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### Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2175886 times)

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2012, 09:50:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure you can do that with an Arduino. The basic Arduino comes with 2 PWM outputs that can be programmed for frequency and duty cycle, IIRC. These are used by robot builders to control servomotors driving wheels, so the robot can turn or accelerate.This means that the frequency and pulse width of each output can be independently controlled, thus giving control of phase in software. I think.

Here a person uses two pots to control the frequency and duty cycle of one of the PWM outputs of an Arduino, I think. Or he might be using both outputs in just the manner you need, one for f and the other for %. The pots don't actually control the motor; the Arduino reads a voltage value from the pots, translates that into a numerical value between 0 and 255, and passes that to the PWM stage digital controller. So the desired numerical values for f and % can be sent by any means or even hard-coded into the program. The second PWM output can be controlled in the same way, and the two can be synched for phase angle in the program. I think.

Arduinos are easy to program, especially if you know c or c++, and there is a _lot_ of help on the internet for Arduino and Arduino clone users. The "Fry's" electronics store chain even usually stocks an Arduino clone line of products called "Osepp"; I have several of these and they are really powerful, can do just about anything you can think of requiring analog or digital inputs controlling analog or digital outputs.

#### kEhYo77

• Full Member
• Posts: 247
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2012, 10:04:57 PM »
Quote
I hate to play the clever one. But I have to tell you, that the L298N is not useful. You can only supply one voltage to the coils (full step). It may be possible to implement a different phase shift than 90° (but I doubt even that).

You do it by PWM Mr. Clever ONE

Here is an example http://interface.khm.de/index.php/lab/experiments/arduino-dds-sinewave-generator/

#### vrand

• Full Member
• Posts: 214
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 03:23:27 AM »
The attached document explains how Mr. Figuera's "infinite energy machine" works.
It is amazing how we keep recycling old concepts over and over again. And then, we even claim that we are the inventors.

Bajac

I NOTICED THAT FIGURE 21 IS IN ERROR. PLEASE, REPLACE PAGE 15 WITH THE ATTACHED ONE!

Thank you for sharing, keep up the good work!
Cheers

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 09:13:54 AM »

You do it by PWM Mr. Clever ONE

Here is an example http://interface.khm.de/index.php/lab/experiments/arduino-dds-sinewave-generator/

The DRV8834 (and practically all stepper motor driver ICs) do chopping (at a high frequency) and one can in principle implement a chopper with a microprocessor. But you have to add two full bridges (or at least two half bridges) in an external circuit (and supporting components) in order to get some power (e.g. +-10 Volt and 1.5 Ampere) for driving the Figuera transformer.

My argument is price (less than 5.-- Euro for the DRV8834), the avoidance of a lot of soldering and reliability of operation.

But there are many ways to build a test bed for the Fiquera transformer, I just want to come up with a versatile, cost effective and usable contraption.

I am not a salesman for stepper motor driver ICs, I just happen to know what they can do.

P.S.: Speeding up and slowing down a stepper motor means to vary the time between steps. "Micro stepping" happens in between steps and tries to smoothly push the rotor from one step to the next by varying the current through the coils at step N and through the coils at step N+1 (which happens to be similar to Fiquera's idea). So, Fiquera's idea is similar to what happens between step N and step N+1 in a stepper motor when doing "micro stepping".

#### kEhYo77

• Full Member
• Posts: 247
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 09:31:11 AM »
My argument is price (less than 5.-- Euro for the DRV8834), the avoidance of a lot of soldering and reliability of operation.

It's my argument too, L298N is less than 2 Euro
So an Arduino + L298N is very cheap. No problems in soldering, no additional components needed, only freewheeling diodes across the coils and few small caps and inductors for lowpass filtering. (see the example I provided)
By software output signal chopping (PWM) we can control 2 independent full H-bridges inside L298N having TWO sine wave signals (or any other type of signal such as saw-tooth) up to 35 kHz on its outputs.
It means variable current as well...

You can't go cheaper/simpler than that, just wait and see...

Greeting from Poland where the price matters

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1733
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 01:22:38 PM »
Great Project . Thanks for the Heads up on the driver research. Wish i did not waste 3 bucks but hey i'll experiment with it anyways until a circuit is nailed down for sure .... ..Gone looking for bigger c  and i cores now..

Keep us posted with any progress Please .

#### kEhYo77

• Full Member
• Posts: 247
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 09:40:58 PM »
I couldn't help myself... I will be testing this configuration
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 11:43:24 PM by kEhYo77 »

#### bajac

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 285
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2012, 02:40:41 AM »

I would like to point out the following;
the voltage rating of the coils could be more than 20V. Therefore, the voltage rating of the driver should be no less than 30V. With such a low excitation voltage, the primary coils cannot be connected in series.

In addition, I am not sure if the output voltage and current of the stepper motor drives is sinusoidal AC voltage. If the driver voltage is a sinusoidal DC voltage (DC offset), then we have a problem.

Can someone help with this issue?

Thank you,
Bajac

#### kEhYo77

• Full Member
• Posts: 247
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2012, 11:49:15 AM »
I guess that this fresh video of a SELFRUNNER from mr. clean at energeticforum will be somewhat related to this thread!

It's based on the BiTT of Thane C. Heins.

Those principles exist in Figuera's generator topology as well.

