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Antigravity => Lifters => Topic started by: Sojourner on April 02, 2005, 05:44:33 AM

Title: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 02, 2005, 05:44:33 AM
Wow! Nice forum look!

Is anyone here done any work in lifter-technology-assisted aircraft? I am in the process of building one, but I would like to get some ideas for the best way to make a super-lightweight power supply.

I had seen some 1 Farad aerogel capacitors somewhere for sale for a dollar apiece and wondered if they would be better than batteries. They certainly would be lighter.

Also, I was thinking of a W-C multiplier set-up in lieu of a flyback. Can anyone tell me the pros/cons they have experienced with such things?

Thanks  :)

SOj
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: PaulLowrance on April 02, 2005, 07:48:51 AM
Yes.  I had great old fun building one.  They?re amazing!  I used an old TV which works great.  The bigger the TV the more voltage.  I had a somewhat small TV and I?d say it put out at least 30KV.  Be careful what ever you do!  They put out a lot of current for the voltage and can kill you in a heart beat!  That?s the only drawback, but I think the lifters require some good current.  Maybe a VanDergraph generator would work  Probably not enough current though.

Paul
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 02, 2005, 12:33:17 PM
I have several lifters. My planned one is autonomously powered and remote controlled. Finding a suitable inky-binky power supply though is difficult.

I HAVE one that I built from a schematic I got off the internet that uses batteries and a flyback, and it ALSO has two adjustable pots but unfortunatley I was sloppy in my work and it didn't work.

I bought the proper stuff this time for it to make a pc board for it, but, alas, I cannot find the schematic anywhere, even on the internet!

Soj
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: PaulLowrance on April 02, 2005, 04:14:55 PM
Do you have an idea how much weight it can lift?

Paul
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 02, 2005, 10:33:03 PM
The lifter? I have no idea how much payload it can take dead-on loaded, because there will be multiple non-powered technologies involved that will be used and the weight of the power/remote control system will play a large part of the size issue here.. The planned actual weight of the lifter itself  even with the power suppply will be negligable. It will barely stay grounded.

For a vertical take-off though, I doubt more than a few grams of payload unless it is countered with reverse ballasting. Then again, with angular take-off, who knows!

=)

Soj
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: cmichaelcouch on April 09, 2005, 04:24:03 AM
Soj:

Are you talking about a plane with a lifter driving it?  Or a normal lifter?

My pet idea which no one has tried yet and I'm not ready to try yet, is to figure a way to use the crystal shock HV like in the Charcoal fire starters.  I've read that they generate 9000V.

Michael Couch

Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 09, 2005, 10:59:26 PM
As far as winged craft:

I have considered that for a while now and plan to make one, but I also want to make it with vertical take-off,  I'm doing experiments now to test enhancing the ion propulsion and incorporating it with normal airlift.

Thinking of a design though that looked nice and could do both is the hard part, LOL I want something that when people see it take off, they go, "Holy S$%$%!!!!!"

I also want to try to get a speed faster than 3.5 mph. It seems no matter WHAT I build on whatever way, my speed can't go faster than that.  My 'guess' on this is the voltage.  I need a higher potential and get the anode futher from the cathode to take advantage of the intertia.

As far as quartz:

From what I understand, they take a tremedous amount of shock to create power. Think of the pressure it takes to push down and 'click' a charcoal starter or even a piezo lighter. It really slams hard!. I would think doing the slamming part would be hard.

The burst only last billiseconds too. Then there is the weight of the crystals to consider unless you utilize other technology to counterballast.

