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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1554492 times)

Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #405 on: November 17, 2013, 04:08:23 PM »
Yes, it's interesting especially because many motor-generator OU devices have been already shown on youtube. And we can do it without moving parts today....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #406 on: November 17, 2013, 05:03:59 PM »
Forest has eyes to see with and knows how to use them.

I guess you always found all the easter eggs as a kid. Revealed the deception of the magic tricks at parties. It's a real hoot Tesla got this through the examiners. Just goes to show you no mater how smart you think you are your still just human.

 Wow it wont let me put the image on here. Oh well ,just look close at the second image of the patent. K K ,K' K'  are actually K and K'.  The doubling up of the K's was to confound the examiner.
  lol  Tricky wrabbit.

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #407 on: November 17, 2013, 06:54:34 PM »
Hanon
  Answer "no.
 
 Here is the Tesla version as was pointed out to you by another person in this thread.Pat 382282
 Disect it ,read between the lines. Examine the images closely,follow the paths.Mark out the fields. Look for the obvious nonsensical portions of the image. Take the time to view the second image until you can come back and tell me what part does not make any sense. When you locate the part you will see how to and how to get a over unity device through the pat office. It really makes no difference who invented first.Everything follows secondary to who first discovered the load stone and the voltiac cell.

I don´t know why some people in these forums say to be sure of knowing the key concept for running a OU device. All they say: "I am not going to tell it, just look for it into Tesla´s patents", but none say what to look for exactly nor they explain in it in a clearly way. At least explain your ideas Clearly and with graphichs as has been done by other users

As far as I know Tesla did not try to patent any OU device, he just patented his AC polyphase system. Are you sure that something else is hidden into that exact patent? Are you sure that thse extra info is related to the design done by Figuera?

I am not an expert into electromagnetism. I have mainly learnt all in this last year since I am involved around the Figuera´s generator. I will try to read and understand that patent. I will do my best but I am not sure of grasping those sutile details...which are between the lines as you state... just with my current electromagnetic expertise.

Regards and thanks for sharing

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #407 on: November 17, 2013, 06:54:34 PM »
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Offline hanon

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Induction by "flux cutting" or by "flux linking"
« Reply #408 on: November 17, 2013, 07:44:35 PM »
Richard Feynman (Nobel prize winner) about the electromagnetic induction:

    "So the "flux rule" that the emf in a circuit is equal to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit applies whether the flux changes because the field changes or because the circuit moves (or both) ...

    Yet in our explanation of the rule we have used two completely distinct laws for the two cases  E = v x B  for "circuit moves" and  E = -S· dB/dt  for "field changes".

    We know of no other place in physics where such a simple and accurate general principle requires for its real understanding an analysis in terms of two different phenomena.

...

The "flux rule" does not work in this case [note: for an example explained in the original text]. It must be applied to circuits in which the material of the circuit remains the same. When the material of the circuit is changing, we must return to the basic laws. The correct physics is always given by the two basic laws

F = q · ( E + v · B )
rot E = - dB/dt                              "

            — Richard P. Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics

--------------------------------------------

For those interested in a interesting fact about the Induction Law here I link a file which explains that two different formulations seem to exist for the same phenomenon : one, the Faraday Unipolar generator: E = (v · B) , other the Maxwell 2nd Law : rot E = -dB/dt, which are two different formulations for the same law !!! Faraday-or-Maxwell by Meyl (read page 5 and next)

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/2978/gzuy.jpg


Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #409 on: November 17, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »
I'm guessing here but the transformer case is incorect.  Why ? Because if the resulting is decoupled E and B then it's against my interpretation of electricity. There is no such thing as a wave with only one side.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #409 on: November 17, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »
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Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #410 on: November 18, 2013, 06:41:47 PM »
Also there are two different manifestations of Lenz Law:

1- Lenz Law derived from a flux linking two coils
: It will create a opposing magnetic field (Binduced) against the change in the original magnetic field


2- Lenz Law derived from a flux cutting the moving wire
: it will appear a dragging force (F_b) which oppose the movement.

A proof of this dragging force can be seen here in a coil perpendicular to the inducer field: Video

Therefore: even in a coil at right angle to the inducer field we will get a dragging effect, although we can skip the opposing magnetic field. But we still have the dragging force against the movement..

Maybe the idea behind Figuera devices was to move the flux lines to cut the wire instead of moving the wire to cut the flux lines. This way you could skip both the opposing magnetic field and the dragging force. I don´t know. I am still learning ...   

