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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2334941 times)

IMIGHTKNOW

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4710 on: March 16, 2023, 03:15:58 AM »
Quote from Patent 1902 30376 Spain

"In summary: in the machine that it is requested to have a privilege, the excitatory
magnets are constructed as those in the current machines, and in the number,
size and desired arrangement. The core consists of a group of as many
electromagnets as those of the excitatory side, and the wires in the excitatory
electromagnets and core electromagnets disposed in series or parallel or as
required for the excitatory current, whose aim is to convert them in powerful
magnets and to create the magnetic fields which are formed between the poles
of each excitatory electromagnet and its corresponding electromagnet in the
core. Both, exciter electromagnets as those in the core, which are also exciters,
are terminated by expansions of iron or steel, placing face to face these
expansions and disposing them in such a way that in front of a pole of a name
there is placed a pole of opposite name. The core is composed of motionless
electromagnets around shaft, and nor those magnets neither the exciter ones
rotate. The induced circuit formed by wires coiled in a drum type configuration
rotates around its axis, inside the magnetic fields, accompanied by a collector
and a pulley, so that any motor may put them into movement.

As copper is diamagnetic, the force required to rotate the induced coils will be
very small, even taking into account the friction of brushes, air resistance,
bearings, and higher or lower attracting electric currents, so that, a relatively
weak electric motor, powered by either an independent current, or by a portion
of the total current produced by the machine can be used to put the induced
circuit into quick rotation movement.

As you were saying Mr Cadman.

So yes the device looked like the egg of Columbus apparently. And as you can read the secondary wires rotated not the magnetic fields as stated from someone.

The earlier 1908 patent did rotate but he might have transitioned to stationary not sure, that lead to the 1908 patent with the inducing and generating coils completely stationary with just his controller rotating. This housed the brush or group of brushes and the commutator.

Cadman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4711 on: March 16, 2023, 01:55:55 PM »
Ah, I see.

You are talking about the patents 30376 & 77 for his rotating generator. Completely different machine. Everyone else is discussing the patents for the non-rotating generator, which if I recall correctly was the only one that was attested by an independent engineer with an actual working device. But maybe I have that backwards in my mind.

It’s been a long time but I think member Bajac was the only one who seriously tried to duplicate the rotating generator. I can’t say whether he ever had any success with it or not.

BTW, do you know which patent was sold to the bankers?



kolbacict

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4713 on: March 16, 2023, 03:06:54 PM »
I said I'll take the engine apart, so I'll take it apart.
The rotor windings are flat and do not have an iron yoke.
And six very powerful (cobalt-samarium?) magnets on the top cover.
Collector and brushes placed under the rotor windings .
The rotor is a couple of millimeters thick!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 05:17:38 PM by kolbacict »

IMIGHTKNOW

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4714 on: March 16, 2023, 04:57:20 PM »
Quote; "Completely different machine"

  I don't think so and I think everyone has it wrong. Why would Figuera build a non moving generator then switch to a rotating for two patents then switch back to non- moving again. He did not and the entire series was a drum secondary that rotated but the two groups of patents were worded slightly different to appear as different.

The only non-moving patent is the 1908 patent with opposing electromagnets which in my mind of years of combing these threads on line that everyone has them misunderstood but just a few which are no loner on this forum.

Why would you ask such a silly question as it was quite obvious as to the sale of his 1902 series of patents to the banker. Any other silly questions as i do need a good chuckle now and then lol!
 
Please excuse my openness  kolbacict but what do you plan on doing with that motor?

kolbacict

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4715 on: March 16, 2023, 05:45:45 PM »


 
Please excuse my openness  kolbacict but what do you plan on doing with that motor?
It just surprised me with very low revs and good torque.
I wanted to see what it had inside. :)

Cadman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4716 on: March 16, 2023, 06:16:58 PM »
Quote; "Completely different machine"

  I don't think so and I think everyone has it wrong. Why would Figuera build a non moving generator then switch to a rotating for two patents then switch back to non- moving again. He did not and the entire series was a drum secondary that rotated but the two groups of patents were worded slightly different to appear as different.

The only non-moving patent is the 1908 patent with opposing electromagnets which in my mind of years of combing these threads on line that everyone has them misunderstood but just a few which are no loner on this forum.

Why would you ask such a silly question as it was quite obvious as to the sale of his 1902 series of patents to the banker. Any other silly questions as i do need a good chuckle now and then lol!
 
...

Academic Curiosity.

