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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1572112 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #600 on: February 15, 2014, 03:16:33 PM »
This is actually a punch to me really. Earlier in posts Farmhand has claimed that a device cannot produce more output than input. Now you provide the proof that a device can provide more output than input. Why don't you show a video of your 30000 watts output transformer in youtube video for a 75 watts input..for the benefit of poor souls like me. Since it is your claim you can demonstrate it.
There is nothing special about making more Watts at peak output than input, because POWER IS NOT ENERGY. Ask Farmhand, he has devices too that produce more peak power output than they use as input, by far. He knows that these devices are not overunity and cannot "self sustain" or be "self-looped". Naive measurements -- such as are likely to be performed by patent examiners who are not physicists or electrical engineers -- will see the peak power levels and believe that some "energy" amplification is happening, when actually it is nothing of the sort.

You want to see some video demonstrations of power amplification? You, who mention Tesla's name in your posts? Take a look at my YT channel.

But let's start simple, shall we? Here's a transformer working without any metal, iron or otherwise, in the core or anywhere nearby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6uQUxC7DS8

So that's one of your silly claims put to rest, right there.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #601 on: February 15, 2014, 03:18:46 PM »
Regarding your challenge, I can easily take the 18 layer quadfilar test and show it. I don't understand why it happens..But the magnet that is made is very powerful.

I will also demonstrate the Figuera device.

I understand that compared to you my knowledge is very little in this field but the results can be replicated easily. I would appreciate if you show the 75 watts input 30000 watts output transformer in a video to all of us. I would be very obliged.

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #602 on: February 15, 2014, 03:43:31 PM »
Hi NRamaswami,

Please don't enter in the game initiated by Tinsekoala. This user is the first time that participate into this thread...what a coincidence... You are just sharing your empirical results...if someone don't want to understand this it is not our problem. Just ignore those users...As Don Quixote said :"Dogs are barking, therefore we are getting closer"

Keep on testing and doing a good work, and avoid going into these dirty games

Best regards and good luck!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #602 on: February 15, 2014, 03:43:31 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #603 on: February 15, 2014, 03:47:35 PM »
If you honestly show your 18-layer thing and your measurements, we can figure out why you are getting the results you think you are getting. I assure you... magnets, no matter how strong, do not "eat" electricity. However a large inductor like you are describing can definitely present a high impedance to an AC power supply, which would prevent a series light bulb from lighting perceptibly under some conditions. Did you measure the current through your device with a proper instrument, or are you simply relying on your visual judgement of the brightness of the bulb? I think I already know the answer to that question.

Now... before we go any further, please acknowledge that you are wrong about transformers requiring iron or magnetizable metal in order to operate.



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #604 on: February 15, 2014, 03:50:44 PM »
Hi NRamaswami,

Please don't enter in the game initiated by Tinsekoala. This user is the first time that participate into this thread...what a coincidence... You are just sharing your empirical results...if someone don't want to understand this it is not our problem. Just ignore those users...As Don Quixote said :"Dogs are barking, therefore we are getting closer"

Keep on testing and doing a good work, and avoid going into these dirty games

Best regards and good luck!!
So then, I guess that user "hanon" also believes that transformers need iron cores to work, that they can be prevented from working by wrapping in copper and plastic, that magnets eat electricity, that an Amplidyne is self sustaining....  but instead of providing evidence, he chooses to attack me personally instead !!

What a hoot you people are. This is better than watching daytime television, for sure!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #604 on: February 15, 2014, 03:50:44 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #605 on: February 15, 2014, 04:04:36 PM »
I went through your video.. It is an air core Tesla coil. Did you convert the voltage increased to usable power? There is no indication that for 75 watts input that it produced 30000 watts output but I agree that if the voltage increases the amperage should also increase.

