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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 8458934 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #315 on: October 09, 2012, 02:09:12 PM »
Because L1 has an inductance of 3.02mH it means that it resists 4.6kHz AC sine wave as much as an 87Ω resistor (a.k.a. impedance).
Because W4 of Tr2 outputs a 4.6kHz rectangular wave, then this impedance is even higher because a rectangular wave also consists of many higher frequency sine waves (says Mr. Fourier).

So the question becomes: Why W4 of Tr2 cannot handle a >87Ω load?

Do you enable any other loads on your secondary windings?  If yes then disconnect them and report what happens.
At this point, it was just the neon's in series with a 1Mohm resistor, and a 22uf 12KV cap in parallel... on the once side, and L1 on the other... so the capacitor builds up and becomes high impedance...


So I got to a good tuning point for the TL949 side, and then connected the high voltage to the nanopulser and powered that up also, then the neons don't light.  The waves are all shorter, and no resonance at all is in L2 :/


I did notice the sequence of ops, which is why I started with just tuning the pulser to get the neon... but then turning on the nano-pulser shouldn't kill my neon, but it does....


87ohm resisitor, huh?  so you have a calculator for that?  I think I'm more at like 16Khz, which makes the toroid ring with 4khz... I find ferites ring with a frequency relative to their size... and I think it's been a misleading thing to use sound spectral analysis... espcially since there were harmonics at 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, ...

I mean to say... if you hit the ferrite alone without anything it gives off a certain tone, at harmonics of that frequency it will be strongest, and near frequencies will be quieter and taper off, then drop an octive and increase in loudness all the while increasing frequency

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #315 on: October 09, 2012, 02:09:12 PM »

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #316 on: October 09, 2012, 06:45:46 PM »
87ohm resistor, huh?  so you have a calculator for that?
Of course I have a calculation for that.
The 3.02mH inductor behaves as an 87Ω resistor to the 4.6kHz sine wave because Z=2*pi *L*f and this calculates to Z=6.283*0.00302H*4600Hz ≈ 87.286Ω
The 3.02mH inductor behaves as an 71Ω resistor to the 4.6kHz square wave because ZSQUARE = (16/pi) *L*f and this calculates to Z=5.093*0.00302H*4600Hz ≈ 71Ω
See Inductive Reactance.

The reason why the result for the square wave it is a little different is because a 4.6kHz square wave is composed of multiple additional sine waves:
  1f=      4.6kHz at 100% Amplitude,  Z≈87Ω   (the fundamental frequency)
  3f=    13.8kHz at   33% Amplitude,  Z≈786Ω 
  5f=    23.0kHz at   20% Amplitude,  Z≈2182Ω
  7f=    32.2kHz at   14% Amplitude,  Z≈4277Ω
  9f=    41.4kHz at   11% Amplitude,  Z≈7070Ω
11f=    50.6kHz at     9% Amplitude,  Z≈10562Ω
13f=    59.8kHz at     8% Amplitude,  Z≈14751Ω
15f=    69.0kHz at     7% Amplitude,  Z≈19639Ω
17f=    78.2kHz at     6% Amplitude,  Z≈25226Ω
19f=    87.4kHz at     5% Amplitude,  Z≈31510Ω
21f=    96.6kHz at     5% Amplitude,  Z≈38493Ω
23f=  105.8kHz at     4% Amplitude,  Z≈46174Ω
25f=  115.0kHz at     4% Amplitude,  Z≈54554Ω
27f=  124.2kHz at     4% Amplitude,  Z≈63632Ω
29f=  133.4kHz at     3% Amplitude,  Z≈73408Ω
etc...
The Z column lists the impedances of the inductor to each of these frequencies normalized by their respective amplitudes.

Now if you add all of those additional impedances as as parallel resistors (except the first one), you will get 1/786Ω + 1/2182Ω + 1/4277Ω + 1/7070Ω... ≈ 1/374Ω.
Precisely the combined normalized impedances of an inductor to all the additional harmonics of a square wave (except the fundamental) will always be 8/( pi^2 - 8 ) ≈ 4.27898 greater than the impedance to the fundamental frequency. 374Ω / 87Ω ≈ 4.29

When we add the impedance at the fundamental frequency in parallel, we can write that any inductor L resists a square wave 8/pi^2 times less than it resists a sine wave of the same frequency, yielding ZSQUARE = (16/pi) *L*f
Percentage wise, this makes the impedance of an inductor to a square wave 81% of the impedance to a sine wave of the same frequency.

Thus, the average current flowing through an inductor L stimulated by a square wave AC voltage source will always be (pi^2/8 ≈ 1.2337) times greater than the average current in the same inductor cause by a sine wave AC voltage source of the same frequency.

