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Author Topic: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device  (Read 70224 times)

Russell Lee

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www.squidoo.com/pinwheelgenerator   This generator produces at least seven times the energy than it needs to run.
                Thank you, Russell Lee

TinselKoala

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 09:33:44 PM »
No, it doesn't.

You're welcome,
--TK.

Russell Lee

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 07:54:38 PM »
The qualified individual would see that when the motor turns the large wheel, turning the drive sprocket, both the bracket and the 500 lbs of weight it holds climbs the main chain bringing a 500lb+ pull to the chain to begin energy generation. As the motor is pulling the weight up the chain toward the top it is drawing it's energy from the running generator, and a small amount from the battery.  When the weight reaches the top the motor stops and the weight/bracket slowely descends, pulling the chain to generate the 'free' energy into the battery.  This is excess energy being produced by the system, it is not needed to be used for the machine's functioning.  When the weight arrives at the bottom, the motor turns on again a moves the weight/bracket back up to the top.  If it takes 30 seconds to bring the weight to the top, and 3 minutes to descend to the bottom, the mechanism has produced almost 6 times the energy it used to operate.  The faster to the top, and the slower to the bottom, the more excess 'free to use' energy is produced.
 Simple design, simple to understand.

Aemilius

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 09:06:55 PM »

Russell Lee "Simple design, simple to understand."





fletcher

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 09:52:25 PM »
Time to rise & fall has nothing to do with it except for determining POWER [rate of doing WORK].

WORK in both instances is Force x Distance/Displacement which is the same for both rise & fall since the mass doesn't change nor the distance traveled.

This assumes NO ordinary system losses to frictions etc which would bring it automatically to sub-unity.

N.B.1. the Work-Energy Equivalence Principle is a doctrine of physics - it says that since Work units are the same as Energy units they are equivalent & interchangeable - therefore Work [fxd] is done to lift a mass & it is given energy of position [PE] which can be released as kinetic energy [KE] to do Work.

N.B.2. Energy is Capability or Capacity to do Work.

N.B.3. example: a hanging weight driven clock is given energy of position by raising the mass - the mass looses height over time - the KE of the mass does not translate into a one for one relationship with PE lost as height decreases - the 'missing' energy is the KE of the clock parts in motion, friction losses to heat, sound, windage etc - the main loss is to 'internal' energy [PE & KE] of the atoms of the system & can be reviewed by researching the history of thermodynamics.

This mass is raised quickly & falls very slowly but it is not OU.

andrea

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 04:22:38 PM »
www.squidoo.com/pinwheelgenerator   This generator produces at least seven times the energy than it needs to run.
                Thank you, Russell Lee

This project could be a good idea, but there's an enormous problem: the weights are not able to press water from the down piston to the upper, if the difference between weight eand the amount of water is not very high. I think that would be necessary a difference of 15 to one to push water at the proper height... This drawing explain the problem, was well explained yet by Rafael Ti in this previous topic  http://www.overunity.com/12586/mechanical-power-multiplier-device/msg331682/#msg331682

Anyway, the concept - rotation of 90°, and the weight that press water up - is interesting. Someone has suggests for solve the problem?


Russell Lee

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 07:18:00 PM »
It's important to remember that  during the elevating of the weights ,the energy is still being generated into the battery (minus whatever energy is being used by the  small motor) so there is nominal battery power loss during this phase.  The second phase just has the excess energy being generated by the fall of the weights. The energy for the ascent is being provided as it takes place, there is nothing needing energy in the second phase to deplete the battery charge so it all gets stored as excess energy not used in the whole process.
Time to rise & fall has nothing to do with it except for determining POWER [rate of doing WORK].

WORK in both instances is Force x Distance/Displacement which is the same for both rise & fall since the mass doesn't change nor the distance traveled.

This assumes NO ordinary system losses to frictions etc which would bring it automatically to sub-unity.

N.B.1. the Work-Energy Equivalence Principle is a doctrine of physics - it says that since Work units are the same as Energy units they are equivalent & interchangeable - therefore Work [fxd] is done to lift a mass & it is given energy of position [PE] which can be released as kinetic energy [KE] to do Work.

N.B.2. Energy is Capability or Capacity to do Work.

N.B.3. example: a hanging weight driven clock is given energy of position by raising the mass - the mass looses height over time - the KE of the mass does not translate into a one for one relationship with PE lost as height decreases - the 'missing' energy is the KE of the clock parts in motion, friction losses to heat, sound, windage etc - the main loss is to 'internal' energy [PE & KE] of the atoms of the system & can be reviewed by researching the history of thermodynamics.

This mass is raised quickly & falls very slowly but it is not OU.

