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Author Topic: Crystal Cell Research  (Read 159363 times)

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #300 on: September 30, 2014, 11:27:44 PM »
Thank you both for the input on the meter!  I think I'll get one.. very cool for $20!

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #300 on: September 30, 2014, 11:27:44 PM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #301 on: September 30, 2014, 11:57:52 PM »
Fausto: 

        Thanks a lot for your explanation of how you test your cells.  Wow that is a lot of work.  So one other thing.  How do you pore your two plate cells.  Do you have a mold, you put them in,  pore them, then remove?  I have been wanting to figure out something quick and dirty so as to save material and make it easier to tear down and inspect.

David


In my last video in the end, you can see I am holding one plate with paper cut out in two sections. The paper is less than 1 mm thick. I mix my compound with enough water to make it consistent like ketchup, then I pour it on each cut out sections. Gravity distribute it automatically making it a nice flat area.


With that technique I use about 1/8 tsp of mixed compound per cell making it very cheap to create. I wait it to dry until crystal structure starts shinning on top, must step, and then I stack the cells together and a few more complicated things that I am still solving to make it very repeatable.


In your case you could to exactly the same. You don't need lots of electrolyte in between the cells, actually, too much of it makes the internal resistance of the cell too high.


Another thing which is important to ALL understand about this cells and actually any AA, AAA, C, D cells.


The internal resistance of those cells (including ours) is not very consistent making it difficult to put them in parallel. Why? because if one internal resistance is different than the next one in parallel, that cell will FEED the next cell which defeat the purpose of putting them together. This is one of the reasons you don't see electronic devices using many batteries in parallel. If one needs more CURRENT they buy a BIGGER battery.


Our cells will have and have the same problem, specially with our non industrialized manufacturing process. Making our cells also with larger plates will not cut the problem either, since it will need perfect thickness throughout the whole cell.


Once we industrialize this we will be able to create much larger cells that produces more current.


I am really interested in trying the aluminum oxide technique you create, that is unique to you David, kudos to you.


Another point, keep making ALL your cells for now with the exact same sizes so that you can develop a sense of base-line as time passes. If you make other cell sizes just take their data more like experiments really.


I used to make cells without documenting the process and every time a GREAT CELL worked I was bummed of not having it documented.


Fausto.

Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #302 on: October 01, 2014, 02:38:50 AM »
Fausto:

Thanks for the info:  Just about an hour ago I had my program lock up on me and it said it needed to shut down.  This was on my latest test cell.  So I lost the long term graph. I have the graphs up to that point.  So what to do?  I am going to work on the smaller cells.  Because in the past month I have gone through around 10 lbs of sodium meta silicate and about 4 lbs of cement.  So I am not going to produce any supper cells for a while.  Would like to see what results you all get if you make the multi plate cell as per diagram.  The cell is still at .918 volts and holding.  Not sure if I should restart the graph or not.  What do you think? 

I tried a little some thing different to day, just because.  I had some MnO2 from a dry cell I tore down and I mixed a little of this up in a past with distilled water and coated both the treated aluminum and the treated copper with a thin layer and let dry.  I then mixed the cement and sodium meta silicate with the sodium hydroxide solution and pored a cell and did the same procedure with the battery while it was setting.  only got .789 volts out of it after it set but the current is higher.  I hooked up my joule thief and the voltage hardly dropped at all.  I think this may protect the plates from corrosion.  Not sure but wanted to set one up and see how the aluminum is after a month.  Just something to do.  May stumble on to something some day.  You know the saying..... even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.  I think I might be turning into a monkey scientist.  Ha! Ha!.  Sorry!  I won't take your degree from you.  Fausto.  You have earned it! 

David

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #302 on: October 01, 2014, 02:38:50 AM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #303 on: October 01, 2014, 06:18:21 AM »
I bought the 2200039 version of the RadioShack 46-Range.  I got this version because I know it uses a 9v battery and not AAs.. I also bought a 9v AC adapter to use instead of battery.  Can't wait to try out.  Best bang for the buck for a DMM that connects to PC!

http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200039_PM_EN.pdf

I also have a Fluke 87, which I love, but can't connect to PC.

