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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2334995 times)

NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2100 on: April 20, 2015, 02:20:57 PM »
Doug:

Thanks. Honestly speaking, I really do not know. Retaining the magnetic flux and preventing it from leaving the system creates heat and that is quite undesireable as the wires and the iron become very hot. we always leave little gap in between the P1, S1 and P2 cores so that the iron is exposed to the air to venitlate the heat. Only then the iron is not heated much. In any case the gap occurs as the winding is done manually and there is a one turn less as we move up in the layers. So I'm not sure if what you say is correct. This time of the year is the vacation season in India. I have a good idea of what to do but it will cost me significant money to experiment, find out how to reduce the output to 220 volts and then increase the amperage. I believe that we would be able to maintain the output voltage at 220 volts and increase the amperage but I need to wait and see. Many calculations have gone wrong and different results come in experiments.  I will post here after about 15 to 20 days if we have done any experiments. At the moment we are not doing any and I have nothing to post.

Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2101 on: April 21, 2015, 01:12:04 PM »
NRamaswamiI clipped this image from your pdf. It is drawn as a continuous core with a narrow section in the middle. Like an hourglass. Are you saying the core has complete breaks between the three sets of coils or is this an image of a single core and coil to which three of them will be placed in alignment?

NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2102 on: April 23, 2015, 10:33:44 AM »
Doug:

I apologize for the delay. One Picture is worth 1000 words. One video is worth 100,000 words.  I will put up both pictures and videos next week.
Your picture is correct. My understanding of the whole thing is as follows. I may well be wrong.

When permanent magnets are made, they require a one time input and keep magnetism intact. But their field is stable. So to get a rotating magnetic field we need to rotate the permanent magnet. This requirs mechanical energy. Such rotation leads to Lenz law effects and so the output is less than input. With Electromagnets we get automatically rotating magnetic fields. As I have seen it is not necessary to give a huge input to create a large and powerful electromagnet. About 110 watts is sufficient. But if the design of the device is made properly the secondary will have a lot of turns. This causes the voltage in the secondary to increase. If we avoid Lenz law effects and increase the number of turns of secondary and use wires that are at least as thick as the primary, then we have a situation where more current is produced due to higher voltages. Voltge should be necessarily higher in the secondary than in the primary for this to happen.

I'm going to check whether it would be possible to give lower voltage and higher amperage input and then get the same result by giving low voltage and high amperage input. Then it would enable me to count the turns and reduce the output to 300 volts and then that can be given to loads. We will check whether it is doable.  We will also see what further improvement can be made and then we will provide the devices to the lab.

Unfortunately it is not possible for me to fund for all devices and so we need to make one device and give it to the lab and take mesurements and then reuse the wires and then take the next measurement. I will put up a video and photographs and gauge of wire used and number of turns and length of the wire so it can be replicated.

If I succeed in the present attempt then it would enable me to use a simple UPS system and connect it to a step down transformer and then feed the device and take the output and keep the UPS system powered by the output voltage. Let me see it if can be done. And what is the usable output. Since there is no conversion from AC to DC except inside the UPS system to power the battery I think the losses can be minimised and let me see what happens. I will post information when it is available which may take two or three more weeks.

JohnMiller

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2103 on: April 28, 2015, 11:20:13 PM »
@NRamaswami
Many, many thanks for your detailed contribution! :) I got knowledge via the P. Kelley publication of your device and am very interested to try a replication. This is my first post in this forum but I am no newbie in matters of free energy. I am sure to have plenty of questions but first I want to reread all your contributions (English is not my native language).

As I am a trained electrical engineer I agree with all warnings regarding dealing with lethal voltages. Folks, take it seriously! We need all of you in order to have success!
On the other hand I need to "de-learn" lots of stuff in order to get free view on what you report. In this respect you might be far in advance compared with trained individuals. Hence sharing knowledge and open minds is the receipt for overall success.

Two question in advance:
- Did you use standard PVC isolated wires like used by electricians? In some areas it is very difficult to get massive wire in 4 square mm. Do you feel that speaker twin cable (litz wire) will do the job?
- What kind of iron rods did you use? Was it oxidized annealed soft iron? What diameter? Did you use welding rods. Bedini likes them. But the copper plating fosters eddy currents on their surface.