Neo-X

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 04:43:20 AM »
@ andrea

Overunity in the picture u posted is possible because if u bend the thin tube at the mark 1kg, the water will flow and u can feedback it to the source. Thats the same principle why a perpetual waterwheel works.

@Russell Lee

Thank you very much for posting this.

Neo-X

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2012, 07:56:09 AM »
Here is an example of perpetual waterwheel http://youtube.com/watch?v=-KtFZMN7_Bw

Russell Lee is right. The slower the fall and the faster the heavy object ascend, the more energy is being extracted from the gravity.

Neo-X

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2012, 11:50:14 AM »
Okey lets check this theory if this was true using calculation and using the above example. We can say that the input power was the power to move the 500lbs weight on the top (lets say 10meters) for 30second and the output power was the power excerted by gravity to move the weight downward by 10meters for 3minutes.

Input Time = 30s
Output Time = 3x60= 180s
Mass = 500lbs = 226.79kg
Distance = 10m

Work = M x G x D
= 226.79 x 9.8 x 10
= 22225.42 joules

Input Power= W x Ti
= 22225.42 x 30
= 666762.6 watts

Output Power = W x To
= 22225.42 x 180
= 4000575.6 watts

Excess Power = Po - Pi
= 4000575.6 - 666762.6
= 3,333,813 watts
very simple calculation :)

tagor

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2012, 12:27:27 PM »
Excess Power = Po - Pi
= 4000575.6 - 666762.6
= 3,333,813 watts
very simple calculation :)

you are a very good magician !

Neo-X

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2012, 12:30:07 PM »
Lol :) i dont know how to calculate it.. Someone help to solve this..

CuriousChris

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 12:32:29 PM »
Here is an example of perpetual waterwheel http://youtube.com/watch?v=-KtFZMN7_Bw

Russell Lee is right. The slower the fall and the faster the heavy object ascend, the more energy is being extracted from the gravity.

What makes you think that video shows perpetual motion? Apart from the title that is.

CuriousChris

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 11:41:29 PM »
To calculate whether this device will work. you need to look at each component of the overall process.

There are three main components to look at

1/ How heavy must the weights be to raise the fluid to the high side of the mechanism?
2/ Once the fluid is raised how much energy is required to rotate the wheel to move the liquid to the lower position again.
3/ How much energy is extracted in 1/ and is it greater than 2/. in other words is it overunity?

For 1 you need to look at hydraulics for the answer. Andrea's excellent diagram is a clue to the answer. you need to understand hydraulics to understand how much fluid can be moved.

For 2 it is imperative to calculate the CENTER OF GRAVITY for the wheel. if its below the axle (it is) then you need to use energy to make the wheel rotate. the center of gravity is not always intuitive. For example in this mechanism the heavy weight goes to the lowest position to raise the fluid this moves the center of balance well below the axle. therefore a LOT of force is required to rotate the wheel. the fluid moving to the top of the wheel DOES NOT balance out the weight.

For 3 don't forget to subtract the force required to raise the fluid to the top reservoir before you calculate the force available to generate electricity.


  Increase the mass on the other end of the rope so that it is just at your own mass value and pull, that would be the most force you can apply without assistance.  Now add more mass and pull, you are still applying the max value that you can but now you go up instead. 
This is incorrect you must increase the force you apply to make yourself lift up off the floor.

For example with your pulley analogy. If the you weigh 70Kg's and the weight you are trying to lift weighs 60kg's then to lift that weight you must apply 60Kg's of force.

Now if you increase the weight to say 75kg's then you must apply at least 70kg's of lift to raise your own feet off the floor. thus you have increased the amount of 'pull' you put into the rope.

You cannot use terms like "the max value you can" this is a meaningless phrase. In the above example assuming you had enough strength to lift yourself off the floor. and you applied ALL this force (strength) to the 60Kg weight then the weight would rise very rapidly, much faster than when you lifted yourself off the floor.

This difference in speed is immortalised in the formula F=ma

F=Force (strength)
m=mass (60kg or 70kg)
a=(acceleration)




CuriousChris

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Re: Seven times more energy output than input: Power Multiplier Device
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 12:49:32 AM »
Clearly webby you totally missed my point. your understanding of physics is very low indeed. Please take the time to read some basic physic literature.

The amount of force you can apply is not, read that, NOT limited by gravity. Gravity holds you to the ground ONLY because the weight you are trying to lift is lighter than you. Gravity is NOT limiting the amount of force you apply, gravity is CHOOSING(if you can put it that way) to let the smaller mass rise above the ground because of the two weights it is the lightest.

Now I understand  TinselKoala's terse response. trying to explain even the simplest physics to some people is an extraordinary waste of time.

in the words of Tinsel

It doesn't work!