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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 8507292 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17400 on: June 13, 2017, 10:40:42 PM »
    Itsu:
   The Stalker diagram that you posted, is not the same as the connections on the Pinoytech set up for the TL494 part of the circuit.
  I had previously tried the Stalker way of doing it, also, but it produced the same problem as the previous TopRuslan 7 set up. Which is where Stalkers circuit idea came from, in any case. So... please look at the Pinoy's layout of the TL494 part of the blue PCB circuit that I just posted in my second to last post, but I removed it afterwards due to oversize.  As that is how I have the TL circuit part connected up.

   My resistors are all 1000 ohm even though the red painted strip is almost orange on two of them, they are are also 1k. I'm trying to stick with the schematics. I did previously follow Verpie's advice and had lower value resistors on. Like 460 ohm to ground, and 10 ohm to the fet drivers. But, I changed those to new resistors as in the Stalker diagram that you just posted.
  Yes, I'm still getting interference of some sort on my scope signals from the gates, not as bad, perhaps. But, it's hard to tell exactly.
  I connected the grounds all together now, as in the STAR formation, to my earth ground line. That helps a little, but not really well enough. The fets are staying cold, so far. But, I have no output at 3t or 168t coils, as yet. Yoke is connected to the fets, and to the 24v power supply. And the grounds are all connected together in the star formation to my earth ground now. Since the cause of the problem may be bad grounding between all the circuits. At least that is what I'm checking on now.

  Sorry TK last nights tests were a dud. No fireworks... 
  Well actually, I did have another filter cap blow in my face like a big firecracker. You would have enjoyed seeing that, maybe.
It was my fault though, as I placed the wrong value cap as a filter cap by accident, somehow. Been having lots of accidents, lately. Working late at night with low lighting levels.


Nick,

i toke that pinoytech PCB layout and created the below (TL494) diagram from it, so that is how i understand you have it connected.

Only difference might be the output resistors R3 - R6  (i have added the C1 decoupling cap myself).

After i  build it on a breadboard, it seems to function well (my floating output levels in yesterdays screenshot were because of a crappy breadboard) even with the 1.5 / 1K output resistors i have nice returns to ground levels now.

The frequency varies from 12Khz to 196KHz,  the duty cycle from 0.3% to 44%, no glitches or oscillations seen.

So if you have problems with this basic TL494 setup (only the TL494 setup), then please try to catch it on video as something must be wrong in your connectons somewhere.

Itsu   

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17400 on: June 13, 2017, 10:40:42 PM »

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17401 on: June 13, 2017, 11:18:31 PM »
    Yes, that is the circuit that I'm using. Although you've drawn it a little differently. Thanks for trying it out, and confirming that you were able to get it to run with no signal distortions.. That's good news.
   However I do still have some issues, to iron out.
   Here is a close up view of my TL connections. Pinoy version.

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17402 on: June 14, 2017, 10:44:49 AM »

Nick,

i have drawn it the same way as the Stalker diagram for easy comparing.
Yes, your close up view shows what i had drawn.

Make sure this little part work fine, then take the next step by adding the drivers and retest, etc.

As you do not have snubbers installed on your MOSFETs (only the MUR's), and not using the lossless clamp layout, you can expect
nasty spikes etc. when driving the yokes primaries, so start with automotive bulbs as loads like suggested by verpies above.


Itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17402 on: June 14, 2017, 10:44:49 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17403 on: June 14, 2017, 04:22:41 PM »
  Itsu:
  What I have noticed in last nights testing was that the TL494 works fine through out the frequency ranges while the duty cycle is at full duty, or nearly full duty cycle. But still showing at least 4.5v output at pin 9 or 10. If by adjusting one or both controllers the voltage drops below 4.5v, at those pins, the signal messes up. And the best working voltages readings from the 9 and 10 pin is between 5.2v down to 4.5v, but no less than 4.5.  It can't handle getting less than 4.5v to those two pins, 9 and 10, without messing up.
   Any ideas on what to do about that?