I can only go by what the original researcher discovered about these patents. There were patents for both versions in 1902, all 4 granted within a few days of each other so I have doubts the numbers have any significance other than the order the patent clerks handled them.

https://alpoma.net/tecob/?page_id=8258
This is the original place I read about the invention and the sale notice. It doesn’t provide any indication other than the translated word, patent, is singular. I’ve never seen any evidence that the bankers bought all of 4 of the 1902 patents, although they may have as you say. Is there any actual evidence one way or the other? If they only bought the rotating version it might explain why all future patents for Buforn were for the motionless generators and lend credence to the 1902 rotating version.

Lacking any real evidence it’s all supposition for sure.

BTW, glad you were amused.


kolbacict

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4717 on: March 16, 2023, 06:42:18 PM »
For me, the only thing that remains incomprehensible is the purpose of a thick wire wound with a snake around permanent magnets.  Shown with a red arrow.
The ends are brought out, but not connected anywhere (not used).

bistander

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4718 on: March 16, 2023, 06:58:07 PM »
I have a similar motor with such a wire. I believe it is a series field coil used to strengthen the field during current inrush preventing armature reaction demagnetization of permanent magnets.
bi

IMIGHTKNOW

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4719 on: March 16, 2023, 09:46:29 PM »
It makes no sense to keep a patent when you sell it to another meaning they have all rights to that patent and any such slight variant of said patent. So that leads me to believe the 1802 patents were sold to the bankers which they all rotated. But unbeknownst to the bankers he had already figured out how to make it stationary instilling the same attributes of a standard rotating generator in a nonmoving scenario.

I am just curious, what does that motor have to do with the Figuera device? Is it part of a build?.


stivep

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4720 on: March 17, 2023, 01:31:11 AM »
For me, the only thing that remains incomprehensible is the purpose of a thick wire wound with a snake around permanent magnets.  Shown with a red arrow.
The ends are brought out, but not connected anywhere (not used).
speed measurement or speed/torque control with DC, like in magnetic amplifier.

Quote
The Magnetic Amplifier. The purpose of the magnetic amplifier is to amplify a.c. signals in order to make them suitable to drive a motor (servo motors, etc.) or to actuate a relay
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/magnetic-amplifier
Wesley

IMIGHTKNOW

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4721 on: March 17, 2023, 04:39:58 AM »
The link you posted has a mistake in the first paragraph
Quote; "As the DC level in the control coil is increased, the average value of magnetic flux within the core increases towards the saturation level thus limiting the variation of the magnetic field and reducing the AC output."

This is incorrect. Without the DC winding the AC running through the transformer has high inductive reactance (Impedance) so the current through the winding is very low. As DC is applied to the control winding it slowly saturate the core nullifying a portion of the AC reactance thus allowing more current to flow. At full on DC control winding the AC winding will have almost zero Inductive reactance (Impedance) thus full AC current is able to pass. I studied old school stage lighting and military controls that's why I know.

This inductive reactance is the same as the controller in the Figuera device by the way.

bboj

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4722 on: March 17, 2023, 06:40:40 AM »
This inductive reactance is the same as the controller in the Figuera device by the way.
Would you mind explaining in detail?

IMIGHTKNOW

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4723 on: March 17, 2023, 04:03:26 PM »
Certain people that are no longer on this site had it right. Clemente Figuera used inductive reactance to control the current through both sets of electromagnets.
If you want real in depth details i cam PM you.

floodrod

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #4724 on: March 18, 2023, 02:45:08 AM »
I think his Patent 44267 (year 1908) is very much what the PDF Egg of Columbus explains.  Not the tesla physical spinning egg- but the PDF attached.

He uses 2 driver coils and 1 pickup per set.   The pickup is between the 2 drivers. It is wired in a way where he is adjusting the power of the electromagnetic fields so they are varying and not the same.  One driver is always stronger than the other. Or one electromagnet is filling while the other is emptying.

"it can be said that electrodes N and S works simultaneously and in opposite way because while the first ones are filling up with current, the seconds are emptying and while repeating this effect continuously and orderly a constant variation of the magnetic fields within which is placed the induced circuit can be maintained, without any more complications than the turning of a brush or group of brushes that move circularly around the cylinder “G” powered by the action of a small electrical motor."

https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/patents/patent-44267-year-1908/

Edit-  I re-did the graphic with a proposed commutator design.

It seems from the patent the coils always pulse the same polarity from a DC source.  It would be possible to use alternating DC but the commutator would be much more complicated. I Bolded the part above where it is suggestive Alternating DC can be (and probably should be) used.

 I am pretty sure it could be done electronically with mosfets instead of a commutator. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 06:36:02 AM by floodrod »