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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 6362648 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17685 on: August 11, 2017, 04:23:17 PM »
Nick,

those 300V spikes are there even with a 24V (or 2 x 12V in series) bulb in the 24V supply line?
Try to go down to 12V for now to lower these spikes or you might go for a higher voltage MOSFET like some IRFP460.

We are not trying to dampen the spikes yet by adding a drain/source cap, we first try to get half of the ringing signal by adding a cap.
This is a first step to continue to build / calculate an RC snubber.

Guess with a 271 tagged cap you mean 471  (470pF), if so, 2 of them in parallel (940pF) would probably be a correct value to half your ringing frequency, but
use your new scope to take a screenshot of that ringing both expanded as un-expanded.

Itsu


  Itsu:
  Yes, those reading were with the two 10k resistors on the yoke input. Not the full 24v.
  The cap that I mentioned is a 271, not the 471. It's a blue HV 14D271K capacitor, possibly 2000v, but it doesn't give the voltage, just the K at the end. The 152 cap is a 1000v, ceramic capacitor. I also have lots of the blue 472M caps, and some others as well.
   Ok then I'll try to half the ringing spikes, and not worry to much about the voltages for now.
   Once I have the snubbers calculated and working, I'll install the new fets on just 12v, to see what happens. Or even try it with a small 12v 5 watt solar panel with has an open reading of 22v.
    So also for now, I'll assume that there is a false reading of about 25% higher than the actual reading. Which may make the difference of being able to drop the running voltages to under 200v.

  Hoppy my UC4420 drivers are only about 1.5 inches away from my fets. So, I'm not going to change that as yet, as it's means a whole new board, with new drivers, and much work, also. I think that I can get the voltages down, without having to do that. We'll see in any case.
   I'll be going to another town today, and will report back concerning these changes later tonight.

   Itsu: maybe try to see if you can get your spikes down under 200v,

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17685 on: August 11, 2017, 04:23:17 PM »

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17686 on: August 11, 2017, 05:29:23 PM »

  Itsu:
  Yes, those reading were with the two 10k resistors on the yoke input. Not the full 24v.
 
 So also for now, I'll assume that there is a false reading of about 25% higher than the actual reading. Which may make the difference of being able to drop the running voltages to under 200v.

  Hoppy my UC4420 drivers are only about 1.5 inches away from my fets. So, I'm not going to change that as yet, as it's means a whole new board, with new drivers, and much work, also. I think that I can get the voltages down, without having to do that. We'll see in any case.
   

Nick,

Please explain how the 2 x 10K resistors are connected to the yoke input?

Don't assume, measure correctly to be sure!

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17687 on: August 11, 2017, 05:37:07 PM »
Quote
Itsu:
  Yes, those reading were with the two 10k resistors on the yoke input. Not the full 24v.

Huh??  not sure what you mean by that.  Do you have 300V spikes when running your MOSFETs into a 10K resistive load??
I have seen your screenshots of those, they had these rounded off turnon times,
like here:  http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg508556/#msg508556
But no spikes seen there.

So what do you mean with the above statement?


Quote
The cap that I mentioned is a 271, not the 471. It's a blue HV 14D271K capacitor

A 271 tagged capacitor is 270pF, but if you mention:  HV 14D271K   then i think its NO capacitor but a varistor:
http://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/MOV14D.pdf

Quote
Itsu: maybe try to see if you can get your spikes down under 200v,

Working on that, i have seen a lot of smoke in the mean time, these spikes are not easy to tame.


I don't think is sensible to use (partly) defective MOSFETs in calculating a snubber.
Chance is that you have to redo the calculations again when the new MOSFETs are in.

Just put in the new MOSFETs and put the drains on 12V with some 12V bulb protection.
Use your new scope to show the ringing, and try to half that ringing using a capacitor across the drain / source.
Then we take it from there.

Itsu
 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 09:09:00 PM by itsu »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17687 on: August 11, 2017, 05:37:07 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17688 on: August 11, 2017, 09:45:59 PM »
Nick
the old girl will always be needed ..to keep your new one safe during unknown or sensitive testing [unwanted scope sizzle]

also never hesitate to ask for connection advise for "sniffing" [not direct connections] during possible scope sizzling events.

TK and others have good protocols for this [on the cheap], the newer scopes can be less forgiving in the "unintentional abuse" department.

--------------------------

Matt is a good man indeed !!



with gratitude and respect

Chet K

Dear Chet.

Wise words, indeed....

This one's for Matt.

Cheers Graham.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17689 on: August 12, 2017, 03:53:40 AM »
Huh??  not sure what you mean by that.  Do you have 300V spikes when running your MOSFETs into a 10K resistive load??
I have seen your screenshots of those, they had these rounded off turnon times,
like here:  http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg508556/#msg508556
But no spikes seen there.

