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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 9066708 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12330 on: February 20, 2016, 08:28:23 PM »
Quoting myself:
See the altered diagram from here.
If you go to that article - it is the lower left one.
If that diagram is redrawn so that the two windings are connected and more positive potentials are placed higher on this diagram, then a more intuitive one is obtained:

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12330 on: February 20, 2016, 08:28:23 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12331 on: February 20, 2016, 08:34:58 PM »
Thanks.  Are TVS diodes installed ?
For analysis of periodic waveform it is advantageous to view the entire cycle on the scope's screen, but viewing 2 cycles is too much, because it worsens the horizontal resolution.

So viewing 1 cycle <= on screen < 2 cycles, is the best.

Yes,  TVS's (54V) still installed

Ok, about the entire cycle etc. but i meant thats what i was showing 1 entire cycle instead of 2, so i am not sure why you asked that as that was what i was showing (i think  :o  )


Itsu
 

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12332 on: February 20, 2016, 10:15:12 PM »
I'd like to remark, that Jeg is right about the current flowing through the MOSFET's body diodes but not at the time he thinks (when the other MOSFET turns on/closes/starts conducting).

What is bothering me now is the negative current inside the 2μs "gray zone" on the scopeshot below.
Note, that in this zone both MOSFETs are OFF, no energy flows from the power supply nor from snubber capacitors nor from energy storing components on the secondary windings BUT the negative current increases in this zone :o

Could it be because the current through the TVS diode decreases while the current through the body diode increases ?

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12332 on: February 20, 2016, 10:15:12 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12333 on: February 20, 2016, 10:25:37 PM »
I put up slightly more then 1 cycle @ 8us gate time, both gates.

first screenshot is at current point 2  (current through drain) 
second screenshot is at current point 3 (current through TVS) 

Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12334 on: February 20, 2016, 10:52:03 PM »
I'd like to remark, that Jeg is right about the current flowing through the MOSFET's body diodes but not at the time he thinks (when the other MOSFET turns on/closes/starts conducting).

What is bothering me now is the negative current inside the 2μs "gray zone" on the scopeshot below.
Note, that in this zone both MOSFETs are OFF, no energy flows from the power supply nor from snubber capacitors nor from energy storing components on the secondary windings BUT the negative current increases in this zone :o

Could it be because the current through the TVS diode decreases while the current through the body diode increases ?

You say: "Note, that in this zone both MOSFETs are OFF" but do you not mean "both GATES are OFF" because i clearly see the yellow MOSFET being ON in that time.

You also say: "no energy flows from the power supply nor from snubber capacitors ......."   but be aware we have no snubber capacitors right now, only 54V TVS's.


Itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12334 on: February 20, 2016, 10:52:03 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12335 on: February 20, 2016, 11:16:03 PM »
You say: "Note, that in this zone both MOSFETs are OFF" but do you not mean "both GATES are OFF"
Yes, I can see you are paying attention.

because i clearly see the yellow MOSFET being ON in that time.
After all these scopeshots, I can say with certainty that during the "gray zone", the MOSFET's drain-source channel is OFF but the MOSFET's body diode is beginning to conduct (ON). 
If you zoom in vertically on the drain voltage during this period I bet you'll find the body diode's forward voltage there -1.2V.

The interesting question is: What would happen if the body diode did not exist?
You can find out by disconnecting the other primary half and scoping the voltage being developed across it during the "gray zone".

You also say: "no energy flows from the power supply nor from snubber capacitors ......."   but be aware we have no snubber capacitors right now, only 54V TVS's.
I know ;)  That's why I was able to write, that "no energy flows from snubber capacitors"
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 02:14:34 AM by verpies »

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12336 on: February 20, 2016, 11:27:03 PM »
I put up slightly more then 1 cycle @ 8us gate time, both gates.
first screenshot is at current point 2  (current through drain) 
second screenshot is at current point 3 (current through TVS) 
Look, your scope has 5 channels now!
The 5th channel shows the current flowing through the Drain connected to the OPPOSITE winding.

Anyway, take a look at the currents in the "gray zone".  The TVS current rises rapidly and it decreases slowly (over ~2μs) while the negative drain current is increasing. (negative increase looks like falling visually)

This is an illustration of unusual current sharing between the TVS diode and the MOSFET body diode.  It is unusual because the forward voltage drop of the body diode is 1.2V but the clamping voltage of the TVS diode is 54V, so the diode with the lower voltage drop should bear the majority of the current, but that is not what happens in the "gray zone".

