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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 9750493 times)

Offline magpwr

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12585 on: March 05, 2016, 03:17:31 PM »
If your power supply is marked "Universal Input", you should be okay.  Attached is the spec sheet for my power supply.  Do notice the inrush current.  It is quite high and can certainly knock the system out of resonance if not limited in some way.


This looks like a problem we still need to adequately solve.  I used a PLL connected to the "sync" input (pin 3) of an SG3525 PWM chip.  This does work.  It will give you a resonance self-adjusting push-pull oscillator that will track with the output conditions and still allows you manual adjustment of duty cycle.  The problem I have with this approach is the duty cycle remains fixed during resonance lock.  What this means is the frequency is adjusted AND the pulse width is adjusted.  I'm not 100% sure this is what we want.  I think the pulse width should remain constant or there should be another feedback mechanism to adjust this on-the-fly, like for instance locking it to a specific waveform.  From what I have observed, the pulse width of the PWM may be even more important than the frequency of those pulses.  I'm confident of this being true when driving the Tesla coil and suspect it also to be true when driving the induction coil and grenade.

What it looks like to me is we need a circuit that can manipulate not only frequency, but pulse width and phasing between push and pull sides.  Something that controls on-time/off-time for each side as well as controlling dead-time between the two pulses.  How these need to be controlled to maintain proper resonance is still a mystery to me, but appears critical to proper operation.  I'm currently working on a circuit design that generates a manually adjustable pulse width, then toggles this pulse through a flip-flop sending it to the high side, then low side in a cyclic fashion.  Still working on the dead-time portion to make it adjustable as well.

Controlling this device has three stages that each need their own logic:  Startup, run & variable load compensation.
Maybe this can be simplified at some point.

hi Dog-One,

I have sucessfully work with PLL circuit which was design by Oleg for Ruslan it comes with phase control.Like you i was curious and i connected the output of PLL to
Dual channel splitter with duty cycle control using 1x74HC132
(Prototype design by me in virtual) .My circuit was uploaded in youtube -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfOSBGIdORw

The PLL will lock as long the duty cycle is minimum 33% or 39% can't fully recall.Best stick with 44% or IR2111 as simple means to split signal.I had to find out the hard way.

I am no longer after resonance for the brightest bulb show.But it's merely used as "reference point".

But i still do keep that PLL circuit on the mini breadboard which was last tested successfully months back.Future plan use is to use a divide by 10 counter 74HC4017 with PLL and set it between 1 to 4.
--------------------------------------------------------
Just implemented a Buck/boost XL6009 circuit on my existing PWM circuit so that voltage stay just below 23volts regardless of supply 3volts to 30volts.

Successfully tested my circuit on 1x18650 battery which needs 400mA to get to nearly 23volts(preset) to power circuit without connecting heatsink fan. :'(

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12586 on: March 05, 2016, 04:26:52 PM »
The voltage fluctuations now are raising even more questions:
1) Is your power supply limited to work in 190-240V input voltage range? Seems like that which have a problem. The PS has to work from 100 to 300V input voltage range.
2) As soon as your power supply is switching on, it starts to draw current. That results lowering inductance and the resonant frequency goes up. Is it going outside of the pre-set resonant condition frequency range?
3) Can you attach PLL with current sense on 3T near yoke instead of TL494? This will keep resonant frequency locked in.

Cheers!

T-1000,

the 24V PS label mentions:  "input AC 220V 50Hz"  so you are probably right that it only works around 220V.

The other questions like  "Can you attach PLL with current sense on 3T near yoke" are easily said then done
as the signal on the 3 turn (needed to get the voltage across the series LC) is badly distorted / squared and the current
through this series LC is in the 50A p-p range making a CSR and  even a current sensor hard to construct.

Itsu 

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12587 on: March 05, 2016, 05:58:25 PM »
The other questions like  "Can you attach PLL with current sense on 3T near yoke" are easily said then done
as the signal on the 3 turn (needed to get the voltage across the series LC) is badly distorted / squared and the current
through this series LC is in the 50A p-p range making a CSR and  even a current sensor hard to construct.

Itsu

This article may help:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icct.ru%2Fnode%2F88&edit-text=
Please check on http://www.icct.ru/sites/default/files/pictures/pic/27-01-2012/Picts/Big-26.png and http://www.icct.ru/sites/default/files/pictures/pic/27-01-2012/Picts/Big-27.png

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12588 on: March 06, 2016, 01:56:44 AM »
This article may help:
Простой лабораторный инвертор для индукционного нагрева. Часть 3.

Yes Arunas, this is very well thought out and should be a perfect basis for testing.  Great find!


