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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2334629 times)

NoyPi

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3285 on: March 15, 2016, 04:48:53 PM »
Guys after all the thinking, C.F. device is similar to Muller Dynamo.. IMHO..  ;D
I wonder what RomeroUK would say...

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3286 on: March 15, 2016, 07:08:44 PM »
Not even close NoyPi, if you were to study both set ups they are in dif league.


Here is something to ponder on.

hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3287 on: March 15, 2016, 09:31:13 PM »
This last weekend I also tested with NS polarity using the driving signals from the two diodes. The induction was really poor, just 0.7 volts for a load of 12 ohms. Surprisingly the frequency of the output signal was doubled, instead of output at 50 Hz, output was at 100 Hz..¿??? I guess the induction of each electromagnet was mainly working in a different sense and I was just watching some residual current due to some imbalance in the two sets device.

Summary: much better induction with likes poles confronted (see results in a previous post: 12.9 volts)  than opposite poles (0.7 volts) using the two unphased signals creates with the two diodes in the inducers.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 11:46:06 PM by hanon »

NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3288 on: March 16, 2016, 07:24:01 AM »
Hanon:

What is the shape of your cores that you have not shown?

The only way you can obtain these results is by making small diameter long primary core and large diameter and short in length secondary. This is not indicated in the 1908 design. With NN polarity this core structure will capture all the dissipating magnetism and with NS the magnetism will become weak. You are not showing the core structure here..Please let me know what is the core structure.

This is again not going to be as efficient as a large primary small secondary NS pole configuration. Both I and Saeed have the same results. Marathonman who is so kind enough to call us both blind himself had to concede that the quadfilar wire is capable of saturating the core. Since the Figuera long pole type requires a lot of iron I'm shifting to the Cater Hubbard design which I have learnt to built. Principles are common any way.

oscar

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3289 on: March 16, 2016, 08:26:32 AM »
Hi hanon,
thanks for your reply and the additional information, but I do not understand your statement:
... I think that is not only the frequency  but beating Lenz out of the system.
The law of induction as discovered by Farady dictates that double the frequency will cause double the output.
Do you agree?
What makes you think that double the frequency won't lead to double the output straight away? Or to put it as a joke: "Why don't you speed up the commutator?"

What exactly is the problem you anticipate, regarding Lenz's rule or the Lenz  force?
In my understanding the Lenz effect (magnetic field of the induced opposing the one of the inducer) results in an opposing MECHANICAL force. A force opposing the MOVEMENT or rotation in electroMECHANICAL generators / dynamos / alternators, making it hard to turn these types of machines.
But in your setup there are no moving parts and in Figuera's setup only the commutator is moving. And in your and Figuera's setup the necessary mechanical force to keep the electromagnets from vibrating - as they will attract and repell each other -  is provided by the fixed positioning of the coils. So what problem does the Lenz force cause, in your oppinion? Can you be more specific?

And another question, if you allow: Why is the frequency of our electricity grids 50 or 60 Hz? Why not a higher or lower frequency? Do you have an opinion on this question?

Dear hanon, I hope to give you my answers to these questions and how they relate to the Figuera riddle. But maybe you can answers me first.
;-)

NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3290 on: March 16, 2016, 09:00:38 AM »
Oscar:

I think the Lenz law effect is present in motionless systems in the form of backemf.

Earlier in a solenoid I had a quadfilar primary and a single wire secondary. Both are 4 sq mm. 220 volts and 50 Hz. The quadfilar consumed 220 volts and 15 amps. The secondary produced 300 volts and 10 amps on load. The solenoid was iron core.

I can use a Neon lamp in the primary and use a fast charging and discharging RUN capacitor in series and slow charging and discharging capacitor in parallel along with high ohm resistor in series. Neon lamp is a spark plug and so will increase the frequency. Please provide the ratings for the capacitor in series and capacitors in parallel. I can test the device and find out in practical experiment what is the value of frequency and whether the Lenz effect is there or not.

High frequency is said to heat up the Iron core and so the core will have to be much bigger than at lower Hertz.

Low frequency may not be as efficient as high frequency for the same reasons you provide and Low frequency at 8 to 10 Hz can also resonate with Earths magnetic field and can cause health problems as well. A high voltage line carrying 50 or 60 Hz is said to cause cancers to people living near the line and constructing buildings are prohibited near high voltage power lines for this reason.