Soj
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: raburgeson on April 17, 2005, 02:21:44 AM
Maybe we can mix technologies , I hear gyros can lighten loads. I have a problem with stability and it may help.
Think you are right about the voltage I remember reading T T brown was going to produce a large disk I
believe it was 10 foot and 100kv if I'm wrong it would be 300kv. Think it was in the book "In Search of
Zero Point Energy". I read so much anymore I can"t be sure exactly were it came from for sure. If you haven't
read this book yet your in for a treat. Have you tried setting the skirts about 22.5 Degrees to create side thrust?
Hex shape  should work for this idea well.Tried to help with coil subject.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: iceweller on April 17, 2005, 01:35:49 PM
  Are you referring to "The Hunt for zero point" by Nick Cook or "Quest for zero point energy" by Moray B King? The book by Nick Cook (Janes) is nothing special and simply creates more confusion (which is what I believe it was published for).
  Maybe, you should take a look at "Occult Ether Physics" by William Lyne.

   Regards
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 18, 2005, 02:24:39 PM
Maybe we can mix technologies , I hear gyros can lighten loads. I have a problem with stability and it may help.
Think you are right about the voltage I remember reading T T brown was going to produce a large disk I
believe it was 10 foot and 100kv if I'm wrong it would be 300kv. Think it was in the book "In Search of
Zero Point Energy". I read so much anymore I can"t be sure exactly were it came from for sure. If you haven't
read this book yet your in for a treat. Have you tried setting the skirts about 22.5 Degrees to create side thrust?
Hex shape  should work for this idea well.Tried to help with coil subject.

I will be using multiple technologies. My model craft will be hollow and will use helium to counter the weight of the craft and the power sources. The wingspan is guestimated at about ten feet wide. I'll be narrowing that down as soon as I am satisfied with the power plant and get its total weight. .......along with (maybe) a camera.

I'm right int he middle of moving tot another town, so many of my projects are on hold right now.


SOj

Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: rlm555339 on April 18, 2005, 02:57:50 PM

I will be using multiple technologies. My model craft will be hollow and will use helium to counter the weight of the craft and the power sources.
SOj




This is way out of my field of knowledge so keep that in mind when you read......
If you used light weight tubing (like that found in TV antennae)  and filled it with helium, would there be enough volume to displace the weight of the tubing?  You might end up with a craft that never comes down.   ;D
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Sojourner on April 20, 2005, 11:08:43 AM
A cubic foot of helium will lift about 28.2 grams of weight. The tricky part fo me is making a sleek craft with the highest manueverability possible. We don't want it to be merely a glorified blimp.

Unfortunately I am in the middle of relocating to another town and am in the midst of all sorts of stuff and these projects are on hold for a while.

Soj


I will be using multiple technologies. My model craft will be hollow and will use helium to counter the weight of the craft and the power sources.
SOj




This is way out of my field of knowledge so keep that in mind when you read......
If you used light weight tubing (like that found in TV antennae)  and filled it with helium, would there be enough volume to displace the weight of the tubing?  You might end up with a craft that never comes down.   ;D
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: raburgeson on May 06, 2005, 10:02:30 PM
That sounds great , I was thinking of a nonarerodynamic shape with
three square pods set in a triangular arrangement, with the pod and
power on a plane below those in the center. That way the wieght
would stabilize the craft. Center of gravity would be low and the rider
would be below the reaction between the cathode and anode. I
really have hopes of turning a generator first before I think about
that type of thing though.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Doctor No on February 10, 2009, 11:01:32 PM
Maybe we can mix technologies , I hear gyros can lighten loads. I have a problem with stability and it may help.
Think you are right about the voltage I remember reading T T brown was going to produce a large disk I
believe it was 10 foot and 100kv if I'm wrong it would be 300kv. Think it was in the book "In Search of
Zero Point Energy". I read so much anymore I can"t be sure exactly were it came from for sure. If you haven't
read this book yet your in for a treat. Have you tried setting the skirts about 22.5 Degrees to create side thrust?
Hex shape  should work for this idea well.Tried to help with coil subject.

