# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 01:39:45 AM

Title: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 01:39:45 AM
I did an experiment today that seems to have created a super simple FE principle effect.

I won't go into all the detail of why I thought the experiment should work, but I will give a super quick outline.
Einstein in his 1905 paper on SR spent much of it showing that magnetic fields are just a relativistic distortion of electric fields and that the expected forces can be arrived at without and magnetic field.
Furthermore I found (I don't know if it is considered conventional) that if you double the velocity of a moving charge you quadruple the forces that occur from it, but when I did the math/logic on it I found that did not mean some of the things I would have thought. (doubling the drift velocity in a coil but keeping the same ampere turns would not increase the magnetic forces)

Anyway EM induction is also readily explained by purely electrical effects, as the electrons are accelerated their electric fields are bent similar to moving a hose side to side. This creates a bend in the electric field that is consistent with the inductive field we find around a wire.

THE EXPERIMENT

If you have a thin wire and a thick wire carrying an equal current it is accepted that the drift velocity in the thin wire will be higher than that of the thick wire, similar to what occurs when a thick and thin pipe in series carries water.

So I made a coil consisting of 2 equal lengths of the thickest and thinnest wire I had and connected in series with a hairpin bend forming a series bucking bifilar, there is an equal number of CW and CCW ampere turns causing Ampere to predict no magnetic field.
But what of the inductive field?  Turns out that due to the steeper acceleration in the thin wire it's inductive influence is greater!

I connected this coil up to a signal generator and connected a regular air core coil to an oscilloscope, and there is a signal!
The non inductive coil creates an inductive field!

But could it be some capacitive coupling between the 2 coils?
No, orienting the non inductive coil to right angles relative to the pickup coil removes the magnetic coupling and the signal despite keeping capacitive coupling if it had been the cause.

So it is inductive!

But could the input be making it more through just one of the series connected coils than the other? (it is perhaps 30 turns of each)
Well I could lower the frequency to just 1.5khz and it still worked (lower than this given the weak input and poor coupling is improbable to work).
Also the signal is input to the thin wire and the thick is the ground, so it is not as if the signal is reflecting at the join as it might if connected the other way and reflected of an increased resistance.

Now this coil might create a net inductive field, but it would very unlikely to be induced!

This gives us a likely way of making a transformer where the primary can induce the secondary, but the secondary has no impact on the primary.

The experiment is faster to try than to explain!

This is apparently a FE effect as there is no likely way for the secondary to have any effect on the primary.
This could lead to a very simple OU device that can power it's self and produce usable power.

Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: TinselKoala on October 08, 2012, 03:16:36 AM
Can you make another two hairpin bifilar non-inductive coils, but using the same wire thicknesses? That is, make one with the thick wire throughout, and one with the thin wire throughout, using the same geometry as your test coil.

Then test all three coils by the same method you report above. Is there a great difference in your experimental coil, from the other two?
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 04:00:22 AM
Good idea!

I tried a coil with all thin wire, but have not tried nor do I currently intend to test the thick/thick currently.
The bucking bifilar coil made of all thin wire did not seem to have any magnetic coupling, though there were points of frequency where there was something this appeared distinctly in sharp resonant frequencies indicating it was working in just one halves of the coil.

Sometimes it induced a frequency when I turned the oscilloscope frequency up, but that didn't go away when I reoriented the coil, clearly it was capacitive.

No promises, but so far it looks to be a genuine effect.

My next test will be to increase the current and reduce the frequency because that would rule out any faint possibility of one half of the coil having greater current.

I will also continue to test the non-inductive symmetrical thin thin coil.

Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: penno64 on October 08, 2012, 05:33:21 AM
Hi Aether,

You have my interest.

Sounds so much like Jack's tranformers.

Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 05:34:42 AM
I tried putting the 2 bifilar coils in series, one which is thin and think, the other one is thin-thin.

I picked a different air core coil to use as the pickup coil, I then held the pickup coil near the 2 series connected bucking bifilars.