Could the body diode be that slow?

Do you have a 100V Schottky diode that you can put in parallel with the opposite MOSFET's body diode, just to see how much speedup we can get by helping the body diode?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 11:06:10 AM by verpies »

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12336 on: February 20, 2016, 11:27:03 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12337 on: February 21, 2016, 12:02:21 AM »

...so i think you're seeing interaction between both halves of the push-pull arrangement, through the winding, enabled by the inherent body-diode of each device

ie. when one side switches off, flyback current is continuing to flow in from the opposite winding via the body-diode there
...
All the best
np

Lol - please allow me the merest Smirkette, if this gets confirmed as a body-diode issue

...maybe save me one of those Donker Biers?  ;-)

all the best
np

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12338 on: February 21, 2016, 01:48:49 AM »
when one side switches off, flyback current is continuing to flow in from the opposite winding via the body-diode there
If you were the first then you deserve the credit for it.
However, there is no continuation of current flow in the opposite winding.  Instead there is the initiation of current flow there, so I would agree with the following revised statement:

When one side switches OFF (while the opposite side is already OFF), current begins to flow in the opposite winding via the MOSFET's body-diode connected to it.

The reality is more complex, however, as evidenced by Itsu's recent scopeshots. 
Namely the current continues to flow in the winding that was switched OFF, through the TVS diode and begins to flow through the MOSFET's body diode connected to the opposite winding. 
These diodes bear the current together albeit unequally - in the beginning the TVS diode bears most of the current and in the end, the body diode does. 
The time evolution of this current sharing, most likely happens because the TVS diode is faster and the body diode has a lower voltage drop in the end...

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12338 on: February 21, 2016, 01:48:49 AM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12339 on: February 21, 2016, 02:47:09 AM »

heheh - don't mind me - i was just teasing!

np

Offline magpwr

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12340 on: February 21, 2016, 04:55:38 AM »
hi everone,

Someone mentioned in youtube that clamp meter isn't a good way to detect current movement to Earth related to my Tesla Transponder 2.0 video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yun3HjsNNKs

Since i do not own a 1 Ohms resistor although i do own a 0.1 ohms 100watt non inductive resistor. :D :D

Since i am dead sure there is current to Earth from 12volts battery which is isolated from grid.

I have quickly assembled a 1 turn on a blue toroid which can handle high frequency in Mhz.

This simple quick test revealed that at 1 turn the spike is around 2.9volts in order successfully to light my 10mm white Led.

Any engineer in this field will know that this is easy way to reveal current without going into the exact measurement."Time saver"

Please don't fall for lame test where anyone show lighting a bulb from tesla coil to Earth.Remember as the voltage goes up the current goes down.

Tariel is indeed different from Tesla because Tariel focus was on current movement to Earth and Tesla did ever light a bulb few feet/meter from tesla coil.

Think in nature the voltage built up/ionization mainly happens in the sky but Earth definitely provide the current in the case of lightning strike.The only word i can think is counterpoise base on my current education level. :D :D :D
----------------------------------------------------
Many still thinks that the iron core transformer can't go higher than 400hz.Only provided that the pulse width is kept very narrow below 100 nanosecond .But to be exact it's around 78 to 80 nanosecond
There is iron core present on the clamp meter loop/clamp.

In other words what i am trying to say the iron core will hardly get saturated in nanosecond range.
The only thing is true the reading on clamp meter won't be accurate.

But hey i was following what Akula was doing in video given the error of measurement shown on clamp meter and i am able to replicate the current Reading
easily. :D

----------------------------------------------
To wrap it up all of us were following wrong way of implemented kacher and worst playing safe voltage at 12 or 24volts which makes this setup even more laughable.

As already mentioned in my previous posting few hours back we need to start working with voltage as high as 150volts...200volts or even 250volts dc for the kacher.
If you need to see current reading to Earth and if you are serious about your replication project.

--------------------------------------------

My next stage is to test if my version of kacher can be powered(100volts to 180volts.But i am aiming high at 200volts on pulse capacitor 20uf Russian PIO capacitor 400volts) merely  from the BEMF generated without "Taxing" the source battery.

I will reveal once basic setup is tested. :) :) :) 8)

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12340 on: February 21, 2016, 04:55:38 AM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12341 on: February 21, 2016, 10:05:50 AM »
Hi Jeg.

