystal battery thread. It would probably take a while to find those posts though.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on November 02, 2014, 09:19:41 AM
Yes its very possible to use two same electrodes in both a galvanic setup and also catalytic spillover setup.in the galvanic setup one aluminum piece is less exposed to oxidizer(air) than the other aluminum piece.in another situation one aluminum piece is attacked more quicker than the other due to porosity and surface area leading to massive eddy current hysterisis giving a galvanic potential.with nonreactive electrodes (eg.platinum) you can get spillover effect from different exposure to air or h2.spillover effect does not consume inert catalyst electrode material
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on November 02, 2014, 10:20:24 AM
Aluminum-aluminum in hcl.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2014, 04:17:01 PM
Yes its very possible to use two same electrodes in both a galvanic setup and also catalytic spillover setup.in the galvanic setup one aluminum piece is less exposed to oxidizer(air) than the other aluminum piece.in another situation one aluminum piece is attacked more quicker than the other due to porosity and surface area leading to massive eddy current hysterisis giving a galvanic potential.with nonreactive electrodes (eg.platinum) you can get spillover effect from different exposure to air or h2.spillover effect does not consume inert catalyst electrode material


Thanks for the helpful answer.


So and either case explained above I SHOULD expect either REDOX or GALVANIC result?


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: profitis on November 02, 2014, 08:36:42 PM
Correct yes.either spillover current or corrosion current
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Billynjamie on January 19, 2015, 08:09:12 AM
Plengo this is BackRoom Labs from YouTube. I have posted here before. In about three weeks I'll be back into this scene. I plan on experimenting with sliver nitrate for the redox effect. I'm sure you have seen John Bedinis 1 amp flooded cell. At first I thought the blue was from copper sulfate after much research I found it has almost no effect. But the only other thing that would turn blue in contact with copper is silver nitrate.  Although silver nitrate in contact with magnesium and small amounts of water is extremely exothermic. But when in a lot of water it seems to be ok hench JB's flooded cell. Have you given this any thought? But that's where I'm heading.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: plengo on January 19, 2015, 04:55:16 PM
Plengo this is BackRoom Labs from YouTube. I have posted here before. In about three weeks I'll be back into this scene. I plan on experimenting with sliver nitrate for the redox effect. I'm sure you have seen John Bedinis 1 amp flooded cell. At first I thought the blue was from copper sulfate after much research I found it has almost no effect. But the only other thing that would turn blue in contact with copper is silver nitrate.  Although silver nitrate in contact with magnesium and small amounts of water is extremely exothermic. But when in a lot of water it seems to be ok hench JB's flooded cell. Have you given this any thought? But that's where I'm heading.


Bily,


 I was thinking about this "blue" thing LAST NIGHT. My cells that are working extremely well (one example is the series of graphs I presented earlier) has this "blue" color and it is NOT copper sulfate or derivatives. I know because the color is not the same, at least in my "monkey" ways.


I have been quiet for a few weeks now because I want to make sure my next data set is indeed worthy to show and validate my thoughts.


One think that I am becoming very convinced is that the cell indeed NEEDS to dry up and form a very hard rock like structure and only then it will use water as a fuel. I am getting really close to replicate it. Unfortunately it took 3 months to get this cell ready, bummer.