So what do you mean with the above statement?


A 271 tagged capacitor is 270pF, but if you mention:  HV 14D271K   then i think its NO capacitor but a varistor:
http://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/MOV14D.pdf

Working on that, i have seen a lot of smoke in the mean time, these spikes are not easy to tame.


I don't think is sensible to use (partly) defective MOSFETs in calculating a snubber.
Chance is that you have to redo the calculations again when the new MOSFETs are in.

Just put in the new MOSFETs and put the drains on 12V with some 12V bulb protection.
Use your new scope to show the ringing, and try to half that ringing using a capacitor across the drain / source.
Then we take it from there.

Itsu
 

  No, you're right. I was running the full load on now, when using the older fets, I was on the full 24v, and not running them through the 10k resistors, anymore. And now, I do see 250 to 300v spikes, without any snubbers caps on.
   So, ok I'll put the new fets on, and run them off of a 12v, 7ah battery. And leave the 24v, 18w car bulb on for now, (which has not been taken off, yet).
    So, I was running the full 24v, but through the car bulb first, up to now. So, maybe it was on full 24 volts, but it was not running on full amperage. I hope that clears thing up. Sorry for the confusion, my fault.

   I'll check the blue HV 271 (which does not look like a varistor), but it may be, as it has different lettering or numbers on it, and if so I won't use it. I'll see if I can find one more 1.5nf 1000v, to match the single one of those that I do have.

   Although it's been 10 days since the digital scope was sent to me, I haven't got it yet. It should arrive any day now.

   I did pick up 3 bigger 200w, 130v bulbs at a hardware store, along with some plastic pvc 1 1/4 inch 90 degree curbs to make some new side supports for my grenade. 
   I'll also see what I can do to get the ringing down to 1/2.  As you can see, it's not easy to do, without killing the ringing, and still be able to get the voltage under 160v or so.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17689 on: August 12, 2017, 03:53:40 AM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17690 on: August 12, 2017, 08:48:35 AM »

I thought this article might help but since some of you
 appear to have invented a way of using a capacitor
that appears to be able to do the same job,
I would suggest if that is so perhaps you should patent it !
However, i know of no such technique reading this should help.


What is a Silicon Transient Voltage
 Suppressor and how does it work?
Application Note
Vishay General Semiconductor
www.vishay.com
Document Number: 88436
256
Revision: 02-Feb-07
By Bruce Hartwig
Senior Automotive Applications Engineer
Transient Voltage Suppressors (TVS’s) are devices used to
protect vulnerable circuits from electrical overstress such as
that   caused   by   electrostatic   discharge,   inductive   load
switching and induced lightning.
 Within the TVS, damaging
voltage  spikes  are  limited  by  clamping  or  avalanche  action
of a rugged silicon pn junction which reduces the amplitude
of the transient to a nondestructive level.
In  a  circuit,  the  TVS  should  be  “invisible”  until  a  transient
appears.  Electrical  parameters  such  as  breakdown  voltage
(V
BR
),   standby   (leakage)   current   (I
D
),   and   capacitance
should have no effect on normal circuit performance.
The  TVS  breakdown  voltage  is  usually  10  %  above  the
reverse standoff voltage (V
R
), which approximates the circuit
operating  voltage  to  limit  standby  current  and  to  allow  for
variations  in  V
BR
  caused  by  the  temp
erature  coefficient  of
the TVS. When a transient occurs, the TVS clamps instantly
to limit the spike voltage to a safe level, called the clamping
voltage (V
C
), while conducting potentially damaging current
away from the protected component.
Figure 1. Transients of Several Thousand Volts can be “clamped” to
a Safe Level by the TVS
Figure 2. Transient Current is Diverted to Ground Through TVS;
the Voltage Seen by the Protected Load is Limited to
the Clamping Voltage Level of the TVS
TVS’s  are  designed,  specified  and  tested  for  transient
voltage  protection,  while  a  Zener  diode  is  designed  and
specified for voltage regulation.
 For transient protection, the
designer’s choice is a TVS.
The surge power and surge current capability of the TVS are
proportional  to  its  junction  area.  Surge  ratings  for  silicon
TVS  families  are  normally  specified  in  kilowatts  of  peak
pulse  power  (P
PP
)  during  a  given  waveform.  Early  devices
were  specified  with  a  10/1000  μs  waveform  (10  μs  rise  to
peak  and  1000  μs  exponential  decay  to  one  half  peak),
while  more  recent  product  introductions  are  rated  for  an
8/20ìs  test  waveform.  Power  ratings  range  from  5  kW  for
10/1000  μs,  down  to  400  W  for  8/20  μs.  This  power  is
derived from the product of the peak voltage across the TVS
and the peak current conducted through the device.
Packaging  covers  a  broad  spectrum  according  the  need.
Discrete  axial  leaded  components  are  available  in  peak
pulse  power  ratings  of  400  W,  500  W,  600  W,  1.5  kW  and
5  kW.  The  higher  power  devic

