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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 7988910 times)

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17565 on: August 02, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »
Be aware you can not use the TC4420 in combination with the lossless clamb, they haven't got the ENABLE pin.

I asked Verpies about that.  The enable is simply a safeguard.  It isn't
mandatory.  Just make sure your push/pull driver has some dead time.

What this means is you can simplify Verpies circuit somewhat and use
it as a retrofit for pretty much any push/pull driver design.  The only
potential hang-up you may run into is getting all the windings to fit
on your core/yoke.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17565 on: August 02, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17566 on: August 02, 2017, 09:45:08 PM »

Nick,

i have taken a snickers as well, feeling much better now too.

Those gate signals looking good now, you have enough dead time inbetween the pulses, so the heating up cannot come from the MOSFETs overlapping their firing time.

Make sure you have installed MOSFETs that test out ok from verpies his MOSFET test diagram.


As Hoppy also said, you should not run with the yoke connected without snubbers, but to calculate the snubber values we need to run it first, so kind of a problem here.

If you really think/see something is wrong with the yoke (unbalans) then fix that first.
Then you could run with a lower drains voltage (12V), or use a low ohm (2 to 4 Ohm) power resistor in the 24V yoke lead or 2 12V automotiv bulbs in series so when there
is a high current draw, it will cause automatic decrease of voltage and so protect your MOSFETs.

For calculating a RC snubber setup, we need the drain voltage signals (spike / ringing) to calculate the ringing frequency, then follow this procedure to find out the correct
RC values for each MOSFET (between drain / source):  https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3835
So when we know the ringing frequency (111Khz in te last test according to the drain voltages, but i doubt they are valid in your present setup as i expect some ringing in the
10Mhz range) you should use some capacitors across the drain / source to try to half that frequency, etc. see the 5 steps in the linked procedure.

Like Dog-One mentioned, i also skipped the enable line protection on the lossless clamp diagram (Circled H (D5, R5 and R6) and circled I (D7, R7 and R8)) and the
optional helper Schottky diodes D1 and D2.
R11 and R12 are current sensor resistors, very handy, but not really needed too when it works OK.
When using TC4420's drivers, R1 and R2 can be substituted for a single resistor as the output pins on a TC4420 are connected together (pin 6 and 7)
Same for R3 and R4.

Anyway, take small steps so we don't overlook anything.


Itsu

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17567 on: August 02, 2017, 10:44:59 PM »

As Hoppy also said, you should not run with the yoke connected without snubbers, but to calculate the snubber values we need to run it first, so kind of a problem here

Itsu

This is why we have stressed in a few posts that Nick must first attempt to limit the supply current before experimenting and for calculating snubber values, otherwise he is inviting even more smoke! Currently, as I understand from Nick's posts, he driving the yoke without current limit or suitable snubbers!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17567 on: August 02, 2017, 10:44:59 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17568 on: August 03, 2017, 12:11:46 AM »
This is why we have stressed in a few posts that Nick must first attempt to limit the supply current before experimenting and for calculating snubber values, otherwise, he is inviting even more smoke! Currently, as I understand from Nick's posts, he driving the yoke without current limit or suitable snubbers!!
Ha Ha! Nicks new wave form is just PERFECT ;)  TO LIMIT SUPPLY IS EASY use a switchmode chip one of the SG3524 series regulator devices will work just fine or he can buy one (but problem) it will have an earth link, why not get a 50w 12volt or 2 in his case in series any fault and the bulb will light simple.

regards Allen (AG)

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17569 on: August 03, 2017, 12:13:42 AM »
    Itsu:
    Below are my current gate signals, showing a lower duty cycle.
  volts/div set at 10, and sec/div is at 20us.
  Let me know if you need anything else to figure the snubber values, and I'll always do as you suggest.

  TinselKoala: 
  Yes, my gates are getting 15v from the UC4420 drivers.
  My PSU is 24v, and the UC4420 drivers are getting 15v through the 15v voltage regulator, and to the gates.
  My TL494 circuit is getting 12v through the 12v regulators and filters.

     I've ALWAYS had hot running fets, always, no matter what I do. So, I think that the unbalanced problem as well as the overheating issues may be due to the yoke.  However, I'll install some snubbers, first. Even though the Stalker diagram which I'm following does not use any snubbers.  After that, I'll change to the new opposite windings yoke, and give that a try.

   apecore: Can you please upload Verpies lossless clamp diagram for me, as I don't have it anymore.
 Looking for it on the site, can be a pain in the butt.
   