The result was that again there was a very noticeable and obvious definitively magnetic induction field that required correct orientation around the asymmetric one, and no field that could be seen on the same scope settings around the other one.

This coil is definitively demonstrating magnetic inductance and if it were due to some capacitive or HF based effect it should have shown up around both coils.

The most certain test would be to input the maximum current I can into the thin coil at a low frequency, I may use an autotransformer and try connecting it to the grid.

But I encourage others to jump in and try this, the water is warm!

Penno64, please inform me about that the transformer you speak of. thx
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: penno64 on October 08, 2012, 05:59:23 AM
Hi,

This is one -

http://www.overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out/ (http://www.overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out/)

He also has another -

http://www.overunity.com/12759/simple-three-core-transformer-shows-moderate-cop/ (http://www.overunity.com/12759/simple-three-core-transformer-shows-moderate-cop/)
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: Jack Noskills on October 08, 2012, 10:22:47 AM
I want to propose a test I read from energetic forum given by some poster:

Take four pieces of same wire of equal length and ferrite rod. Wind solenoid coil CW, then on top of this another solenoid CCW. Connect these together from the same ends. Then wind series caduceous coil as a pick up. Feed CW CCW coil pair and check what happens in pick up.

Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 11:10:26 AM
I have conducted more tests, one involved a separate thick and thin coil in series, there did not appear to be a greater inductive effect from the thin coil although the result is far from disproving anything.

I also connected the thin-thin coil in series with the asymmetric thick-thin coil, then probed these with a pickup coil (different one to last time) and sure enough the inductive field around the asymmetrical coil was very clear, but there was nothing around the symmetrical thin thin coil when I probed that, clearly this again removes thought that it has to do with unequal currents in the 2 halves of the coil.

I then rewound the thick-thin coil to be more uniform, but the effect remained and I compared it with an inductive coil in series and it compared quite well!

So 2 tests that confirmed it, and one that questioned it.
On the subject of making this practical, it would not likely be that effective since I don't believe the non-inductive coil would have a magnetic field, so a high circulating current could be provided by placing the coil in an LC tank circuit and being an air core it would like a high frequency.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: TinselKoala on October 08, 2012, 03:07:16 PM
Hmm... here's a thought. Doesn't the inductance of a wire depend on some degree to the wire's cross-section? So with the mixed bifilar hairpin you have two wires the same length whose inductances would "cancel" if the two wires were the same inductance, but since they are different diameters they are also of different inductances if the length is the same.
For example, using an online inductance calculator, I compared the inductance of two coils of copper wire, AWG10 and AWG40, 20 turns on 5 cm radius.
http://aetechron.com/Inductance_of_Wire_Loop_Home.shtml
The inductance of the smaller wire is double that of the larger wire, for the same geometry.

So perhaps you are getting imperfect cancellation due to the difference in inductances of the hairpin halves. You could try winding a coil with the "middle" of the hairpin not at the 50-50 position but at the 25-75 or 20-80 position, with the thinner wire the shorter length.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: poynt99 on October 08, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
You beat me to it TK.

Precisely.

The two wires must be considered to be two coupled inductors, and since the inductance of a straight wire is determined by its diameter (and cross-sectional shape), there will most certainly be an imbalance in the thin/thick scenario.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 08, 2012, 06:42:38 PM
Hi. You might be onto something here.

Look what I have found recently:

and some hints from Romero:

Quote
the coil must be built in the 8 figure to get the results I am talking about.I was suggesting air core for simplicity but using ferrite will show much better results.
While you build the coil you will start to understand why the figure of 8 is different than 2 independent coils.

Unusual effects in coils can be found in: where few turns at the begining are wound in one direction then most of the coil in oposite direction then at the end we switch direction again with the same number of turns used to start the coil.
EX: CW 30 turns, CCW 300 turns, CW 30 turns
This type of coil can be used in solid state configuration too.
This is just an example but coils can be made to have self amplification or self power effect but that is not to be discussed now.
If someone can view and separate the electric field from the magnetic field then you can build coils that will manifest no lenz.

