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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1611035 times)

Offline NRamaswami

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Marathonman:

I apologize if I miscommunicated. I only intended to say how businesses operate. Technology is different business and politics are different. I was only pointing out that info on this type of devices are not available only due to the reasons. I do not lecture and I apologize if I miscommunicated.

Farmhand.. You are not answering the basic question. Electricity is energy and energy can be converted from one form to another form and we know all this but why is the rotating field and conducting material combination needed to generate electricity. What does the conductor do? Why a non conducting material would not produce electricity.. This is a fundamental question and if the books do not answer that, it is a different issue. What we have is an observation that when conductors are placed in a rotating magnetic field or time varying magnetic field, electricity is induced in the conductor..Voltage of the electricity so produced is based on the number of times the conductor is looped as a coil. But why conducting material alone does this and why a non conducting material would not do the same thing..

So this is the fundamental question I want an answer..If books do not answer let us then understand that we have not studied it..I have so many material scientists and I think it has been studied well and this is why we have different types of cores and different types of rare earth magnets. But definitely some thing happens inside the atomic structure of the conductors and that contributes to the electricity generation. The key to devices that generate more energy than input mechanical force may be present there..Perhaps one of the keys..May be we have several solutions and since we have a large industrial base which is based only on one solution either we have not gone and thought about it or implemented it.. solutions appear to be present but we have no information. Daniel McFarland cook patent, Figuera, Hubbard, Hendershot, Moray  you name it and we do not have any clear information. Moray's device is particularly demonstrated so many times and then destroyed and we have no information on it. These people might have asked the basic fundamental question I'm asking and might have found the answer and then build the devices..But still we are not able to answer the fundamental question..This is what I wanted to suggest. My boys are on leave this week end and so I could not do any experiment. I'm sorry.



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Offline bajac

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I was referring to Figuera's 1908 and later patents.


I agree that the 1902 patent is incomplete. It does not show the configuration of the induced coils which makes it suspicious. Incomplete patent applications are not accepted by any office. A required condition is that the concept shall be provided with sufficient details to allow its implementation by a person with skill in the art. I believe the original 1902 patent application was complete and that it was tampered with by the bankers who purchased it.


I have also read more pages from the Buforn patents and I have the idea that Figuera made a mistake by trusting this guy. I picture Buforn's profile as a greedy business man who did not have Figuera's intellect. I have to thank him though for adding information that I think that I think was originated from Figuera, such as the statement that the dynamos do not convert mechanical work into electrical power.


Then, Buforn made a terrible job by writing extensively about the Sun, atmospheric influence in electric phenomena, etc., to validate the operation of the Figuera's device. It seems to me that Buforn was trying to say that if Tesla's ideas of radiant electricity is true, then it also is the Figuera's generator, which he was trying to rename it as "BUFORN'S ELECTRIC SYSTEM PRODUCTION." That is, Buforn tried to steal Figuera's work.


Buforn's later patents included information that I am sure Mr. Figuera would had never approved. I strongly believe that the last patent (application #57955) showing the Figuera's generator sharing the primaries electromagnets was not his idea. First of all, that device is nothing new because it uses the same Figuera's concept, and second, it should have lower performance and more critical adjustment of the parameter making it less stable because of a higher probability of cross talking between the primary electromagnets.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 10:48:18 PM by bajac »

Offline dieter

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But in 1902, they had to present a working device to get the patent granted. They also had to deliver complete plans, but the patent was given before anyone could try to reproduce it, I assume. Figuera patented it, this gave him the evidence about that it really worked, then he offered it to the bankers, or maybe they had their spies in the patent office and contacted him?


It could also be that Figuera had bought the guys from the patent office so they would confess the device was working. I don't say I don't believe in the possibility of a working device, just listing the options. In fact, I am pretty sure it was working.