The "pulse skipper" technique for power level control along with the "differential current transformer" is brilliant.  All my concerns (in my previous post) have been adequately addressed by this solution--frequency lock, pulse width, dead-time and power level.  And a big plus is his circuitry is simple, easy to build and easy to troubleshoot.

You follow the lead of Андрей Лыткин and you should have no problem driving this device.


Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12589 on: March 06, 2016, 11:10:18 AM »
the "differential current transformer" is brilliant. 
Why "differential" and not just "current transformer" ?

Google translation just does not do it justice,

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12590 on: March 06, 2016, 02:38:54 PM »
Why "differential" and not just "current transformer" ?

The author says it is wound bifilar, which immediately made me think of your loss-less clamps.

Apparently it filters high-frequency switching noise and can be made by-hand unlike typical current sense transformers that have thousands of winds with very tiny wire.


Whether it works better than an OEM current sense transformer remains to be tried and tested.

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12591 on: March 06, 2016, 08:38:22 PM »
Minus the forward voltage drops of the PS diodes.
Yes, but I doubt the MOSFETs are ringing with the inductance of the primary winding, because this inductance is simply too large to yield such high frequency. 
Pls use the formula C = 1/(39.478 * f2 * L) to calculate how low of a capacitance you'd need to have, in order to get a 14MHz LC resonance frequency (f) with your primary inductance (L).

Also, a time-domain scopeshot of the drain waveform would be useful to identify the ringing stage.


Pls try to connect a parallel 47pF cap to the gate and/or drain of the MOSFET in order to locate where that LC parasitic is exactly.  Look for downward frequency shift.


It could be related to the placement of the air gap under the windings or the capacitance of the winding but doubtfully related to the inductance of the primary winding which is simply too large to resonate at this frequency with realistic capacitances.
First of all, these additional peaks cannot be related to the yoke just changing its inductance, because such change would only cause a frequency shift of the existing peak.

New peaks cannot appear due to a change of inductance, but they can appear due to any nonlinearities introduced, such as ferrimagnetic saturation* ...and other effects.
It is not so chaotic:

First of all, the peaks at 18.833MHz, 28.250MHz, 37.6666MHz, 47.08333MHz are all consecutive harmonics of the 9.416MHz peak.
That leaves only the small peak at 35.25MHz as the odd one.

The 14MHz is also unrelated to any other peaks, but notice, that this 14MHz peak does not belong to the group of peaks that was caused by the permanent magnets.


* It is unlikely, that these relatively small and weak ceramic magnets could saturate such a large yoke core.



Cross checking the 14MHz peak on the spectrum analyzer with the drain signal confirms that it is caused by the ringing of the MOSFETs.
First screenshot is from the spectrum analyzer, seconds screenshot a zoomed in picture of the ringing when a MOSFET closes.


Paralleling a 47pF capacitor to gate / source does not show any difference in this ringing, paralleling it to the drain / source shows a minor frequency decrease of about 200Khz .


In the test with the 4 stacked ceramic magnets, i noticed that when the magnets are attached to the yoke midway a primary, that that primary MOSFET gets hotter (due to the harmonic peaks production).
The other MOSFET stays the same in temperature.  When putting the magnets midway the other primary, then the other MOSFET gets hotter  :o

So it seems that the magnets are causing only 1 primary / yoke half* / MOSFET to behave differently (chaotic)

(* With "yoke half" i do NOT mean the physical half but rather the half which has a primary.  Each primary has a yoke split halfway.)

Itsu 
 

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12592 on: March 07, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
  Itsu and All:
  As you may know, I've been using the snake egg shaped magnetite magnets in the yoke core.  Sometimes I use three of them, for better tuning and gain. As the more magnets used, the higher is the output, and brighter bulbs, also. With three magnets the magnetics of the yoke's output, can be fine tuned. This does not just apply to the Mazilli crt.  Since the yoke running frequency, and the wave forms shape can therefore also be tuned and adjusted.
 The main point is that increased gain is noticed at the output when using the magnets, and not just by a little bit. And, it works also in conjunction with the ferrite pieces that I use inside of the grenade former tube, and ferrite pieces inside of the Kacher former.  They can all be tuned by moving them around, for best output. 
   If ferrite, and magnetite is not used to aid in the tuning efforts,  the actual output noticed at the bulbs, will be noticeably lower.

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12593 on: March 07, 2016, 11:48:37 PM »
Hi all,

Here is some update on Tesla coil driver. I made corrections to Oleg's original circuit and ended up with this circuit:
http://i.imgur.com/426K40t.png

It was tested with my small Tesla coil and was giving lots of EMP to surrounding electronics... ;)

Cheers!

