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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1640686 times)

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #510 on: January 23, 2014, 12:45:12 AM »
Well done Bajac !!!

This is just the beginning . A COP = 3 is a very promising starting point.

Your expertise and skills make sure that the tests are accurate and the measurements are properly executed.

These results shows the potential of this device!!!

Best regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #511 on: January 23, 2014, 01:03:32 AM »
The way I figure it the power in the first line of the list of measurements I posted from the PDF shows a power dissipated of 0.215 Watts with an input of 9.2 Watts which works out to 0.215 W out divided by 9.2 W in = 0.02 C.O.P. or an efficiency of 2%.

..

Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #512 on: January 23, 2014, 01:40:45 AM »
Farmhand,


Based on the oscilloscope current and voltage waveform, I estimated a phase angle of approximately 40 degrees. That is why I proposed a 30% derating factor to account for errors in the phase angle and instrumentation equipment. You can even use 75% error, and still, it looks promising. The results are not conclusive because there are a lot of tests that need to be performed on real loads. We should not get excited, yet. I estimated the power at short circuit from the Thevenin equivalent circuit. You should be careful when applying the Thevenin circuit to batteries. The problem with batteries is that the Thevenin voltage changes with the charging state. That is, the open circuit voltage of new and used batteries are not the same.


In addition, I was frustrated with the step driver. Please, note that not all the settings of the step driver and the primary taps give an apparent overunity. I expect the testing results to improve when using a voltage power supply. I just ordered seven wired wound rheostats of 25W/20-Ohms each. I will build a resistor box and wired them in series. It will be much easier to adjust the value of the rheostats than replacing and soldering individual power resistors.


I am also searching for a dynamo that can generate two voltages with 90 degrees difference. Does anyone know?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #512 on: January 23, 2014, 01:40:45 AM »
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Offline Marsing

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #513 on: January 23, 2014, 04:30:41 AM »

I am also searching for a dynamo that can generate two voltages with 90 degrees difference. Does anyone know?

( i am not sure)
 stepper motor can  generate  that, with low voltage and high ampere
and need low speed to drive stepper.

Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #514 on: January 23, 2014, 06:18:13 PM »
Marsing,
I am sorry for the confusion. What I wanted to say is that I am looking for a dynamo from which two 90 degree out of phase voltages can be generated. Dynamos normally are single phase. But, if the dynamo has four poles, then its internal connections can be modified to output two quadratic voltages. I referred to four poles because the geometrical and electrical degrees coincide.
Thank you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #514 on: January 23, 2014, 06:18:13 PM »
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Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #515 on: January 24, 2014, 02:56:19 AM »
Please, note that the results from the tests are preliminary. I would not take these results too seriously.


I just do not like them because the step driver source is not a reliable power source for this particular application. I wanted to share them for argument sake and keep our discussion. Shortly, I hope to start the tests as intended by Mr. Figuera in his patent. Only then, we can discuss the results with more authority.


I have to say that I have gained a lot of knowledge from this setup. In this learning process, I have made few changes and witness the output current grow from 0.1 Amp to about 1.0 Amp. I am sharing my findings in this thread as a way to help you avoid my mistakes.


I cannot wait to build another one with an iron core having larger cross-sectional area.

Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #516 on: January 24, 2014, 02:02:40 PM »
There seems to be some confusion with the application of the Thevenin circuit. Well, the Thevenin circuit is the same for standard transformers also. The circuit has a voltage source (Thevenin) voltage in series with a resistors (Thevenin resistance). At open circuit, there is no current flowing and the output voltage is equal to the Thevenin voltage. As you load the circuit, the current will increase and the output voltage will decrease as per the voltage division formed by the load and the Thevenin resistance (power source internal resistor).
If you continue changing the load, there will be a point at which the load impedance is equal to the internal resistance of the power source (Thevenin resistance). This point is known as the maximum power transfer condition. If you continue changing the load to a zero impendance, the condition is known as short circuit. At short circuit, the power transferred to the load is zero. But the Thevenin circuit (secondary of the transformer) is heavily load showing the higher current value. The secondary of the transformer is producing power at a rate of Voc x Isc which is dissipated in the internal (Thevenin) resistance as heat. That is why the short circuit test shall be as quick as possible. Otherwise, you endup burning the transformer. For standard transfomers, the short circuit test is performed by reducing the applied voltage in order to limit the power being dissipated.
Notice that the maximum power transfer theorem is not used in power systems because 50% of the power being transferred is consumed by the load and 50% is consumed by the transformer. The maximum power condition is only used for communication and audio systems that deal with relatively low amount of power.
I kind of surprise that this basic concept has caused such a ruckus.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #516 on: January 24, 2014, 02:02:40 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #517 on: January 24, 2014, 07:07:41 PM »
But coils on a separate cores is not a normal transformer. When I do the experiment with AC a normal coil on a normal core and place another coil on another identical core so the cores are very close together the supply voltage does not drop nor does the supply power increase (if it does it is not much, I cannot notice it, if anything it seems to reduce), only the induced voltage drops in the separate or induced coil and some current flows. If I use the theorem you used I would get similar results with that as well. I will test this second arrangement. The coils in this experiment will have less than 1 Ohm resistance.

Was the AC voltage RMS for all values in your equations ?

Cheers

I guess my point is that if there is extra energy with an arrangement as described then the same would happen with any such arrangement, the excitement method would make little to no difference. If there is extra energy I'll use it, if not I cannot use it. That is my angle.

Why use a special driver, why not power it with an isolation transformer and a sine wave ?

..


Offline RMatt

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #518 on: January 25, 2014, 02:39:26 AM »
Hi Bajac,

On the Barbosa and Leal thread, SolarLab posted in reply #375, an interesting link to a website about Dr. Harold Aspden. In report #1, Dr. Aspden writes in length about "air gaps". I don't know if this will help or not, just thought it interesting.

