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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1640696 times)

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #555 on: February 09, 2014, 12:18:42 AM »
Hanon: Many thanks for your brilliant detective work.
I have a couple of questions.
In the UK copies of patents are held in Reference libraries up and down the country.
Is there a chance that there may be better copies in the Spanish reference library system?
In the UK there are also technical journals in the library system.
Is there a chance that there are old Spanish technical journals  dealing with Figuerea's inventions?

Hi,

You have to realize that we are talking about a time in the first years at the begining of the 20th century. As far as I know there are not more copies of this patents apart for the Official Historical Archive in the Patent Office.

In that time the patents were handwritten. For the first time I am publishing here the pictures taken from the patent 30378 (Figuera Generator) (year 1902). You can note the current state of the sheets.

Also I attach here the clipping from the Official Bulletin (Boletin Oficial de Propiedad Industrial, BOPI) with the formal  requirements that were not fulfilled by Figuera. Requirements: the objective of the patent is not clearly described, the scale in the drawing is missing, the ownership conditions and the novelty must be explicitly stated.

I hope you can enjoy this documents, at least at historical notes. I haven´t disclosed it till now because they are not technical documents.

For all the translations of the patents and other historical notes about Figuera please look into this site: http://www.alpoma.net/tecob/?page_id=8258

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #556 on: February 09, 2014, 05:08:27 PM »
Has anyone built this exactly as drawn in the patent/s yet? No deviations.

Offline NoMoreSlave

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #557 on: February 09, 2014, 05:34:24 PM »
Hallo Hanon,
thank you for the your dedication and for the help you are giving to the community.
I am working in the document, tying to make it understandable as much as I can.

BTW, I was expecting some more reaction to the artwork I uploaded, but...In order to give you something to think about it:

Quote
PRINCIPIO DE LA INVENCIÓN
    Puesto que todos sabemos que los efectos que se manifiestan cuando un circuito cerrado se aproxima y se aleja de un centro magnético son los mismos que cuando, estando quieto e inmóvil este circuito, el campo magnético dentro del cual está colocado ganando y perdiendo en intensidad; y puesto que toda variación que por cualquiera causa, se produzca en el flujo que atraviese a un circuito es motivo de producción de corriente eléctrica
inducida, se pensó en la posibilidad de construir una máquina que funcionara,
no según el principio de movimiento, como lo hacen las actuales dinamos, sino según el principio de aumento y disminución, o sea de variación del poder del campo magnético, o de la corriente eléctrica que lo produce..

“…For the first time in the patent, he revealed the option used in his invention:
Creating induced current by changing the flux density using a variable excitation current.  as simple as that!, by doing that, you create or destroy the lines of flux making then to move closer or wider from each other's, this movement cut the coil winding!” => you need the best core materials to get the best electromagnet …lamination with high permeability ...nothing new for us..

Then you have to find the CONVENIENT position for the collecting coil or the induced=> just look at PEAKS in the AC curve ;) do you see how are the 2 B´s??

You will find more in the document, once is over.

Hi Doug1,
That is my intention (IMO, that should be the first step, and then playing with 3 coils). I am working on the commutator right now.

Regards,
NMS

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #557 on: February 09, 2014, 05:34:24 PM »
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Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #558 on: February 09, 2014, 08:55:55 PM »

Creating induced current by changing the flux density using a variable excitation current.  as simple as that!, by doing that, you create or destroy the lines of flux making then to move closer or wider from each other's, this movement cut the coil winding!

One thought I have been digesting is that the system , as difference with a transformer, has two magnetic fields. When both fields are equal (I1 = I2) both have the same intensity and they create a perfect link between them: all the lines of forces cross from one side to the other along the collecting coil. But when one field increases and the other decreases I think that this link is broken and the lines of force are not crossing the collecting coil anymore but they must go other site and thus they cut the winding. I posted an sketch in page 27 at the bottom. Maybe you want to go there to have a look.

It is just an idea trying to answer the question: Why did Figuera required two electromagnets, one at each side, with different magnetic fields instead of havinghat the same field?