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17691 on: August 12, 2017, 10:07:37 AM »
Nick,

Try to get hold of one or two 12V / 50W auto headlamp bulb, which will give you a more realistic limited current draw than your 24V/18W bulb which will limit current to well under 1 Amp at both 24V and 12V.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17691 on: August 12, 2017, 10:07:37 AM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17692 on: August 12, 2017, 11:06:55 AM »
AG,

i tried a TVS (54V) across the drain / source, but it started smoking after a few seconds, even when putting 2 in series (108V) they smoke quickly.
I guess the spike (400V) is to high / broad to be tamed by a TVS.   I did tame the spike though.

Then i tried an additional diode across the installed RC snubber resistor creating an RCD snubber, but allthough it caused the spike to be lowered to about 330V, it
started now frying the resistor in the snubber.   
Guess i need a bigger (2W) snubber resistor (180 Ohm in my case).

Finally i used on top of the earlier calculated RC snubber (to tame the ringing) the snubber setup from Oleg, see picture below.
It reduces the spike to about 150V.
It creates some extra ringing, but that is quite minimal.
I had 1 MOSFET starting to oscillate sometimes, but was able to tackle that with using these small ferrite beads on the MOSFETs gate leads.

This Oleg snubber consists of 2x UF4007 diodes VD6 and VD7, a 1uF capacitor C15 and a 1K resistor R26 (1W in my case).

Perhaps it could be improved upon by using a high quality ceramic cap, and/or schottky diodes.
Nothing gets hot quickly now.

Perhaps i need to install this Oleg snubber first, then calculate a snubber for the ringing.

The ringing RC snubber is directly across the MOSFETs drain / source,  the Oleg spike snubber is across the Yoke primaries.


Itsu

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17693 on: August 12, 2017, 01:30:58 PM »
AG,

i tried a TVS (54V) across the drain / source, but it started smoking after a few seconds, even when putting 2 in series (108V) they smoke quickly.
I guess the spike (400V) is to high / broad to be tamed by a TVS.   I did tame the spike though.

Then i tried an additional diode across the installed RC snubber resistor creating an RCD snubber, but allthough it caused the spike to be lowered to about 330V, it
started now frying the resistor in the snubber.   
Guess i need a bigger (2W) snubber resistor (180 Ohm in my case).

Finally i used on top of the earlier calculated RC snubber (to tame the ringing) the snubber setup from Oleg, see picture below.
It reduces the spike to about 150V.
It creates some extra ringing, but that is quite minimal.
I had 1 MOSFET starting to oscillate sometimes, but was able to tackle that with using these small ferrite beads on the MOSFETs gate leads.

This Oleg snubber consists of 2x UF4007 diodes VD6 and VD7, a 1uF capacitor C15 and a 1K resistor R26 (1W in my case).

Perhaps it could be improved upon by using a high quality ceramic cap, and/or schottky diodes.
Nothing gets hot quickly now.

Perhaps i need to install this Oleg snubber first, then calculate a snubber for the ringing.

The ringing RC snubber is directly across the MOSFETs drain / source,  the Oleg spike snubber is across the Yoke primaries.


Itsu
yes that's the type of circuit I'm using I have IRF 150' since day one although I did try a FAST IGBT that worked too with over shoots. Now I have IRF150 I don't get any over shoots or heating at all but my yoke is a toroid wound bi-filar as I said with 8+8 turns the dead zone if filled with sine waves (harmonics). The Russians used a barium based yoke, I don't think many will have this it's the key as and its all done in the coils as far as I can see.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17693 on: August 12, 2017, 01:30:58 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17694 on: August 12, 2017, 02:01:43 PM »
The Russians used a barium based yoke, I don't think many will have this it's the key as and its all done in the coils as far as I can see.

Yes, If these devices are genuine, then I too believe this is probably the key. I mentioned this along time back but have never been able to source a supply. Apparently some of the vintage 60's loudspeaker magnets and radio rod aerials had barium content.This is a primary reason why I stopped experimenting. Like Nick. I'm also concerned that the modus operandi might be NMR.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17695 on: August 12, 2017, 06:16:34 PM »
   I doubt it Hoppy. As Tariel did not even have a yoke on his device. Just air.
So, then NMR from the air?  Maybe,  that's what Akula said, according to T-1000. But again,  I doubt it.

   I was up till 1am again last night working on this spike/ringing snubber protection thing, which is no easy matter to achieve.
   I'm still working on it.
   
