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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1625093 times)

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #630 on: February 16, 2014, 12:36:31 AM »
Ok. Next time I build the device I will make the secondary coils to go to earth as a safty measure. We will measure the voltage and amperage then. Is that ok. Whether you all agree or not this is what I'm going to do as I need to check the voltage and then wind a transformer to reduce the voltage and increase the amperage. That is both safe as well as increase our confidence that higher the voltage, higher would be the amperage. We will then build a customized step down transformer to step down the voltage and then give the output to the load. We can all then see if the output power is higher than the input power or not..We will try to do this within about ten days..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #631 on: February 16, 2014, 12:50:54 AM »
Hi NMS:

The photo shown by you is different.

Mine was a rocket like set up or pencil like set up..

Three electromagnets all connected in series. Like a Pencil or Rocket..

NS - NS - NS

Bolded NS are Primary 1 and Primary 2. In these things a step down secondary is wound first upon which the quadfilar coil was wound as primary.

The secondary NS is a step up version of a single wire having several layers. I did not count the turns and layers. But we ensures that the P1 and P2 had equal number of primary wires to get the same magnetic field strength. Ene of P1 connected to beginning of P2.

All three secondaries are in series..

There is nothing more to my set up. Simple one but a large one to construct. we believe that about 6 feet of iron rods and a lot of them are needed to get sufficient force and magnetic flux to induce the secondary. There are no moving parts. Large the core, the larger would be the output is true.

Will get back to you later. Bye for now..

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #632 on: February 16, 2014, 01:20:07 AM »
One problem can be if the voltage and current output are 90 degrees out of phase then you'll get next to no output power as the power factor will be close to zero. but the open circuit voltage and short circuit current might not indicate that, it would help to see voltage and current traces for the output while on load of say 60 Watts compared to say 25 Watts, then we could see what would happen with even more load as a picture of circuit behavior is made.

If the "magic" is happening in the arrangement of the transformer parts then all we need replicate is the actual transformer arrangement and excite it to get the same current/voltage phasing that the resistor array/commutator does. Remember Figuera says that no real diligence is required so there should not need to be any micron tolerances for gaps ect.

Many people in the past have excited transformers or (coils) from both ends with opposite polarities and different phasing. I fail to understand how people can think no one has tried to do just exactly that before.

Figuera died not long after his claims changed from a 1902 regular inverter type arrangement to a 1908 device that is self powering and outputting copious power as well as running itself with no real changes to the device.
This in itself is odd. Is it possible that the sudden onset of an illness could have affected his judgement ? Back in the day he lived little was known of many illnesses which can affect cognitive function. Maybe Bufon was a hypnotist, anything is possible.

The main thing is the device is tested properly and investigated.

Woopy made a video showing a small setup where the output did not affect the input, but that means nothing unless the output is more than the input. What it probably means is the voltage and current output are likely about 90 degrees out of phase.

So we need a north and south inducer coils on cores and an induced coil between, when the north coil is energized as compared to the south coil needs to be graphed. Is it 180 out of phase as in a normal inverter or is it 90 degrees out of phase ?

Bufon's claim that to get industrial scale currents the induced coils need to be wound under the inducer coils on the same core means something. That is if he did make the claim, I don't read Spanish.  :-[

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #632 on: February 16, 2014, 01:20:07 AM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #633 on: February 16, 2014, 01:32:16 AM »
Farmhand:

I also don't read spanish. I typed the patent of Buforn in to google translate and got the translation.

I do not know what is the phase of the secondary with respect to the primary. What I did is simple.

Wound a single wire secondary core on P1. 3 layers If I remember correctly about 85 to 88 turns per layer.
Wound the primary upon the secondary. Quadfilar primary.
Primary is wound for a number of layers and turns. Probably about four or five.
Primary and secondary are wound in same direction. This is P1.

Identical P2 is also wound.

The secondary is the middle coil which is single wired and is made up of many layers and a number of turns.

Connection is like this NSP1- NSs-NSP2

Now I do not know if there is any 90' phase difference or 180' phase difference is there. What is the phase difference between the secondary and primary of a normal transformer must have been there as all the secondaries are connected in series.

Regarding phase difference between the P1 and P2 I do not know. Current circulated four times in P1 before it went to P2 where it circulated four times. So a time varying magnetic field is present in both P1 and P2. This induces the secondary which works.

There is nothing more than this for me to disclose at the moment. Sufficient information is given for any one to replicate the device.

