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Author Topic: New comer needs any and all help  (Read 90768 times)

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2012, 11:37:14 PM »
Great instructions coffman! Thanks..
I'm at ratshack now please tell me the right resistors to use make sure to let me know if its 8th 4th half watt or what.
Also could I have this work on a 9v battery? If so what do I need to get here. I have all the transistors y'all have mentioned.

TinselKoala

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2012, 01:38:41 AM »
According to this diagram by Bedini, you can run on a nine-volt battery, if you have the right number of turns on your coils. I haven't built this version myself so I can't testify, but I think lots of people have done it. Since you are having so much fun, I think I'll build one alongside, and maybe we can help each other figure out how to get them working. I don't have two different gauges of wire, so I'll be doing three windings of the same #27 magnet wire and connecting two in parallel to make the thicker wire equivalent.

You can't go wrong with larger Watt (power) handling resistors, if you have the physical room for them. I find that my JT circuits need 2 or 3 Watt resistors in the base circuit, since they handle high currents and do get hot. I don't know if Radio Shack will have high-power resistors in the values you need. If necessary you can "build up" a higher power handling resistor out of smaller ones. For example, if you take two, 100 Ohm 1/2 Watt resistors and put them in parallel, you will have a 50 Ohm, 1 Watt equivalent. But you should be able to find a 680 Ohm, 1/2 watt resistor easily enough. If it gets really hot during operation you can build up a higher power equivalent if necessary.

Also, don't worry if you can't find the exact specified value for ohms, or capacitance if you need caps. You can build up the correct value out of smaller or larger resistors or capacitors (see Wiki on how to calculate series and parallel resistances, series and parallel capacitances) , and all components have a tolerance range anyway. Especially caps, they will vary by 20 percent or more sometimes and still work fine for most purposes. For the diode, specified 1n914, you can use just about any fast switching diode like 1n4148, even your dual Schottky rectifier from your old monitor would probably work. (one side of it). But Radio Shack will have the 1n914. You might want to get some more robust diodes to play around with as well, like the 1n4001 thru 1n4007 rectifiers.

Apparently Radio Shack doesn't have the simple, bare NE-2 style neon bulbs any more. The mounted neon indicators that are for 120 V service all have resistors inside them but they are still suitable. If I didn't have my big box of NE-2s,  I'd get the cheapest one from Radio Shack and take it apart to get the bare neon bulb out of it; this will be better for your transistor protector neon use than using the stock ones with resistors, but probably isn't strictly necessary.

You can order whatever you need from DigiKey over the internet and in most cases it will arrive in your mailbox in three days.

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2012, 02:07:19 AM »
OK great your gonna build one wit me great. Although I do not have any more wire so I'll have to wait to get some. Hopefully I can have some by tomorrow. I used to work at a place that rebuilt motors and he usually sells me wire by the pound. Only thing is I'm not sure how many pounds to get. I know my spool is very small and don't take much to make ten turns.
But if you could tell me again what sizes and about how heavy u think I should get we could get it started hopefully by tomorrow

TinselKoala

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2012, 07:02:10 AM »
OK.... well, I just wound a coil "sort of" according to the Bedini diagram above and my wire. I have a big spool, over nine pounds, of #27 magnet wire, so I'm trying to use it up. I took two smaller spools and wound them up so now I have three spools of #27 AWG enameled magnet wire. I made a bobbin using my hole saw to cut out some disks and I used a steel bolt for the core, it's a number 10 bolt and I put a piece of heatshrink on the bolt to space the end disks at 1 1/2 inch apart. Then I chucked the whole thing in the drill and took the three strands of #27 from the three spools and wound 800 turns onto the bobbin. Before I started I twisted the two ends from the smaller spools together so I could tell which were going to be the "thick" wire. I made some little holes in the end pieces for the wire ends to come out.

The 800 x 3 turns of #27 wire, the bolt, the end pieces and the feed wires altogether weigh about 9 1/4 ounces. So you can figure up or down from there for your wire, whatever's available. There are online calculators that will tell you exactly how much weight, length, number of turns, etc for coils of all types, just google "coil wire calculator" and have at it.

I also made a video showing testing this coil with a 2n3055 transistor and some magnets spun by the drill. I'm uploading it to YT now and I'll post a link when it's done.

