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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 8537514 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10500 on: September 28, 2015, 08:06:14 PM »
   The 1.7Mhz of the Kacher must some how be in sync up with the 37.5 meter 168 turns grenade output coil, as well as with the grenade inductor (resonator) coil.
  Does any one have a signal generator, and a 168 turns, 37.5 meter grenade coil built up, that can test the self resonant frequency of the coil?

  I added some turns back onto my Kacher secondary coil. But, I still just a have 1mm spark, and no streaming.
  Here's a scope shot, using channel 2, and my 100x probe.  I count 2.9 sections?
 

 

So, what is the frequency shown on the scope? Please point out where you see "2.9 sections" by indicating it on the photo.

Let's try to do it properly. Do you have a calculator?

It's barely possible, in your photo, to see that the scope's horizontal timebase setting is at 1 microsecond per division.

So how much time is represented by the middle 8 divisions of the graticule? 8 microseconds? Right. That is (8 x 0.000001 sec) right?

8 divisions x 1 microsecond per division = 8 microseconds. This is the time interval you are measuring.

We don't count the leftmost and rightmost edges because of the analog distortion of the CRT display. (You have moved your whole trace to the right, though, so you have introduced some distortion just by doing that.)

Now how many peaks, or in this case valleys (negative peaks, since you have placed one negative peak right on a graticule line) are contained in that 8 microseconds? I count almost exactly 19 valleys. This is the number of full cycles you have measured during that 8 microseconds.

So if you have 19 cycles PER 8 microseconds, what is your frequency in Hz (cycles PER second) ? Get out your calculator and solve.

19 / 0.000008 = ?? 


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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10500 on: September 28, 2015, 08:06:14 PM »

Offline John.K1

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10501 on: September 28, 2015, 08:11:41 PM »
Hi TK,

I need your expertise.  I have a  cap/coil    and I need to find its resonant frequency. The same setup as we can see in Akula's video SG and Scope on one side of the coil, both grounds connected.  Sweeping frequency up to 10MHz doesn't shows some extremities. FTT shot shows some harmonics.  My question is , those harmonics are test frequency related?  at 4.5 MHz signal used the high peaks shows every 4.6MHz, and when I use 8Mhz the peaks are nicely distributed every 2Mhz . I do something wrong or I do not know to use FTT.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10502 on: September 28, 2015, 08:35:33 PM »
hi TinselKoala,

I have already given up in trying to teach an old dog new tricks.Maybe you would have better luck with the intention help someone not to use a Mazilli circuit which i have mentioned few times before it is a pain to tune the frequency.

But i hey i stop anyone from doing any kind of repetitive experiment which they "feel" it's right.

The SG3525AN is a better PWM generator than a TL494.The source-sink is around 450mA for SG2525AN but for TL494 it's mere 200mA.
I am still wondering why PWM is a desired strategy here at all. The TL494 is a very popular chip among solid-state Tesla coil builders even today but it's seldom used as a PWM driver; rather, people use it to make the basic squarewave pulse at the desired resonant frequency, to drive a mosfet bridge ( with a proper gate driver between) which feeds the TC primary. My TinselKoil II uses this strategy very effectively. The 494 isn't able to meet the high frequency demands of a small TC though, but the genuine Texas Instruments TL494 can be made to work at much higher frequencies than it is "officially" rated for.
 
The SG3525 is a PWM motor controller chip, I have Arduino shields that use that chip to directly drive small motors. I even have a couple of the Velleman K8004 PWM motor driver kits that use this chip; in this service the frequency is generally chosen to match the particular motor you are driving, and then the pulse width is used to control the speed (average power) of the motor.

By far the best strategy for driving resonant circuits (imho) is to use a Phase Locked Loop like the CD4046BE as the basic oscillator, with feedback so that the oscillator "locks in" to the actual resonant frequency, or some multiple or divisor of it as determined by other logic chips, so that the system remains in the resonant state as the actual resonant frequency changes with changing loads, environments, etc. With the appropriate high current, fast, mosfet gate driver chips between the PLL and the mosfets of course. This is the strategy used in my TinselKoil IX (but with discrete transistor mosfet driver rather than a driver chip.)

Quote
If the choosen mosfet gate capacitance is below 2000nf.The SG3525AN is able to provide a nice square waveform directly to mosfet and without distortion.