   The device is now running on 24v from my PSU, to the yoke and through it's filters and choke coil to the yoke center tap.
   The separate filtered 12v is going to the TL chip, and filtered 15v is going to the UC4420 drivers.
   The Yoke is connected now, to the fets, and is receiving the filtered 24v input to it at the center tap.
   Earth ground is in the STAR formation. 
   Fets are staying stone cold, but no bulbs are lighting on 3t or 28t yoke coil.   
   I still don't know why that's like that. So, I'm looking into it. 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17404 on: June 14, 2017, 05:12:18 PM »
Note how the 494 "outputs" actually work. They are internal transistors, with the Collectors on pins 8 and 11 and the Emitters on pins 9 and 10. The Collectors should be supplied with the operating voltage and when the transistors switch on this voltage is passed to the Emitter pins, which should be connected _directly_ to the input Pins 3 of the 4420s. The 1k pulldowns assure that the 4420 turns off hard when the 494 internal output transistors turn off. What is the reason for the 1.5 k resistors in series with the connections to the 4420s?  I don't think these should be there at all. With 15 volts supplied to the Collectors of the 494 internal output transistors there should be no need for any series resistor between the Emitters (pins 9 and 10) and the 4420 signal input pins 3.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17404 on: June 14, 2017, 05:12:18 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17405 on: June 14, 2017, 05:39:41 PM »
   TK:
   Ok, well if that was in reference to my circuit. I should also mention that I did previously have installed 10 ohm resistors going from TL pins 9 and 10 to the drivers, and only 460ohm as the pull downs. I've since changed both those previously installed resistors to the presently installed new 1k resistors, both as pull downs as well as going to the driver chip. And, still the 10 ohm from the drivers to the fets. They are the bigger resistors that you can see on my last videos. Overkill on their wattage, so I'll down size them, on my next build.

   My snubbers are installed, they are the two 1k, 4 facing zeners, and the two MUR1530. And, the 10 ohm resistors on the gates. That's it.
   This is what it looks like now.
 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17406 on: June 14, 2017, 06:00:59 PM »
What is the voltage you are supplying to the Pins 8 and 11 of the 494?


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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17406 on: June 14, 2017, 06:00:59 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17407 on: June 14, 2017, 06:27:43 PM »
  Pin #8, 11, and 12 are getting 12v. Through the 12v voltage regulators and filters. Clean signal at the gates, no signals at the drains. I'm going to look into this later today.
 
  EDIT: Check the current pic of the drivers, in my last previous post. I just added it.

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17408 on: June 14, 2017, 06:36:47 PM »
  Itsu:
  What I have noticed in last nights testing was that the TL494 works fine through out the frequency ranges while the duty cycle is at full duty, or nearly full duty cycle. But still showing at least 4.5v output at pin 9 or 10. If by adjusting one or both controllers the voltage drops below 4.5v, at those pins, the signal messes up. And the best working voltages readings from the 9 and 10 pin is between 5.2v down to 4.5v, but no less than 4.5.  It can't handle getting less than 4.5v to those two pins, 9 and 10, without messing up.
   Any ideas on what to do about that?

   The device is now running on 24v from my PSU, to the yoke and through it's filters and choke coil to the yoke center tap.
   The separate filtered 12v is going to the TL chip, and filtered 15v is going to the UC4420 drivers.
   The Yoke is connected now, to the fets, and is receiving the filtered 24v input to it at the center tap.
   Earth ground is in the STAR formation. 
   Fets are staying stone cold, but no bulbs are lighting on 3t or 28t yoke coil.   
   I still don't know why that's like that. So, I'm looking into it.


Nick,

so you run the TL494 at +12V to pins 12, 11 and 8.

At it lowest frequency setting (12Khz at my setup) and max. duty cycle setting (44% at my setup) my Fluke DMM at the DC Voltage setting shows 4.7V when measuring pin 10 output
compared to ground.   This is the rms value of the 44% pulsed square wave (11.7Vpp) on pin 10.