I feel as first setup we should try to do a replica as close to yours as possible in order to get not too many unknown parameters involved at same time. Enhancements can be done only AFTER we have a functioning prototype - not before like many individuals try.

@ALL
Just some common hints:
1.
Aluminum wire has a resistance 1.5 times of copper. Hence the cross section needs to be increased times 1.5 in order to have same resistance. On the other hand aluminum tends to break far earlier if being rewound repeatedly. Regarding these facts the cost calculation needs to be revised.

2.
Incandescent bulbs are good means of electrical load but it is very difficult to check their intensity. Fortunately it is an easy and cheap means available to measure it.
Any solar cell (e.g. from calculators) can be connected to digital multimeters directly while setting them in µA range. Solar cells behave quite linearly in respect to light intensity vs. short circuited current.
Knowing this fact we can compare light intensity:
1. Calibration: Connect the bulb to mains and place the cell on top of the bulb. Measure mains voltage / amperage and µA from solar cell. Commercial bulbs have great variation. Therefore it is important to use one individual bulb and a individual cell and calibrate this setup.
2. Setup: Avoid any light from environment. You may prepare an empty tin can with a hole for the cell can and cover the bulb.
3. Document: Take notes of the values measured.
4. Measure: Whenever you use this bulb as load you can measure µA and have an understanding of the ratio between calibration and load condition. So you can know for sure if  your calibrated bulb lights in normal intensity.
5. Bonus: I you own an variac you can generate a chart along different voltages. Calculating the power (V*A) you can know the power dissipated from µA reading only.
6. Hint: Do not let the cell get hot because of accuracy issues at heat. Perform momentary measurements only. Same principle can be applied e.g. at 12V or 24V bulbs as well.
 

marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2104 on: April 29, 2015, 01:32:49 PM »
I have not posted in a while and i see this POST or thread was high jacked by NRamaswami. this post is about FIGUERAS not NRamaswami..... you should of started a NEW THREAD. i see even Patrick's PDF linked your project to this thread( SHAME ON YOU)
NO WONDER all the heavy weights left this thread and stopped posting because of  (PEOPLE LIKE YOU!)     KISS MY BACK SIDE NRamaswami !

RandyFL

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2105 on: April 29, 2015, 02:05:02 PM »
Hello All...
Let me be the first to weigh in on the Last comment...
I too thought about the divergence from Fiquera to this type of experimentation...but in essence I haven't seen anybody that has come in with a working model of the " Figuera " or the knowledge of a working model... Even when Patrick was answering my emails He stated that no one had reproduced the figuera exactly like the representation on His website...
Hence...if what ramaswami has to offer brings me closer to getting results to the figuera so be it...
I welcome everybody that has some thing to offer...

RandyFL
ps besides the traffic is moving at a snails pace anyway :-)

JohnMiller

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2106 on: April 29, 2015, 09:09:52 PM »
@marathonman
At first glance you might be right. If you reread the posts of Nramaswami (what I do just now) you will find his reference to functional principle of e.g. Figuera devices not being disclosed in the patents. Hence the Ramaswami device might be much closer to Figuera than expected at first glance - if we grasp it. Read his first post http://www.overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg387668/#msg387668 being dedicated to Figuera only.
Quote:  "I can confirm that we built an exact replica of Figuera and it did not work and then we modified it and the device worked perfectly well in that the output current was far higher than the input."
And please keep polite. Your insult is neither suitable nor true.

forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2107 on: April 29, 2015, 11:00:45 PM »
I don't think that hijacking this thread for posting real data about real device is a bad thing. The only problem is when people waste time with impolite comments and flooding thread with useless data.
We should learn from each other rather then fight ...
I have a question about NRamaswami device and/or Figuera device : is output the DC kind and if it could be DC then how to protect this kind of circuits ? I assume something which I need confirmation : if such output is connected to big capacitor electrolytic as storage and then negative part of all circuit is grounded then it can be safer ? I mean - this way the only way to be killed is by connecting positive output of device ?? Is that an improvement ? How such DC kind circuits could be protected against incidental current thought the body of experimenter - I'm insterested much in this knowledge , please help . I' working with other devices but all of them works the best with DC output.