(the weight of the ruler is not included in what's shown on the scale)

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2012, 07:12:52 AM »
For some reason the attachment won't load on my phone. I don't really understand what u mean by disc. Did the wire get wrapped on the disc. And what do u mean by tested the transistor out. How did u do that and how do u know u passed or failed the test..
Glad u got your coils done. Wait on me to do mine now ha. I'll have the wire tomorrow. I guess I'll get at least 2lbs of 22 and 26g

WilbyInebriated

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2012, 07:15:29 AM »
OK.... well, I just wound a coil "sort of" according to the Bedini diagram above and my wire. I have a big spool, over nine pounds, of #27 magnet wire, so I'm trying to use it up. I took two smaller spools and wound them up so now I have three spools of #27 AWG enameled magnet wire. I made a bobbin using my hole saw to cut out some disks and I used a steel bolt for the core, it's a number 10 bolt and I put a piece of heatshrink on the bolt to space the end disks at 1 1/2 inch apart. Then I chucked the whole thing in the drill and took the three strands of #27 from the three spools and wound 800 turns onto the bobbin. Before I started I twisted the two ends from the smaller spools together so I could tell which were going to be the "thick" wire. I made some little holes in the end pieces for the wire ends to come out.

The 800 x 3 turns of #27 wire, the bolt, the end pieces and the feed wires altogether weigh about 9 1/4 ounces. So you can figure up or down from there for your wire, whatever's available. There are online calculators that will tell you exactly how much weight, length, number of turns, etc for coils of all types, just google "coil wire calculator" and have at it.

I also made a video showing testing this coil with a 2n3055 transistor and some magnets spun by the drill. I'm uploading it to YT now and I'll post a link when it's done.

(the weight of the ruler is not included in what's shown on the scale)
why are you totally deviating from any of the posted schematics and calling it a "bedini coil"?

TinselKoala

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2012, 07:32:41 AM »
why are you totally deviating from any of the posted schematics and calling it a "bedini coil"?

Just to piss you off.

Do you really think that using two strands of #27 is significantly different from using a single strand of #23? If you do, then I suggest that you demonstrate the validity of your contention by winding some coils and showing how they materially differ. If not..... then just go back to being helpful.
And if you examine the diagram I posted, that is in BEDINI'S OWN HAND, you will see that he specifies up to 800 turns, he does not use a 2n3055 like the diagram YOU posted, and he does not use a neon.

So why are you posting diagrams and calling them "Bedini" schematics, since they don't look anything like what BEDINI HIMSELF drew? I'll tell you why: it's because you know enough about what you are doing that you can make reasonable substitutions and variations and still expect the thing to work just as Bedini himself intended. Not only that, but also Bedini himself published many variations on the same basic circuit.

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2012, 07:40:57 AM »
Haha. Nice!!!
I don't care if its the way bendini drew it or not as long as I can get this rotor to spin like it should..

WilbyInebriated

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2012, 07:41:40 AM »
Just to piss you off.

Do you really think that using two strands of #27 is significantly different from using a single strand of #23? If you do, then I suggest that you demonstrate the validity of your contention by winding some coils and showing how they materially differ. If not..... then just go back to being helpful.
And if you examine the diagram I posted, that is in BEDINI'S OWN HAND, you will see that he specifies up to 800 turns, he does not use a 2n3055 like the diagram YOU posted, and he does not use a neon.

So why are you posting diagrams and calling them "Bedini" schematics, since they don't look anything like what BEDINI HIMSELF drew? I'll tell you why: it's because you know enough about what you are doing that you can make reasonable substitutions and variations and still expect the thing to work just as Bedini himself intended. Not only that, but also Bedini himself published many variations on the same basic circuit.
you failed... ::) all you did was demonstrate your usual lack of attention to detail... ::)

if you examine the diagram YOU posted, that is in BEDINI'S OWN HAND, you will see it specifies BIFILAR...  ::)  and what gauge does it specify?

but enough of your asinine red herrings... i'll ask you again:
why are you totally deviating from the schematic and calling it a "bedini coil"?


edit: we are trying to help this guy get a working pulse motor based off the simplified bedini circuit. a guy who is an admitted beginner. stop adding confusion with your trifilar... ::) 

TinselKoala

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2012, 09:10:56 AM »
Wilby, you are the one adding confusion. In no sense is my coil "trifilar" electrically. I simply used two strands of #27, tied together at both ends, instead of a single strand of #23.  You will note that Bedini says "450-800 turns." My two strands of #27 have a cross sectional area of 0.204 mm2 and one strand of #23 has area 0.258 mm2. This means that my 800 turns of doubled #27 will have slightly more resistance than 800 turns of #23. The variation in the allowed length of Bedini's windings results in a far greater range of resistance and inductance than the difference between a doubled #27 and a single #23 strand at the same length. And do you really think that the difference between #26 and #27 is going to be significant, if the allowed turn range is from 450 to 800? You are really making yourself look sillier than usual.