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #304 on: October 01, 2014, 06:39:50 AM »
Fausto:

Thanks for the info:  Just about an hour ago I had my program lock up on me and it said it needed to shut down.  This was on my latest test cell.  So I lost the long term graph. I have the graphs up to that point.  So what to do?  I am going to work on the smaller cells.  Because in the past month I have gone through around 10 lbs of sodium meta silicate and about 4 lbs of cement.  So I am not going to produce any supper cells for a while.  Would like to see what results you all get if you make the multi plate cell as per diagram.  The cell is still at .918 volts and holding.  Not sure if I should restart the graph or not.  What do you think? 

I tried a little some thing different to day, just because.  I had some MnO2 from a dry cell I tore down and I mixed a little of this up in a past with distilled water and coated both the treated aluminum and the treated copper with a thin layer and let dry.  I then mixed the cement and sodium meta silicate with the sodium hydroxide solution and pored a cell and did the same procedure with the battery while it was setting.  only got .789 volts out of it after it set but the current is higher.  I hooked up my joule thief and the voltage hardly dropped at all.  I think this may protect the plates from corrosion.  Not sure but wanted to set one up and see how the aluminum is after a month.  Just something to do.  May stumble on to something some day.  You know the saying..... even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.  I think I might be turning into a monkey scientist.  Ha! Ha!.  Sorry!  I won't take your degree from you.  Fausto.  You have earned it! 

David


Create a new graph. We know already what it was by the pics you posted. The point is not to have a perfect record but a bulk record so feel the trend. I also keep taking screen-pics of the graphs as time passes since the meter battery dies (ironic) and/or the graph buffer becomes full.


4 lbs???!!! owww, that is a lot. Make them smaller for sure. Mine are 1" x 3" only each little cell and usually I put 10 of those to form one running LED cell. So it takes very little of material, specially the compound.


I tried with MnO2 and it does help because it will absorb the Hydrogen BUT it is very toxic. I am totally running away from it and from Iron Pyrite because Pyrite with water will become sulfuric acid. Many mines in the past had this problem.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #304 on: October 01, 2014, 06:39:50 AM »
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Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #305 on: October 01, 2014, 08:26:52 AM »
I am totally running away from it and from Iron Pyrite because Pyrite with water will become sulfuric acid. Many mines in the past had this problem.

That is good to know about Pyrite.  I didn't know that.  Thanks!

Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #306 on: October 01, 2014, 06:28:02 PM »
Good Day every one!  Just came back from a run to Menard's Lumber co.  You know!  First of month. Got paid!  Could not get the TSP-90 at ace hardware.  Was out.  I did back order 4 lbs of it though.  I found at Menard's a TSP substitute and this is what it is called.  Found it in the paint section.  4lbs for 9.00 and some odd change.  They looked up msds sheet and it is sodium meta silicate and some other additive.  I bought some anyway to see if it is better, worse, or the same.  They probably added some inert ingredient so they could put there name on it.  May be not! Will see how it works.  I am making a few cells today.  I did find some aluminum conduit 3/4 inch couplings with two screws attached on both ends.  Got a bag for 3.90 something.  Will use 1/2 inch copper pipe and so I won't be using much compound.  Will let you know how the new stuff works.  I noticed the particles are much finer and look like small crystals.  The TSP-90 is much courser and don't even look like a crystal.  These look like they were grown that way.  I will be posting the graph of the first multi plate cell later today.  Want to let it run for a while on graph.  It has leveled out at 0.961 volts.  Not bad!  May be, may be not!

David   

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #306 on: October 01, 2014, 06:28:02 PM »
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Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #307 on: October 02, 2014, 12:04:05 AM »
Fausto:  Latest graph since I restarted. 

I have made a new cell from the new compound called TSP Substitute by Sunnyside.  Purchased at Menards. For a little over 9.00 for 4lbs.  So far I can see no difference.  I just made a cell from the 3/4 inch aluminum conduit coupling and a 2'' copper 1/2 inch pipe.  I did not even treat the aluminum or the copper just wanted to see if it was close to my first cell I ever did when I first used this stuff and I am getting 1.05 volts  unloaded and 70ma dead short.  I am going to buy this from now on.  I don't have to special order it.  It is also a finer crystal.  The crystals look like very very very small quarts crystal points if you know what I am talking about.  The TSP 90 from ace looks like just granules such as sand.  So let me know what you think, every one!