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #634 on: February 16, 2014, 02:48:43 AM »
Farmhand:

Please check Buforn's patent. He demonstrated it before the spanish patent office. The spanish patent examiner agreed that the machine worked as claimed. That translation is provided by Hanon himself I think.

In my experiments what I have understood is this. Electricity and Magnetism can exist together or exist apart. We have had magnetism cancelled in devices we built but we have had eddy currents in the electromagnets. The rods did not magnetize. It depends on the way we wind the wires.

Similarly as I reported earlier if the magnet is very strong it blocks the electricity from moving forward. It is quite possible that iron rods have high impedance so electricity is not going to the load. Alternatively what I believed was that the powerful magnet acts in the reverse way of a rotating permanent or electromagnet that produces electricity and the static powerful electromagnet simply absorbed the electricity and sent it to atmosphere like a blackhole.

So we really do not have full information on this subject. You would no where find the info that high voltage: amperage ratio is a must for secondary to work. But thinking about it, I'm not aware of any transformer in mass use that uses low voltage and high amperage as input and works. My knowledge as I repeatedly acknowledge is limited but even if they do work, their efficiency would be way too low.

Calling Buforn a hyponotist or Figuera might have gone insane at old age are not fair when the Patent office has examined the device and certified that it worked as claimed. Simply because we do not have such devices today does not mean that the technology did not exist. There are several technologies of ancient era that are superior to todays technology but have disappeared. We do not have any information on them. Hanon must be complimented for his hard work to bring this patent and the device to our attention. My only limited part is I modified the device, understood the patent, eliminated the unnecessary parts and made the device a simple one. Because the input is given as AC or can be given as pulsed DC..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #634 on: February 16, 2014, 02:48:43 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #635 on: February 16, 2014, 06:31:17 AM »
I didn't call Bufon a hypnotist, I suggested the possibility. And the possibility of people suffering a rapid onset disease that affects cognitive function is real.

Here is all I see about the "demonstration" to the patent examiner. It certainly doesn't seem so simple as him saying that he observed the device "in operation" and producing more output than input energy.

Quote
GERONIMO BOLIBAR
Engineer-Industrial Property Agent
Barcelona
 
Honorable Sir,
In compliance with Article 100 of the Law of Property May 16, 1902 I have the honor to
transmit to you a certificate signed by engineer D. Jose Ma Bolibar y Pinós crediting to
have conducted measures of practical implementation of the patent No. 47706 issued
on June 6, 1910 in favor of Constantine Buforn by an “Electrical Generator "Universal".
God preserve you many years.
Barcelona June 5, 1913. Signed: Gerónimo Bolibar
To: Illustrious Lord Chief Registrar of Industrial Property


....................................................................


D. Jose Ma Bolibar y Pinós, Industrial Engineer, at the request of D. Constantine
Buforn, patentee of invention No. 47706.
 
Certify: That I have examined the material consisting of original memory corresponding
to said background patent, issued on June 6, 1910, for "A GENERATOR OF
ELECTRICITY" UNIVERSAL "which consists essentially of a series of inducer
electromagnets combined with a series of electromagnets or induced coils, a switch
and comprising a brush or rotary switch, which makes contact successively on the
series of fixed contacts and get a continuous variation of the current flowing through
the coils of the inducer electromagnets, developing in this manner a current in induced
coils
.
 
I further certify that provided the necessary reports when they had to come to the
knowledge of the conditions under which it is carried out the exploitation of this patent
,
that D. Constantine Buforn exploitation of this patent in the street Universidad No. 110
ground floor, of this city, having of all the elements necessary for the construction, in
the proportion rational for its use, of electricity generators which are described and
characterized in the memory of that patent
.
 
For all these reasons, I consider the above patent implementation in accordance with
Article 98 provided in the current Industrial Property Law.

And for the record I issue this in the city of Barcelona on June 5, 1913.
Signed: J.M. Bolibar


..............................................................

On June 6, 1913 Mr. G. Bolibar submitted certification dated June 5, 1913 and signed
by Mr. J.M. Bolibar, Industrial Engineer, to justify the implementation of the invention
patent number 47406.
 
NOTE
 
In view of what is stated in the certification referred to in the above extract, presented
for the purposes of Article 100 of the Law, and as the application was filed within the
period set by Article 99 of the Law thereof, the undersigned believes appropriate to
declare as implemented the object of that patent, according to article 34 of the
Regulation.
V.S. resolved
Madrid, July 9, 1913
Signed
 
 
Implemented
Number 47706
July 9, 1913
The note
Signed


Unfortunately I am unable to locate the English translations of the patents number 47406 and Patent number 47706. So if anyone could link those I will read them.