Perhaps you meant "pf" not "nf" ? At the frequencies you are talking about here, it will still be better to use a mosfet driver after the pulse generator, like TC4420 for example, or a driver stage of discrete transistors, which can provide several amps of current to the mosfet Gate for clean switching.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10502 on: September 28, 2015, 08:35:33 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10503 on: September 28, 2015, 08:47:39 PM »
(snip)

By far the best strategy for driving resonant circuits (imho) is to use a Phase Locked Loop like the CD4046BE as the basic oscillator, with feedback so that the oscillator "locks in" to the actual resonant frequency, or some multiple or divisor of it as determined by other logic chips, so that the system remains in the resonant state as the actual resonant frequency changes with changing loads, environments, etc.

Thats how Ruslan latest designs are doing it, see the (very big) diagram a few days back here:
http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg461537/#msg461537

Regards Itsu

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10504 on: September 28, 2015, 08:53:36 PM »
Hi TK,

I need your expertise.  I have a  cap/coil    and I need to find its resonant frequency. The same setup as we can see in Akula's video SG and Scope on one side of the coil, both grounds connected.  Sweeping frequency up to 10MHz doesn't shows some extremities. FTT shot shows some harmonics.  My question is , those harmonics are test frequency related?  at 4.5 MHz signal used the high peaks shows every 4.6MHz, and when I use 8Mhz the peaks are nicely distributed every 2Mhz . I do something wrong or I do not know to use FTT.

I can't see the details very well on the screenshots you've provided. I think that your FFT is probably just showing the spectral content of your test signal and you aren't picking up the actual response of your device under test yet. It is possible that your resonant frequency is higher than 10 MHz or other things may be happening as well. What are the details of your coil and capacitor?

You could try this method: take your FG and connect it to a couple of turns of wire wrapped around the coil you are testing, with a 50 ohm resistor in series. So the FG isn't actually connected to the device under test at all, it is only connected to this few turns coil around your actual device (through the 50R). Take your scope probe and connect it to a 100k or 1 meghohm resistor and connect the resistor to the top of the coil you are testing. Then sweep the frequency of the FG, looking for the changes in voltage of the signal picked up by the scope probe. When the signal peaks this will be your resonant frequency -- assuming that the frequency is in the range covered by your sweep.

Perhaps this video may be useful to you, I think it is showing the same method that you are talking about from the Akula video, but I'm not sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alkfoX62Na0

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10504 on: September 28, 2015, 08:53:36 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10505 on: September 28, 2015, 09:27:08 PM »
I am still wondering why PWM is a desired strategy here at all. The TL494 is a very popular chip among solid-state Tesla coil builders even today but it's seldom used as a PWM driver; rather, people use it to make the basic squarewave pulse at the desired resonant frequency, to drive a mosfet bridge ( with a proper gate driver between) which feeds the TC primary. My TinselKoil II uses this strategy very effectively. The 494 isn't able to meet the high frequency demands of a small TC though, but the genuine Texas Instruments TL494 can be made to work at much higher frequencies than it is "officially" rated for.
 

I think its just because the TL494 has been shown on most of the Russian schematics and the challenge has been to replicate as shown or at least as close as possible to the schematics. However, as you rightly say, the PLL approach is more elegant and a better approach.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10506 on: September 28, 2015, 09:33:00 PM »
   TK: 19 divided by 0.000008= 2.375Mhz  Correct?

    Sorry about the bad scope shots, I'll do it again.  I took the pics down, and I'll replace them with new ones.
 
    There also seams to be better and worse frequency levels for my Kacher circuit to run at. But, I'd like to get back seeing the 3mm streamers, and HF stinging, that I had observe previously.
 
   

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10506 on: September 28, 2015, 09:33:00 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10507 on: September 28, 2015, 09:39:22 PM »
  Magpwr:
  What, are you getting off on insulting me, again, with your "old dog new tricks" bit?
  What new tricks. I haven't see anything that is OU, self running, or even close to it, from any of your "new tricks", as yet.
  Every comment I've heard from you towards what I'm doing is an insult. You feel good now?
  Why don't you just SHOW us what you've got going that is so trick, so new and exciting. I can't wait... but I won't hold my breath.
 
