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Author Topic: Crystal Cell Research  (Read 169376 times)

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #225 on: September 27, 2014, 09:41:37 PM »
The sodium meta silicate is not like the sodium silicate.  It is not the same and doesn't react the same!!!!  I have use the sodium silicate and have had similar results with the cells as every one else.  I never saw the improvement until the sodium meta silicate.

That is very interesting.. I'll have to give it a try.  I have checked and they do have a slightly different molecular formula.  8)

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #225 on: September 27, 2014, 09:41:37 PM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #226 on: September 27, 2014, 09:42:33 PM »
The sodium meta silicate is not like the sodium silicate.  It is not the same and doesn't react the same!!!! 


Yes, that is correct. I was saying glass water for those that are using it. This element will hold some of the water in its molecular level and it is very good at that. Very important, BUT it cannot release it via other chemical reactions.


Fausto.

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #227 on: September 27, 2014, 09:50:56 PM »
This is what I mean by curves and spikes. First picture shows the flow of the cell constantly (after days and days and days....) going up and down. No corrosion at all. The long waves (notice the bottom of the graph showing samples - each is a second, so 20000 is 20 thousand seconds). Those waves are days and nights oriented. Very cool.


The second graph is a part of the first picture zoomed in. Notice the green spikes on top of the blue??? Some of my graphs those spikes are substantial, others are not there, this one is ok in size BUT this means that the cell's vibration and water release and retention is small, meaning very little to no gas release.


Large amounts of gas release will show high and aggressive spikes. Most of my cells have that on the first weeks then they cool off until a point like this graph. This shows me the maturity of the cell growth and its possible potential. Also tells me about is FUTURE internal resistance.


This cell , just based on that graph, shows me that she will run for a long, long, long, but longggggggg time.

Third picture is how to setup the measuring process of the cell. Very simple. One 100 ohm resistor and the meter. Simple.



Fausto.

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #227 on: September 27, 2014, 09:50:56 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #228 on: September 27, 2014, 09:51:16 PM »
Semi-correct plengo.the only way to know is to the chemistry of the cell, thoroughly.most of the time you won't even see the puncture,It'l crack at the tiniest weakspot and it can take months to do this.pomodoro(in one of his more positive moods)did show in the beginning of experimentation on the karpen thread what happens between 2 inert electrodes under nitrogen..you get a current..a small one..due to electrolysis.. This can happen in a crystal cell that has totaly,and I mean totaly passivated electrode surfaces,and which has consumed all remaining o2 gas that was trapped inside prior to passivation.it is theoreticaly possible to get a cyclic electrolysis-recombination cycle going under right circumstances.

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #229 on: September 27, 2014, 09:58:08 PM »
cyclic electrolysis-recombination cycle going under right circumstances.[/size]


Yes baby, yes. That is the secret.

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #229 on: September 27, 2014, 09:58:08 PM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #230 on: September 27, 2014, 10:01:21 PM »
Can one explain the difference between oxide and corrosion?  I thought they were the same.

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #231 on: September 27, 2014, 10:07:43 PM »
Can one explain the difference between oxide and corrosion?  I thought they were the same.


Sure, they are the same BUT in the context of the cell, that redox cannot continue, it must be only in the beginning. Simple.



Now, you answer me, please? Can we have one plate oxidizing and the other not while ions are flowing in the electrolyte?

Fausto.

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #231 on: September 27, 2014, 10:07:43 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #232 on: September 27, 2014, 10:10:18 PM »
Lol plengo maybe you know more than I thought you know.what electrode material are you using in your latest if I may ask or is it a secret.  @ tesla oxide formation is corrosion.wether the corrosion halts at the first nanometers of oxide layer or cracks further though and cakes the whole mass is strictly determined by the chemistry of electrodes and electrolyte ie: aluminum is extremely reactive and will slowly cake allll way through.iron is less reactive and will corrode only a few nanometer then abrubtly halt,in alkali.in neutral ph iron will cake all way through,or up to a point(depends on how well sealed container is)

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #233 on: September 27, 2014, 10:13:35 PM »

Sure, they are the same BUT in the context of the cell, that redox cannot continue, it must be only in the beginning. Simple.



Now, you answer me, please? Can we have one plate oxidizing and the other not while ions are flowing in the electrolyte?

Fausto.

Thanks!  That is beyond me.  :)

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #233 on: September 27, 2014, 10:13:35 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #234 on: September 27, 2014, 10:15:44 PM »
Lol plengo maybe you know more than I thought you know.what electrode material are you using in your latest if I may ask or is it a secret.  @ tesla oxide formation is corrosion.wether the corrosion halts at the first nanometers of oxide layer or cracks further though and cakes the whole mass is strictly determined by the chemistry of electrodes and electrolyte ie: aluminum is extremely reactive and will slowly cake allll way through.iron is less reactive and will corrode only a few nanometer then abrubtly halt,in alkali.in neutral ph iron will cake all way through


no, not a secret. It is some form (for now - testing, testing, testing) of galvanized metal, mixture of Zinc and carbon and many things including Molibidenio (very hard material).