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12594 on: March 08, 2016, 04:24:01 AM »
Cross checking the 14MHz peak on the spectrum analyzer with the drain signal confirms that it is caused by the ringing of the MOSFETs.

Hi Itsu. Great that you were able to figure out what was causing that.
It seems you have your PWM driver sorted out and working very well now...

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12595 on: March 08, 2016, 08:38:53 AM »

Cross checking the 14MHz peak on the spectrum analyzer with the drain signal confirms that it is caused by the ringing of the MOSFETs.


Hi Itsu
I See two kinds of frequencies across your drains. The first 14Mhz oscillation happens when mosfet stops conducting, and a second lower freq. oscillation to the same drain, when the other mosfet starts conducting. Looks like that between the two oscillations we have a change to the values of paracitic capacitance and leakage inductance which determine the oscillation value. I hope Verpies will through some light to the shade.

One question guys.
Is there any way for someone to predict the capacity value of a diode when this works in combination with a coil? I see for example that the diode bridge at the output of grenade, gives specific resonant rise to a frequency value according diode's capacity and grenade's inductance. Can this be calculated from the begin?

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12596 on: March 08, 2016, 10:34:40 AM »
One question guys.
Is there any way for someone to predict the capacity value of a diode when this works in combination with a coil? I see for example that the diode bridge at the output of grenade, gives specific resonant rise to a frequency value according diode's capacity and grenade's inductance. Can this be calculated from the begin?
Each diode have capacitance in datasheet. It is easy to calculate parallel resonant ringing frequency with taking coil inductance and diode capacitance values. Just the aim is not for LC resonance in grenade coil. It should be more aimed for self inductance and self capacitance of the coil while sweeping wide range of frequencies if you do not know wire length which is best answer for resonant wavelengths.
On what frequency your grenade coil rings with largest current on wire when loaded with 10 Ohm resistor? The signal input from frequency generator is the inductor directly attached to it.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12597 on: March 08, 2016, 11:02:36 AM »
Each diode have capacitance in datasheet.

Tnks T1000
I ask because except of the resonant rise frequencies which are related to the grenade length itself, there is always a high peak between 750KHz-900Khz which i suspect that relates to the diode capacity and it is always there in all of my grenade builds. I'll check again the datasheet as i can't find its capacity value.

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12598 on: March 08, 2016, 11:40:12 AM »


As mentioned earlier, i build a new yoke consisting of a T-520 Toroid using the loss-less clamp design with the same number of turns on the primaries (2x 12) and secondaries (3 and 28),
see picture were i compare the new toroid with the first one (not loss-less) i had.

When firing up, the 24V battery stack hits its auto fuse of 10A and thats it.

It seems that this "toroid yoke" gives way less inductance to the primaries (5.8uH each compared to the 64uH on a "yoke yoke") so it presents itself as a short to the MOSFETs.

I had the same effect as when i by mistake had wound my present loss-less clamp design yoke as bucking primaries, also then the inductance was too low and the 10A auto fuse came out.


So how to remedy this?   Use more turns on the primaries, but that will influence the secondary turn ratios as well which could cause the toroid to run out of space for all those windings.

Or stick with the present "yoke yoke"?


Itsu

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12599 on: March 08, 2016, 12:09:21 PM »
I measure the both primaries (only the C to B and the F to D part in your loss-less clamp diagram) to be resp. 62.5uH and 64,2uH.
For 14Mhz that comes to about 2pF on your above formula, so that can come from anywhere.
The drain to source capacitance is more that 2pF.  The additional inter-turn capacitance would make it even higher.
But it is not the ~60μH that is ringing with this capacitance.  It is the much smaller leakage inductance which forms an LC tank with this capacitance.  The leakage inductance should be measured with the secondaries shorted.

So with these numbers the LC resonance of the leakage inductance seems plausible.

Paralleling a 47pF capacitor to gate / source does not show any difference in this ringing, paralleling it to the drain / source shows a minor frequency decrease of about 200Khz.
Good. That confirms that the 14MHz ringing comes from the drain circuit.

However that does not explain the 35.25MHz peak and the 9.416MHz peak with its harmonics.
Please repeat this test with a 100pF capacitor and note whether these peaks are also affected.

In the test with the 4 stacked ceramic magnets, i noticed that when the magnets are attached to the yoke midway a primary, that that primary MOSFET gets hotter (due to the harmonic peaks production).
The other MOSFET stays the same in temperature.  When putting the magnets midway the other primary, then the other MOSFET gets hotter  :o
This means that the magnet forces the alternating magnetic flux out of the core, because the core forms a circular magnetic path and affecting any part of it would affect the inductance of both windings equally.