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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 11205498 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12525 on: March 02, 2016, 11:28:11 AM »
Okay, I was thinking you only had the output of the power supply connected to a load.  Gotcha.

I might need to see a video to be sure, but I'm guessing your power supply is actually trying to charge the battery, which would put even more load on it.

Sounds like the diode you have in-place protects the power supply from being back-feed by the battery, but once the power supply's voltage goes above the battery voltage, then the current flow would reverse and that diode no longer helps.

So if I have things straight in my mind, yes you would need two diodes--one between the battery and the PWM; then another between the power supply and PWM.

That sound right to you?


M@

I could not find a suitable load for the 24V PS, so i looped it to the battery.

I agree with your comments, i will try putting in a diode also between battery and the circuit.

Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12526 on: March 02, 2016, 11:31:52 AM »
There are two reasons why to keep PS looped back into input - the tuning involves it as part of circuit and it also will compensate power required for series resonance. The power draw from the battery is your losses and that what I was asking about - how much? Also when you have it looped the lighting of the bulb also has interest on how much power it take in that condition.

Also I was working in background with Oleg's DC-DC step-up converter and Tesla driver circuits. There are possibly intentional errors in original schematics and after fixing them all I hooked up small Tesla coil. It worked but the IRFP460 mosfet is no good for driving Tesla transformer primary at 1MHz+ range. The gate-source junction consumes about 100mA there which show inefficiency of that MOSFET. That also cause almost short circuit when hooked up with DC-DC converter. Will try other MOSFETs to find best one.

The DC-DC converter transformer details which was missing in Olegs schematics: I made 24+24T primary on small transformer with 1mm diameter magnet wire and the secondary was around 0.25mm for target voltage of about 130V. It gets up to 145V DC in in open end and drops to 87V with 15W 220V microwave bulb.
 
Cheers!

T,

the current draw from the battery at resonance is about 5A (@24V), and drops about 1A (while dimming the 40W bulb) during this slow cycling.

Thanks for the info on the Oleg circuit,  if possible could you add it to a drawing?   Thanks.

Itsu

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12527 on: March 02, 2016, 12:24:13 PM »
T,

the current draw from the battery at resonance is about 5A (@24V), and drops about 1A (while dimming the 40W bulb) during this slow cycling.

Thanks for the info on the Oleg circuit,  if possible could you add it to a drawing?   Thanks.

Itsu
Is is still taking 5A with PS looped when you have same voltage from battery over diode and looped PS?
For Oleg circuits - will share modified version after the whole system will be functioning in proper mode.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12528 on: March 02, 2016, 12:44:18 PM »
That's medium easy for me to draw

It would be great if you had some time to discuss it.

From this web site (http://www.sm0vpo.com) i borrowed the basic blocks behind a pll. It works as to keep a constant frequency at the output. In this case 1KHz. But what we need of our pll is to change this frequency every time according to any change that happens inside inductor's line. What is your opinion about that? Where do we have ti inter-vain? Any block diag. would be very helpful.

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12529 on: March 02, 2016, 12:53:56 PM »
But what we need of our pll is to change this frequency every time according to any change that happens inside inductor's line. What is your opinion about that? Where do we have ti inter-vain? Any block diag. would be very helpful.
I've done that long time ago.  The resonance in the series LC circuit is tracked by comparing the phase of the voltage and current in this circuit.

If you ask on this forum, there is a user who has done a video that shows what happens to a phase of voltage vs. current in a series LC circuit as the external driving frequency is varied. 
The phase relationship is more revealing than amplitude vs. frequency.

