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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 9309515 times)

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12675 on: March 11, 2016, 05:42:14 PM »
Itsu:
Interesting to see the 100 MHz spectrum for the primary winding on your yoke.
You have a very nice spectrum analyzer there. As Verpies mentioned, varying impedance mismatches
through the frequency range may be affecting the results, but it is still interesting to see.


Jeg:
Good work. I suspect any small ringing or spikes on the gate or drain signals is probably
no so critical, except in the case where it might potentially lead to component failure. Otherwise a little
ringing or some switching spikes is probably OK, considering that Akula didn't seem to go to
too much trouble in that area.

We also probably need to watch out for any high voltage spikes feeding back from the tesla coil, once that part
of the circuitry is made active. :)


Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12676 on: March 11, 2016, 06:05:19 PM »
Hi Void
Yes I guess there is not any problem for little ringing considering a self running operation. It is just a matter of self satisfaction ;D


Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12677 on: March 11, 2016, 06:25:18 PM »
     Jeg: 
          Looks very nice, and neat. 
          Maybe use two 12v batteries, if you can, instead of the PS. 
          What kind of earth ground are you using?

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12678 on: March 11, 2016, 06:38:58 PM »

Hi Nick
I have plant in my garden a copper pipe just for the experiments.
For testing my push pull's operation I don't need batteries. Perhaps at a later stage if there is any suspicion of ground loops.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12679 on: March 11, 2016, 06:57:48 PM »
  Jeg: Ok, thanks for the reply.
   The reason I mentioned about the batteries, is because I notice some stray AC inductance on anything that's connected to my PS, even with adequate grounding. Which can at times also affect the signals read on a scope.
   Both my scope and PS are using the same AC ground from the grid.
   The earth ground is also very important, my 5 meter ground line, does nothing.  The 37 meter ground line into my water well does. But, it all depends on resonance, without proper resonance of the circuits, the ground lines don't do anything, or very little.

   Good luck with your circuits.  Looking good...

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12680 on: March 11, 2016, 08:15:07 PM »
I thought that Verpies meant this voltage to be 48v. But may be I am wrong.
You are not wrong and neither is Itsu.
It should be 48V in reference to ground.

So except for the long wires (especially the gate wires) i don't see anything obviously wrong with your setup.
Yes, and the C3 and C4 capacitors need not be rated 160V.  Mere 50V would be enough and lower voltage caps have better ESR, too.


I agree with Itsu about the the MOSFETs' wire layout.  Also, I hope you are using this schematic to connect the W1 windings to C3, C4, D3, D4, GND and VCC.  The EMI chokes L1, L2, L3 before the filter caps are a very good idea, too.
I am pretty sure that if you had copied  Itsu's transistor and driver connections layout, then you'd be rid of these spikes.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12681 on: March 11, 2016, 08:33:50 PM »
Hi Void
Yes I guess there is not any problem for little ringing considering a self running operation. It is just a matter of self satisfaction ;D

Hi Jeg. Sure. Also it sure can't hurt to get the PWM driver circuit working really clean and stable and efficient.
As others have commented, it is in the very least a good learning experience. :)

Offline starcruiser

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12682 on: March 11, 2016, 08:50:18 PM »
@ITSU,

Could you try and normalize as Verpies suggests and then reduce the spectrum width to 5Mhz, want to see what the response is for 1.2mhz to 3Mhz, i.e. the Tesla coil sympathetic response. Also reduce it again to see what the coil shows for the 0hz to 50Khz BW sweep.

Just wanting to see what your setup shows to see if the core will attenuate the Tesla or nano pulse frequencies (I think it should) versus the lower frequency switching setup (28Khz).

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12683 on: March 11, 2016, 09:18:41 PM »
I have not watched or analyzed your methodology yet, but the most common thing that can go wrong with these measurement is distortion of the tracking generator's output due to impedance mismatches and reflections.  The solution is to put a circulator or attenuator at the generator's output in order to isolate it from a misbehaving load.
Not normalizing the spectrum analyzer when the output cables are connected directly to the input cables (without the DUT), is another common rookie mistake (if an isolating attenuator is used - it should remain in place and participate in the normalization).

Applying DC to other transformer windings through a good choke, is another test that can be performed to see how the transformer's core responds at various magnetic fluxes.  Flux generated by such DC, has a different direction than the flux from external permanent magnets.

@All
Notice, how complex the frequency response of a simple yoke transformer is.
I expect the frequency response of the grenade coil to be even more complicated.

It is no wonder that it is so difficult to replicate with such unknown complexities.

If one of the "successful" Russian friends gave us a plots like this of their yoke and grenade - we could replicate this device in weeks.


