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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 10197487 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5505 on: October 03, 2014, 04:50:21 PM »
  Magpwr:
  Yes, that meter seams like it's a very good deal.
  Thanks.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5506 on: October 03, 2014, 04:50:32 PM »
What do you say about that? As you see changing diodes is an easy task. I just wonder about what starcruser said  for the filters.

Hi Jeg. I haven't analyzed switch mode power supplies much at all, so assume I could possibly be mistaken
on some of this. ;)

It looks like the section I have enclosed in a white box is where some input filtering components would be, but these
are not installed, so that makes it easy. :)

As you likely know, the FWBR diodes enclosed in the yellow box should be replaced with fast power diodes if they
are not fast diodes. If you can read the part number on one of their sides, you can check before unsoldering.

What is the part number for the part which I enclosed in the red square? I am not certain what it is.
Can you see any markings on the side of that part?

Overall it looks like you may be able to just put in fast power diodes and you may be set for frequencies such as
27 kHz or in that area. I can't say for certain there won't be other issues as I haven't tried this, but just commenting
on what I think after taking a quick look. There doesn't appear to be much in the way of input filtering that
I noticed, but maybe someone with more experience with switch mode power supplies can add further input... :)
All the best...

P.S.
What is the voltage rating on the electrolytic filter caps right after the FWBR diodes?
You may well have to add a bit of your own filtering on the AC output of your device if the
signal has any high voltage spikes or whatever on it, before going into the input of the power supply.
You will also want to make sure the voltage of the input waveform is reasonably close to it's rated value.
:)

Offline starcruiser

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5507 on: October 03, 2014, 04:56:15 PM »
What do you say about that? As you see changing diodes is an easy task. I just wonder about what starcruser said  for the filters.
@jeg,

It looks like this is missing the input surge suppressor(s) caps and inductor already, looks like they were not installed and the inductor is jumpered out. I would check the caps and such following the diodes, draw out the schematic so you can get a picture of what you have and can detemine the operating frequency range. My concern is that the high freq noise might blow the large caps following the diodes due to voltage and spikes. it would be simple enough to replace them with the correct values to avoid the caps from popping. Electrolytics like to do that with AC.

What you might want to do is isolate the front end of the PSU from the rest of the circuit and scope the DC component and see how noisy it looks. you might want to pull the large caps to avoid them from potentially popping while you do this.

Just some ideas.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5508 on: October 03, 2014, 05:09:33 PM »
Guys thanks a lot for your help.

Void, this component at the input side is an NTC like the one akula uses between ground and the three turns yoke output circuit.
Starcruser, i feel you are absolute right about those electrolytics. They worry me also. I will try to unscrew the pcb so to draw a quick component connection to see what happens. I ll post the result.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5509 on: October 03, 2014, 05:19:36 PM »
Guys thanks a lot for your help.

Void, this component at the input side is an NTC like the one akula uses between ground and the three turns yoke output circuit.
Starcruser, i feel you are absolute right about those electrolytics. They worry me also. I will try to unscrew the pcb so to draw a quick component connection to see what happens. I ll post the result.

Jeg, see the edit I added to my comment above. You will likely want to add your own filtering
from the AC output of your device before going into the input of the power supply, to filter out
anything unwanted on the waveform such as any spikes or HF transients or whatever. I wouldn't see a problem
for the filter electrolytics if you do that, as long as they have a suitable voltage rating.  The best thing would be to
wait till you have your circuit putting out a decent AC output waveform (  8) ) in the right voltage range, then analyze
on a scope and you will see what sort of filtering you might require. That way there is no need to guess... ;)
All the best...
:)

Maybe someone can explain what the NTC (thermistor/varistor?) component is there for? Anyone know? Spike protection?

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5510 on: October 03, 2014, 05:23:34 PM »
P.S.
What is the voltage rating on the electrolytic filter caps right after the FWBR diodes?