RandyFL

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2108 on: April 29, 2015, 11:55:42 PM »
Hello All...
Welcome aboard JohnMiller...
If I may ask where or when you were employed ( the reason I ask is everybody that I have come in contact on the traditional side of energy has laughed or scoffed at free energy )...as you state you're well informed in free energy ( have you had success in the ZPE field )...my 84 yr old electronic engineer friend had died 2 Christmases before I finished building my circuit for the figuera transformers... He frowned upon free energy... An acquaintance that I just met is a professor at a University... who stated that my best option is to use electrical steel instead of the metal that I have been using... the metal ( iron mixed with something else ) that I am using is very strong but it magnetizes easily and drops paper clips as soon as the electricity is turned off... so I'm leery of traditional science...per se. Since you're in the business whats your view of iron and/or other metals...lastly whats your view of gaps in iron?

RandyFL
   

NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2109 on: April 30, 2015, 04:52:47 AM »
Iron used was soft iron. What type..I do not know..

Secondary wire should be at leat as thick as primary or thicker than primary. I have used about 30-35 kgms of wire in each primary core or more.

Output is AC or it can be pulsed DC. Input can be AC or pulsed DC or if you use a rotary device DC also. Output can be converted to DC.

Please read Figueras patent and focus on the principle and not on the example given.

Let me quote Figuera Here again from http://www.alpoma.net/tecob/?page_id=8258 and I assume that the Translation was done by Hanon.

Quote Begin....

"The voltage from the total current of the current dynamos is the sum of partial induced currents born in each one of the turns of the induced. Therefore it matters little to these induced currents if they were obtained by the turning of the induced, or by the variation of the magnetic flux that runs through them; but in the first case, a greater source of mechanical work than obtained electricity is required, and in the second case, the force necessary to achieve the variation of flux is so insignificant that it can be derived without any inconvenience, from the one supplied by the machine.

Until the present no machine based on this principle has been applied yet to the production of large electrical currents, and which among other advantages, has suppressed any necessity for motion and therefore the force needed to produce it.
In order to privilege the application to the production of large industrial electrical currents, on the principle that says that “there is production of induced electrical current provided that you change in any way the flow of force through the induced circuit,” seems that it is enough with the previously exposed; however, as this application need to materialize in a machine, there is need to describe it in order to see how to carry out a practical application of said principle.

This principle is not new since it is just a consequence of the laws of induction stated by Faraday in the year 1831: what it is new and requested to privilege is the application of this principle to a machine which produces large industrial electrical currents which until now cannot be obtained but transforming mechanical work into electricity.

Let’s therefore make the description of a machine based on the prior principle which is being privileged; but it must be noted, and what is sought is the patent for the application of this principle, that all machines built based on this principle, will be included in the scope of this patent, whatever the form and way that has been used to make the application.

DESCRIPTION OF GENERATOR OF VARIABLE EXCITACION “FIGUERA”

The machine comprise a fixed inductor circuit, consisting of several electromagnets with soft iron cores exercising induction in the induced circuit, also fixed and motionless, composed of several reels or coils, properly placed. As neither of the two circuits spin, there is no need to make them round, nor leave any space between one and the other.

Here what it is constantly changing is the intensity of the excitatory current which drives the electromagnets"

Quote End-----------------------------

So this is where you have not considered the requirement of several reels of coils. The coils should be properly placed is another requirement. This placement of several reels of coils will create a varying magnetic flux or a rotating magnetic field through the input.

Figuera gives an example of a device which uses resistances and a rotary contact device. The input was from a battery and the circuit and the rotary switch made the direct current to behave like an alternatiing current. Since I gave from the mains the need for resistances and rotary switch was removed. The rotary switch and circuit would be needed if we use a battery to power the circuit but it is very cumbersome and sparks come out of the contacts unless the device is very slowly rotated. Doing so would reduce the frequency of the electricity generated and how to bring it to 50Hz is another problem. Of course by increasing the number of contact switches even at 1 RPM we can have a 50 Hz current but it all costs a lot of money. Feeding from the battery creates another problem of low voltage. It works like the input from a step down transformer. Low Voltage High Amperage leading to core magnetization. This is what would normally be done. Here Figuera hides his trade secret by using the term reels of coils that are properly placed.

I have used in the primary shown about 800 meters of wires in my estimation. It can be from 720-800 meters of wires. When properly connected this can give an output of about 900 volts and 30 Amps at the output. 

I have posted some pictures and will avoid posting here.

