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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1547251 times)

Offline hanon

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« Reply #435 on: December 19, 2013, 10:11:21 PM »
For deep study:
 
 I think I have discovered a new configuration which may get OU finally. I want to share with you that in a configuration with like poles facing each other the induced magnetic field will not act against the inducer field (as usual) but it seems to reinforce the inducer field in the electromagnet which is increasing in strenght at that moment. In other words: the induction take place to ASSIST the inducer field, not to reduce it, as usually happens in the Lenz effect.

The important idea is to note that induction can take place as consecuence of two different phenomena:

1- Induction by flux cutting the induced wire: This induction is done by the lines of field cutting the wires. This motional emf usually creates a dragging force which acts against the movement. As this is a motionless device there won´t be any dragging force.

E_cut = B·v·Length·sin(Theta)

2- Induction by flux linking two coils
: This induction is done by the flux linking two coils. This induction does not need to cut the wires (as happens in transformers). It will create a induced magnetic field that will tend to oppose to the change in the inducer field.

E_link = A·dB/dt

In order to emulate a movable generator into a motionless device it is necessary that the magnetic flux lines cut the induced wires. Therefore we should maximize the induction by flux cutting and minimize the induction by flux linking.

 Like poles facing each other: By changing the magnetic strength in both electromagnets (excited with the two opposite signals) the lines of force will repel and will leave the induction iron core. The sequential change in both currents will create a swing of the lines of force back and forth in each cycle, cutting the induced wires which surround the induced core.
 
 The features that will require this configuration are:

 Feature 1. Two north poles facing each other N-N in the electromagnets: With this set-up the magnetic field lines will leave the core inside-out. (Maybe two south poles will also work fine. I have just studied the N-N configuration)
 
 Feature 2. Excite with two opposite signals each electromagnet . It will achieve a  relative movement of the flux lines cutting the wire back and forth along the whole coil length from side (pole) to side (pole) (that we will name as coil thickness). One magnetic field is increasing and other magnetic field is decreasing, therefore no change in magnetic pressure between them will be created during this swinging motion.
 
 Feature 3. A rectangular shape in the electromagnets an in the induced coil in order to maximize the flux cutting induction and minimize the flux linking induction. The ratio of both effects will be increased with high values of the induced core perimeter and low values of coil area. This is a new feature which is fundamental for a optimized induction.
 
 ( E_cut / E_link ) = ( Coil_Perimeter · Coil_thickness) / Coil_Area

 
 Note that the flux linking induction is produced in the part of the coil linked by the inducer flux lines. This induction will produce a counter induced field (as usual). Therefore it is needed to minimize this flux linking effect. We need a ratio E_cut/E_link > 1  because the induction by flux cutting will be the one that won´t produce an opposite Lenz effect because this is a motionless device.
 

 Feature 4. As the flux cutting induction just happens in the zone where the lines are expelled from the core then we need that each turn will be cut during all the time. Therefore, it will be better to wind the induced coil with a tape instead of a wire (the tape must cover the whole coil thickness from side to side). With a tape all the turns will be cut all the time by the flux lines coming out the core. This will not happen with common wires. Tape winding will maximize the flux cutting induction and will minimize the induction by flux linking. I think that tape winding is mandatory for achieving a ratio well over 1.

 Conclusion: With this new features I think that this generator will be able to get a much higher induced current than the current used to excite the device. The Lenz effect in this configuration will reinforce (assist) the inducer field which is increasing at that moment in the corresponding electromagnet. This configuration will get the Lenz effect working to make a stronger field instead of making a weaker field, as normally happens.
 
 Please share your comments and ideas, and tell me if I have made any mistake in this reasoning.
 