Do you really want to help him get a motor working? Then make a video of your own, showing how the coil functions and what it's supposed to do. I will wager that mine performs electrically just as any other Bedini North Pole Motor coil of the same physical dimensions. I am a little uncertain about using the bolt for the core. We shall see how it works out, and if it doesn't work according to plan... .guess what, I'll wind another coil using my same #27 wire, unless you can PROVE ME WRONG by a demonstration of your own that illustrates a significant difference in performance due to my choice of wire gauge.

How to test the Bedini coil and circuit with no rotor, and what its performance looks like on the oscilloscope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ac0rbEc_0

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2012, 09:21:22 AM »
I'm still confused about these disc..

WilbyInebriated

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2012, 10:02:17 AM »
...snipped tk's asinine logical fallacies...

How to test the Bedini coil and circuit with no rotor, and what its performance looks like on the oscilloscope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ac0rbEc_0
prove you wrong like i did regarding your hypothesis about mosfet performance?  ::)  your repetitive logical fallacies bore me.

idiot. he wants a rotor... and he doesn't have an oscilliscope and probably doesn't know how to use one. have you even listened to a word jhsmith has even said? and what exactly is your point? other than being a prick?

jhsmith87

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2012, 11:14:16 AM »
Come on dude.. I'm asking y'all please don't start a pis*in contest here. U have what u think is right so does he. I'm asking for ANY AND ALL INFO. If u or any one else has a different method that's fine there's more than one way to skin a cat. So if u have other info I really wanna hear it. I don't want to hear u both argue over witch ones is better.  But I've asked the same question 2 times and haven't had a response due to the tread beeing cluttered with arguing.
So please if u have info even if its different than others I've got please give me details about it but if u must argue please do it on another thread. I'm hear to learn I thank everyone for any and all info they give. But I want to keep this thread friendly and informative. So please out of respect for me please keep the arguments somewhere else.

WilbyInebriated

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2012, 11:29:25 AM »
as you wish.

TinselKoala

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Re: New comer needs any and all help
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2012, 12:58:05 PM »
I'm still confused about these disc..

I'm sorry, jhsmith87, but Wilby seems to be my own personal troll and he follows me from thread to thread with the same old same old tired and irrelevant stuff. I was hoping he would behave and not start up, but as you see..... it didn't work out that way. It's my own fault for peeking.... he's on my ignore lists and I usually don't even read his posts.


You ask about these discs..... the coil is wound on a form, typically called a bobbin. It's like a spool of thread. It has a cylinder portion (the core) which in my case is just a bolt, and it has the disks, the round ends that are disk-shaped that keep the wire from coming off the ends of the bolt. I used a hole saw to cut a couple of holes in a piece of thin plywood and kept the "holes"... the disk-shaped cutouts that wind up inside the hole saw. These I sanded smooth and used as the ends of my coil bobbin. It makes a thing like a thread spool: two disks and a bolt. With a bit of heatshrink tubing on the bolt so the disks are spaced apart correctly. Then I wound the wire strands onto the bolt, between the disks, and I also used one of the disks as supports for the wire ends, as you can see in the video.

You can see these, I hope, very clearly in the photo I posted and in the video I linked. And I also hope you can see the neon is flashing when the magnet triggers the transistor through the coil, and that the circuit is just as Bedini described in the diagram he drew himself that I posted. And I also hope that you can see that, in spite of Wilby's irrelevant objections, that the scope shots are just what is expected from a Bedini coil. The only part that is "iffy" in my mind is my use of the thin bolt for the core. I suggest you do whatever you like for your own core, and to keep Wilby happy, please don't refer to my coil as a "Bedini Coil"... since its core isn't made of finishing nails or welding rods.

Now..... I have found that bearing systems give people a lot of trouble if they do not have access to precision machine tools. My solution to this is to recommend, and use, pivot bearings made from setscrews and pointed shafts. These can be extremely low friction and are very easy to construct. The disadvantage is that they work best if the shaft is vertical rather than horizontal. Bedini's North Pole Motor is generally shown with a horizontal rotor shaft, for a rotor that is in a vertical plane. I intend to try to build my example motor with pivot bearings and a vertical shaft, with the rotor in the horizontal plane. This may not work out because of the side loads due to the magnet interactions with the single coil, so I may have to use bushings or ball bearings in spite of my plan. But... will I be attacked by trolls, nattering that this is therefore not a Bedini motor? Probably. However, they will probably be unable to tell me what the significant difference in performance might be. Especially when I use it to charge a battery or a capacitor..... as I already have done with the "no moving parts" version in a video I just posted.