I did use "normalize" to flatten the response when testing the connecting leads which in this case also includes the 3 turn in- and output coils.
I do realize that when removing the output 3 turn coil and connecting it to the primary under test (put) it could invalidate this "normalization".
I just don't see any other way to examine this primary.

I did not use a 10dB attenuator in the TG lead, so i redid the same test now with one.
I cranked up the TG output from -10dBm to 0dBm to compensate.

The below screenshot shows the result which is similar as the earlier one.

Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12684 on: March 11, 2016, 09:45:41 PM »
@ITSU,

Could you try and normalize as Verpies suggests and then reduce the spectrum width to 5Mhz, want to see what the response is for 1.2mhz to 3Mhz, i.e. the Tesla coil sympathetic response. Also reduce it again to see what the coil shows for the 0hz to 50Khz BW sweep.

Just wanting to see what your setup shows to see if the core will attenuate the Tesla or nano pulse frequencies (I think it should) versus the lower frequency switching setup (28Khz).

Hi Star,

as mentioned above, i did use "normalize" and now added a 10dB attenuator in the TG lead to compensate for any impedance mismatches.

The first screenshot show a 0Hz - 5Mhz (really 9KHz - 5MHz) spectrum width  and the second one a 0Hz - 50KHz (really 9Khz - 50KHz) spectrum width.
I had to reduce the bandwidth (RBW) for the 2th situation from 30KHz to 1Khz to have some decend response.
Notice also that the 2th screenshot is very close to the spectrum analyzer start limit (9KHz), so these fluctuating lines at the start are not stable and are really fluctuating.

Itsu

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12685 on: March 11, 2016, 09:56:26 PM »
I did use "normalize" to flatten the response when testing the connecting leads which in this case also includes the 3 turn in- and output coils.

Hi Itsu. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if you normalized with the two three turn
windings on the ferrite core, it seems to me that the spectrum anaylzer would try to
normalize the response of the spectrum analyzer to be flat through the normalized frequency
range of 9 kHz to 100 MHz, which would normalize out much of the frequency response variation of the
yoke core. Don't you actually want to see what effect both the yoke core and primary winding are having
on the frequency response? If so, I think you need to just connect the spectrum analyzer probe to the
TG output cable (including the 10dB attenuator if you are using it) and do the normalization, and then
after doing this normalization to normalize out any frequency dependent imbalances in the cables and probe
and attenuator, you would then connect the cables to the three turn pickup winding and the primary winding
to see the frequency response through 100 MHz. Were you trying to normalize out the frequency response of the
yoke core intentionally?



Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12686 on: March 11, 2016, 10:05:49 PM »

Hi Void,

well, my dilemma is that  doing it your way (which i was meaning to do too), you ALSO measure the response of the 3 turn coil, and i ONLY want to know the response of one primary coil.
I hoped that doing it my way  ;D  i could eliminate (normalize) this 3 turn coil, but i am not sure if this will work that way, so i will try the other way too.

Itsu
 

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12687 on: March 11, 2016, 10:10:58 PM »
Hi Void,
well, my dilemma is that  doing it your way (which i was meaning to do too), you ALSO measure the response of the 3 turn coil, and i ONLY want to know the response of one primary coil.
I hoped that doing it my way  ;D  i could eliminate (normalize) this 3 turn coil, but i am not sure if this will work that way, so i will try the other way too.
Itsu

Hi Itsu.  OK, I see what you were trying to do now. The problem is that in trying to
normalize out any frequency peaks or dips due to the three turn coil, you are also normalizing out
the frequency response of the yoke core. You can't completely win either way it seems.  :)


Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12688 on: March 11, 2016, 10:14:50 PM »

Here the normalize was done (as from the books) using the used cables and attenuator before connecting to the dut.

The result is again over a 0Hz - 100MHz range, but shows to my opinion the response of both the 3 turn secondary and one primary combined.

Itsu

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12689 on: March 11, 2016, 10:31:20 PM »
Here the normalize was done (as from the books) using the used cables and attenuator before connecting to the dut.
The result is again over a 0Hz - 100MHz range, but shows to my opinion the response of both the 3 turn secondary and one primary combined.
Itsu

Hi Itsu. That is why I was just connecting my probe to a short strip of aluminum foil stuck to the side of the yoke
when I was doing my spectrum analyzer tests. A single loop of wire through the yoke core may have
less impact on the frequency response trace as well. I am not sure what the best approach is for
trying to do these sort of frequency response tests however. :)

P.S.  Those peaks around 50 MHz and above 90 MHz are interesting.