#### bajac

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 285
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2012, 06:28:32 PM »
Figuera's generator can be considered the first Motionless Electric Generator (MEG).

The available information from his patents indicates that the only competition for his generator was the generators based on a rotating shaft. Figuera goes on describing the moving generator as the one that converts mechanical energy into electrical energy, while his apparatus does not utilizes mechanical energy. Figuera also stated that his apparatus is self-excited, that is, a small amount of output energy can be fed back to the N and S coils and the external battery can be disconnected.

Bajac

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2012, 09:13:17 PM »
See the attached schematics for the test system I will build.

For an initial test I will wind all tree coils (primary 0 - secondary - primary 1) on a Ferrite rod next to each other (the secondary will be sandwiched between the two primaries).

http://at.farnell.com/texas-instruments/drv8834pwp/treiber-motor-dual-h-bridge-24htssop/dp/2115234
http://at.farnell.com/texas-instruments/msp430g2452in20/mcu-16bit-8k-flash-20pdip/dp/1865383

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2012, 11:45:23 PM »
There is a thing called a "motor controller shield" that snaps onto an Arduino, that incorporates 2 L293D quad half-H high current motor drivers onboard, plus breakout connectors. This shield interfaces between the Arduino proper and your motors. It will drive 2 RC servos, or 2 standard stepper motors, or 4 regular DC motors by PWM. You can run the motors off the Arduino power bus or from a separate power supply to the H-bridges. The 293s are in the standard 16-pin DIPs and are in sockets, so you don't have to mess with SMDs and hassle a lot when you blow a driver chip.

I have one that I use with the Osepp arduino clone. It works great for motor control and I suppose you can program any kind of signal to the two L293 drivers you like, maybe.

makeshields.com "full function motor control shield for arduino"

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2012, 10:50:30 AM »
There is a thing called a "motor controller shield" that snaps onto an Arduino, that incorporates 2 L293D quad half-H high current motor drivers onboard, plus breakout connectors. This shield interfaces between the Arduino proper and your motors. It will drive 2 RC servos, or 2 standard stepper motors, or 4 regular DC motors by PWM. You can run the motors off the Arduino power bus or from a separate power supply to the H-bridges. The 293s are in the standard 16-pin DIPs and are in sockets, so you don't have to mess with SMDs and hassle a lot when you blow a driver chip.

Unfortunately the L293D is completely useless for micro stepping, it just can switch the transistor bridges on and off (no in between steps, no chopping).

This is what it is all about:

http://www.stepperworld.com/Tutorials/pgMicrostepping.htm

And it is even more complicated in case one wants that the phase difference is not locked at 90°.

Look at the circuit I posted in my last post. This is what one needs. Of course one can do it in many ways, but the circuit shows the principle, it shows the capabilities needed. Whatever circuit one builds or finds, it should match or even outperform the capabilities of my example circuit.

The components in my circuit are all very modern and therefore consume little power by themselves, which is essential for a self runner. There are microprocessors which have on board DA - converters (one needs two), but they need considerable power (in comparison to the MSP430G2xxx series). AD - converters (for sensing applications) have become common in microprocessors, but DA - converters integrated into microprocessors are still rare.

When looking for stepper motor drivers (or boards), look for at least 8 MICRO STEPS. The emphasis is on MICRO (in between steps). For these micro steps one has to vary the CURRENT through the coils along a Sinus wave form with a 90° phase difference. And only a few stepper motor drivers allow to even change the 90° phase difference and to realise any wave form for the CURRENT. Of course, all drives which can vary the current (which can do MICRO steps), do it by chopping.

An alternative way would be to just use two full transistor bridges and to do the chopping and phase control with the micro processor. But to do the chopping in any useful and fairly clean way, a lot of additional circuitry around the full bridges is necessary which I would hate to have to design. This is the reason why I looked to the stepper motor driver ICs, where they have solved all the little problems of "chopping" in the last 10 years.

I continue the (probably unwanted) lecture, just to make everybody understand:

To beat the "Figuera commutator + 7 resistors" one needs a stepper motor driver IC or board which can do at least 8 MICRO steps (driving two coils). For higher voltages and higher currents one can find stepper motor driver ICs, which can do only one coil each, but they start to have limitations (only 4 or 2 MICRO steps).

One can of course design a new "chopper circuit" based on full transistor bridges, but I wish you good luck with that, specially if you want high voltage and high current. Why do you think are the high power stepper motor drivers which can do at least 8 MICRO steps rather expensive and rarely versatile?

I want to test the Figuera idea, but I do not want to go into "chopper circuit design". "Chopper circuit design" has been solved in connection with stepper motor drivers which can do MICRO stepping (8, 16, 32 MICRO steps or even a lot of MICRO steps along an analogue wave form like the DRV8834 can do).

P.S.: I promise to stop my lecturing about stepper motor drivers and chopper circuits.

#### norman6538

• Hero Member
• Posts: 567
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2012, 12:45:42 PM »
Where is the original Figuera work? I can't seem to find that.
Perhaps another group?

Norman

#### bajac

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 285
##### Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2012, 03:52:34 PM »
Norman,

A sketch of the patent can be found in this Spanish article:
http://www.alpoma.net/tecob/?p=4005

And, this is a poor English translation of that article:
http://orbo.es/?p=26

Bajac