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Offline bajac

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Because the invention was sold in less than a week after the patent was awarded, there is no doubt in my mind that the business transaction was taken place much earlier.
Like today, the bankers of the time had heavy investments in the oil markets and were important members of the oil cartel. They have always had control and/or great influence in the government, military, and of course the patent office. Today, the USPTO has a special unit to detect and prevent any "special" application related to free energy from reaching the public. Therefore, it should be not a surprise that the patent 1902 is incomplete.
If you have any idea how banks make their businesses, you should have not doubt that the 1902 device worked. Could you think that the bankers would have paid so much money (at the time) for a device that did not work?

Offline dieter

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If he fooled them, he wouldn't have had such a carrieer. They would have found out in 1903, maybe 1904.


Ok, I have a technical issue:  Imagine a horeshoe magnet (U shape) that has a steelbar attached to its end, so it builds a closed magnetic loop. Imagine around the steel bar there's a coil. Now when I connect the coils ends, aka short-circuit it, it will create an inductive load. Assuming this is a permanent horseshoe magnet, does adding the load reduce the permeability of the steel bar?


Thanks.

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Offline NRamaswami

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A patent can be filed without any detailed description and diagram and it is filed only to get a priority date. That does not require full disclosure. This is called provisional patent application.

Figuera filed four provisional patent applications. If it is not followed by a complete specification within 12 to15 months, the patent would be deemed abandoned. The banks after purchasing the patent, did not file any thing. They simply abandoned all of them. At that time the requirement was not to give full and particular description so that another person skilled in the art is enabled to replicate the patent without undue experimentation.  The requirement was a reasonable description and then a working prototype which is similar to the description.

The last of the Buforn patent contains a lot of information that in general view can be considered nonsense. It may well be the most important patent.

All of Figueras patents patent and devices are based on one single principle...Not theory..Understanding is different implementation is different..

The principle as I understand is this..

An induction motor works because the RPM of rotor is less the RPM of Rotating magnetic field created by the current supplied to it. It then has Torque. If the rotor were to be rotated faster than the RPM of the rotating magnetic field of current supplied, induction motor becomes induction generator. This requires application of additional mechanical energy not only to rotate the rotor but also to overcome the opposing forces due to Lenz Law..

Similarly if the secondary of a transformer is made to have a higher speed for the rotating magnetic field that of the primary inductor rotating magnetic field, the transformer would become a generator. It is an extremeply simple  principle ... This is what he has done in this device..That is the problem to be solved here..So he kept it as secret by wording things without disclosing how the devices are arranged and what is the pole orientation. Even more Amazingly the drawings show that the only 50% of the primary had the iron core and secondary which had iron core all over it had a gap between the primary and secondary where the iron core was exposed to air..What is the arrangment of Poles. It is certainly North - x secondary- South of the core or South -x secondary-North of the core..Just see the drawing. Is it possible to make the secondary to be wound ccw while the primary is CW.. Then why half of primary is empty.. why so much core was exposed to air..That is what we are all not able to agree and understand.

Amazingly Bankers control every thing.. In India it is usury if one individual were to give a loan to another person at any thing above 18%. But this is not applicable to banks. Banks charge on the credit cards 47% per year..and they try to keep the person indebted all the time..A banker would not pay a single penny, paisa to another person unless they get value for their money. It is in their blood. I think I have a fair idea now..

Gyula I need your help..What is magnetic flux cancellation.. I'm not able to understand it.. Please clarifiy..And what is addition of magnetic fluxes and how do these both are done and please give  me examples.

I'm still reading a book by Howard Johnson who created the permanent magnet motor and Howard Johnson says that the Magnetic flux created by like poles facing each other is three times greater than the opposite poles facing each other..This is what Doug has also said and I tried it without any success. But Johnson is also saying what Dough has said and gives experimental data to support it..I'm completely foxed. There is some mistake here.. Possibly the pole configuration is NS-SN-NS  There is no difference to what Doug said but the arrangment is reversal of secondary..I will check it and report. 


Offline bajac

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The banks after purchasing the patent, did not file any thing. They simply abandoned all of them.
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If this is the case, then, a published patent application that is abandoned becomes part of the public domain and can not be enforced, which makes it free for the taken. It does not sound right. Why would the Banks paid so much money for a patent that they would not have been able to control or legally prevent someone from using it or selling it? I think it is more likely that the bankers tampered with the patent from inside the office before it was published.