I have found this video. Does someone know what it is explained? It seem a basic Figuera coil configuration
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rIlTB4orFZ4

Regards

Offline shadow119g

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #559 on: February 09, 2014, 11:30:42 PM »
Welcome MNS!

 Doug 1,

I am attempting to build the "old school" device with few changes. It is difficult to build a commutator
like a barrel like Mr Figuera, so I built one on a flat plane like the drawing shows. Since I was using
a 1800 RPM motor, I decided to increase the contacts to 32. Sounds simple enough but the amount of
connections and wires are confusing to say the least. I do not recommend this. If I don't get it sorted
out soon, I will build another with 16.
Anyway, I have four sets of transformers. I am having trouble right now getting the wiring for them and
the resistor to do what I wanted them to do. So far no good results. Also, I just found out that the
wiring diagram I had printed from the Internet wasn't correct and had the connections to the
transformers wrong.
I will keep everyone up to date it I have any success.

Thanks,

Shadow

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #559 on: February 09, 2014, 11:30:42 PM »
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Offline Artoj

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #560 on: February 10, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
Hi All

I think Figuera made his patent vague enough so you could not copy his work and broad enough to cover a multitude of configurations, this is the writing and drawing of someone keen on both protecting his work and misleading its true configuration. We can all use our expertise, just as 100's of others have done to make different versions, alas I can only add another version myself. We are confronted by the fallacy of words against the engineering reality. I have added a few simple switches that can reconfigure some of the vagueness to concrete possibilities  Regards Arto


Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #561 on: February 10, 2014, 06:08:41 PM »
Please bear with me on this and read on.  :) I'm posting because I am interested, not to try to dissuade anyone.

Not sure if anyone has noted or mentioned this but Tesla's patent for the Apparatus for the Utilization of Radiant Energy - was issued 1901 November 5,
and the patent for Method of Utilizing of Radiant Energy - 1901 November 5.

Now both these patents pre date Figuera's patent, and so it makes sense to me that Figuera may well have used the atmospheric or radiant energy collector to gather the energy to power the device, but could not possibly patent that part because Tesla already did it, it is even possible that Tesla heard of Figuera's plan and intuitively knew what he was doing and so hurriedly filed the patent first even though he likely thought of the principal many years before. Figuera's patent is 1902, very close to the same time and due to Tesla already patenting the general idea of getting energy from the atmosphere, Figuera was left only with the "rotary switched inverter" apparatus to patent which could be used to generate AC electricity from the energy gained from the collector.

It is just one possibility that makes sense as the patent shows a positive and negative input and it describes an exciting current from an external source. Although.

The parts in bold in the paragraph below don't really make sense. Firstly if the current does not return to the generator there is no current loop and so it would not even work without that happening, so the current returning to the generator means little to nothing. Secondly if the feeding current was just removed then the current loop would need to be connected back to itself to maintain a current loop, and as well the 'output power as the result of the initial feeding current' would need to be more power in real Watts than the "input power" related to the feeding current.
One thing is for sure, and that is if a switch was opened to disconnect the feeding current the current loop would be broken and the operation would cease very quickly. This leaves two options the input was shorted to itself or a battery or other source of potential was left connected. No current will flow without a closed loop, unless through displacement current as in a capacitor and that only works with AC. Thirdly if the device did in fact produce more output than input and could work with no input then it would surely continue to increase the system energy until destruction. He seems to be claiming that the returning of the current means it will keep working with no further input. I don't think the entire story is told. If I genuinely thought it could work I would surely try to build one, and if someone does in fact end up looping one I will eat my hat on video and apologize. I think it possible he could start it with a battery then use the collector to continue it's working.

Quote
As seen in the drawing the current, once that has made its function, returns to the generator where taken; naturally in every revolution of the brush will be a change of sign in the induced current; but a switch will do it continuous if wanted.  From this current is derived a small part to excite the machine converting it in self-exciting and to operate the small motor which moves the brush and the switch; the external current supply, this is the feeding current, is removed and the machine continue working without any help indefinitely.
   

Something doesn't add up. But I would say that if the initial power source is removed and the current loop was broken by the feed wires not connected together, there would be no more current and it would definitely cease to work.