Please see this http://www.physiotherapyequipment.in/short-wave-diathermy.html

It is a physiotherapy equipment used in India and even a fused out tubelight will be lit brightly if we show it six inches above the condenser pads..The pads radiate out waves in radio frequency and that heats the gases of the tube light and even if it is fused out would glow brightly.

1. Contrary to a Tesla coil, Figuera used iron core and the results are not peak output but sustained output. I say this for we have used the primary, in another experiment, not as electromagnets but to power the lamps. 10x200 watts lamps and the secondary was able to light up to 5x200 watts lamps. This was done for tests and for safety considerations. However the combined output in this case is less than the input.

2. It is only when we make the primary work like electromagnets we get more output than input and I believe that is sustained one. I will do the tests and then I will inform you. If the results are negative also I would inform you.

In the system on the para marked 1,  I think that there is a variable frequency driver controller circuit used in wind turbines and Alternators and if it is used in the system as described the voltage in the primary would not drop and the usable output would be more than the input. But I need to check and test them.

I find that Figuera's statement and Buforn's statement that electricity comes from interactions of atmosphere and earth to be correct on experimental basis. So I believe them. Of course they are more than 100 years old. I believe that the Tesla coil secondary also is earthed at one end and the increased output is due to using high frequency and connecting between the atmosphere and earth. But I have not built or experimented with a tesla coil. So I really cannot comment.

I will take a minimum of two weeks to come back. I'm not loaded with cash and I have to put in my own money to do these tests and report. But I will come back and you can see for yourself.

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #606 on: February 15, 2014, 04:13:41 PM »
I will need to agree with you on Transformers if you consider Tesla coil to be a transformer. By Transformers I meant commonly used transformers and did not consider Tesla coil which outputs high voltage and cannot be used to generate usable power. To my limited knowledge.

We have used an Electrician, voltmeter, ammeter, and a multimeter and no voltage showed up in the primary. The current used was AC as you rightly describe. The iron rods have high impedance again. But the magnetism was enormous but there was no power to the lamps. Not even a single volt..That was the amazing thing..How an electromagnet can block about 2000 watts of power from getting through the wires wound around it is not understandable by me.

The results are perfect. And I do not cheat and I do not have the kind of your knowledge and so I do not intend to teach or pretend to teach.

Your language is very strong and so Hanon feels agitated. I take it in a friendly way and am not disturbed for I only report the factual findings here so others can also benefit. Nothing more. I do not know any one here and I do not know people personally and do not take things personally.

I apologize for any miscommunication and let us carry on. But give me a break for two weeks. And try to replicate the results and check for yourselves.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #606 on: February 15, 2014, 04:13:41 PM »
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Offline Newton II

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #607 on: February 15, 2014, 05:04:55 PM »
Power is defined as "rate of work done"

Think that you have 100 Joules of stored energy.  You can dissipate it as 10 Joules in 10 seconds (power is 10 Watts), 100 Joules in            1 second (power is 100 Watts), 1000 Joules in 0.1 seconds (power is 1000 Watts), 10,000 Joules in 0.01 seconds (power is 10,000 Watts) and so on ...

In all the above instances if you multiply watts with time,  you will get energy as 100 Joules which is conserved.

A simple example  -  If you connect 3 Watts bulbs 100 nos. in parallel to a battery,  the battery dries out quickly delivering 300 Watts.  But if you connect just one 3 Watts bulb, the battery retains its charge for a very long time delivering just 3 watts.

I think this is just high school physics and no electrical engineering is involved in this.



Offline gyulasun

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #608 on: February 15, 2014, 06:04:52 PM »

...  We got 630 volts and 20 amps in the Ammeter at no load. Since this was way too high for us we stopped. We need to build a transformer to step down the voltage to around 200 volts and then give it to the load lamps to check. Secondly I have had
50 Amps Ammeters burning out after showing 50 amps at no load. I would not believe that there was amps at no load if the Ammeters had not burned out..
...