Aircraft are said to use 400 Hz but beyond that the wires and the iron core are said to heat up. But I really do not know the answer to this question and I can test and find out high frequency has on input and output. I do practical experiments and then find out and do not accept theoretical statements from any one.

It is possible that high frequency can cause the core to heat up very much and so much larger core may be needed. In so far as the rotary device is concerned if we increase the number of contacts to 100 then for one Revolution per second we have 50 Hz output or for 60 RPM we will have 50 Hz and by increasing the number of contact points or by increasing the Revolutions or by increasing both we can increase the frequency. It is not difficult to do. A spark plug cum resistor in series and a capacitor  in series and in parallel combination can do it much more easily.

Please provide the capacitor values and let me test and tell you the results.  Thank you. I do not accept theoretical statements and test and find out.

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3291 on: March 16, 2016, 05:51:39 PM »
 Quote; "had to concede that the quadfilar wire is capable of saturating the core".

Sorry to spoil your parade but i Never said that as any one know with enough currant it will saturate a core.
also the statement about 7 hz being dangerous....you need a little more study in that area as this is incorrect.
also your statement about 400 hz is incorrect as some planes use up to 2800 hz again you need a little more research in that area as the use of high frequency allows for reduced size transformers.

Quote; "I think the Lenz law effect is present in motionless systems in the form of back emf".

This is absolutely correct as the declining electromagnet puts energy back into the system in the rotating part G of his system as i was so informed. see Figuera did not side step  lenz's law he counted on it to feed energy back into the system in the form of stored magnetic energy in part G from each electromagnet in the declining phase. as each electromagnet declines it feeds energy back into the system to replace only the losses though heat and wire loss which is very little.
the use of diodes will not let the system feed energy back into the system it block it.


MM

ignacio

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3292 on: March 16, 2016, 05:57:19 PM »
Bueno, a ver si me se explicar:
La electricidad viaja, en un solo sentido, (hay o no hay). ¡!!La ca sigue la electricidad, viajando en una sola dirección!!! Solo que, en un momento, viaja en una, y luego viaja, en la otra dirección. El problema es la que llamamos “negativa”, (al igual, el frió no existe, solo existe la disminución de calor, o disminución de vibraciones)
>>“todos” los aparatos de esa generación, que dan sobre unidad, se basan, en que se alimentan los (electroimanes) inductores, con una señal de corriente, en un único sentido, (ya que la c. alterna, va en ambos sentido, se ha de separar, cada dirección, para cada modulo (modulo = 2 electroimanes 1 inducida) (no electroimán de cada modulo).
>>Si usamos dos electroimanes, mientras uno atrae (con electricidad en una dirección) la inducida, la otra esta al mínimo, luego el electroimán opuesto (con la misma dirección de electricidad) atraerá la inducida, (eso debe estar claro). Así se evita, que haya que esperar la orientación del núcleo, produciendo calor, en él (cocinas de inducción).
>> Según el voltaje que usemos para alimentar: tenemos que con 12v 4amp =48watt, con 48v solo 1amp =48watt y si con 110volt 0.436amp = watt
Según el amperaje, solo pongo el de 110volt a 3amp =330watt ) con un reóstato se puede regular, subir y bajar el amperaje (yo con dos vasos de agua)
>>Viendo unos dibujos antiguos, que tenia guardados, donde se resalta la diferencia de la onda de C. F. y la semi-onda de corriente alterna (usando solo una dirección de la corriente) se puede observar, que la onda de C. F. es bastante más eficiente, que la semi-onda de ca.
Pongo el dibujo. Que sea más eficiente, no quiere decir, que no funcione con la semi-onda.
Well, see if I explain:
Electricity travels in one sense (to be or no to be?). !AC The electricity traveling in one direction! at one point he travels in one direction, and then travels in the other direction. The problem is what we call "negative" (as the cold does not exist, there is only the reduction of heat, or decreased vibration )
>> "All" these devices of this generation, which give over unity, they are based on the (electromagnets) feed inductors with a current signal, in one direction, (since AC, It goes both ways, They must be separated, each direction, in each module (1 induced electromagnets = 2) (not electromagnet of each module).
>> If we use two electromagnets, while one you attract (with electricity in one direction) induced, the other, this the minimum, then the opposite (same address electricity) induced attract electromagnet (it should be clear). This prevents, it will have to wait the orientation of the core, generates heat, it (induction cookers).
>> According to the voltage we use to power: we have with 12v 4amp = 48w;; 1 amp 48v =48watt; and if with 0.436amp 110volt = 48watt
Depending on the amperage, just put the one to 3amp 110volt = 330watt ) with a rheostat can be adjusted, raise and lower the amperage (I with electrodes on two glasses of water)
>> Viewing some old drawings, which had saved, where the difference wave CF is highlighted and the half-wave of alternating current (using only one direction of flow) it can be seen that the wave of CF is much more efficient, that the half wave of ca.
I put the drawing. Make it more efficient, does not mean not work with the semi-wave.
I hope I explained
 :'( :P :'(