When reducing the duty cycle this DDM measured value goes down which is logical as the rms value drops.
It however never "messes up".

Please show a video when you see this "messing up" taking place, have the DDM hooked up and a scope to the same pin.
Try to retrigger the scope when any "messing up" appears.

Video here:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdTbmPMYZqM

Concerning the snubbers, it seem to me you have no snubbers installed right now, the two 1k resistors at the gates and 4 facing zeners are no snubbers like TK already
mentioned, and the two MUR1530 are merely aiding the internal diode in the MOSFETs.
Snubber components are installed at the drains of the MOSFETs

Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 10:28:20 PM by itsu »

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17408 on: June 14, 2017, 06:36:47 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17409 on: June 14, 2017, 10:57:47 PM »
Good day Itsu

Yes, I have also  thought about Ruslan's statement referring to the Grenade as a 1/2 wave antenna @ 4Mhz.

While a Half Wave antenna can be a *center fed dipole*, a Helical spiral wound single layer resonator (in Free Space) has also been shown to exhibit a Self Resonance  Frequency  (Fres) equal to approx Lambda/2.  (See attached doc.)  This is in *Free Space* so of course no ground is connected.  Likewise, I remember Ruslan testing the Fres of his grenade coil when it was NOT connected to ground and effectively isolated from the rest of the system.

Conversely, when a Helical spiral wound single layer resonator has one *end* connected to a ground plane, the Fres responds by *shifting* to the Lambda/4 resonant point. ie; Tesla Coil............
This is also covered in the attached doc.

"1) A free coil, i.e., a coil without connections, has its fundamental resonance when the wire length is λ/2 (where λ is the electrical wavelength). When one end of the coil is connected to an infinite ground plane, the fundamental SRF occurs when the conductor length is λ/4. The removal of the impedance discontinuity at one end effectively doubles the length of the single-conductor transmission line."

"When an impedance is connected in parallel with a coil, the impedance terminates the transmission line. The coil behaves as a short-circuited two-wire line of half its conductor length, which is the same as a one-wire transmission line of length equal to its conductor length. A two wire line presents a high impedance at its terminals when its electrical length is λ/4, i.e., when the length of the wire in it is λ/2.

Thus when the line is resonated against a variable reference capacitor, the data extrapolated to zero capacitance point to the λ/2 wire length resonance (provided that the test frequency is not too close to the SRF). This is true regardless of whether or not one terminal of the coil is grounded, because the ground is not involved in resonating the coil. That grounding one end of the coil has very little effect on the parallel resonance of an LC network is easily verified by removing and replacing the ground connection (the small changes that do occur are due to stray capacitance)."

and

"The lowest self-resonance in the presence of a ground-plane occurs at approximately half the frequency of the parallel-resonant SRF. It cannot however be excited in the absence of a ground plane because it is the fundamental series self-resonance; i.e., a generator can only deliver energy to an impedance, and so a counterpoise is required to complete the circuit if the coil is to be seriesdriven.
Note however, that it is possible to excite multiple-internal-reflection resonances at approximate sub-multiples of the SRF25 (sometimes called sub-harmonics). One of these will be close to the lowest series resonance, but it will have a different field pattern."

In short, I find  the cited information interesting, because it does *support* Ruslan's claim of a *Free Space* lambda/2 @ 4Mhz for the grenade.  And you are correct when you mention that when *grounded* the Fres is much lower, ie; it should in theory be 1/2 of the Lambda/2 Free Space Fres == Lambda/4, which would put a Lambda/2 of 4Mhz
at 2Mhz when at Lambda/4, which is close to your 1.8xxMhz (factoring in phase velocity propagation delay) .

I like the looks of the spectrogram of the *new grenade* configuration that you posted today.  Looks to have a 16dBm or greater S/N (signal/noise) sensitivity over the next  closest resonant peak.

take care, peace
lost_bro


Hi LB,

thanks for the info and PDF, very nice data.