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12530 on: March 02, 2016, 01:18:17 PM »
But what we need of our pll is to change this frequency every time according to any change that happens inside inductor's line. What is your opinion about that? Where do we have ti inter-vain? Any block diag. would be very helpful.
The PLL should be operating in blocking oscillator mode on the current peak in the series resonance.
So when there is maximum current on positive half-cycle the PLL will switch off MOSFET and flip to another half. Then the PLL should do same with on the peak of current in the negative half-cycle.
In this way it will chop low frequency square wave duty cycle to the best matching length and will make frequency shift to the best matching resonant frequency of the series resonance.
Then the signal on the PLL flip-flop time goes to the Tesla coil driver which will fire up signal to the Tesla coil.
There is an issue as well - due changing resonant frequency on the PLL the Tesla coil driver have to change its frequency to the resonant harmonic. This make manual tuning hard to achieve due changing conditions and instability of system operation. So to solve that the both frequency generators have to be synchronized. akula tried 2 PLL but that appeared to be "mission impossible" to get proper operation. My idea is from different approach - by applying frequency multiplier instead of manual frequency generator for the Tesla coil this problem go away instantly due locking of 2 frequencies on resonant harmonics all the time.

Here is Ruslan's video about mode of operation: https://youtu.be/NHpUE6oqt7k?t=9m27s


Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12531 on: March 02, 2016, 01:21:17 PM »
Yes, there needs to be at least a 2x frequency multiplication between the output of the PLL and the input of the PWM controller, because the PWM controller's clock runs at twice the frequency of its push-pull output.  This is not hard to accomplish.

Offline Tomtech29

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12532 on: March 02, 2016, 02:41:08 PM »
The PLL should be operating in blocking oscillator mode on the current peak in the series resonance.
So when there is maximum current on positive half-cycle the PLL will switch off MOSFET and flip to another half. Then the PLL should do same with on the peak of current in the negative half-cycle.
In this way it will chop low frequency square wave duty cycle to the best matching length and will make frequency shift to the best matching resonant frequency of the series resonance.
Then the signal on the PLL flip-flop time goes to the Tesla coil driver which will fire up signal to the Tesla coil.
There is an issue as well - due changing resonant frequency on the PLL the Tesla coil driver have to change its frequency to the resonant harmonic. This make manual tuning hard to achieve due changing conditions and instability of system operation. So to solve that the both frequency generators have to be synchronized. akula tried 2 PLL but that appeared to be "mission impossible" to get proper operation. My idea is from different approach - by applying frequency multiplier instead of manual frequency generator for the Tesla coil this problem go away instantly due locking of 2 frequencies on resonant harmonics all the time.

Here is Ruslan's video about mode of operation: https://youtu.be/NHpUE6oqt7k?t=9m27s

better late than never I moved this topic several times but was ignored -
-I hoped that someone would help me determine the rules combinations of these components!
 here they are what guests have the concept and do not want to share diagrams of the project Pll.
(maybe something will change) and will be brainstorming and interesting solutions!
I'm counting on you guys simulations are also necessary I greet the experimenter. :D
I do not have any experience in this field I also wanted to try!
... maintain a high state of resonance full load the works of masters.

Offline Tomtech29

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12533 on: March 02, 2016, 02:59:09 PM »
Hi.
Throw large format photos of the first Akula circuits (I think that has something to do with the current)
but pes confirm that it works as expected only  is the pictures.
-I will be vigilant, as I do not have a bad throw other projects of the PCB "Oleg"

Offline Tomtech29

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12534 on: March 02, 2016, 03:28:10 PM »
or from any of you worked out those connections?

Offline T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12535 on: March 02, 2016, 07:12:56 PM »
better late than never I moved this topic several times but was ignored -
-I hoped that someone would help me determine the rules combinations of these components!
 here they are what guests have the concept and do not want to share diagrams of the project Pll.
(maybe something will change) and will be brainstorming and interesting solutions!
I'm counting on you guys simulations are also necessary I greet the experimenter. :D
I do not have any experience in this field I also wanted to try!
... maintain a high state of resonance full load the works of masters.
Perhaps you can try build induction heater circuit with PLL for automatic resonance setup then? akula also started from this 4 years ago... ;)

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12536 on: March 02, 2016, 11:08:06 PM »
Is is still taking 5A with PS looped when you have same voltage from battery over diode and looped PS?
For Oleg circuits - will share modified version after the whole system will be functioning in proper mode.


I put also a diode on the battery to prevent it from being charged by the PS, but when looped, the cycling is still there, now somewhat faster like 2Hz.