Quote
At that time the requirement was not to give full and particular description so that another person skilled in the art is enabled to replicate the patent without undue experimentation.  The requirement was a reasonable description and then a working prototype which is similar to the description.


From the beginning, the main goal of the patent system has been to promote innovation and stimulate the economy by benefiting inventors and the public. It benefits the inventors by giving them a 20 years monopoly to make money out of the inventions. And, it also benefits the public after the expiration of the 20 years by allowing competition which brings prices down. It also does not sound right if the patent system allows and awards patents to applications that none one can replicate and the owners can maintain a monopoly indefinitely.


Quote
The last of the Buforn patent contains a lot of information that in general view can be considered nonsense. It may well be the most important patent.
I disagree with that but I know this patent will make a lot of people happy who believe that the 1908 patent is incomplete and requires capacitors, grounded electrodes, oscillation systems, etc.

Quote
All of Figueras patents patent and devices are based on one single principle...Not theory..Understanding is different implementation is different..
I totally disagree with this statement. The 1902 and 1908 patents work on different methods (that you call principles). I already described these two methods in a previous post.

Quote
An induction motor works because the RPM of rotor is less the RPM of Rotating magnetic field created by the current supplied to it. It then has Torque. If the rotor were to be rotated faster than the RPM of the rotating magnetic field of current supplied, induction motor becomes induction generator. This requires application of additional mechanical energy not only to rotate the rotor but also to overcome the opposing forces due to Lenz Law..
I agree with this statement, which is just the classical explanation. But, recall that these motors and generators are built according to specific and approved standards. For example, in United States these machines are specified and built using IEEE and NEMA standards. The benefits of using the standards is that their simplified mathematical models can be used to design and built these electrical machines. If you deviate from these standards you will need to use an analytic process based on electromagnetic waves and electric power theories. However, using these standards is what makes these machines (transformers, motors, generators) inefficient by forcing the output power to be lower than the input power. And then, because the engineering books are written around these standards, they make you believe that the overunity phenomena is an impossible event. This is the reason why these standards do not apply to machines such as Figuera's.

Quote
Similarly if the secondary of a transformer is made to have a higher speed for the rotating magnetic field that of the primary inductor rotating magnetic field, the transformer would become a generator. It is an extremeply simple  principle ... This is what he has done in this device..That is the problem to be solved here..So he kept it as secret by wording things without disclosing how the devices are arranged and what is the pole orientation. Even more Amazingly the drawings show that the only 50% of the primary had the iron core and secondary which had iron core all over it had a gap between the primary and secondary where the iron core was exposed to air..What is the arrangment of Poles. It is certainly North - x secondary- South of the core or South -x secondary-North of the core..Just see the drawing. Is it possible to make the secondary to be wound ccw while the primary is CW.. Then why half of primary is empty.. why so much core was exposed to air..That is what we are all not able to agree and understand.
This is a very confusing paragraph. There are not rotating magnetic fields in transformers. You do get a rotating magnetic field in the 3-phase stators of motors and generators due to a specific configuration of the stator winding. In transformers, the transformation is due to a changing or alternating magnetic field. To my knowledge alternating and rotating magnetic fields are not the same.
We need to be very careful when we say "an extremely simple principle." Simplicity can become complicated based on the level of details used as a reference.
I do not understand the rest of the paragraph. Specifically, what Figuera's device are you referring to? I strongly recommend to show sketches of the configuration you are referring to. Include as much details as you can such as magnetic field, etc. A picture is worth 1000 words.

Quote
Amazingly Bankers control every thing.. In India it is usury if one individual were to give a loan to another person at any thing above 18%. But this is not applicable to banks. Banks charge on the credit cards 47% per year..and they try to keep the person indebted all the time..A banker would not pay a single penny, paisa to another person unless they get value for their money. It is in their blood. I think I have a fair idea now..
I am really surprised. I do not understand how India can afford any economic growth with such a high interest rate. I am sorry to hear it because I have a lot of friends from India.