Have You tried with an ice? (to put thin sheet of ice around main "engine")
Later You can try to freeze it with gas.
For serious effects, you will probably have to put all in a fridge with opened down hatch. 8)

Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: TinselKoala on February 11, 2009, 01:32:33 AM
Ha ha, old thread, but OK, even here I have some input.
If you want more thrust and lifting capacity from your standard "lifter", use pinking shears to serrate the bottom edges of the foil skirts. Make several passes with the shears, overlapping the point spacing, so you get a bunch of little points pointing down from the bottom edge of the foil. Your current draw will go up some, but the lifter will perform better and will lift more load.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Like that.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 04, 2009, 05:30:02 AM
hey Sojourner, are you the same Sojourner from the old lifters group, I use to research with everybody about 10 years ago or so.

How's everything going?

Jerry
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Cloxxki on July 04, 2009, 12:06:26 PM
Has it been tried to have the "helium balloon" type of counterweight that doubles as power source? Could a light-than-air balloon type structure store charges, as in a battery? It being gas, capacity is bound to be fractional, but then, the weight on earth is zero, so your get a lot for a little. Just hot air is too temperature dependable.
Balloons inside other balloon might allow for interesting form of (electrostatic?) insulation? Seems cool to charge a balloon rather than to just heat or fill it.
Mythbusters had a lead sheet helium balloon, so even metalic (coated) balloons are not unthinkable. Volume is everything. But why use that volume only for lighter-than-air application, is could perhaps be a battery!
Next step would be for the balloon to not only heat from solar power, but also charge, which can in turn power another lifter technology. Would be interesting to keep the whole craft heavier-than-air, but still use the structural integrity, surface and volume of the balloon.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Paul-R on July 04, 2009, 01:17:13 PM
Wow! Nice forum look!

Is anyone here done any work in lifter-technology-assisted aircraft?

Yes. Northrop Grummann.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6875095/Electrogravitics-Systemspdf

Paul-R.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 04, 2009, 05:23:45 PM
If you want to see the company that is making solid state material for top secret flying vehicles of the next generation then keep your eyes on the companies that manufacture large quantities of Aerogel. specifically the more exotic types of Aerogels made from Carbon Nano-tubes which are in the birth stages of developements.

I am not telling you which companies do this but just what to look for.
it is the rigid bodies that are lighter than air but stronger than diamond are the properties that are required to make dreams come true in space vehicle technology.

give it some nick name like: An~gel(Aero) Foam or even Angel(Aero) Hair (Aero)gel. do you see the strangeness. could it be (((Aero)Nitride)~Gel)

Also, just keep an eye out for large investments in the Aerogel industries both past and future.

Good Luck.
Jerry ;)
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Cloxxki on July 04, 2009, 05:32:29 PM
I've been looking into aerogels with reasonable weight and still significant structural integrity, but came up with little. Let alone lighter than air. If an aerogel is made that works on par with a soft metal or wood per volume unit, then interesting things could be made, for sure.
For now I mostly see applications in insulation, covers, furnature.

If there are specific grades of aerogel appropriate for high-tech building, I'd be most interested. Just something that is compression resistant (to fill up a hollow beam) would already be mayor. Some hollow carbon structures get foam inserted, aerogel would be the next level. Perhaps outside shells for crafts could be coated aerogels. Thin steel plating goes a long way though.
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 05, 2009, 05:28:23 AM
The Next Generation Spaceship would be made entirely or 99.999% out of Aerogel including new generation circuitry and panels. the Tritium Power Generator would also be made of Aerogel with different properties.

did you know that if you had a house made entirely of Aerogel you could heat your entire house with one single candle! Amazing!

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: New lifter design in progress
Post by: Cloxxki on July 05, 2009, 11:57:02 AM
Yes, I'm aware of the alien-like insulation properties that can be attained. Just unaware of any aerogels with usable structural integrity.
The aerogel house would need to be kept in place well though, as it could double as a balloon with the slightest of breezes.

I suppose having a lightweight craft is useful in most coditions, except one : mid-air collisions. Hitting a regulation sized duck upon launch or re-entry would send you quite a ways adrift...
I'd love to be able to go somewhere to handle a collection of aerogels. Hard to start designing an application for them when it's all just wiki pages and low resulotion lab pictures.