Anyway, happy experimenting!

Regards,
Romero
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 11:43:26 PM
I had the thought that if the inductance is not cancelled by having equal lengths of both wires, then an unequal length could result in zero net inductance, but a net number of turns in one direction.

Now I could be mistaken, but I am of the impression that if you have a net number of turns in one direction, then you can induce a voltage into such a coil.
BUT, if it does not create an inductive field of it's own (on an air-core) then you could essentially pull infinite power from such a coil, although it is possible that the thick and thin would only cancel an a given current level, this would require a given current level to be OU.

At any rate this does seem to be getting more and more interesting.
So I will attempt to make a think/thin coil with zero inductive field now.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 08, 2012, 11:52:49 PM
I realize that for this to actually mean anything, then the ability for a coil to create an inductive field must become detached with it's ability to respond to an inductive field.

So I tried putting the thick-thin coil this time as the pickup coil, and powered a normal coil with my function generator, my hope is that the ability to respond to an inductive field is not effected by wire gauge, but that it's ability to generate is.
The result?  A slight induction, but possibly just to the extent the coil is imperfect.

I then tried connecting the coil differently, so that the 2 windings were in parallel, the resulting induction was almost 6 times higher than when they were in series.
Next I checked the thick and thin coil separately and I found that there is a little more voltage induced into the thick coil.

Sooooo.

We have the thin coil which according to the online calculator and hence accepted equations should create a stronger inductive field for the same number of ampere turns.
And then when it comes to responding to the inductive field it is either a stalemate or a victory to the thick coil.

This means we can...
Create a thick/thin coil of an (approximately?) equal number of turns that is able to be used to generate an inductive field, but which is unable to have any net voltage induced in it.
And we can make a thick/thin coil of an unequal number of turns that is able to have a voltage induced into it, but is unable to create an inductive field (on an air core anyway).

And finally we could make a complex coil producing negative impedance where one section could create an inductive field that it can't feel, and another part could be induced by it without any ability to create an inductive field.

This is looking very interesting!

Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 09, 2012, 01:34:55 AM
It seems abundantly clear to me, that at least if we are looking at a coil that is initially not carrying any current, and we look at the classic case of flux threading a coil, then there is a given voltage induced per turn and the thickness of the wire is not in any way going to change the induced voltage.

My experiments and every source I can find back this up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_linkage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_linkage), the voltage induced into a coil is not in any way effected be the thickness of the wire forming the coil.[/size]
Provided of course that we don't alter the amount of flux the coil intercepts.

So the thin coil DOES create a more intense inductive field according to accepted calculations, experiments.
But will NOT have a higher voltage induced into it.

This means in addition to other conclusions above, if we keep the same number of turns but use a thicker wire for a secondary coil of a transformer or generator, not having the drift speed it will be challenged to create as much loading at least on an air core.

Also if we use a primary of a thin wire, it will create a greater inductive field.

And again that ideal primary and secondary coils could be made that could induce or absorb energy without any apparent reflection on anything.

Pinch me, no don't.

Addition: I wonder if the calculator TK mentioned, simply used the wire gauge to estimate how effectively the flux of each wire was coupling to the other wires, so a coil made of a thinner gauge would have a greater self inductance, but not when the wires are still spaced as in my coil.
[size=78%]So I changed it to a 1 turn coil, but changing the gauge still had an impact, but is that maybe a fault of the calculator?[/size]
That is the problem with using/writing a calculator or equation
you don't fully understand.

Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: FatBird on October 09, 2012, 03:34:05 AM
Aether22,

Please post a Schematic or Wiring Diagram.  A Photo would be Great too.

Thank you.