Quote
... and Howard Johnson says that the Magnetic flux created by like poles facing each other is three times greater than the opposite poles facing each other...
This phenomena is usually explained graphically in the books. For example, look at the figures for like and unlike poles in this webpage: http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/electromagnetism/magnetism.html 
and pages 4 and 5 of this PDF http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/cymbalyuk/lecture21.pdf


The magnetic field of unlike poles fuse together as a magnetic line from the north pole will connect (become) one with a magnetic line of the south pole. That is , there is a continuation of the magnetic line from one pole to the other. On the other hand, the magnetic field of like poles will repel  and compress each other one next to the other. The more you force the two like poles together the more magnetic line are compressed in a smaller space resulting in a higher magnetic density.


Whenever I need to learn about something new, I usually buy the books with a lot of sketches and figures. I really hate the books that only have text and equations. They are not good for learning as opposed to the books with sufficient visual aid. These books are more expensive because it takes more time and resources to make them. For example, see this PDF document: http://www.physics.ucf.edu/~roldan/classes/Chap27_PHY2049.pdf ( Notice the difference?)


Lastly, I normally do not have (and do not spend) so much time writing a post. However, I see that you have a good attitude and high motivation for learning. It is admirable.


Bajac




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Offline dieter

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 l googled without success, so I repeat my question: does an inductive load alter the permeability of the core material?


I am not talking about heat that may be caused by induction and then has an impact on the permeability. I also don't mean the influence of voltage drop by a load. What I mean is, is there something like a reverse lorentz force that is a counterforce against the elementary magnet particles as the cost of induction.


I tried to test it with a magnet loop that had a core with a coil as the botton side, hanging in the air. The core was attracted only slightly, as little as possible. Short circuit of the coil did not make it fall off, a little pulse from a 1.5V battery did (only in one polarity of the battery). But I'm not sure if that means much.

Offline forest

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You don't need books to find that like poles push harder then opposite poles attract. You need just two magnets with a hole in center and a piece of wood rod.  ;D  If you stick rod to the wall and glue one magnet to the wall then you can measure whatever you like.Simple like that.

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Offline NRamaswami

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BajaC:

I thank you very much for your kind word and I'm obliged.

We are now living in an information age. Situation in 1902 and 1910 is total lack of information. Information is very hard to come by.

In 199/97, Indian Patent Office Branch at Chennai had only one Computer. We cannot get any information as Patent Journals had only titles, names of inventors and in rare cases abstracts of patents filed. And it would take months to get a complete specification of a patent already published. Now it is not so. At that time 93% of patents filed in India are from overseas clients only.

Secondly you are thinking that if a patent is filed and then not followed up it comes in to the public juris automatically. It does not. A provisional patent application is never published. It remains secret and will be abandoned and will not be publised if a complete specification is not filed within 12 months. So the best choice for the bank that bought the Figuera patent was to abandon the application..The only person with knowledge of that invention Figuera has been paid off and cannot disclose and cannot compete. So it is as good as highly classified secret. Except for your efforts and for the efforts of Hanon no body would have heard about Figuera. So we do not get to know any thing about any other invention.  It is probably a mistake of the Spanish patent office to have allowed Hanon to view the archives or probably there is a law as to when the provisional applications that are not followed up can be deemed to come in to public domain in Spain. Ok. This is why we have no information about others. Thanks to Buforn we have information about the 1908 patent becuase he obtained the patent, demonstrated it and maintained it. In my view, Buforns statements are accurate. I beg to disagree with you on this point.

You can easily see this. Earth is a highly charged massive body that keeps rotating. A body that rotates must come to a stop unless energy is continuously supplied to it like an electric motor receivng electricity. A rotating charged body sends electricity either from the circumference to the center or from the center to the circumference. Now we do not feel this current. We are acclimatized to it. But from where does the Earth gets its energy to continuously rotate? Solar radition and cosmic radiation. The atmosphere is full of electricity. It is seen from lightenings. So Buforn is stating his views. Simply because it does not fit in to the academic texts it does not mean he is wrong. Polar light discharges in polar regions are believed to have millions of amperes and voltage. They have to spread out in the atmosphere. Never mind we cannot perceive it. We do not see air also. But we keep breathing air..Atmosphere is full of electricity is a fact. If we make a device that can interact or act as a medium between Earth and atmosphere it can produce a lot of energy. Tesla coils are one such examples.   