 Regards,
 
 Hanon
 
 
 ANNEX  -  Equations
 
 
 E_cut= B·v·Length = B·v·N·Coil_perimeter
 
 v=Space/Time = Coil_Thickness/(1/2·Period)= Coil_Thickness·2·Frequency
 
 B=B1+B2 = constant =Bmax
 
 Frequency =1 / Period
 
 E_cut= Bmax·Coil_Thickness·2·Frequency·N·Coil_perimeter
 --------------
 
 E_link =N·Area·dB/dt
 
 dB/dt =(Bmax - Bmin)/(1/2·Period) = Bmax·2·Frequency
 
 E_link =Bmax·2·Frequency·Area·N
 ---------------
 
 E_total =E_cut - E_link = Bmax·2·Frequency·N·(Coil_Thickness·Coil_Perimeter - Area)


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May The Force Be With You. May The Force Assist You
« Reply #435 on: December 19, 2013, 10:11:21 PM »

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #436 on: December 20, 2013, 09:51:53 AM »
Now your getting somewhere Hanon. The tesla version uses ac.

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #437 on: December 20, 2013, 09:59:41 AM »
Side note,your second page showing the signal of the two inducers, some people will only view it from the output of the induced. IE the signals are in reality above the zero line from the view of current but sinusodal from the aspect of effect on the induced. Good luck trying to keep that straight in any conversation.

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #437 on: December 20, 2013, 09:59:41 AM »
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Offline Schiko

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #438 on: December 20, 2013, 04:46:09 PM »
@hanon

Only one question.
What is the phase of the input signals?
If it is 90 degrees in the machine Figuera, does not work. Try to see.
If it is 180 degrees, nothing changes. It is exactly the operation of the machine Figuera.
If 0 degrees, how do you propose will create a standing wave, you will have a gain, while the system is tuned but with a nonlinear load will not work very well.  :(
My question is, how do you go the junction of overlapping fields (> | <) to move from one side to another?
See, my question is for Figuera 1908 machine, and not to other patents. Before that, "Tesla's experts" appear explaining details.  ;D  :-X

Merry Christmas

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #439 on: December 20, 2013, 07:12:32 PM »
Hi,

The key is not thinking of phase... nor in creating standing waves... Both signals must operate in counterforce, when one increases the other decreases and the reverse, when the second increases the first decreases in magnetic strength. Make a test, join your palms and put then in front of you, now push more with the right one and less with the left one. The contact point should have moved to one side. Now make the opposite, push more with the left palm and less with the right one.

As you should note you are swinging your palms from one side to the other with very few effort if you do it rhythmically. The device works the same but with magnetic strength in each electromagnets to move the point where the lines of field are expelled from the core.

Both signals must be in opposition, and as remarked by Doug they must be always positive to avoid switching the poles.

Regards and merry Christmas !!

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #439 on: December 20, 2013, 07:12:32 PM »
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Offline Schiko

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #440 on: December 20, 2013, 09:14:30 PM »
Hi,

The key is not thinking of phase... nor in creating standing waves...

If I can't think of "phase", in which I'm going to think?
We're talking about physics and electronics here, no?
The 1908 machine, is an induction machine, right?
She has the behavior of a transformer, right?
She needs the induced field varies in order to work, right?
For the induced field vary he needs the electrical current varies, right?
If the electrical current varies, she creates a wave, right?
This wave at any given instant in time, has a "phase", right? or am I wrong?  :-[

Regards!

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #441 on: December 21, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »
Some aclarations about the pole orientation and the rectangular shape:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12439-re-inventing-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-24.html#post247198

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #441 on: December 21, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #442 on: December 21, 2013, 02:07:36 PM »
The internet is not the easiest way to communicate is it.lol
 Here is a drawn trace of all three coils in time. Im not a big fan of scopes hard to use a two dimensional image of three dimensional activity. This sort of what your looking for.

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #443 on: December 21, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »
The advantage is in the method of using the current to make a strong field and not asking the field to reverse polarity.Only to reduce in strength. There is only one source current which is shared by two inducers. Each inducer is controlled in two ways.The amount of current going to it and the time.

 Tesla's model is doing the same thing with the source being ac.