Aluminum is great for testing, as you said, it will continue corroding. Once a friend, expert in chemistry, brought to my house a container of pure aluminum and then he touch it with an element and voilá, the aluminum started to grow intensively like a tree, it was fast and beautiful. I wish to know what was the other element (may be mercury?).


That day I realized that rocks and metals are not that solid as one would think and they are very "driely" reactive. Imagine a controlled reaction like that in a crystal cell BUT really controlled?


Fausto.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #235 on: September 27, 2014, 10:35:31 PM »
@All,

I have a comment on the tsp thing.  tsp => TriSodium Phosphate. You should
look up TriSodium Phosphate and Sodium Meta Silicate on wikipedia.org Both
are used as industrial cleaners using mechanical and akaline chemistry to
remove grease.

=> Here's the thing; old style TSP contains phosphate and has been descheduled because that
creates environmental problems. So Manufactures are substituting compound mixtures in
place of real TSP to try to get equivalent cleaning power. They are free to make these mixtures
whatever from they like.  These could contain;  sodium carbonate (washing soda), sodium meta
silicate (water glass),  and zeolites.  The non-hydrated form of sodium meta silicate is acid/base
neutral while the hydrated form is apparently highly alkaline. So if you are interested in
"repeatability" I would pick one primary company like "Ace" or "Red Devil" and stick with them. If
you are trying to do reagent (chemically pure) repeatability one needs to be careful about what one
is adding and to make that clear in any documentation. I would assume that manufactures are
only listing the primary ingreadiant on their on product list.  Some manufactures use linear
programming to build what is currently the cheapest mix of materials.

---

Hyrdration means adding OH molecules from water to certain chemical molecules in a
mechanical way, I tend to think of it as further corrosion of the chemical, but it's actually a way
for additional water to move through a chemical cell. I think it uses coordinated bonding
(mechanical) not electronic bonding so you can often add  (or subtract) multiple occurances
of OH when there is sufficient water around.  Nine x OH's makes Sodium Meta Silcate
Nonohydrate  or same Nonohydroxide.

---

Question:
Could someone clarify in this  JT schematic, whether L1 and L2 inductors are wound on the
same or different inductor ferrite cores? So is there one torroid with four windings, or is there
more then one device?

---

Question:
Would the metal Magnesium form a thick Magnesium Oxide coating electrolytically
in Borax solution electrolyte like the Aluminium Oxide formed one there?

---

Thank you; users drodebbe and plengo. This has clarified a lot.


:S:MarkSCoffman

 

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #235 on: September 27, 2014, 10:35:31 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #236 on: September 27, 2014, 10:36:33 PM »
I see you instinctively are headed in right direction plengo there is a definite lust to electrostatochemicaly equilibrize between any different electrodes.dry  aluminum normaly has a tight oxide layer that inhibits corrosion in dry air but if you throw mercury on it it breaks that oxide skin,amalgamates,then catalyses further combustion caking yes.I did this classic experiment many times in earlier times twas fun.

Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #237 on: September 27, 2014, 10:47:51 PM »
magnesium or aluminum are way too reactive markscoffman.they are so reactive that aluminum caps with borax in them will even corrode through eventualy but extremely slowly(years).the washing powders of today use  sodium silicate for dual purpose alkaline dirt lifting power and lowers corrosion rate of aluminum washing machines

Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #238 on: September 27, 2014, 10:56:34 PM »
Titanium is one example of an extremely reactive metal that forms such a tight passive layer in alkaline sol that it doesn't even register a potential close to its standard potential

Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #239 on: September 27, 2014, 11:17:25 PM »
in regards to the joule thief coil.  I am currently using a transformer out of a tv set with a dual winding on an E core.  Both coils are the same in the circuit.  How ever I also the other day wound a joule thief coil of 60 turns and 20 turns on my crystal cell with no core and used another joule thief coil wound on a 1 inch torrid and it worked just as well.  Still got increased charging of crystal cell running the circuit.  The crystal cell I wound the coil on was a 3.5 inch pvc pipe 3.5 inches tall.  So I was surprised to see it also worked with this circuit.  The frequency will be different but it still works but have better results with the core.  When I get a way to do it I will get a picture out to you.  FYI  I have had one of my cells running the JT circuit and the voltage is still rising.  The LED is bright and the voltage is 1.198 volts started at 1.122 volts this morning. 

I will post the graphs in a little while. 

Fausto:

I hooked up the circuit as you said and I started at no load, 1.26 volts and when I hooked up the 100 ohm resister the voltage started to fall to about .820 volts and is now rising to .836 volts and still going up slowly.  I will let run for a couple hours and then post a graph.  Then tomorrow I will post a second graph. 

David

 

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