I think I'm more at like 16Khz, which makes the toroid ring with 4khz... I find ferrite ring with a frequency relative to their size... and I think it's been a misleading thing to use sound spectral analysis... especially since there were harmonics at 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, ...
4kHz sine wave is not a component of a 16kHz square wave.

I mean to say... if you hit the ferrite alone without anything it gives off a certain tone, at harmonics of that frequency it will be strongest, and near frequencies will be quieter and taper off, then drop an octave and increase in loudness all the while increasing frequency
I don't think so.
Ferrite "sings" because of magnetostriction - not because of their mechanical resonance.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 11:15:33 PM by verpies »

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #317 on: October 09, 2012, 09:24:33 PM »
Is there any reflection through a bridge rectifier?  Like is the capacitance on the other side actually part of the primary side?
No, the capacitor on the other side of the bridge rectifier does not present any load to the W3 secondary once it becomes fully charged.
...but maybe the nanopulser driver is discharging this capacitor too quickly.  Try to measure this discharge current caused by your nanopulser driver.

Also, verify with only a 68Ω resistor connected across W4 of Tr2 that this winding can really support such load at 4.6kHz square wave. (use 270Ω resistor if the output of W4 is 19.2kHz square wave).
Maybe that 1.5μF - 4μF capacitor in parallel with L2 poses too much of a load to W4 via L1's mutual inductance.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 11:29:07 PM by verpies »

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #317 on: October 09, 2012, 09:24:33 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #318 on: October 10, 2012, 12:04:21 AM »

4kHz sine wave is not a component of a 16kHz square wave.
I don't think so.
Ferrite "sings" because of magnetostriction - not because of their mechanical resonance.


It's 2 octives down, every octive is a harmonic of every other octive....

I'm not arguing the cause of the ringing (magnetostriction) but the frequency is definatly a product of physical characteristics.

The first image is a capture of the ring after hitting a toroid without any windings, it has a strong frequency of 9khz
The second image is a frequency sweep from high to low and back to high, stopping where it sounded the same, and the spectrograph shows a strong frequency at 9Khz


Working on uploading the videos, but since they are high def, it takes a bit to upload and convert...  But I have both the clips from when I 'clinked' the toroids together, and from tuning, with shots of the oscilloscope from the point of view of the base of the driving transisitors...


See also  http://youtu.be/Vws7Q3K-yoc and http://youtu.be/QhyzXXUdxWE

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #319 on: October 10, 2012, 12:13:16 AM »
@Itsu

The two schematics are contradicting each other because on the first schematic, the polarity of the pulses on W1 of Tr1 must be opposite to the polarity on the second schematic.

It looks as if somebody was trying to design a stronger nanopulser on the second schematic and failed to verify if it works at all.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #319 on: October 10, 2012, 12:13:16 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #320 on: October 10, 2012, 12:22:11 AM »
It's 2 octaves down, every octave is a harmonic of every other octave...
Mr.Fourier says that square wave has only odd harmonics and it does not have any subharmonics (no frequencies below the fundamental !).

See this video.

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #321 on: October 10, 2012, 01:38:01 AM »
@d3x0r

Can you show a scopeshot of the currents in your Tr2 primaries across 0.1Ω current sensing resistors?
Ch1 between A and B
Ch2 between A and C

First without any loads on W3 and W4 secondaries and then a second scopeshot - with purely resistive load on W4.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #321 on: October 10, 2012, 01:38:01 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #322 on: October 10, 2012, 04:41:36 AM »
Mr.Fourier says that square wave has only odd harmonics and it does not have any subharmonics (no frequencies below the fundamental !).

See this video.


Sure, I agree with that also, but then a square wave is composed of multiple frequencies, which will elicit the most response in the range of the toroids natural frequency using those harmonics that are the same as the toroid.  I had the same frequencies on other toroids and they did not audibly ring.


Yes I will try your suggested tests

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #323 on: October 10, 2012, 05:36:25 AM »


Can you show a scopeshot of the currents in your Tr2 primaries across 0.1Ω current sensing resistors?
Ch1 between A and B
Ch2 between A and C

First without any loads on W3 and W4 secondaries and then a second scopeshot - with purely resistive load on W4.


Okay, had some issues... I had the real ground still connected to the circuit, so as soon as I connected the scope ground on the power side, it was a short to ground...started with the scope on each side of a resistor and doing a math function to diff them....


But, located the issue, and then able to connect with the scope probe inside the resistor from power (coil side) and the ground on the other side of the resistor  (only had a 1ohm high wattage ceramic cap, so it's 1, not 0.1).... it wasn't as clear connecting the probe the other direction.