Hi NRamaswami,

Would like to ask on your 20 Amper output current measurement you performed on the secondary with 'no load'.  I guess that you connected the Ampermeter directly across the secondary coil,  actually measuring the "short circuited output current" of the secondary coil, was this so?  If yes, then you actually had a load: it was the inner resistance (impedance) of your Ampermeter, ok?

But then your earlier measured 630V voltage (which I assume was measured across the open secondary coil) was divided between the secondary coil's inner impedance and the inner resistance (impedance) of the Ampermeter: these two impedances were in series from the 630V induced emf point of view and you can surely understand that due to the voltage divison across the series impedances,  the bigger part of the 630V induced emf remained inside the secondary coil (and got lost as heat as in any generator) and only a smaller part of it remained for the Ampermeter which was willy-nilly the 'load'.  This is because an Ampermeter has a much less inner resistance (impedance) in the 20-50 Amper range than your described secondary coil impedance has.

So what I mean here is that your output power cannot be calculated by multiplying the 630V with the 20A if your ampermeter was indeed used to short circuit the secondary coil. 

Perhaps a possible solution to step down the 630V output voltage is to use 3 identical off-the-shelf 220V step down mains transformers and connect their primary coils in series, and also connect their secondaries either in series or parallel as need arises.

OF course the simplest solution would be to use less number of turns for the Figuera secondary coil so that it can output less than 630V.

ONE more thing I would like to ask: did you monitor the input current when you were measuring the 20 Amper 'no load' current in the secondary coil?  I.e. did you use an Ampermeter also in the primary coil between one of the input mains wire and one of the primary coil input wire? I am curious how the input current changed (if it changed, that is) when nothing was attached to your secondary coil and then you attached the Ampermeter to the secondary?
Putting this otherwise: how the Figuera transformer behaves for a short across its secondary?  (here I assume the Ampermeter shorted the secondary coil)

Thanks,  Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #608 on: February 15, 2014, 06:04:52 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #609 on: February 15, 2014, 06:33:34 PM »
The secondary was not shorted. It was kept open. Not connected to the load. We kept it open to check what is the voltage. We expected high voltage but did not expect the Ammeter to show the Amps and did not expect to see such high voltage. So we immediately switched off.

Both Primary and secondary had voltmeter and Ammeter connected separately to them. This why we are able to say what is the input voltage and amperage and what is the output voltage and amperage. Input voltage is 220 volts and 7 amps. Output is 630 volts and 20 amps. We need to put a step down transformer to see that the output is not peak output as it happens when we switch on or switch off but sustained output.

We have tried to reduce the input voltage and lower the input voltage, lower is the efficiency of the device.  If we reduced the turns of the secondary as you say we could check what is the amperage in the secondary but my feeling is that lower the voltage in the secondary, lower would be the amperage. Doubling the voltage would quadruple the amperage is something that we read about secondary output. So if we reduce the turns to reduce the secondary voltage, we may not increase the amperage in the secondary. The system has to increase both voltage and amperage but then must be stepped down using a powerful step down transformer that can take up to 100 to 200 amps. That would be costly and would need to be custom built. 

My guess is that Figuera drawings are showing 7 different modules the result of first one feeding to the second and the second one feeding to the third and so on.

Probably then the rotary device was intended only for the first module with the rest of the other modules not being shown by him.

I had given 12 volts and 16 amps to the module also and found very little increase in the output. Unless we increase the input voltage, the secondary does not perform.

Power given in Watts matter but of that power Voltage must be at least 20 times higher than the Amperage for the device to show efficiency in the secondary. Since magnetic field strength depends on number of turns multiplied by amperage, there needs to be a reasonable amperage for the device to work. If the 20:1 minimum ratio for the input voltage and amperage is not there, we do not have any results.

If we give high amperage low voltage, magnetism is high but the resulting induced electricity is not high. If we give the same wattage with high voltage and lower amperage combination the resulting secondary performs well. I do not know why again....But this is the result we got..Probably the induced emf is higher when the input voltage is higher. I have read that we can increase the frequency of the current for a low amperage to get a high induced emf  and secondary output and probably the rotary device of Figuera by producing sparks achieved that as well. I do not know. Sparks have high frequency I guess.