Bob

Hi Fellows,

Dr. Harold Aspden's two latest patents [UK Patent # 2,432,463 May 23, 2007 and #2,390,941 January 21, 2004] both relating to "Electrical power generating apparatus."

Here are several related links, not only to the patent information but Aether Electric theory in general.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Harold_Aspden
Scroll down to the PATENTS heading.

http://haroldaspden.com/
http://haroldaspden.com/reports/index.htm     
Aspden's "Reports," especially No. 1 and No. 6; you may find provide a fresh prospective (???).

Regards...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #518 on: January 25, 2014, 02:39:26 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #519 on: January 25, 2014, 05:33:07 AM »
Bajac, Can I respectfully ask what the DC resistance of your 800 turn secondary coil is ?

My Tutor indicates that the output impedance is what the Thevenin's Theorem tells us. eg. an open circuit voltage of 50.5 volts and a short circuit current of 0.463 A tell me the output impedance is about 109 Ohms.

Handy online calculator
http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/power-calculator.php

Quote
RESISTANCE, REACTANCE AND IMPEDANCE

Resistance causes the loss of (i.e. dissipates) power,
reactance does not. Pure (ideal) reactance returns all energy that it stores in its field.

http://www.magazines007.com/pdf/Brooks-RCI-2.pdf


And here.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/1.html

Quote
At a frequency of 60 Hz, the 160 millihenrys of inductance gives us 60.319 Ω of inductive reactance. This reactance combines with the 60 Ω of resistance to form a total load impedance of 60 + j60.319 Ω, or 85.078 Ω ∠ 45.152o. If we're not concerned with phase angles (which we're not at this point), we may calculate current in the circuit by taking the polar magnitude of the voltage source (120 volts) and dividing it by the polar magnitude of the impedance (85.078 Ω). With a power supply voltage of 120 volts RMS, our load current is 1.410 amps. This is the figure an RMS ammeter would indicate if connected in series with the resistor and inductor.

We already know that reactive components dissipate zero power, as they equally absorb power from, and return power to, the rest of the circuit. Therefore, any inductive reactance in this load will likewise dissipate zero power. The only thing left to dissipate power here is the resistive portion of the load impedance. If we look at the waveform plot of voltage, current, and total power for this circuit, we see how this combination works in Figure below.

Cheers

Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #520 on: January 25, 2014, 04:13:50 PM »
RMatt,
Thank you for the information! I have found it very interesting so far. I will keep reading it.


Farmhand,
I prefer to conduct new tests using the 1908 configuration and re-evaluate the results. I just do not see the point for arguing on results from tests that do not really replicate Figuera's settings. Let's just wait a few more weeks when I expect to have completed the driving circuit. Anyway, we have waited for more than 100 years.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #520 on: January 25, 2014, 04:13:50 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #521 on: January 25, 2014, 11:23:50 PM »
Then this is for the others who may be interested.

OK then, so lets just suppose the DC resistance of the coil is an arbitrary 5 Ohms and the current is 0.463 Amperes.  Power = Current squared x Resistance or P= (I x I) x R. So assuming that the reactance portion of the impedance does not dissipate power we get the result below.

I = 0.463 Amperes and R = 5 Ohms so 0.463 x 0.463 = 0.214369 x 5 = 1.07 Watts dissipated in the example above.

So now lets say the input for the above example is 9.2 Watts, then if we divide the 1.07 W x 9.2 W = 0.11 % of the input is dissipated in the 5 Ohms DC resistance of the coil.

No point to working out a C.O.P. as there is no output. But if it were expressed as a C.O.P. it would be a C.O.P. = 0.11. I think.

Not knowing any actual resistances I'll leave it at that.

I think it is very important that other people do not get the wrong idea and go shouting C.O.P. 3 which whips up hype.

So the only thing left is for other people to either do the math themselves or get another opinion before they go shouting C.O.P. 3.

I think there is sufficient evidence in the links I provided to suggest the method I employed is correct.

Cheers

P.S. The Thevenin Theorem allow us to ascertain the output impedance and so with that we can calculate the power which would be delivered to a given load.

Maybe someone will confirm or correct my calculation.

..

 

Offline bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #522 on: January 26, 2014, 12:37:41 AM »
FYI: in practice things are more complicated.


On a regular basis, I have to witness factory tests and I also have to review the test reports for traction power transformers and rectifier equipment. In these reports, you cannot take for granted the DC resistance of the coils. For example, because the DC resistance changes with temperature we have to use formulas to extrapolate between the DC resistance and the actual temperature of the winding.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #523 on: January 26, 2014, 03:19:51 AM »
FYI: in practice things are more complicated.


On a regular basis, I have to witness factory tests and I also have to review the test reports for traction power transformers and rectifier equipment. In these reports, you cannot take for granted the DC resistance of the coils. For example, because the DC resistance changes with temperature we have to use formulas to extrapolate between the DC resistance and the actual temperature of the winding.

I didn't take it for granted I asked you but you didn't say so I used an arbitrary figure as an example. As I stated clearly.

The point is only the DC resistance dissipates power. The AC reactance impedance does not.

..

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #524 on: January 27, 2014, 07:01:42 PM »
Are we assuming the device in question was producing ac? After looking over the news paper articles I see no evidence which would indicate the currents are alternating or direct. Motors and lights come in both forms ac and dc.
  Many days of deeper reading have brought me to a place where I have some concerns over the assumptions that this device is producing ac currents.Not to say it could not be used by conversion into ac. Just something to think about.
  As for That-Prophet, not only can one make the loop.It can run with gain. 100 watts can become 10,000 as was proven in WWII on most battle ships.It's called an Amplidyne.
 

 

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