Itsu

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12537 on: March 03, 2016, 02:14:02 AM »
Hi guys. I have been testing with a very basic setup along the lines of SR193's early videos, which means
I am using a PWM driver (single output) and a HV flyback driver and a spark gap. I am currently just running
some very basic testing at a fairly low power drive level, with the PWM driver circuit consuming about 1.5 Watts or so
from a 12V battery when powering a tiny ~0.25W,12V light bulb attached to my output coil.

I also saw a similar effect as was mentioned here of hearing the PWM driver circuit making funny whining/hissing noises
when I was touching the frequency adjust pot at certain frequency settings, and the little light bulb would go a lot
brighter when that happened. This only happened when the spark gap was activated. It seems HV spikes/noise
is probably being coupled into the PWM driver circuit when I touch the freq adjust pot, with my body acting as
an antenna of sorts, and this is making the PWM driver circuit act unstable.  My Digital ammeter showed an
increase in current draw to the PWM driver when this was happening and the light bulb got a lot brighter. That would
seem not to be the effect we are looking for since it makes the PWM driver draw more current. :)

Something funny I saw happening this evening was at certain settings I was seeing the light bulb get a little bit
brighter when I switched on the spark gap driver, and the current meter reading for the PWM would drop a bit in
some cases, but this was only a minor and unstable effect, and in most cases the PWM input current would increase
whenever the light bulb got brighter.

With more fiddling with frequency and pulse width on the PWM driver, in some cases my DVM was actually reading a negative
current for the PWM driver input current. LOL! :D  The most likely explanation there is the DVM is acting loopy because
of the spark gap throwing off HV spikes into all the wiring, which is making my DVM act up. I have a small cheapo
analog multimeter that can read DC current up to 250 mA, but I accidentally set the duty cycle too high on the PWM at one
point and blew the fuse in the little analog multimeter. :) I will need to see if I can get some more fuses somewhere, or try
to obtain a better analog ammeter to read the input current to the PWM driver. At one point the digital ammeter was
reading close to -1.5A for the PWM input current from the battery. :) When using sparkgaps, analog meters would seem to
be a must. The same is probably a good idea when using a tesla coil for the HV pulses. :)


P.S. I temporarily put a jumper wire across the fuse terminals on my analog multimeter, and I am back to reading
positive PWM input currents again with the analog multimeter. :)

I can adjust the PWM to certain frequencies which causes the light bulb to get a fair bit brighter when I activate
the spark gap, but so far the input current draw of the PWM increases when this happens, except for a few
very minor cases where the PWM input current seemed to drop a little bit when the light got a little bit brighter.
I can also adjust the PWM to frequencies where activating the spark gap makes the little light bulb turn off,
and in this case the PWM input current drops. Interesting, but still not the type of effect we are after, I think. :)

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12538 on: March 03, 2016, 08:21:28 AM »
I also saw a similar effect as was mentioned here of hearing the PWM driver circuit making funny whining/hissing noises
when I was touching the frequency adjust pot at certain frequency settings, and the little light bulb would go a lot
brighter when that happened. This only happened when the spark gap was activated. It seems HV spikes/noise
is probably being coupled into the PWM driver circuit when I touch the freq adjust pot, with my body acting as
an antenna of sorts, and this is making the PWM driver circuit act unstable.  My Digital ammeter showed an
increase in current draw to the PWM driver when this was happening and the light bulb got a lot brighter.
Hi Void, thanks for sharing your experience. :)
Smaller hissing but exists, happens to me even with no active HV. When also HV comes into play, things get worst. I remember, in some cases with my previous setup, things got better when i was connecting earth ground to my metal pots together with the (-) of the battery.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12539 on: March 03, 2016, 08:27:48 AM »
I've done that long time ago.  The resonance in the series LC circuit is tracked by comparing the phase of the voltage and current in this circuit.

Nice idea Verpies, thanks. (Even i feel that by tracking just amplitude would be easier and the same effectiveness)
Sometimes i find John'sK1 idea with arduino a very good choice for doing all of these. (Tracking-calculating-correcting freq.) What is your opinion for this? Normally it would be just a matter of simple programming.