Please, try with your idea and share it. I think you are onto something.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Crystal Cell Research
Post by: Peter Kasaj on March 24, 2016, 08:31:48 AM
ultra-battery-one    kilogram  weight-decades  of  driving-without  charging Weight  reduction-  no  engine,  gearbox,  no  fuel,  oil,  just  car  body  and  el.  motors  .Did  you  know  that scientist  made  battery  (picture  in  middle)  from  uranium?  And  did  you  know  that  7g  of  uranium  is powering  3  millions  of  houses  a  day?And  did  you  know  that  scientist  made  most  powerful  non  nuclear energy  material  by  pressing  XeF2  by  100000  atmospheres,  which  is  near  of  uranium  on  power  basis?  My idea  is  to  replace  XeF2  instead  of  uranium,  and  keep  the  princip  how  the  energy  is  converting  to electricity  flow.  Imagine  one  kilo  of  this  battery  and  car  is  running  for  decades,  also  could  be  used  in homes  energy  supply  etc.  Is  the  most  powerful  portable  non-nuclear  energy  storage  ever,  The  battery  is made  of  Xenon  difluoride  (XeF2),  a  white  crystal  that’s  been  placed  in  a  diamond  anvil  cell.  Pressure  is able  to  reach  a  million  atmospheres  and  when  this  happens,  3D  metallic  networks  structures  are  formed. The  formation  causes  compression  and  stores  its  power  as  chemical  energy,  generating  a  huge  amount  of it.  Is  the  most  condensed  form  of  energy  storage  outside  of  nuclear  energy  .We’ll  see  this  technology  used in  super-oxidizing  materials  that  can  destroy  chemical  and  biological  agents,  not  to  mention  new  fuels and,  most  obviously,  an  energy  storage  device,superconductors.I  personally  giving  to  this  battery promised  future  or  the  idea  which  will  press  materials  and  use  their  energy  from  their  deformed  structures ,like  personal  electricity  plant,its  possible  to  regulate  battery  power  as  newly  created  nuclear  battery  in picture  below,which  works.Nuclear  battery  works  like  this:when  high-energy  beta  radiation  passes through  the  platinum  and  the  nanoporous  titanium  dioxide,  electron-hole  pairs  are  produced  within  the titanium  dioxide,  creating  an  electron  flow  and  a  resultant  electric  current.The  ionic  solution  is  not  easily frozen  at  very  low  temperatures  and  could  work  in  a  wide  variety  of  applications  including  car  batteries and,  if  packaged  properly,  perhaps  spacecraft."radiation  can  be  converted  into  electricity.So  much  so,  that the  water-based  nuclear  battery  may  well  offer  a  viable  alternative  to  the  solar  cell  as  a  sustainable,  lowpollution  energy  source.This  principe  could  by  transformed  also  for  XeF2  and  we  can  regulate  that power.Comparing  to  uranium-Before  being  used  to  produce  electricity,  Uranium  is  extracted  and  then transformed  into  cylindrical  7g  blocks,  which  will  then  be  grouped  together  into  tubes  that  will  in  turn  be assembled  into  clusters  and  then  installed  in  nuclear  reactors.  Uranium  is  the  most  energetic  material known  on  earth:  a  7g  block  of  enriched  uranium  provides  as  much  energy  as  1  tonne  of  petrol  or  1.5 tonnes  of  coal.  A  power  station  supplying  a  city  of  3  million  inhabitants  only  uses  3  kilos  of  Uranium  a day.So  one  small  battery  with  7grams  of  XeF2  calculating  with  almost  or  i    the  same  specification  as uranium  will  replace  one  ton  of  petrol?50  kilos  of  petrol  each  fueling  ,so  it  is  one  ton  1000/50=20  fueling times  of  car(around  700km  per  fuel  tank  x20  =14  000  km  per  one  small  battery(I  do  14  000  km  per  year and  I  spent  for  fuel  1200  euro  minimum  a  year)  so  if  one  kilo  battery  (1000gram  /7  g=  142  years  of driving)if  even  half  energy  of  uranium,we  can  still  drive  71  years,I  couldnt  find    information  how  much power  is  truly  from  pressed  FeX2  if  is  comparable  to  nuclear  energy  as  scientist  says  than  we  can  have product  like  battery  as  we  now    today  almost  everlasting  for  everyone.  Safety-must  be  made  lots  of  car crashes  scenarios  to  keep  passengers  protected(car  falling  to  water,  burning  contacts,  possible  battery damage  etc)and  how  to  switch  battery  off  safely  and  quickly.  If  regulated  and  covered  properly,  safety will exceed current safety standards.