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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1865753 times)

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1140 on: March 26, 2014, 01:39:58 PM »
Here my latest this tipe divice. Other I disasamble.
Here topic about his transformer, in that place is details about his transformer and my transformer videos. [size=78%]http://realstrannik.ru/forum/19-svobodnaya-energiya/134493-tigra-xitryj-transformator.html[/size]

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1141 on: March 26, 2014, 10:19:46 PM »
Correct me if i am wrong, but the picture shows the Secondary core twice as big as the Primary. won't this Dilute the flux coming from the Primary to the Secondary by 1/2 intensity. will it not spread out in the larger core and have a negative impact on output.
things that make you go Hmmmm ?

Offline dieter

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1142 on: March 27, 2014, 05:26:33 AM »
I think the turns ratio mainly defines the voltage ratio, but rhe very diffrent right and left coil seems pretty unlike anything between Thane Heins and Clemente Figuera. But that doesn't neccessarily  mean there's a problem. Heins even stated somewhere the 2 secondaries should be slightly diffrent.


MenofFather, make sure the core parts (double ferrite E ??) are pressed together strongly! Nice pictures tho.


And it should be said: In a 3 coil setup things are not so simple like in a standard 2 coil transformer. In a Figuera Mode you have to achieve a redirection of the back mmf to the inactive side, but before it is inactive it may  perform a field collapse that has the same polarity as the other (active) primary, which is not helpful, so the waveform may be rather crucial, in order to decrease softly. In theory one could use a diode to prevent the collapsing field to manifest at all, but Figuera didn't have diodes.


Regards


Offline MenofFather

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1143 on: March 27, 2014, 11:39:36 AM »
Correct me if i am wrong, but the picture shows the Secondary core twice as big as the Primary. won't this Dilute the flux coming from the Primary to the Secondary by 1/2 intensity. will it not spread out in the larger core and have a negative impact on output.
things that make you go Hmmmm ?
Yes, secondaries I make bigger, somthing like in Hein transformer. To magnetic flux go from primary to secondaries, but not go from secendaries to primary.

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1144 on: March 27, 2014, 06:00:28 PM »
I think the turns ratio mainly defines the voltage ratio, but rhe very diffrent right and left coil seems pretty unlike anything between Thane Heins and Clemente Figuera. But that doesn't neccessarily  mean there's a problem. Heins even stated somewhere the 2 secondaries should be slightly diffrent.


MenofFather, make sure the core parts (double ferrite E ??) are pressed together strongly! Nice pictures tho.


And it should be said: In a 3 coil setup things are not so simple like in a standard 2 coil transformer. In a Figuera Mode you have to achieve a redirection of the back mmf to the inactive side, but before it is inactive it may  perform a field collapse that has the same polarity as the other (active) primary, which is not helpful, so the waveform may be rather crucial, in order to decrease softly. In theory one could use a diode to prevent the collapsing field to manifest at all, but Figuera didn't have diodes.


Regards

Dieter;
Note that the primary that causes the initial flux is taken down slowly while the opposite polarity core takes over at 50 % so this may or may not be the situation you are describing.  by taking the NS coil down slowly and the SN coil taking over at 50% it seems that the BMMf will not form or if it does it should be miniscule amounts  and then redirected to the opposite polarity core in attraction mode.

then again the E fields are combined to Double intensity for SN coil as per Hyiq.org.
The resulting motional E-field is again vertical to both and inwardly directed."geometrically opposing fields."
Thus, the resultant field intensity is double the intensity attributable to either one of the set of coil conductors taken singularly.

Its just a thought but they could be combining and that is where the extra boost is coming from making Figueras OU.
and its possible that the Lenz's Field short Circuits on its self with the use of a small gap (but very small gap). even though the cores are right together is doesn't mean the gap is not important.
More interesting info.
The Magnetic Field
A Charged Particle moving in space or in a medium creates a Magnetic Field. If we wanted to make the charged particle move faster, we need to find a way to reduce its Magnetic Field. The Magnetic Field acts as a Break in some situations. Thus, we commonly see heating of Coils in Transformers, Generators and so on, that's proportional to the power output drawn.

Take two separate sources of Magnetic Fields, opposing, North to North squeezed together, if one was to apply the superposition rules, this would mean that it cancels the Magnetic Field. This is not entirely true unless the source of each Magnetic Field occupies the same physical space at the same time and with the same magnitude. In saying this, the Magnetic Field is greatly reduced the tighter the Magnetic Fields are squeezed together. this allows the charge particle to move at an excellerated rate.

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1145 on: March 27, 2014, 06:05:12 PM »
Yes, secondaries I make bigger, somthing like in Hein transformer. To magnetic flux go from primary to secondaries, but not go from secendaries to primary.