    Itsu: So, what exact ringing frequency should I be aiming for then? Around 900KHz, or so? In order to tame the ringing to 1/2.
As it's a bit confusing to me still especially when using this older scope with no readings to go by, and having to do all the math.        I may not have all the exact needed capacitors for this test, either. Therefore I don't have a full assortment to chose from.
Should I try a 102, instead of the 152, or the 222. I tried the varistor 14D271 on as well. But, it doesn't drop the voltage under 200v.  So, I'll stop trying to get the voltage down under 200v, for now, and focus on the 1/2 ringing frequency.

   Once I can also get the ringing down to under 160v or so, I'll place the new fets on. As the new fet could fry before I know it, at 250v or higher voltages. And I don't have access to other car bulbs for now.
   If I use a 12v power source (7AH battery) for the yoke input, won't that change the ringing frequency? And confuse the needed ringing clamp voltages?
 
    The older fets are working well enough to test with, and get into the snubber ball park. Once those fet are working under 200v, I'll place the new fets on. And also re-test and re-adjust the snubber ringing using a higher load at the bulbs.
Maybe one of my new 200w bulbs, (or two, or three bulbs) on the output should drop the voltage somewhat. 
On the Mazilli those bulbs would actually raise the voltage, instead of dropping it.

   I'm wondering now, what will happen when I connect my Kacher onto the induction circuit. It has 5mm streamers, so it's over 5000v. What will happen then... Should I look for smoke signals? While keeping the scope further away from the flames.
Anyways, I'm not there yet.
 

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17695 on: August 12, 2017, 06:16:34 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17696 on: August 12, 2017, 07:07:33 PM »
   I doubt it Hoppy. As Tariel did not even have a yoke on his device.
 

A yoke is not the be all or end all Nick for use as a transformer core.  Anyway, could you see inside Tariels green box or tin box etc?? Even my magnifying glass won't let me do that. ;D

You will be wasting your time with working out the snubber values using your 24V bulb, as you need to have a supply current that is limited but in the same ball park as that expected when you have a reasonablly sized lamp load. This is why I suggested that you get hold of a couple of 12V/50W auto lamps that will give you up to around an 8A draw with two in series / parallel or 4A with just one in series with the PSU supply line.
 

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17697 on: August 12, 2017, 07:26:00 PM »

Nick,

you should try to half the ringing frequency you have, by adding a cap across the drain / source.
A lower voltage should not influence this ringing frequency as it mainly is caused by the inductances and capacitances of your yoke coils (primary and secondaries).

Last screenshot you showed a ringing frequency of 1.98Mhz, so based on that you should try to aim for 900Khz ringing frequency by adding a cap.
I think it would be more easy for you to wait for your new scope which probably shows you the ringing frequency (expanded) in boxes on the screen.

I cannot calculate this half ringing frequency for you as you have a unique setup there, so you have to find it yourself by trying out different values of caps.
The procedure i have linked says to start with 100pF and continue from there untill you find the correct cap.
You don't have to solder in the caps each time, just carefully make a connection with a drain / source and see on your scope what it does.
You should see a double time inbetween the 2 ringing peaks, that means half the frequency.


My kacher had little or no effect on the yoke signals, but it could influence / damage electronic stuff around it (scopes, PS's, DMM's, laptops, etc.).

Itsu


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17698 on: August 12, 2017, 08:03:29 PM »
A yoke is not the be all or end all Nick for use as a transformer core.  Anyway, could you see inside Tariels green box or tin box etc?? Even my magnifying glass won't let me do that. ;D

You will be wasting your time with working out the snubber values using your 24V bulb, as you need to have a supply current that is limited but in the same ball park as that expected when you have a reasonablly sized lamp load. This is why I suggested that you get hold of a couple of 12V/50W auto lamps that will give you up to around an 8A draw with two in series / parallel or 5A with just one in series with the PSU supply line.
The Hoppy / Nick transformer thing there is another device where some guy (i don't know SR193) forget his name uses a similar size  tube with a EHT driver and winding driven by a tuned frequency and what looks like a grenade on top a bit like the Don Smith thing) my point is this (ignoring negative stupidity) as Nick said no yoke, well if he uses no yoke the must go in at HF end  the frequency) are you with me up till now ?  well if the Mustash WV is 3 x F what is F ? or perhaps a harmonic all you have to go is find your magic frequency where you live and you're in business? but at a perhaps reduced power? if the phenomena works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g

Also TK clip with subtitles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fEkoPQIQo
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 10:16:43 PM by AlienGrey »

Offline forest

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17699 on: August 12, 2017, 10:04:04 PM »
About Kapanadze 2004 year device : there is a very interesting moment when he cannot get spark from the inverter powered by a battery and they talk about battery being flat.

 

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