He does claim it can be done somehow in this patent http://www.alpoma.com/figuera/patente_1908.pdf 1908 though he is not clear on how to remove the feeding current supply. I read it that he claims it runs itself.

Quote
As seen in the drawing the current, once that has made its function, returns
to the generator where taken; naturally in every revolution of the brush will be
a change of sign in the induced current; but a switch will do it continuous if
wanted. From this current is derived a small part to excite the machine
converting it in self-exciting and to operate the small motor which moves the brush and the switch; the external current supply, this is the feeding current,
is removed and the machine continue working without any help indefinitely.

 

However in this patent 1902 http://www.alpoma.com/figuera/docums/30378.pdf  he makes no such claim but states this.
Quote
The driving current, or is
an independent current, which, if direct, must be interrupted or changed in sign
alternately by any known method, or is a part of the total current of the
generator, as it is done today in the current dynamos
.

Anyway good luck, and I hope to taste my hat soon.  :D

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #561 on: February 10, 2014, 06:08:41 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #562 on: February 11, 2014, 03:33:48 AM »
Anyone know how old Figuera was when he died ?

..

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #563 on: February 11, 2014, 03:04:09 PM »
Figuera was 68 years-old when he died in november 1908.
 
He was still working as engineer for the Spanish government, but all this research was done in his spare time, not related to his job for the State

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #563 on: February 11, 2014, 03:04:09 PM »
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Offline NoMoreSlave

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #564 on: February 11, 2014, 09:03:24 PM »
Hallo,
is Figuera a Lenz killer by 90 degrees?
Please make some +&- operation and share your opinion.

Hi Farmhand,
nice to see your post.
IMO, the switch you mentioned  is a commutator (the second one controlled by the motor, witch not appears in the patents, because it was a common method), it has the function of converting the AC to DC.
like the one you find in the DC motors but it is used in reveres mode, the brushes rotate to get DC from the statistic output coil for the self-looping.

Regards,
NMS


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #565 on: February 11, 2014, 09:06:07 PM »
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Offline NoMoreSlave

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #566 on: February 11, 2014, 09:19:18 PM »
Hi Arto,
I like your drawings!
but i dont see the looping back.
did you made that commutator/potis?
Thanks!

NMS

Offline Artoj

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #567 on: February 12, 2014, 12:52:08 AM »
Thanks NMS
I find most patent drawings misleading and sometimes incorrect. This is usually done so it is hard to copy, I redraw the patent so it is a step closer to engineering reality, which means I could build it and test the patent holders assertions about validity. I have been able to discover a lot about the nature of the deception or about the underlying designs, any which way is a step closer to knowing how something is supposed to work. I try to make it easier for others to find their answers, regards Arto.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #568 on: February 12, 2014, 07:10:55 AM »
Hallo,
is Figuera a Lenz killer by 90 degrees?
Please make some +&- operation and share your opinion.

Hi Farmhand,
nice to see your post.
IMO, the switch you mentioned  is a commutator (the second one controlled by the motor, witch not appears in the patents, because it was a common method), it has the function of converting the AC to DC.
like the one you find in the DC motors but it is used in reveres mode, the brushes rotate to get DC from the statistic output coil for the self-looping.

Regards,
NMS

EDIT: Actually the drawing does show the device is permanently looped, I think, my bad. Except for the one position it is shown in ?

If we turn the commutator one position, then the current loop goes from the commutator to the north coils then from the north coils to the south coils then back to the commutator and through the resistors back to where we started from.

Cheers

P.S What do you mean by the 90 degrees thing ?
Quote
is Figuera a Lenz killer by 90 degrees?
Do you mean 90 degrees phase difference between voltage and current at the output ?

..


Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #569 on: February 12, 2014, 08:00:33 AM »
I think it needs to tried exactly how it is drawn ! Even if only with one set of coils, three coils, one north, one south and one induced. A resistor board a commutator and a battery to start it.


Maybe a good idea to use a separate battery just to run the commutator so as to keep it at a constant speed. I don't think there is any need to worry about the power the commutator consumes. I think that can be overlooked for now.
..

If I am the first one to make it work do I get a let off on the hat eating.  ;D

..

 

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