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #411 on: November 18, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »
Two wave producers super imposed offset by 90 degrees or overlapped. Independently reaching saturation to retard current independently sharing a single source but also controlled independently. I tried to copy paste the image from the telsa patent for two reasons. One it shows how he found a way around the patent examiners which is amusing. Second it shows better detail. If i were more sure of your historical exposure I would have just alluded to the theory of a double acting steam piston engine.
 The inducers are pushing the induced by pushing back and forth against each other they only need enough current to maintain their respective feilds.The point between two opposing fields consumes no power but is the same direction of each other (NN) (SS) so direct linking magnetically is impossible between the inducers.Preventing the activity associated with transformers. If you place any two independent magnets north to south they combine into a single magnet.No good .If you do the same with any two electromagnets you get the same. Then the interception with a secondary or induced follows normal transformer rules, at the expense of supply current. Which has no advantage. Im not big on wasting my time with drawing pictures that already exists.If I were paid to do so I would, maybe actually no I would'nt. I gave you a clear image of two magnets facing each other and the field is clearly seen using iron filings. You can see the way each of the field flow with a distinct shear point between them where all the magnetic lines of force are squashed together in a fraction of the space they normally resided in. How many times have people drawn up something which acts like a normal transformer and got zilch for results. Do you really expect those lemons to give up chocolate milk?Really? Want to toss some formulas into the air showing a singular field? Im sure it is quite accurate but no more relative then the lemon is to cocoa bean. Find a formula to show two seperate fields which alternate in strength never using more then either one at full saturation because the current is adjusted from one electromagnet to the other in part and in succession never going to zero power on either.So in theory you only need calculate one electro magnet at full saturation for one. Then find a formula to give the quality of the magnetic field and it's potential reaction on a secondary or induced winding on a second core in close proximity. What could come out of the induced based on the quality of the inducers field is not at the expense of the inducers or the current which produced the field because you did not link the inducer fields to each other to make a complete path between them they are kept independent of each other. Only the space between the two opposing fields with its shear point and line of seperation is moving to and fro. The difference between these two fields which flow opposite directions (that is to say they still flow N-S but when facing each other N-N it will be seen as opposite flows of flux) it is twice as great as a single field changing direction back and forth.  Im sure you know of or have had some one explain or ask the question" If a south bound train traveling 60 miles an hour runs into a train going north bound at 80 miles an hour what is the speed of impact?" It's not 80 nor 60, it's 140. Consider further will a train consume more fuel going 140mph compared to two which are going one at 60 and one at 80? Lots of variables come into play. trains being pretty far from two magnetic fields pushing against each other .The connection is little more then to help you think in terms of opposition not cooperation of fields.
   Now you speak of a single half wave, I have no idea how you got that.Its far from that.Next you will be jumping ahead to two D cores with a single link between them powered by primaries seperately. Thats not the same thing either. You would still be working off transformer rules by permanently linking all the fields. They cant very well push each other around if they are combining into one.Then the only way to push it around is to use a lot power getting it to reverse direction 50 or 60 times a second.
 Another way of looking at it: Take a pipe and place a balloon on each end.Imagine you have placed a portion of air into the pipe enough to make the balloons taught but not expanded. Then imagine you can get a solid piston inside the center of the pipe. If you were some how able to move the piston to one side you would push more air into that side and the balloon would expand while the other emptied. Then push the piston back the other way and other balloon will fill while the opposite empties. You have not changed the volume of air in the set up you just moved it more to one side then the to the other side with the piston. Now what if it was the air that was pushing the piston back and forth by squeezing the balloons one at a time? Still the volume of air remains the same while the piston moves back and forth. Replace the balloons with inducers and replace the piston with the induced. Think of the air as the magnetic field with a point of seperation between the two sides because they are naturally repulsive to each other.
  In the first model the volume of air is static ,it does not change in volume it just gets squeezed back and forth. In the electrical model the electro magnets will not take on much more current then it takes to reach saturation. Once optimal conditions are reached in the quantity and quality of saturation in the cores of the opposed inducers (NN) (SS) they are squeezed more or less to move the field seperation between them so the fields move back and forth between them like the air and piston in the air model. The induced sees a changing magnetic flux but little was required to keep the inducers flux intact after it was made initially because it thinks it is saturated. Between two inducers in total, the amount of maximum flux for one of the inducers is shifted back and forth between the two. These two inducers think they are nearly saturated all the time. Because as the field becomes more in one compared to the other one occupying more flux space then the other even trying to over take some of the core of the other but it cant because two north or two south cant be in the same place at the same time reducing the effective mass of the lesser as seen by its own field. They can be a little closer or further apart depending on strength giving rise to movement between them.
 I know some people think you can only generate current if a magnet passes all the way through a coil so both north and south poles are involved. Seems kind of counter intuitive since they pass one at a time and cause a reverse effect of each other on a conductor which still has nothing to do with anything since the inducers are facing opposing directions only to prevent direct inductive coupling to each other while still getting a change in a specified location of induction between them for the induced. Truthfully I dont think your going to be able to come with a formula that will be complete enough to be of much use in terms of output due to the complexity of the cores and materials coupled with an inverse motion of induction by seperation. Don't look for me to do it any time soon for you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #411 on: November 18, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #412 on: November 18, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
How nice of you to offer up a graphic.
(http://www.overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/dlattach/attach/129975/image//)
 On either side of the induced coil place a mirror image of the magnet (N N) Move the coil left and right in the space between the magnetic fields. So the coil is either completely in one of the two fields. Move the coil back and forth. The induced coil sees a field of opposite direction of flow as it passes from one to the other. To maintain the magnetic field requires little expenditure since it is not reversing magnetic direction. The magnetic field needs to change in strength opposite it's counter inducer magnet for stationary model.So as to shift which magnets field is covering up the induced. These models or images and formulas only account for a single magnetic field and sometimes a cooperating set of magnets.Not opposing magnets, so the formula given will not apply. You need to know how much current it takes to maintain the magnetic field of the magnet then split that between two magnets then move potential or current more to one and less to the other and vise versa in succession at the frequency your looking for. If you combine the flux into a single path so they join you will have nothing worth noting.Just another POS transformer.