Mr. John Miller says that we need to unlearn...Not necessarily..Keep an open mind.. If you look at a solenoid you are taught that the maximum magnetic field strength of the solenoid is in the center of the solenoid. This is correct.

If you look at a motor repulsive forces are used to rotate the core in the center of the Motor. This is again correct.

Where we have gone wrong is that if you rotate the motor faster than the input current, the motor would start behaving like an Alternator or generator. So let us rotate the core to generate the current is the accepted norm. This is quite ridiculous..You can test this easily by winding a solenoid with the primary in the center and the secondary on the outside. What will happen? The secondary will be in the weakest portion of the magnetic field strength and so the secondary would produce less than the optimum. Try placing the secondary inside and primary outside and see the difference. In a generator the rotating part that induces current should have been placed at the outside and the generating part must be placed in the inside. But in our current machines we do it upside down.

But going upside down is beneficial to manufacturers of machines and this creates an endless demand for their products. Devices like the Figuera would enable any one to produce any amount of needed current any where in the world with a very minimum investment. So this knowledge is not taught..I have found that we need a theoretical input of 6 watts to a practically observed 110 watts to be the needed force to start the output. Output can be controlled to our desired needs. It can be any amount of electricity required. The device is modular in construction and can be scaled up to power large factories and power small homes. The problem is that the device weighs about 250 kgms at the minimum size out of which 80 kgms are just wires alone. These are thick wires and need to wound manually.

In general try to use as thick wires as possible. Thicker insulated wires have an advantage over magnet enamalled wires. I do not understand the science but we need to use thick, if possible very thick insulated wires.

I have not prevented any one from posting here and in one of my posts even corrected and guided Mr. Marathonman that if he uses identical poles he will get zero voltage. I do not think my posts appear to be useful to others. I would request the forum owner to delete all my posts and info provided by me. I was under the impression that this forum is intended to share the results of experiments done by each one so mistakes can be avoided.  I will ask Patrick to remove the information about the device from his book and I do not want any controversy.

Regards

Ramaswami
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 09:10:11 AM by NRamaswami »

JohnMiller

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2110 on: April 30, 2015, 10:36:22 AM »
Oh, NO! Don't do that. PLEASE! Please continue discussing with those being open minded. I know how you feel but unfortunately those controversies are usual at any forum from time to time. Ravens exist and you can't prevent them from flying around your head. But you are not forced to follow them and you are not supposed to allow them nesting on your head.
I myself want to try a replication. I ordered first materials.
I am one decade older than you and I know that I will loose my job within a year. Then I will have plenty of time for experiments. Just preparing for that time. I have few mechanic skills in terms of precision and no friend with such skills. Therefore I look for simple devices like yours. Only those devices can serve poor regions in the world. I want to contribute.

Rgds John 

BANDI

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2111 on: April 30, 2015, 02:02:39 PM »
NRamaswami,
Please don t do this !
We are a group of people who try to replicate this,whe almost have all the materials and  really need your help.
For now we have a small scale prototype and behaves exactly as you say.
Those who do not like these posts, simply  skip them and save  time and bad taste comments  .
Here are much buffoonery  than real work.
Please dont pay attention , not worth it.

Regards,
              Bandi.

iflewmyown

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2112 on: April 30, 2015, 02:32:51 PM »
NRamaswami
Please do not listen to the naysayers on this forum. They attack others because they themselves have nothing to offer. You have been very upfront about all your answers and spent many hours just in replies to this forum. Most of the people here are sincerely interested in what you say. It is my hope and that of my family that you continue to help and ignore those who would bury this information. The last person to understand this died in 1908. Will the world have to wait another 107 years to get free of the slave masters?? Gandhi did not run when the British mocked him. He was one man who changed not just your country but the world. I am a retired man with a limited income but when I feel I understand this well enough I will build your device. Thank you
Garry

JohnMiller

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2113 on: April 30, 2015, 05:46:26 PM »
If I may ask where or when you were employed ( the reason I ask is everybody that I have come in contact on the traditional side of energy has laughed or scoffed at free energy )...as you state you're well informed in free energy ( have you had success in the ZPE field )...... Since you're in the business whats your view of iron and/or other metals...lastly whats your view of gaps in iron?