ignacio

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3293 on: March 16, 2016, 07:23:28 PM »
Soy persona rural, agraria, sin cultura científica, un burro.
Soy un charlatán.
I am a rural, agrarian person without scientific culture, a donkey.
I'm a charlatan.

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3294 on: March 16, 2016, 09:46:34 PM »
It has nothing to do with half wave at all. Figuera's devise is using DC so there is no phase BS to deal with. he simply takes one electromagnet up as one is taken down to compensate for the loss of one very strong AC wave plain and simple because the declining electromagnet is still adding to the gaining electromagnet in the form of feeding the system. if your intelligence  can't handle that well i can't help that as that is your demon not mine.
just because you made it work doesn't mean it is efficient as it can be, yes you have it working but not Figuera style. you still haven't included ANY research to back it up just conjecture so i guess we are equal in that aspect. Diode block the recharging of the system that is why it is self sustaining ie... BOTH electromagnet working in unison not separate.
go ahead and keep your Diodes i applaud you but i will keep mine.

massive

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3295 on: March 16, 2016, 10:58:25 PM »

they Rheotomes in the 1800s ,  tesla diagram fig2 , T = capacitor , S = rheotome , on the left is another , these are not commutators but easily called commutator today
Robert Adams motor used a rheptome with copper segments and adjustable brushes

shhows adjustable brushes on both instruments
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_patent_142352.png 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolyte_Pixii
it says DC pulse was preferred over AC .

DC interupters dont give reversal but expand and colapsing field


hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3296 on: March 16, 2016, 11:59:04 PM »
Hi oscar,

I agree. In Figuera generator doubling the frequency could double the output, but just because it is a system designed to reduce the Lenz effect and it does not require motion. In this case it is supposed that more frequency more output. But this is not the case always: in common transformers doubling the frequency will not give extra output, because Lenz is increased with higher frequencies. I said that supposedly Figuera just used small frequencies arounf 50 Hz and he was getting 20000 watts from 100 watts input. So no high frequencies should be required to get the juice.

I do not know why the frequency of our AC is 50Hz or 60Hz. I do  ot know the reason behind those numbers

The results I have shown correspond to the setup on my post from the 13rd of March. Coils with 300 turns with wire  1 mm diameter. Core diameter 90 mm, coil length 50 mm

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3297 on: March 17, 2016, 12:10:54 AM »
massive;  i am assuming you mean rheostat not (rheotome) or (reptome).

Quote; "DC interupters dont give reversal but expand and colapsing field"

basically yes,  and that is what Figuera did with his electromagnet powered with DC. as the declining electromagnet is in the declining phase the inclining electromagnet basically shoves the declining electromagnet back into the core allowing it to recharge the system in the form of magnetic field in part G which is a cored Rheostat or Variac used with DC. yes, look it up a Vaiac can be used with DC but they call it a RHEOSTAT and that's is exactly what Figuera did.

the two companies i have narrowed it down to that built the part G was Otto and one from Doug was Zeiss. they are the most prominent companies in Germany at the time and they built precision Variacs and Rheostats not Resistors.

imagine that !

Clemente Figuera was a Genius.

MM

massive

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3298 on: March 17, 2016, 01:54:07 AM »
Rheostat supposedly invented by charles wheatstone 1843 , Rheotome possibly invented by Hippolyte Pixii 1832, he was an instrument maker

Tesla patent I linked has a basic diagram and Robert Adams used similar design in his motors

Rheotome is a component that has been lost from vocab of science

Rheo = current , Tome = break

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #3299 on: March 17, 2016, 04:39:22 AM »
So now that the history lessen is over what is your point about Figuera i don't all ready know??? please so clue me in.