 What makes a electro magnet stronger? More wire turns,more current,better material. Current costs money for ever.More you use and or the longer you use it the more you pay. More current is not a good way to make a stronger magnet.
  The number of turns of wire results in a longer wire with higher losses. Who told you to use one wire? If they ment to say a longer wire or that length of wire was important part they would have come out and said that plain as day. What it says is more turns "N". More copper cost more money to but only once. When you have a long length of wire and it laps back and forth don't you expect the field around each wire to continue to act as it should? There are a lot of things I don't understand but i dont think going the opposite direction of what I want to go in will get me to a place very soon.
  Take a look at some battery operated lift magnets. Up to 11,000 lbs from a 12 volt battery. you have to scroll down the page to find the spec sheet. Now if you had two of these facing each other with a induction coil between them and rotated the current form one to the other and back so one is getting a little voltage say 3 or 4 volts while the other is at 8volt and smoothly reduce the 8 volt one while increasing the the lower one the point between the fields would shift back and forth. The flux of each pushing against the other the entire time. The two separate flux paths being opposing have a total potential difference of a single magnet being on at a full 12v at all times. The induced coil will react as if you were cutting the lines with rotation in a magnetic field that has 11,000 pounds of lift. while less practical and expensive to use two of these this way it's just to give you the image in your head hopefully. Subdividing this into several smaller magnets enables the induced coils to be wired up in series to reach a useful voltage.
 A wave yes, a cyclic wave no. Reversing magnetic domains wastes too much energy. Can you imagine getting your fingers between two of those magnets set up to attract each other? That would be a bad day.

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #443 on: December 21, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »
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Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #444 on: December 21, 2013, 05:07:03 PM »
Thanks Doug for your comment and sketch. Your analogy with two strong electromagnets is very interesting: how a 12 V battery may lift heavy weights. I still don´t get why you say to use more turns "N"  not in a conventional way. Are you refering to a torus electromagnet? Anyway, maybe it is a just a optimization. By now I would be happy in having a working unit. Optimization will come later.

 I have here another picture for Schiko in order to explain how the two opposite signals are.

Note that it is important to change the field intensity but you don´t need to reverse polarity. Maybe even it is mandatory to avoid reversing polarity, I am not sure. Therefore the opposite signals must be always above zero voltage.

Regards and merry Christmas!!


Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #445 on: December 22, 2013, 11:36:14 AM »
 The number of times the wire turns a turn round a core the greater number of linked flux paths it makes the magnetic field stronger. The length of wire adds resistance with length. The thinner the wire the worse it gets so keeping conductor length short and keeping turns count high can only be done with more conductors. Much more then a few. So that a very small current can make a much stronger magnetic field. Picture it like this, if I can determine the length of conductor based on it's resistance alone for example if 5 ft has nearly no Ir loss but after 5 ft it starts to climb up. Then I would limit the conductor length to 5 ft each. I find I need 3000 turns to reach a maximum flux density in my core at 12 volts. I have to take as many 5 ft lengths of conductor as it takes to make in total 3000 turns. Then I have to decide the best way to wind it or construct the core so I can wind it. There are lots of ways to wind it but what sticks in my head is that little phrase 'those skilled in the art of". Show me a working unit and I will bet that person is the one who is skilled. It's not the inventors problem if you lack the needed skills.
 Slapping on a birds nest of wire on a stick is not a skill except for the sake of argument.
 The amount of preasure between the inducer magnets is not known. Two magnets facing each other with the same sign pole faces will exert repelling force. What if it turns out to require hundreds of pounds of force to be maintained as the two fluxes move back and forth in the space of the induced? or thousands of pounds of force? How will you choose to make your magnet stronger? You can always make it weeker by reducing current if it is too strong nut after you wind it there is only one way left to increase it.More current.
  The drawn wave image I left you was to show all three coils/inducers and induced. The induced is the coil of the three which reaches below zero and into the negative side of the scale.

  Im going to have to send this part before the storm knocks out the power. At least I wont have to start over from scratch.

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #445 on: December 22, 2013, 11:36:14 AM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #446 on: December 22, 2013, 05:31:04 PM »
Forgot to answer this "    I still don´t get why you say to use more turns "N"  not in a conventional way. Are you refering to a torus electromagnet?"

   Any electro magnet.

Convention is ruled by economics. They have be able to make a lot of something quickly and cheaply in manufacturing. A 100.+ a plate meal does not come in a frozen box from wallwart. It's made to order with quality food. It most likely is not economical to build in a production setting.