@RandyFL:
Thanks for welcoming me :-)
Sorry for not introducing me before. I am intrigued by free energy matters since 4 years. I tested some minor setups but was not pleased with results. Therefore I extended my lab and workshop and red plenty of sources in order to grasp some common properties of this physics. Playing in both camps (traditional and border physics) is mainly not a matter of education but of mindset. But it is effort to strip down mainstream knowledge in order to add additional knowledge being not common. New things need to be approached with a humble mind. Else the main facts might be overseen.

In order to explain on what verge we stand today I want to tell how our ancestors began with electricity. Back in 1450 only one electric effect was known: rubbing amber (Greek = elektron) on silk or fur generated static effects. Hence "electric" was initially a party gag. Ladies rubbed their amber collier on their silk skirts and charged the amber. Then waiters brought frogs on a try and ladies touched them with the charged amber. Then they watched which frog jumped the greatest distance.
Later on scientists rolled a ball of brimstone in a wooden box and when others touched the ball their hairs stood straight up.... This shall indicate on what verge we stand today compared to the facts that can possibly known.
Later on those great minds like Faraday started thorough scientific investigations and tried to find out some novel effects. Maxwelll added the math to the experimental results.
[Of course at that time naysayers were present like today. They are undying and never will expire. So we shall learn to live with them but prevent getting controlled by them.]
The gathered knowledge of later great minds like Volta, Galvani, Ampére, Ohm, Hertz .... added all their share to our knowledge. And indeed we have great products today being based on their contribution.
I cannot understand why some minds believe today that we are ready and they know the limits of science. The only limit is in the human understanding and mindset. This never will change. Hence scientific limits never were known by anyone. But the great minds only understood that and expressed it in particular.
Back to Nrmaswami device: He is one of those "tinkerers" like B. Franklin who was laughed when he "tried to catch lightning bolts" ha ha ha ..... Let's continue welcoming what he shares and we will add our penny.

-----------------
Of course conventional science states that  electric steel is he best choice in terms of getting maximum magnetic flux. But having no closed magnetic circuit like at standard transformers the maximum flux never can be achieved. And we have no high frequency power equipment like used at miner equipment and air plains. So what?. Bedini likes to use welding rods out of mild steel? Nramaswami uses cheap and fat iron rods of unknown quality and he got effects we are still after. Further notions will be issued if we have assembled some kind of spec. So why should we "put our cloth on with tweezers if we can do it quite genuinely"?

A scientific approach is to replicate a running setup as close to the first prototype as possible. Any pre-replication "enhancement" might be a drawback. It is a blind flight or scientific roulette. Of course nobody will have the exact materials like the prototype but perhaps close to.
And if somebody wants to try an own approach (e.g. scaled down device): so what? It is his money, his time spent and he might detect novel effects.  I feel it is not helpful to conduct discussions fundamentalisticly. As long everybody extracts knowledge shared and shares his experience we are on the right way. The magic might be in the plurality of minds and approaches.

--------------
I myself imagine lots to improvements but I refuse to share them because they might detract and confuse and I definitely still do not know on how this device works exactly. So I vote to be blind in these matters and how can I dare to advise others. I am supposed to learn.
My focus is on a first replication and I do not worry to demonstrate a closed loop. It is too early for that. Some chains of 220V incandescent bulbs or several 2KW heaters in series will very well demonstrate COP factor.
Any further enhancements NEED to be tested in comparison to the FIRST working setup. The human mind is not made to deal with more than 7 parameters at same time. So let's keep thinks adapted to our limits.

My personal approach will be:
- Scan all contributions regarding this device and extract those sentences that contribute to any kind of specification. (BTW I am trained in requirement engineering as well and therefore I am used to stick on every possibly distant ambiguity)
- Ambiguities need to be resolved first - if possible. (no distrust to you nramaswami - just a matter of human communication issues...)
- Setup a calculator (Excel) for spool dimensions and wire length in order to perform some predictions of materials needed.

OK. Then let me retract to start my work.
John

RandyFL

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2114 on: April 30, 2015, 06:20:23 PM »
Hello All,

John,
so what exactly is electrical steel...
I understood it to be iron + carbon = steel + silicon...
I purchased my iron from Ed Fagan, Inc.
http://www.edfagan.com/
As I stated before the iron I purchased when electricity passes thru it it magnetizes and whenst it stops the metal clips fall off...

Randy