Regarding the transformers, I apologize for the miscommunication but the core concept is simple.

If the secondary of the transformer is made to function at a higher frequency than the primary, the secondary would produce more power..It will then become a kind of an induction generator. It is a question of increasing the frequency of the secondary..Is it doable..I do not know..But if it can be done, then we have a device that can produce more output than input.

While the magnetic flux is higher when like poles face each other, they apparantly tend to cancel each other out. But let me test one more possible configuration and then confirm to you.

Thanks for the links and I will study them.. I'm very obliged. In India we do have a big problem which is not being acknowledged nor being reported. Banks have stopped given  personal loans and every small business is hit. I have clients all over India and from 23 other countries and most Indian businesses small and medium ones are now having big difficulty. 


Offline forest

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NRamaswami

I completely agree with you on that topic. Someone need a fresh look of what is happening to realize that rotation of Earth cannot be a passive action due to some starting point in very ancient times. Energy must be supplied continously to rotate such a mass and there is a big chance it is not gravity source. Interactions between planets should very fast stop or disturb that constant rotation if it is passive. Somebody should compute the total energy required for Earth to rotate as today, but that require detailed knowledge of internal structure of Earrth. Very rough computation shows incredible billions of joules per single man on Earth. Drop it to like 1MW per man and I think we could be in safe margin. Except who need 1MW ?  :o
To summarise : constant rotation prove active character of force, small disturbances may indicate reaction to other planets disturbances; also if somebody could find an space object (planet, start etc) which do not rotate and yet has strong gravitation that would be another proof.

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Offline gyulasun

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Hi Dieter,

You wrote: 

Quote
  Imagine a horeshoe magnet (U shape) that has a steelbar attached to its end, so it builds a closed magnetic loop. Imagine around the steel bar there's a coil. Now when I connect the coils ends, aka short-circuit it, it will create an inductive load. Assuming this is a permanent horseshoe magnet, does adding the load reduce the permeability of the steel bar?   

You also wrote:

Quote
  does an inductive load alter the permeability of the core material? 


Sorry but I do not fully understand the setup in which you ask on any change of the core permeability... 

It is okay that you close the magnetic path between the poles of a horse magnet with a steel bar which has a coil around it. No moving and no any input current to the coil from you, you mean this, right?  If yes, then nothing is happening to the permeability of the steel bar when you short the coil ends directly,  the permanent magnet has a static field almost fully concentrated and guided in the steel bar. This field coming from the magnet does not change from the moment on you have attached the steel bar: before you attach,  the bar has (say) a permeability of 800 and after closing the magnetic path it may have a permeability of (say) 500 or whatever less than the original 800, okay?  The decrease comes about just due to some saturation what the permanent magnet initiates, depending on its strength and depending on the magnetic properties of the steel core.

IF you monitor the output voltage of the coil on the steel bar with a scope or an AC volt or current meter, you would see a pulse appearing at the coil output in the moment you attach the bar to the magnet (i.e. you close the magnetic path). This is a SINGLE event, nothing is induced after that if you do not make any change.  And the moment you remove the bar from horse shoe magnet, you would again see a single pulse from the coil, again this is a SINGLE pulse.

So in this setup as I understood your description, the coil on the steel bar does not alter the permeability of the bar, just because there is nothing happening induction-wise.

If this answers your question, that is fine. If not, sorry and please clarify your question.