There are several possibilities.

1) The Engineer-Industrial Property Agent status of the examiner may not have qualified him to properly analyze the device.

2) He was paid.

3) The device outputs more power than input but not more energy.

4) The device shows more current output than current input but not more energy.

5) The device actually does output more energy than is input to the device by the operator and we will all soon have free energy for ever.

..

Anyway the proof is in the pudding and old patents will not power household appliances. To do that we need a real device.

Now if we look at the control setup with the commutator and resistor array, and plot a phase diagram we ought to be able to determine what the phase relationship between the south and north magnetization of the inducer coils is, then we ought to be able to emulate that and with the same type of inducer induced coil arrangement we should get the promised result.

..


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #636 on: February 16, 2014, 08:53:59 AM »
Hi Farmhand:

Thanks for your detailed analysis.. I agree that people can suddenly lose their cognitive functions but that does not happen until the age 78 or so as I could recall. At age 68 for a working person suddenly losing cognitive functions is very difficult to happen. Neurodegenerative diseases do not show up very late. It is only now these subjects are still being researched. I have written patent applications for vaccines for many such diseases.

The modified figuera  device as described and built by me outputs more voltage and amperage than input amperage and voltage. That is all I have determined.  I would neither claim overunity nor claim it as free energy. And I believe that devices can be made to self sustain themselves. Most hydroelectric turbines use a small input power to generate a large output because the rotor is driven by the water force. This small exciting current can be and is taken from the output to run the turbine.

In a similar way a solar powered agricultural water pump can produce electricity by using micro water turbines which are then driving Low RPM alternators to produce a lot of power. That power can be used to charge batteries and provide lighting if we use a large battery bank to store that energy. If power from the alternator is given to this device the output power is going to be greater than the one originally supplied and more batteries can be charged which can then be inverted to useful power.

If you are talking about free energy, I would understand that nothing is free. If you want to stay healthy do a bit of walking, exercise, eat at proper times proper food and have proper sleep. So even to stay normally healthy we need to follow these practices. By that way these experiments have cost me a lot of money and time and it is certainly not free of investment and effort. The learning curve was not free. So nothing comes free without effort. By that view, the solar cells that produce electricity are not free to buy and install but are only converting energy that was being wasted in to useable power.  So essentially Free energy is energy that was hithertobefore wasted and now converted to useable energy. Regarding overunity, if you look at my posts I'm not really not competent to say any thing on the subject.

All I can share and have done is to share the results of my experiments. My experiments strongly indicate that so far the devices that have been built have not used the forces of magnetic attraction but forces of magnetic repulsion. When both these forces are used together to create useful output power, then what we can get as output voltage and amperage is greater than the input voltage and amperage.

Other assumptions are not scientific statements but mere assumptions on your part.  100 years back corruption was negligible not even heard of in most places of the world. The racial practices of the society were different. If you are from US, until very recently blacks were not even given the right to vote I believe. So do not assume things. People did not take bribes that easily in olden days..Society and its values were different. Figuera had a reputation to protect. Buforn as a Patent Attorney has maintained the patent at his own expense for several years. After that we do not know if he sold it out for a fee.  Unless there is something worthwhile, a Lawyer would not spend his own money.

But the strange thing about the Figuera device is this.. It uses both the forces of magnetic attraction and magnetic repulsion again and again and again in the core to build more output power than the initial input. That modular approach combined with using both the forces of magnetic attraction and magnetic repulsion again and again is what strikes me as highly innovative. And it avoids mechanical force totally.

Just name any other generator that does this today..To my limited knowledge there does not appear to be any such generator that uses both the forces of magnetic attraction and magnetic repulsion. 

I believe for these reasons and for the reasons of my results that there is very significant potential in this concept and device. I just assisted the community with the results of my experiments so people can take it forward and keep it in the public domain.

I would appreciate if rather than theorizing any one would try to replicate the experiments very simple ones at that now that I have shared that I did with you all and verify if what I found was true or false..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #636 on: February 16, 2014, 08:53:59 AM »
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Offline Marsing

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #637 on: February 16, 2014, 08:54:48 AM »

Simply this is an amplifying transformer. Two step down transformers  acting as primary electromagnets set up in such a way that the opposite poles of the two are facing each other and in that place you place another secondary of many turns to step up the voltage. Then what you get is both amperage and voltage increase. In the step down transformers, amperage is increased and in the secondary between the two step down transformers voltage is increased. When all three secondaries are connected in series you get both a voltage and amperage increase. This is as simple as that.