I was refering to the Primaries bigger and the Secondaries smaller, opposite of what you have now.??????

Offline dieter

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1146 on: March 27, 2014, 06:23:48 PM »
Actually, I did use diodes when I used the two separated halfwaves, but it didn't seem to neutralize the back mmf/emf ...


So I got a question: When a B field collapses, it induces a current of reverse polarity. but if this current can't flow (due to diodes), will the B field persist?


Isn't there a contradiction, whether the collapsing B field induces the back EMF, or the Back EMF causes a Back MMF that looks like a "collapsing field"?


Basicly, is there a diffrence in the effect of the collapsing B field depending on whether a current may flow in the coil or not?


Regards


PS. marathonman, good point about the 50% takeover...

Offline shadow119g

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1147 on: March 27, 2014, 10:06:23 PM »
Welcome MenofFather

Shadow update

I think my transformers are working properly but at a low voltage.
I also think it is because of the commutators I built. I am getting
about the same results from both the 32 and 16 contact versions.
I really don't know why the voltage is low.
The only encouraging thing is that for each transformer group of
three, the voltage increases as I measure voltage from the first
group through the fourth group.
The following is the voltages for each group of three transformers:

Group 1 = .4 analog meter .2 digital meter
Group 2 = .95                   .6
Group 3 = 1.55                1.1
Group 4 = 1.95                1.6
I have changed the air gap from about .035 to .008 and .002
the last I had to leave the clear office type tape in the gap.
The readings did not change between the .008 and .002
I am using a lawn mower 12 volt lead acid battery sometimes
with a trickle charger.
I machined the mild or hot rolled steel to within a .001 tolerance.
the three pieces of steel are through bolted at the top.
The primary legs are two times the length of the bar the coil
mounts on.

Any ideas why my voltage is so low?
Oh, I have a little over 100 turns of #18 = 1.023mm wire
the same length and turns on all coils.

Shadow

Offline dieter

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1148 on: March 28, 2014, 12:19:27 AM »
Shadow119g,


This sounds great. The wire seems a little thick and the n-of turns a little low. With a 1 mm wire I would expect a coil at least 1" x  4", also as a rule of thumb the dc resistance should not be too low, eg.  (12v x 12v)/ 14 ohm = 10 watts dissipation, which is a lot for a 12 v battery. Of course, just reactive, but nonetheless.


The contact of the commutators, is it sparky? That may give you lots of voltage peaks, but not a very long real contact time, resulting in less total current, which may lead to extensive dropping of voltage in the primary.
Maybe try to use a high voltage low capacitance cap accross the commutator outputs to catch and integrate the spark voltage peaks. Note, due to the nature of sparks, they may reach a thousand volt or so, so if your rectifier diodes (and you probably should rectify these peaks, since they contain back emf sparks) are fried, use 5 diodes in series as one HV diode substitute.
The voltage ratio seems to tend to the extreme in figuera designs. I had a turn ratio p vs s of about 1 to 2, input voltage dropped to 2.5 v (iirc), but output was 25 v (after rectifier with cap),


Would be nice to see some pics. Keep up the good work!


PS. maybe this contradicts what others said, but I tend to use rather less turns on the primary and more turns on the secondary. This causes more current flow in the primary, stronger magnetism and finally better coupling. Just make sure tbe primary won't get hot when unloaded. The higher number of turns of the secondary keeps the voltage high, but should not be  too high, otherwise there is no more current in the output.


Where in 2 coil transformers the voltage ratio is the same as the turns ratio, in the Figuera setup the ratio seems to be exponentional.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 02:56:28 AM by dieter »

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1149 on: March 28, 2014, 04:26:26 AM »
Actually, I did use diodes when I used the two separated halfwaves, but it didn't seem to neutralize the back mmf/emf ...


So I got a question: When a B field collapses, it induces a current of reverse polarity. but if this current can't flow (due to diodes), will the B field persist?


Isn't there a contradiction, whether the collapsing B field induces the back EMF, or the Back EMF causes a Back MMF that looks like a "collapsing field"?


Basicly, is there a diffrence in the effect of the collapsing B field depending on whether a current may flow in the coil or not?


Regards


PS. marathonman, good point about the 50% takeover...

Dieter;
what we possibly have is two opposing  magnetic fields from two different cores that could quite possibly be canceling each other out even though one is causing the other. once current flows in secondary core lentz law will take place but that seems more likely on the same core not separate cores. if the magnetic fields are equal in strength it seems they will cancel each other out leaving only the electric fields to combine for the next pole peak.....ie SN or NS 50 % opposite swing??????

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1150 on: March 28, 2014, 04:36:33 AM »
Marathonman:

This is in response to your last reply to Dieter.