Gyula

Offline NRamaswami

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Hi Forest:

Thanks for the post agreeing with me. If you need further proof ask the Indian and Chinese PLA who see eye ball to eye ball in Sikkim. One Retired Indian Army officer has written a book where he says that come afternoon what both armies do is to go and sit in their bunkers for it is routine for the place on a daily basis to get hit with thunder and lightening bolts that rattles the whole area. So the eye ball to eye ball soldiers promptly go to their bunkers during those times..Similarly we can use a thermoeletric effect togenerate any amount of electricity by putting thermoeletric materials 2000 to 3000 meteres to sea. Water in sea at that depth is very cold and water at the surface is warm. The thermoelectricity devices would produce electricity automatically. This is a free energy device. Only problem is maintaing the metals and avoiding corrossion due to sea water which can corrode any thing..We have not even touched the tip of the ice berg in energy production.


BajaC:

I went through the links http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/electromagnetism/magnetism.html and the http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/cymbalyuk/lecture21.pdf

I now realize why contrary to expectations the electricity produced when like poles are made to face other is zero. As Dieter said, the electricity produced is nil, nada, zilch and not even a milivolt. I did better by geting a 12 volt lamp to light up but I gave 1540 watts of input to get that 12 volts and milliamps output in secondary.

A simple look at the links you have provided indicates the answer.

The iron should bent at 90' angle to the like poles and should go in four directions. Then the magnetic flux would be captured in the four poles which are perpendicular to the primary magnets. At that time we possibly will have a higher output due to increased magnetic flux. I can test a two softiron cores at 90' to the primary. As magnetic flux goes through the easiest path, then I think it should work. If we show a common secondary it would not work for like poles whereas it would work properly for unlike poles. It is so elementary.

let me do the tests and confirm it to you tomorrow. We have a winner here for if the magnetic flux is three times and the output is three times we can immediately increase the output of the secondary by 3 times from what it is now..So let me check. The configuration of Figuera however indicates that it is only unlike poles and not like poles. and the core in the secondary and the primary is a continuous one in all the 1908 and subsequent patents.

Let me test it tomorrow and confirm it to you all.

Offline bajac

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l googled without success, so I repeat my question: does an inductive load alter the permeability of the core material?


I am not talking about heat that may be caused by induction and then has an impact on the permeability. I also don't mean the influence of voltage drop by a load. What I mean is, is there something like a reverse lorentz force that is a counterforce against the elementary magnet particles as the cost of induction.


I tried to test it with a magnet loop that had a core with a coil as the botton side, hanging in the air. The core was attracted only slightly, as little as possible. Short circuit of the coil did not make it fall off, a little pulse from a 1.5V battery did (only in one polarity of the battery). But I'm not sure if that means much.


Dieter,


I do not quite understand what you are referring to. That is why I keep saying to use sketches and diagrams as a way to provide details. Because we are not good writers, it is very difficult to construct an accurate scenario of our cases.


I would like to say something about permeability and magnetic fields. Magnetic circuits are very difficult to analyze because they are not linear. It requires trial-and-error and graphical solutions to approximate the answers. For example, the permeability of the iron/steel cores depends on the magnitude of the magnetic field flowing inside. That is, the permeability of an iron core, i.e., having a magnetic flux of 3 Gauss is different than when 6 Gauss are flowing. This makes the analysis of magnetic circuits very complicated.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 05:02:17 PM by bajac »

Offline dieter

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Gyulasun, Bajac, thank you for your answer. You are right, only changes in the magnetic field will induce a voltage in a coil. We can assume that the electron charge distribution is static like the magnetic field. So my example probably has not been very good.


Let me put it this way: During the change of the magnetic field in the core, (regardless of heat effects) will there be  a diffrence in the permeability of the core , depending on whether the coil has no load or full load (like a short circuit) ?




NRamaswami, actually this is a misunderstanding. Like poles can induce a current, even better than opposite poles. The reason why is, they are two poles that can be compressed in space. If you watch two cylinder magnets attached to eachother naturally (nsns) then the inner poles vanish and become mostly the new bloch wall, the outer poles get a bit stronger. On the other hand, if you tape two cylinder magnets together like snns, the field between them becomes 200% in intensity. This inner field may not be bigger than the two outer fields of the nsns magnets added together, but in a practical use it allows to gain higher field density in a certain area. Although, some magnets cannot handle like poles very well and their magnetisation will be destroyed,because their remenance is low.

 

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