I was trying it myself yesterday to see the effects with different configuration of winding. First I checked the resonance of the normal coil. Than I wound 1/4 in opposite direction and then I tried to rewind coil each 1/3 in opposite direction.    The one with the 1/4 in opposite direction gave me higher resonance frequency( rise from 6.09MHz to 9Mhz) and higher Vpp (from 6V to 10V).

First tests with Allega's blue box synchronizing circuit. Looks a nice way for achieving the HF goal, but for 1.5MHz my Tesla secondary is really very short. Not more than 8cm in length and still at 1.2Mhz. Needs more trimming but at the end it will not give any serious output voltage. So i guess that i have to rewound it but with some inter-turn space to reduce inter-turn capacitance. I wonder how frequency is going to be affected by the use of this ferrite chock between tesla and antenna. Will it affected at all?

I also saw again Itsu's video about that issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftKB5YIHJw&feature=youtu.be
His secondary was really very short. Any advice on this issue Itsu?

The above statement of JohnK1 is also a partly solution. I will also try it today.

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12342 on: February 21, 2016, 12:46:12 PM »
Look, your scope has 5 channels now!
The 5th channel shows the current flowing through the Drain connected to the OPPOSITE winding.

Anyway, take a look at the currents in the "gray zone".  The TVS current rises rapidly and it decreases slowly (over ~2μs) while the negative drain current is increasing. (negative increase looks like falling visually)

This is an illustration of unusual current sharing between the TVS diode and the MOSFET body diode.  It is unusual because the forward voltage drop of the body diode is 1.2V but the clamping voltage of the TVS diode is 54V, so the diode with the lower voltage drop should bear the majority of the current, but that is not what happens in the "gray zone".

Could the body diode be that slow?

Do you have a 100V Schottky diode that you can put in parallel with the opposite MOSFET's body diode, just to see how much speedup we can get by helping the body diode?


Wow five channels, i like it, thanks.

I will zoom in on the grey area to check on the 1.2V forward voltage drop of the body diode and put an extra MOSFET body diode helper  schottky diode across source/drain.


But for my understanding, your grey area is not really our problem, the problem is the light blue area where the MOSFET is already on while its gate is off.
Do i understand correctly that the fact that yellow MOSFET is on (light blue area) is caused by the grey area effect caused by the other MOSFET?


 
Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12343 on: February 21, 2016, 12:54:59 PM »
First tests with Allega's blue box synchronizing circuit. Looks a nice way for achieving the HF goal, but for 1.5MHz my Tesla secondary is really very short. Not more than 8cm in length and still at 1.2Mhz. Needs more trimming but at the end it will not give any serious output voltage. So i guess that i have to rewound it but with some inter-turn space to reduce inter-turn capacitance. I wonder how frequency is going to be affected by the use of this ferrite chock between tesla and antenna. Will it affected at all?

I also saw again Itsu's video about that issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oftKB5YIHJw&feature=youtu.be
 His secondary was really very short. Any advice on this issue Itsu?

The above statement of JohnK1 is also a partly solution. I will also try it today.

Hi Jeg,


well, if you want 2MHz or so kacher frequency, then indeed this will be about the length of the secondary coil, but you loose voltage.
So the trick is to increase the secondary coil interwinding distance (reduced capacitance) so the coil length increases and so does the voltage while the frequency can stay much the same.
I used the double wire wind technic and remove one wire lateron.

Not sure if the ferrite choke between tesla and antenna influences the frequency, the antenna surely does as it lowers the frequency.

Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #12344 on: February 21, 2016, 02:07:06 PM »
Yes, I can see you are paying attention.
After all these scopeshots, I can say with certainty that during the "gray zone", the MOSFET's drain-source channel is OFF but the MOSFET's body diode is beginning to conduct (ON). 
If you zoom in vertically on the drain voltage during this period I bet you'll find the body diode's forward voltage there -1.2V.

The interesting question is: What would happen if the body diode did not exist?
You can find out by disconnecting the other primary half and scoping the voltage being developed across it during the "gray zone".
I know ;)  That's why I was able to write, that "no energy flows from snubber capacitors"

First screenshot is zoomed in on the gray area.  I fail to see  the body diode's forward voltage -1.2V there.

Second screenshot is as above screenshots, but with the NOT scoped primary coil disconnected (so the yellow trace if from the still connected MOSFET).

Third screenshot is as second, only here we have the disconnected coil on the yellow trace.

All compared to ground.

Green is still the current through the TVS (the connected one)

What we see is that the gate is now triggering the drain (blue / yellow) as should be.

Itsu

 

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