  "In the step down transformers, amperage is increased and in the secondary between the two step down transformers voltage is increased. When all three secondaries are connected in series you get both a voltage and amperage increase. This is as simple as that"

NRamaswami,

I tried to figure things up from your view , from  many of your posts,
but your above statement were amazing/wonderfull/magic/..../.....   etc,   :)
I think, "That is not as simple as that".

can you post a "simple  drawing"?, at least with paint application.


Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #638 on: February 16, 2014, 09:43:54 AM »
NRamaswami


Can you look at picture and correct it ? Sorry, I used Paint to do that  :-[ We also need to know is that is one one single core (composed of iron rods) or there are 3 cores inside with gaps (as suggested by original patent) , and again the wire sizes, all information about construction repeated, sorry. It's very hard to guess from the word description.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #638 on: February 16, 2014, 09:43:54 AM »
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Offline Marsing

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #639 on: February 16, 2014, 11:36:37 AM »

OK,
is this your version of Figuera ?

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #640 on: February 16, 2014, 12:41:06 PM »
I think Mr. Ramaswami stated long tubes one after the other, may be like this attached.
he will tell us which one is the closer to his setup.
Regards
Alvaro

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #640 on: February 16, 2014, 12:41:06 PM »
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Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #641 on: February 16, 2014, 12:41:16 PM »
I had always wondered why Figuera used two primaries. It is clear that he looked for a balance of forces between both them to get and special effect. If not he just had used one primary.

I have an official document that shows that Figuera kept working in a new design after selling the 1902 patent. Maybe he was upset after seeing that they buried his generator. He derived a new design in his 1908 patent

Buforn paid all his patents until 1914.

Regards

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #642 on: February 16, 2014, 01:14:44 PM »
Hi:

1. Air gaps were present in between the cores.

2. The drawing given by ALVARO_CS is very close to what we did. My eyesight is poor and I'm not able to figure out what is the difference between his two figures. Both of them look the same to me.

3. All other earlier drawings are not correct. ALVARO_CS has understood my description correctly.

The drawin that shows an E core and I core in the middle and another E core in the reverse direction is wrong. This is all one straight tube and I said it is rocket like or pencil like to make things more clear. ALVARO_CS is very correct in his drawings but I do not see what is the difference between his two figures.

4. You can connect two step down transformers in series. Amperage will remain reduced but voltage of the two will be combined as the secondaries are in series. This is common knowledge. When we add a middle section where the forces that operate are not the normal forces of magnetic repulsion but forces of magnetic attraction between opposite poles, voltage and amperage increases further..

The problem is that all of you are educated in theory. I'm not..So not knowing things will not work, I have carried out experiments and when we found that the texts do not describe what happens clearly but the experimental results are contradictory, we went by the experimental results..Nothing more..

By the way, how many of you know how to convert iron to permanent magnet and how many of you have actually converted iron to permanent magnet? Real hands on experience..For many electricians I contacted did not know and have not performed that part and did not even that knowledge..

I have reported my experimental findings.. nothing more..I will do the experiments with a step down transformer and let you all know what is the usable output obtained. That I think should solve the issue..

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #643 on: February 16, 2014, 01:24:09 PM »
Hi Forest:

All wires are 4 sq mm wires that can carry up to 24 amps.

Both secondary and primary are only 4 sq mm wires.

We bought coils after coils of wires of 4 sq mm only. Then put them all together and wrapped up them to make a quadfilar coil. I do not remember the exact number of layers of primary but it was four layers and both primary sides had the same number of layers and same number of turns. Then the magnetic field strength is approximately equal.

However the resistor effect may be there due to the current circulating four times in the primary P1 first before it went to P2 where it circulated another four times before it returned to mains.

Will it have any effect? I really do not have any theoretical knowledge on this part. Nor do I have equipment to measure these things nor I have knowledge or experience in handling such equipment or even what those equipment are..

Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #644 on: February 16, 2014, 01:24:56 PM »
hanon


In my opinion,in
1918 Hubbard took exactly the same and slightly improved version of device, and in 1921 he had already finished 8 -transformer device in loop,  self-running and producing 40kW output. Between 1918 and 1939 you can found surprisingly many free energy inventors taking energy from Earth "atmosphere".

 

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