What you are saying is contradictory to the Figuera patent which clearly specifies that current should go up and come down regularly for the system to work.

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1151 on: March 28, 2014, 04:43:18 AM »
Shadow119g,


This sounds great. The wire seems a little thick and the n-of turns a little low. With a 1 mm wire I would expect a coil at least 1" x  4", also as a rule of thumb the dc resistance should not be too low, eg.  (12v x 12v)/ 14 ohm = 10 watts dissipation, which is a lot for a 12 v battery. Of course, just reactive, but nonetheless.


The contact of the commutators, is it sparky? That may give you lots of voltage peaks, but not a very long real contact time, resulting in less total current, which may lead to extensive dropping of voltage in the primary.
Maybe try to use a high voltage low capacitance cap accross the commutator outputs to catch and integrate the spark voltage peaks. Note, due to the nature of sparks, they may reach a thousand volt or so, so if your rectifier diodes (and you probably should rectify these peaks, since they contain back emf sparks) are fried, use 5 diodes in series as one HV diode substitute.
The voltage ratio seems to tend to the extreme in figuera designs. I had a turn ratio p vs s of about 1 to 2, input voltage dropped to 2.5 v (iirc), but output was 25 v (after rectifier with cap),


Would be nice to see some pics. Keep up the good work!


PS. maybe this contradicts what others said, but I tend to use rather less turns on the primary and more turns on the secondary. This causes more current flow in the primary, stronger magnetism and finally better coupling. Just make sure tbe primary won't get hot when unloaded. The higher number of turns of the secondary keeps the voltage high, but should not be  too high, otherwise there is no more current in the output.


Where in 2 coil transformers the voltage ratio is the same as the turns ratio, in the Figuera setup the ratio seems to be exponentional.

Shadow; im not trying to be picky but figueras used 100 volt @ 1 amp not 12 volt.   it does not make a difference if the flux was from 5 amps or one amp as long as it is substantial enough to maintain current in Secondary core but taking in concideration as not to saturate the Secondary core to the point of frequency degradation. figueras was not getting a crap load of current and voltage out of one coil pair but what he was doing was maintaining slighly more  voltage and current with each tri core pair. then series and paralleling them for desired voltage and current. no where in the patent does it say that each core produced a crap load of power....it was all combined ;D

HANON posted this below. i thank him for translation.


Shadow this is for you......http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/electromagnetism/solenoid

and i don't get that sparky stuff with my solid state timing board.....(thanks to Patrick for the design idea)

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1152 on: March 28, 2014, 05:02:57 AM »
Marathonman:

This is in response to your last reply to Dieter.

What you are saying is contradictory to the Figuera patent which clearly specifies that current should go up and come down regularly for the system to work.

NO i am not contradicting Figueras and i am quite informed that the current has to rise and lower to mimic the rise and fall of AC sine wave. and that it can't happen with DC is useless in the production of MMF unless one makes the current rise and fall at AC cycles.

what it doesn't say is Figueras using a shit load of current like you are using. ( it states 100 volts at 1 Amp). this is what he used and this is what i am using. peak at 1 amp and fall to .1 amp end of story.

PS. try reading the post instead of scimming  you might be better off.... just a thought!

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1153 on: March 28, 2014, 08:49:37 AM »
Welcome MenofFather

Shadow update

I think my transformers are working properly but at a low voltage.
I also think it is because of the commutators I built. I am getting
about the same results from both the 32 and 16 contact versions.
I really don't know why the voltage is low.
The only encouraging thing is that for each transformer group of
three, the voltage increases as I measure voltage from the first
group through the fourth group.
The following is the voltages for each group of three transformers:

Group 1 = .4 analog meter .2 digital meter
Group 2 = .95                   .6
Group 3 = 1.55                1.1
Group 4 = 1.95                1.6
I have changed the air gap from about .035 to .008 and .002
the last I had to leave the clear office type tape in the gap.
The readings did not change between the .008 and .002
I am using a lawn mower 12 volt lead acid battery sometimes
with a trickle charger.
I machined the mild or hot rolled steel to within a .001 tolerance.
the three pieces of steel are through bolted at the top.
The primary legs are two times the length of the bar the coil
mounts on.

Any ideas why my voltage is so low?
Oh, I have a little over 100 turns of #18 = 1.023mm wire
the same length and turns on all coils.

Shadow
I not wery good understand. But maybe need add more turns on secondary or put in highter voltage to primary?

Offline marathonman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1154 on: March 28, 2014, 01:01:59 PM »
 MenofFather;

Use the link above to get the proper number of windings and with more voltage you should see better results. just remember that the length is the length of your coil not the core length.
GOOD LUCK and HAPPY FIGUERING!