You may well have to add a bit of your own filtering on the AC output of your device

I will check it again later on cause i am not home, but i think 370uF per cap

I have a bunch of varistors at 220V, thanks for notifying this!!

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5511 on: October 03, 2014, 05:30:19 PM »
I will check it again later on cause i am not home, but i think 370uF per cap

and the voltage rating on them? Just a double check to get an idea of what
sort of max input voltage you must not exceed into the power supply...

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5512 on: October 03, 2014, 05:30:59 PM »


Maybe someone can explain what the NTC (thermistor?) is there for? Anyone know? Spike protection?

The NTC acts as a thermal fuse in series with the mains supply. It is designed to take a surge on connection to the mains as the big cap (400v rated after the FWBR) charges up to around 375V. Don't alter the cap size as its designed to suit the current rating of the SMPS.

So long as the input voltage is not higher than the mains and is not spiking badly when scoped, then this should be fine. Most SMPS PSU's have quite a wide input voltage range. The input voltage is very unlikely to rise to the specified max when loaded by the device. C36,37,38 & L13 is the filter.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5513 on: October 03, 2014, 05:43:10 PM »
The NTC acts as a thermal fuse in series with the mains supply. It is designed to take a surge on connection to the mains as the big cap (400v rated after the FWBR) charges up to around 375V. Don't alter the cap size as its designed to suit the current rating of the SMPS.

Thanks Hoppy. So it is in series in the neutral line? It adds resistance and reduces current surge
until it warms up, and then has negligible resistance, or how does it work exactly?

Regarding the voltage on the electrolytics, 240Vrms x 1.414 = 340V
Would that not be the voltage on the filter caps?
Either way, I would hope the caps are rated at 450V if the operating voltage is that close,
but maybe they pinch every penny. ;)
All the best...

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5514 on: October 03, 2014, 05:58:40 PM »
Thanks Hoppy. So it is in series in the neutral line? It adds resistance and reduces current surge
until it warms up, and then has negligible resistance, or how does it work exactly?

Regarding the voltage on the electrolytics, 240Vrms x 1.414 = 340V
Would that not be the voltage on the filter caps?
Either way, I would hope the caps are rated at 450V if the operating voltage is that close,
but maybe they pinch every penny. ;)
All the best...

See:  http://www.digikey.co.uk/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/api-technologies-1171/pdf/api-ntc-engineering-notes.pdf?redirected=1

Most are 400V rated. This cap works very hard and must be a 105 degree working device with low ESR.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5515 on: October 03, 2014, 06:06:42 PM »
Most are 400V rated. This cap works very hard and must be a 105 degree working device with low ESR.

I see.

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5516 on: October 03, 2014, 06:25:44 PM »
For Russian speakers, I think Ruslan has commented on realstrannik that he would be willing
to use some group chat program to hold a group chat and answer people's questions.
Don't know if that will happen, but Ruslan suggested it recently, from what I could understand
using Google Translate anyway.  ;D Nick, do you speak some Russian? :)

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5517 on: October 03, 2014, 06:28:59 PM »
Input Caps are 470uF each, at 200V connected in series.
Diodes 1N540 series, I guess 5404. 

For reference, the input electrolytic are at the upper right corner of the PCB.

Offline Jeg

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5518 on: October 03, 2014, 06:38:07 PM »
And this small board

Offline Void

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #5519 on: October 03, 2014, 06:53:53 PM »
Input Caps are 470uF each, at 200V connected in series.
Diodes 1N540 series, I guess 5404. 

Hi Jeg. So if you make sure your input voltage to the power supply doesn't
exceed about 350 volts peak max (340 volts peak max would be even safer), and that there are no spikes
on the waveforms, you should be OK. You may also have to do some low pass filtering to filter out high frequencies,
 if there is a high frequency component in the devices output waveform.

The 1N5400 series are standard recovery time, as would be expected, so they would have to
be swapped with some fast power diodes of suitable current and voltage rating.
All the best...