   Thanks, guys.
 
brilliant display! like it !
PS the hunt for zero point goes on !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17569 on: August 03, 2017, 12:13:42 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17570 on: August 03, 2017, 02:00:23 AM »
The other thing that helped me get over a huge hurdle was the number of
turns on the primary for the core I was using.  My core could not handle
having only 12 turns per leg.  When I used 16 turns per leg, everything
worked fine for the frequency range I needed.  Pretty certain I was
saturating the core.  When your core saturates, snubbers will do nothing
to prevent the MOSFETs from heating up.  Basically you are dumping
gobs of current over a very short interval, especially if you have hefty
filter caps on the input power source.  That current turns directly into
heat at the point of highest resistance--your MOSFETs.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17571 on: August 03, 2017, 03:12:26 AM »
The other thing that helped me get over a huge hurdle was the number of
turns on the primary for the core I was using.  My core could not handle
having only 12 turns per leg.  When I used 16 turns per leg, everything
worked fine for the frequency range I needed.  Pretty certain I was
saturating the core.  When your core saturates, snubbers will do nothing
to prevent the MOSFETs from heating up.  Basically you are dumping
gobs of current over a very short interval, especially if you have hefty
filter caps on the input power source.  That current turns directly into
heat at the point of highest resistance--your MOSFETs.
is this a yoke or a toroid ? also are you using a cheap low-frequency ferrite from a 50 or 60 hz system as that could produce the effect you're having also you don't say what voltage you're using so your information could be misleading others who are perhaps using the correct components for the job, also did you bi-filar wind the drive windings ? and are you recycling the fly back spikes into the supply ? all this information could be useful to others who are struggling. for instance if using the correct toroid might only need 8 turns to achieve correct working at 12 volts drive using a bifilar winding.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17571 on: August 03, 2017, 03:12:26 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17572 on: August 03, 2017, 04:58:08 AM »
is this a yoke or a toroid ?

I used a 3 inch high-perm nanocrystaline toroid.  Expensive motha.

Once adjusted properly, I have no trouble pushing 500 watts of power through it.
MOSFETs run at room temperature.

also you don't say what voltage you're using so your information could be misleading others who are perhaps using the correct components for the job

48 volts per leg.  24 volts is easier to get working.  More volts, more turns.

As far as "using the correct components", I'll leave that to the reader to discern.

, also did you bi-filar wind the drive windings ? and are you recycling the fly back spikes into the supply ? all this information could be useful to others who are struggling. for instance if using the correct toroid might only need 8 turns to achieve correct working at 12 volts drive using a bifilar winding.

I used the resistive snubber setup that snags the back EMF, collects it in a cap
and dumps back to high value resistors.  Done this way, the resistors get hot
when you're doing something wrong.  They only get slightly warm when power
is actually transferring to the load as intended.  Therefore they make it super
simple to tell what's happening before even attaching a scope.  If you turn the
push/pull on with the inductor coil disconnected, these snubber resistors get hot
quick, because there is no load, everything is reflected energy.  On the other
hand, when you have the inductor coil connected, tuned and heating a metal
screwdriver almost orange, the snubbers run cool, because the power from the
push/pull is going to the load and not reflecting back.

Attached is the setup I assembled a couple of years ago and still use for
all sorts of projects requiring a good push/pull setup.  Works pretty well also
for a single leg pulser as long as you don't need more than 50% duty cycle.

If I was going to rework this circuit, I'd use 15 volt drive via pluggable DC-2-DC
converter for the gate and the SG3525 chip.  Other than that, this is battle
tested driver that meets all my expectations.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17573 on: August 03, 2017, 06:50:56 PM »
I used a 3 inch high-perm nanocrystaline toroid.  Expensive motha.

Once adjusted properly, I have no trouble pushing 500 watts of power through it.
MOSFETs run at room temperature.

48 volts per leg.  24 volts is easier to get working.  More volts, more turns.

As far as "using the correct components", I'll leave that to the reader to discern.

I used the resistive snubber setup that snags the back EMF, collects it in a cap
and dumps back to high value resistors.  Done this way, the resistors get hot
when you're doing something wrong.  They only get slightly warm when power
is actually transferring to the load as intended.  Therefore they make it super
simple to tell what's happening before even attaching a scope.  If you turn the
push/pull on with the inductor coil disconnected, these snubber resistors get hot
quick, because there is no load, everything is reflected energy.  On the other
hand, when you have the inductor coil connected, tuned and heating a metal
screwdriver almost orange, the snubbers run cool, because the power from the
push/pull is going to the load and not reflecting back.

Attached is the setup I assembled a couple of years ago and still use for
all sorts of projects requiring a good push/pull setup.  Works pretty well also
for a single leg pulser as long as you don't need more than 50% duty cycle.