David

Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #308 on: October 02, 2014, 12:51:27 AM »
It is me again!  Just checked my converted ups 12 volt battery.  Now a crystal cell.  Filled with the sodium meta silicate almost 2 months ago and I checked it and it is at 12.40 volts.  I tried to measure the current.  Big mistake!  I am getting over 10 amps because my meter went over range and started to melt the leads!  I know Bedini's converted alum battery was some where around 11 volts I think.  I know I did one and that is what I was getting.  Don't think I was getting this kind of amps though!  May be wrong.  Too far back to remember.  It does charge on the charger just fine.  I have a charger with a microprocessor and It cycles the battery up and down.  Neat to watch on logging meter!  Well Just thought you might be interested if you want to try this new stuff in a motor cycle battery.  Next project.  I am looking for something like this to run my 3 phase pulse motors I build.  Sort of like a 3 phase Bedini/cole window motor but 3 phase and my own design.  Will share diagram on another forum if you want it.  I think I already did some time ago,  somewhere!  I think!  Ok.  Later.

David

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #308 on: October 02, 2014, 12:51:27 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #309 on: October 02, 2014, 12:54:40 AM »
plengo,

You need to think about determining the internal impedance of your batteries or you could be missing out
on some important information you should be taking during each experiment. The problem is that your 100 Ohm
resistor will only allow 10ma to flow for each volt of your battery. Using chemistry is going to limit your cell
voltage to between .5->3. VDC. Note that at 3vdc you are dissipating only 90mW. Because of the chemistry voltage
limit, you'll need to maximize current to find cells that can produce higher powers. This is why internal impedance
is critical.  You'll never end up seeing what you could get if you don't do impedance matching. You need for your external
resistor to match the internal cell impedance for you to have maximum power transfer. You should consider having
a wire wound potentiometer so you can measure volt x amps at a number of different resistance settings. Compute
these wattages and pick the maximum wattage. The potentiometer setting at max wattage equals your cell's current
internal impedance. Ultimately you may want to have your computer or a microcontroller do this for you.

---

I think the Conservation of energy law says as you dissipate at higher powers some macroscopic aspect of the battery must
change or you would be violating CoE. You just want the developments to have a power uptrend not necessarily acid/lead type
net power capability.


:S:MarkSCoffman
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 05:32:40 AM by mscoffman »

Offline profitis

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #310 on: October 02, 2014, 01:31:53 AM »
The best way to rule out galvanic corrosion : seal the whole thing in a minimal-size glass bulb,just 2 naked(metallic copper) wires emerging and watch the power ratings over the next few days/weeks.if power drops then its corrosion (o2 consumption).will happen very fast with aluminum or magnesi.glass will also crack eventually after that( hydrogen liberation)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #310 on: October 02, 2014, 01:31:53 AM »
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Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #311 on: October 02, 2014, 07:23:00 PM »
Here is the latest. 

David

Offline drodenbe

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #312 on: October 02, 2014, 07:45:05 PM »
Just found the paper I believe I mentioned a while ago on marcus reid crystal cells.  On page three, second paragraph he states he is using sodium meta silicate.  Even though they misspelled it.  He states his cells are still going after 3 years.  You have probably all seen this and know of it,  but I wanted to support the idea of the sodium meta silicate and not the sodium silicate.  Ok. Later

David

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #313 on: October 03, 2014, 08:13:53 AM »
Hi David,

Thanks for the paper!

Sodium Silicate - Na2(SiO2)nO
Sodium Metasilicate (waterglass or liquid glass) - Na2SiO3
Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate (TSP/90) - Na2SiO3ยท5H2O

I was getting confused, but these are the correct formulas, and now I see the difference!  :)

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Crystal Cell Research
« Reply #314 on: October 04, 2014, 09:18:13 PM »
I just got my meter!  I'm impressed!  Now I just need to make some new cells.  All of my cells are dead.  :( ..  but you guys give me hope!

I need to order some more materials.. hope to have some new cells soon.

4Tesla

 

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