This is 0.12A draw on the power supply...


So, where I am tuned, was not where I expected myself... I'm actually at near 0% duty cycle, using it as a sharp pulse up and down, and a high frequency to get the ringing in the L2 good... if I open the duty cycle too wide, it goes kinda staticy (ksshsrsh, how does static sound? :) )  instead of a pure tone on the toroid, and really stops working pretty much altogether, and draws a LOT of current, and doesn't really give me any better voltage on the neons.  So a very high frequency and very low duty cycles makes this a different sort of nanopulser... so being at 30-80Khz, I still get a great 9Khz tone :)


I haven't loaded the winding differently yet


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmLxyoxGAy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Gs0XnFKj8
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 06:55:39 AM by d3x0r »

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #323 on: October 10, 2012, 05:36:25 AM »
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Offline mihai.isteniuc

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #324 on: October 10, 2012, 09:02:10 AM »
Hi,
 
I need a helping hand. I'm sure there is a post about a high voltage measuring scope but I cannot find it. Could you please point me in the right direction?
 
Thank's in advance
 
Mihai

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #325 on: October 10, 2012, 09:17:55 AM »
But, located the issue, and then able to connect with the scope probe inside the resistor from power (coil side) and the ground on the other side of the resistor  (only had a 1ohm high wattage ceramic cap, so it's 1, not 0.1).... it wasn't as clear connecting the probe the other direction.
Why wasn't it clear?
Was it because the pulses appeared to be "going down" ?

If "yes" then they were as they are supposed to be, because your 2N5401 transistors are pulling one side of the primary windings down to ground thus the pulses are "going down", too.
If you do not like these pulses having negative polarity then enable the "Invert" function, in the channel-setup of your scope.

In any case, the scope probe's "ground" leads should be connected to point A and the probe tips to points B and C.

When your scope channels are inverted and connected as I described above and the horizontal scale is stretched appropriately, the rising edge of the current in the primary should look like this:

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #325 on: October 10, 2012, 09:17:55 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #326 on: October 10, 2012, 09:29:30 AM »
From your videos, it seems that your primary is driven inefficiently (the blue case) and you are approaching the bad V/R current limit.
Anytime the current trace becomes horizontal, the (dΦ/dt=0) and no energy is transferred to the secondary windings.

This could be due to:
1) The Tr1 primary windings having insufficient inductances (e.g. due to insufficient turns)
2) The Current Sensing Resistors (CSR) being too large (they really should be 0.1Ω)
3) The 2N5401 transistors are not saturating completely (symptom: the voltage across the emitter and collector does not approach zero when the transistor is supposed to be conducting).
4) The switching frequency of the TL494 being too low (its pulses are too wide)

Also see this post.

Most likely the problem is the pt.1.
Once you move away from the V/R current limit and your rising current starts resembling a straight line (the green case), your Tr2 will become much more efficient and you will have much more energy available at its secondaries to drive the rest of your loads.

Offline Сергей В.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #327 on: October 10, 2012, 05:20:27 PM »
to itsu

Try old 1N5408 for DSRD diode in Nano-Pulser !! Use HV capacitor for Nano-Pulser 1-2n 1.5-2kV DC, minimum.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 06:59:58 PM by Сергей Ð’. »

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #328 on: October 10, 2012, 05:46:50 PM »
Try old 1N5408 for DSRD diode in Nano-Pulser !! Use HV capacitor for Nano-Pulser 1-2n 1.5-2kV DC, minimum.
@Сергей

The schematic diagram you posted will keep the MOSFET conducting most of the time and a destructive current will flow from the +150V power supply and through the 220 µH choke and W1.

Please explain how the circuit from your schematic is supposed to work.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #329 on: October 10, 2012, 06:20:28 PM »
Why wasn't it clear?
Was it because the pulses appeared to be "going down" ?

If "yes" then they were as they are supposed to be, because your 2N5401 transistors are pulling one side of the primary windings down to ground thus the pulses are "going down", too.
If you do not like these pulses having negative polarity then enable the "Invert" function, in the channel-setup of your scope.

In any case, the scope probe's "ground" leads should be connected to point A and the probe tips to points B and C.



Sorry I was unclear; just a quick note; I had grounds connected on B and C and that was unclear because the probes at A saw the voltage drop from both sides... reversing and putting grounds at A and probes at B and C it was clear....


It only seems to be a 3V drop; maybe it's insufficient drive, maybe it's that the power supply I was using is 3A limited.. but probably that the transistor isn't switching completely... have to try some things in a few hours at lunch

 

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