If I was going to rework this circuit, I'd use 15 volt drive via pluggable DC-2-DC
converter for the gate and the SG3525 chip.  Other than that, this is battle
tested driver that meets all my expectations.
What on earth are you building ;) it does the job with a simple Signal generator fed into the inductor, I'm pretty sure a 2in by 1in torrid will suffice you don't need to drive a kw into the inverter to drive the input ;) the idea is the energy comes from the ground and the collected pull down static. plus some magic that's supposed to happen ;) if the input into the inductor is too much the insulation will melt and the thing will catch fire, been there tried that, with the cheap cable.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17573 on: August 03, 2017, 06:50:56 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17574 on: August 04, 2017, 05:25:11 AM »
   So I bought some more wire to finish my new yoke coil windings
  The Free motha. Well, almost free.
  So I'll be testing the reversed windings style, like Stalkers uses.
That is, where the two yoke secondary coils, are reversed from the 12 and 12 turn primary coil.
  Yep, looking for the magic...

  Itsu:
   I've made some close up scope shots of just the two fet's drain ringing signals, expanded,  to study the frequency on each one of the two ringing part of their wave form. I'll post them a little later, so we can match up the snubber values for them.
   I'll test the new yoke without the snubbers on, first, cause my FETs are junk, anyway. According to Hoppy, And they might all be bad, but there might be a couple fets that will work, for now. Anyway, the new FETs and scope are coming soon.
Hopefully the new yoke will work more balanced, and the drains ringing signal will look more similar and flater, and having less than the 100-120v peaks that I showed previously. Then the snubbers should be able to drop those nasty peaks.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17575 on: August 04, 2017, 09:28:01 AM »
   
I'll test the new yoke without the snubbers on, first, cause my FETs are junk, anyway. According to Hoppy, And they might all be bad, but there might be a couple fets that will work, for now.

Nick,

To preserve your remaining two good mosfets, hopefully you will add a current limit to your PSU, using auto bulbs as suggested.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17575 on: August 04, 2017, 09:28:01 AM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17576 on: August 04, 2017, 11:58:31 AM »
Do we know or suspect that someone has a working device? I think I got the concept right and I need to ask 2 questions

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17577 on: August 04, 2017, 12:38:34 PM »

Nick,

each yoke configuration has its own characteristics like inductance and capacitance caused by the used yoke ferrite, a used yoke gap if any, the primary coils dimensions,
the secondary (3 turn / 28 turn) coils dimensions, the interconnection leads inductance / capacitance, the MOSFETs output capacitance etc. etc. etc.

So for to calculate an effective snubber, we first need to have a stable yoke configuration.
It makes no sense to calculate a snubber RC value, and then use a different yoke configuration as that snubber won't work anymore.

I think it therefor would be the best to build up your new yoke using known good MOSFETs and connect it up to your inductor/grenade so we have a stable new loaded situation.
Then use low voltage on the drains and use some current limiting (power resistor / automotive bulbs) component to fire up.

Use your new scope to supply some hopefully now crisp screenshots of the gate and drain signals.
Then we can calculate any snubber RC values in trying to minimize the spikes / ringing.

Itsu

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17578 on: August 04, 2017, 02:09:17 PM »
Nick,

To preserve your remaining two good mosfets, hopefully you will add a current limit to your PSU, using auto bulbs as suggested.
yeah good idea some regulators can do it LM317 and a resistor but it will get hot once it starts to conduct.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17579 on: August 04, 2017, 02:16:02 PM »
   So I bought some more wire to finish my new yoke coil windings
  The Free motha. Well, almost free.
  So I'll be testing the reversed windings style, like Stalkers uses.
That is, where the two yoke secondary coils, are reversed from the 12 and 12 turn primary coil.
  Yep, looking for the magic...

  Itsu:
   I've made some close up scope shots of just the two fet's drain ringing signals, expanded,  to study the frequency on each one of the two ringing part of their wave form. I'll post them a little later, so we can match up the snubber values for them.
   I'll test the new yoke without the snubbers on, first, cause my FETs are junk, anyway. According to Hoppy, And they might all be bad, but there might be a couple fets that will work, for now. Anyway, the new FETs and scope are coming soon.
Hopefully, the new yoke will work more balanced, and the drains ringing signal will look more similar and flater, and having less than the 100-120v peaks that I showed previously. Then the snubbers should be able to drop those nasty peaks.
Nick, Itsu, Hoppy,  any chance you can all show your 4 turn output winding waveform ? that would be interesting, preferably open circuit. I'm sure we could all help each other that way, PS any one had anything from Geo or T1000 ?

 

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