The frequency used was the mains frequency of 50 Hz only..We did not give high frequency. Plain simple normal mains AC was directly used to generate the electromagnet.

We will build the device again and add a step down transformer and then would inform you all. But it will take 2 to 3 weeks depending on my workload. Thanks and will post my replies only next week. Until then please bear with me.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #610 on: February 15, 2014, 06:59:57 PM »

....
Both Primary and secondary had voltmeter and Ammeter connected separately to them. This why we are able to say what is the input voltage and amperage and what is the output voltage and amperage. Input voltage is 220 volts and 7 amps. Output is 630 volts and 20 amps. We need to put a step down transformer to see that the output is not peak output as it happens when we switch on or switch off but sustained output.

....


So if I understand you correctly, you used only one voltmeter and one ampermeter all the time, and did not use 2 voltmeters and two Ampermeters simultenously, right?   Two meters (a volt and an Amper) for the primary input and two meters for the secondary, used all four meters at the same time, this was not so?

Thanks for your answer.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #610 on: February 15, 2014, 06:59:57 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #611 on: February 15, 2014, 07:04:08 PM »
Sorry for any miscommunication on my part..

We had two volt meter and two Ammeters..

One voltmeter and one Ammeter for primary

Another voltmeter and another ammeter for secondary.

Hope this clarifies your doubts..Bye for this week.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #612 on: February 15, 2014, 07:12:05 PM »
Okay, thanks for the answer.

Please check with a digital Ohm meter the inner resistance of your Ampermeter set to the 20-30 Amper measurement range, I think you would measure under or around 1 Ohm values or so, and this value is with which you shorted the secondary when you saw the 20 Amper.  And I believe the 1 Ohm or less resistance is already a very nearly short circuit for a 600V secondary coil.

Thanks, Gyula

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #613 on: February 15, 2014, 07:21:25 PM »
Hi:

1. That Ammeter is an analog ammeter and we cannot set it to 20 to 30 amps range.

2. That has already burnt out and we will use a different one.

3. We did not short the secondary. It was kept open. Your assumption is wrong here. That is why we say under no load conditions.

4. We will check the ohms of the Ammeter next time. You may well be right but as I said we have to use a step down transformer and see the voltage and amperage output and see the useful output. That part is pending as I have told you from the beginning. That said as the voltage goes up, the useful amps also go up in the secondary. This is a fact we have recorded when we have tested other lower voltage versions.

This is why I say we need a significant primary input voltage and amperage combination. Minimum 20:1 ratio needed for secondary to work reasonably and higher we go better it becomes. However the amperage should also be reasonably well in the 5 to 10 amps range for any voltage for reasonable magnetism to be present to show effect on secondary. Figueras rotary device achieved high frequency it seems in addition to all this.in his modular approach. But I need to test and then only I can report..

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #614 on: February 15, 2014, 07:36:23 PM »

You are quite correct in stating that resistance of the wire and the ammeter must be measured together to arrive at the amps. Volts= amps x resistance.. But this is AC and would the above equation apply..

We certainly did not measure the results this way. we have had up to 250 volts and had 2 amps useful power as we used to light 200 watts lamps. This is when the primary was not made an electromagnet but was used to power lamps. The incidental emf was what was used in the secondary to get 500 watts of useful power.  Higher the voltage, higher the amperage avaiilable in the secondary.

However when the primary is used as electromagnet, more power output comes as the voltage is higher. So when we had 630 volts we were under the impression that we had 20 amps. You can well be right that we cannot calculate it that way. The only solution is to rebuild the device and test and check the results with a step down transformer that can handle the high amperage current.

We will do it and report this to you all so all can benefit. Thanks for the understanding and support.

 

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