.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 09, 2012, 04:43:19 AM
Image as requested.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: Neo-X on October 09, 2012, 06:40:36 AM
U forgot something.. If you use thinner coil with high current, this would result in an increase resistance.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 09, 2012, 07:11:22 AM
Not forgotten, just not critical, indeed in theory you could use superconductive wire.
Since both coils are in series in most tests, but that may explain the high voltage out of the thicker wire.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: Neo-X on October 09, 2012, 07:38:24 AM
Imho there is a trade off here. Current is the amount of electrons passing in 1 second. If you use thick and thin wire with the same length connected in series, the electron passing in thin wire might increase in speed but it will reduce the density of electrons flow in the wire. On the other hand the electrons on thick wire is slow but has a higher density. So the total amount of current and ofcourse magnetic field is equal that will result in zero mutual induction.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: aether22 on October 09, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
Yes, but if you double the electron velocity (keeping the same density for a moment), do you get double or quadruple the effects from the moving charge?
I went through some logic that would say it is quadruple, but when you consider the static protons and such the magnetic force would stay the same at an equivalent ampere turns, but the inductive field I had reason to believe is different.

It is worth noting that it has been proven that rotating a magnet on it's longitudinal voltage axis increases the radial voltage (homopolar generator), which is the same as Hooper's motional E-field, if the magnet were an electromagnet that would require that the increase was consistent with quadrupling when you double the velocity because the protons create a magnetic field also.

So if the number of electrons moving halves but the velocity with which they move doubles that could still result in a doubling of the force they create.

Anyway arguing the theory isn't going to get us anywhere, it is worth noting that so far online calculators do predict a different value despite the same ampere turns, even with a single turn, are they wrong?

So I have results from 2 coils that create an inductive field, but I made another one that for some unknown reason didn't give the same results, Not yet sure why. Maybe it disproves the effect, or there may be another reason, I have done way too little testing on it yet.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: Neo-X on October 09, 2012, 10:21:48 AM
First of all im not arguing in you infact i believe on your theory. Increasing the velocity of electrons has a exponential impact on the zero point energy but its hard to prove using your experiment because using thin wire with high current just only to increase the velocity will only  reduce the overall efficiency of the circuit. Theres a simple way to increase the velocity, its by using high voltage. Electrons is like a water in a pipe. If u increase the pressure on the water, the velocity of water flow is increased. If u read the documentation of patric kelly of free energy devices in chapter 3 don smith device, it was said that increasing voltage on the primary has a exponential increase in power gain on the secondary. I would suggest you to read that docu. Its very informative and it will help u alot in building ou devices.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: norman6538 on October 12, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Has anyone tested this two different wire coil stuff? I hope to get to that today or tomorrow.
Like he says - its a simple test.
Norman
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: crazycut06 on October 13, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
Hi aether22,
Have you tried using same inductance of thin/thick wires instead of same length, as TK mentioned some post back, maybe because of unequal inductances thats why you get induction?
Regards
Cc
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: Magnethos on October 13, 2012, 05:42:56 PM
Imho there is a trade off here. Current is the amount of electrons passing in 1 second. If you use thick and thin wire with the same length connected in series, the electron passing in thin wire might increase in speed but it will reduce the density of electrons flow in the wire. On the other hand the electrons on thick wire is slow but has a higher density. So the total amount of current and ofcourse magnetic field is equal that will result in zero mutual induction.
It's only an oppinion, but I think you're correct if you see that example while using conductive current because this power has 2 components: amperes and electrons.
I say you this because I remember I read somewhere about a Tesla's experiment with pancake coils where he used 1 thin wire and 1 thick wire. The result was an increase of about 10 times in the electric field. But I think Tesla did that using capacitive current.
Title: Re: Simple Free Energy Effect Discovered
Post by: norman6538 on October 13, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
I made the two sized wire coil with first layer 60 turns on a nail with the large wire clockwise away  and 60 turns of the small wire counter clockwise away
and when powered the nail attracts a paperclip.  So I do not see the canceling magnetic
field.
A compass test shows that the large wire dominates because the compass shows
the same polarity when the large wire is powered and both coils powered. And
the small wire powered make the opposite compass deflection.

I wish someone would get the proper results and report that instead of this.
If we had a no Lenz generator we'd have plenty of cheap electricity. There are no Lenz
patents but nothing I know of in production.

Norman