  I found there is study of the electromagnetic field and it's effects on living organisms which has been going on for a good 20 yrs. They use field distortion to create large volumes of space that contain a uniform field. Aside from the health interests is the method to make the space large enough to have a meter size uniform flux that small animals or plants can be placed to perform the tests. Worthy of noting that there are some configurations already studied and measured for us to exploit to gain a better understanding of the orientation of the conductor groupings to yield a desired result. The paper I was looking at was more related to the equipment and how to organize a double blind study by using two spaces and a single power supply to operate both units at the same time. One makes a field the other cancels the field . Helmoltz Kirschvink 1992 pdf.
  Im contemplating there may be use in finding a way to concentrate the field to avoid leakage and to avoid one inducer completely over taking the opposite one magnetically. In order to prevent the activity of a common transformer where flux traverses the entire set. Once turned on it will be hard to determine if that is happening other then it wont be possible for it to self run. With the number of possible reason for failure it wouldnt hurt to consider some of them may be avoidable while giving some better insight to the type of coil winding required.

Offline Schiko

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #447 on: December 22, 2013, 10:10:47 PM »
@ hanon

Yes hanon now you got there !
Remember I built the machine , I know exactly how it works !
Remember also , my objective is to achieve self-running device.  ;D

Essas palavras são para você Hanon! A maquina de 1908 funciona exatamente como eu já coloquei aqui em postagens anteriores, ela funciona como um transformador de PULSOS já que a polaridade dos indutores não é invertida em relação ao induzido e com os pulsos defasados em 180º a transferência de energia é boa o único problema é que para atingir a máxima transferência de energia você tem que manter a frequência dos pulsos sintonizada com a ressonância das bobinas indutoras, se você fizer indutor e induzido na mesma proporção (1:1) o resultado é excelente.
Outra coisa, a maneira que você propõe, os indutores com a mesma face polar (N.N) ou (S.S) também funciona, mas só se você usar pulsos de 0º, ou seja, sinal exatamente igual nos dois indutores o que se torna mais fácil pois você só precisa de um sinal para alimentar os indutores e basta inverter a posição dos indutores em relação ao induzido para que eles fiquem com a mesma face polar apontadas para o mesmo.
Outra coisa importante é que o núcleo tem de ser fechado sobre si mesmo, de outra forma as perdas são muito grandes e a maquina não funciona bem.
O desenho que está na patente, tanto de Sr. Figuera como Buforn é só um esboço e não deve ser seguido ao "pé da letra" é apenas para se compreender os conceitos de funcionamento da maquina.
Espero que esta palavras ajudem na sua incansável busca...

ps:estou construindo um novo protótipo e poderemos discutir tudo que foi dito aqui.
grande abraço! Schiko

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #448 on: December 23, 2013, 12:19:23 AM »
Hi all,

In order to get this device running we need to use two unphased signals, one in each electromagnet.

I have found a system to generate two 90º unphased signals with a very simple method.

A Thomson Ring (in balance atraction-repsulsion) get in the secondary coil a current 90º unphased respect to  the primary current. Later we can take this signal into a diode bridge to rectify it and feed one electromagnet. We could get a signal identical to the last signals which is drawn in the picture from my previous post

http://sdsu-physics.org/physics180/physics196/Topics/faradaysLaw.html

We may get a transformer where the distance between coils could be adjustable in order to regulate the phase shift.

Welding machine: "The intensity control could be done by displacing the coil: It consists on moving away the primary and the secondary"

Link to a paper about the Thomson Ring http://www.journal.lapen.org.mx/march13/3_LAJPE_744_Guido_Pegna_preprint_corr_f.pdf

Any comments? Please tell me if you think that this method could work properly. Thanks

Regards

Offline Schiko

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #449 on: December 23, 2013, 01:05:54 AM »
@hanon
hanon if you insist on phase 90 degrees will not get nowhere.
The transfer of energy is very low when the waves are at 90 degrees.
Again I repeat, we are talking about the 1908 patent.
It's so easy to get two delayed signals for testing ... try!  8)

Regards

ps:you have a scope? if not. I post link program that simulates a scope and signal generator that you can use for your tests.
If you want just talk. is freeware.
and how the machine works at low frequencies will work just fine!

 

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