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #413 on: November 19, 2013, 01:24:37 AM »
Two wave producers super imposed offset by 90 degrees or overlapped. Independently reaching saturation to retard current independently sharing a single source but also controlled independently. I tried to copy paste the image from the telsa patent for two reasons. One it shows how he found a way around the patent examiners which is amusing. Second it shows better detail. If i were more sure of your historical exposure I would have just alluded to the theory of a double acting steam piston engine.
 The inducers are pushing the induced by pushing back and forth against each other they only need enough current to maintain their respective feilds.The point between two opposing fields consumes no power but is the same direction of each other (NN) (SS) so direct linking magnetically is impossible between the inducers.

Thanks Doug for your long explanation. Your post are very dense and difficult to dissect. It is a pity that you don´t use schematics to make easier the interpretation (you know what it is said that an image is worth more than 1000 words)

Here I just post a sketch that represent your idea. Two like poles facing each other and swinging back and forth along the changes in intensity in the electromagnets

As you can see in this scheme there is induction by:

    1-  Induction by Flux linking along the part of each coil transversed by the flux lines
    2-  Induction by Flux cutting the induced wire

The key that in this scheme is that the flux cutting induction to be greater than the induction the induction by flux linking. (the flux linking induction is under the Lenz Law effect and will produce an opposing induced magnetic field which will reduce the inducers strength)

The good part of this idea is that if the flux cutting induction by an N-N configuration will induce in the sense to reduce the inducers field, then the S-S configuration will do it in the sense to increase it because the flux lines in each case have opposite direction.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #413 on: November 19, 2013, 01:24:37 AM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #414 on: November 19, 2013, 01:19:53 PM »
I do believe he's got it. ;D The only way to conserve input is just that. conserve it by not directly coupling the magnetic effects to the output constantly while still getting the change in flux in the induced. Two magnets with an effect on time of 1/4 of the time each= 50 percent used to operate induction at 100 percent the decline is free. I think you'll find reminance can be your friend along with Lenz law if you have enough realistate to keep everyone happy.Now you can think about geometry of pole faces to even out things and the hour glass shape of the core pieces to consintrate force and reduce wire. The electric motor in the home of Mr ya know who,that was not a novelty. It lags and lagging reflective power keeps all the lights from knocking the entire works out of time. The motor is a must have just let it run under no load. Might work better with a weight to function as a fly wheel if too small a motor is used. May even have to start the motor turning by hand if proportions are out of wack.

Offline hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #415 on: November 21, 2013, 06:45:53 PM »
Doug,
 
I have been studying the Tesla patent No. 382282 that you referred previously and I cannot see the similarity with the system with like poles facing each other. Where is the idea in common in both designs?
 
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #415 on: November 21, 2013, 06:45:53 PM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #416 on: November 22, 2013, 12:18:21 AM »
That's ok hanon   
  What do you see out of the ordinary?

Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #417 on: November 22, 2013, 09:02:12 AM »
btw what is "multiple arc" connection ?

Offline Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #418 on: November 22, 2013, 01:01:21 PM »
Arc was a type o , ac connection.
  examine the generator closer KK K'K' the gen has two field magnets it;s simple ac generator so why the four slip rings and brushes? Trace out the connections to the annular ring.
  What will be the hard part is to get the fields centered so that the exact place where they reside in the induced is evenly positioned amongst all the sets so when current is shifted between the inducers it happens at the same time with the same amount. A method to test the field strength of each inducer while in place needs to be established. Any difference of sets will counter the effect in the other sets.every electromagnet of the inducers has to be exactly the same in strength and volume. If you have more volume of iron core or wire in half it wont react evenly on that part of the cycle.

Offline forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #419 on: November 22, 2013, 09:37:37 PM »
Doug1


So you state there is something interesting with generator , hmm I was surpriced by two brush pairs but text explains that he took two ac waves each from separate coil of generator.There is no K and K` , only K.


What was very strange to me is the connection of load to the shunted coil ! Trace it please, Tesla even state it has more current into load. That is not series or parallel connection I'm aware of.

 

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