I measured my Grenade like i would measure an antenna using my SA and VSWR bridge.
Range from 9KHz to 20MHz, see the screenshot below.

The advantage is that one side of the coil is grounded, like it suppose to be in the Ruslan setup.
A whole new range of resonance points pops up  this way.

For what its worth,   video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqne9EesB9A

I will now wind an inductor (half length = 18.25m) in a bifilar way around the grenades lower part to check out its influence.


Regards Itsu

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17410 on: June 15, 2017, 09:08:15 AM »
  Pin #8, 11, and 12 are getting 12v. Through the 12v voltage regulators and filters. Clean signal at the gates, no signals at the drains. I'm going to look into this later today.
 
  EDIT: Check the current pic of the drivers, in my last previous post. I just added it.

You will have no signal at the Drains unless the load and its power are connected.
Then when load and its supply power are connected and the mosfet is OFF, the Drain voltage (referenced to Source) will be at the supply voltage, and when the mosfet is ON the Drain-Source voltage will drop to zero or just barely above zero.

I strongly recommend getting rid of the series resistor between the 494's pins 9 and 10 outputs and the pin 2 inputs of the 4420s. With a 1k pulldown _and_ a 1k series resistor you are effectively halving the voltage delivered to the 4420's signal input. The 4420 has internal zeners protecting the input, so you can drive it with the full 12 volt (or just under) from the 494's Emitter outputs. Just use the 1k pulldowns, without any series resistors between the 494 and the 4420s.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17410 on: June 15, 2017, 09:08:15 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17411 on: June 15, 2017, 03:51:41 PM »
  TK:
  I had previously installed two 10 ohm resistors from pin 9 and 10 to the fet drivers. But, those two resistors did not help, nor work any better.
  As I had mentioned in the previous post, the yoke IS connected. The power (24v, 10A) is ON to yoke, and the yoke is connected to the mosfets, their drivers, and the TL circuit. A load is on the yoke secondary 28t coil, a 10w, or 100w bulb. Makes no difference what bulb I load it with.
 
   Last night I changed the 20k pot on the duty cycle controller to a brand new 50k pot. But, the signals still mess up when the output pins 9, 10 show they are getting less than 4.5v. Signals are ok with 4.5 to 5v. Maximum voltage output from the 9 and 10 pins is 5.2v.
  So, the 20k pot that I thought may be damaged. It's not damaged.

   Seams like the driver inputs from the TL circuit need at least 4.5v. Or, something else is not right.
  I'll remove the 1k resistor to the drivers pin 2 and 3 today, and report back.

   What does seam to help somewhat, is grounding both of the grounds, from the TL, as well as from the drivers to earth ground.
That helps to control the glitches, to some degree, but it still does it, just not as bad.

   So, what Itsu and you are saying is that the diagrams used by Stalker showing the same system of NO snubbers on the drains, except for the MUR's, are not correct??
  I previously did not notice any spikes at all, or hardly any, when the system was working.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17412 on: June 15, 2017, 04:19:23 PM »

   So, what Itsu and you are saying is that the diagrams used by Stalker showing the same system of NO snubbers on the drains, except for the MUR's, are not correct??

Its not a case of being correct or not to fit snubbers, as none of us know whether they are needed to produce a self-runner. A chaotic signal may be necessary - who knows for sure?? It may be that none of the circuits so far posted are correct for self-running.


Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17413 on: June 15, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »
  Agreed.
  But, my problem for now is not the spikes. It's the no output issue, and messy signals, instead. The device will not fire up, even when the scope is showing nice clean signals.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17414 on: June 15, 2017, 04:54:12 PM »
  Agreed.
  But, my problem for now is not the spikes. It's the no output issue, and messy signals, instead. The device will not fire up, even when the scope is showing nice clean signals.

Are you saying that you have no output at all now, irrespective of frequency and DC adjustments? Did you test the mosfets in accordance with the info posted by me and Verpies?

 

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