  Do you think that you're telling me something that I don't know, after I've been working for over a year with the Mazilli circuit.
                                                                                                                                                                           Old dog.

   

Offline John.K1

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10508 on: September 28, 2015, 09:48:26 PM »
Thanks TK,

I do sometimes measure the resonance as you say, just couple turns of wire around measured device. I only do not use the resistors as you suggest- I probably should.

Yesterday I just decided to give it a try as seen on Akula's channel and logically it should work -and I decided to test it using FTT.

My cap coil is actually two aluminium foils forming capacitor on the 40mm tube - but connected as a Tesla bi-fillar coil. In other words it is Tesla bi-fillar  coil made of aluminium foils (around 7 turns).

I have measured it now as you suggested and I have still the same result. What ever signal I use FTT shows the harmonics of the pitch of given frequency. Isn't it weird?   


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10508 on: September 28, 2015, 09:48:26 PM »
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Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10509 on: September 28, 2015, 09:54:18 PM »
Nickz    Not TK but your sum is right !  TK: 19 divided by 0.000008= 2.375Mhz  Correct?

yeah 2.375 mhz or   2,375khz or 2,375,000.0 hz
   

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10510 on: September 28, 2015, 10:04:08 PM »
Thanks TK,

I do sometimes measure the resonance as you say, just couple turns of wire around measured device. I only do not use the resistors as you suggest- I probably should.

Yesterday I just decided to give it a try as seen on Akula's channel and logically it should work -and I decided to test it using FTT.

My cap coil is actually two aluminium foils forming capacitor on the 40mm tube - but connected as a Tesla bi-fillar coil. In other words it is Tesla bi-fillar  coil made of aluminium foils (around 7 turns).

I have measured it now as you suggested and I have still the same result. What ever signal I use FTT shows the harmonics of the pitch of given frequency. Isn't it weird?


John,

i also tried it the Akula way, see screenshot below, but it did not work for me either.
The sweep is flatlined all the way, no resonance peaks seen, just measuring the FG output,  the attached coil has very little influence.

Regards Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10510 on: September 28, 2015, 10:04:08 PM »
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Offline John.K1

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10511 on: September 28, 2015, 10:14:01 PM »
Hi Itsu,

So I am not only one. :D 

It might look like my question or device is a bit of this thread, BUT  in the Akula's movie he shows the coils under the Tesla's antenna and he ask him self the question " how we will charge (collect) the energy on this CAPACITOR  which has 15 turns (if i right understood :)   )

The device I measure is for different project but I want to try it as that Capacitor /coil showed in the movie. I need to know what is it's resonant frequency so I can adjust my test Tesla coil.  Sorry TK I didn't take a look at your movie yet. I will do it soon.

regards,

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10512 on: September 28, 2015, 10:34:14 PM »
   The 1.7Mhz of the Kacher must some how be in sync up with the 37.5 meter 168 turns grenade output coil, as well as with the grenade inductor (resonator) coil.
  Does any one have a signal generator, and a 168 turns, 37.5 meter grenade coil built up, that can test the self resonant frequency of the coil?

  I added some turns back onto my Kacher secondary coil. But, I still just a have 1mm spark, and no streaming.
  I'll take some new scope shots, soon. I didn't like the ones that i just took.
 

 


Nick,

i "scanned" my grenade coil (168 turn coil) for resonance, and i used the inductor (bifilar) coil around the lower part of this grenade as injectionpoint from my FG.
Also the antenna with the ferrite rod coil connection to the kacher was installed, so these all could have influenced the resonance frequency.

But as you can see i have a distinct resonance point around 1.4Mhz with, i think, a 3th subharmonic visible at 460Khz
So in my case i would try to set the kacher to this resonance frequency (1.4Mhz)

But as now the inductor (bifilar) coil was not connected into the circuit (with the 3-turn coil, 0.47uF cap etc) things (resonance) could
shift once you hook it up, so its not that simple and tuning still will be needed in the life system.


Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 10:24:29 AM by itsu »

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10513 on: September 28, 2015, 10:41:08 PM »

John,

i also tried it the Akula way, see screenshot below, but it did not work for me either.
The sweep is flatlined all the way, no resonance peaks seen, just measuring the FG output,  the attached coil has very little influence.

Regards Itsu

Nor me Itsu. I tried this yesterday and also found it flatlined.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10514 on: September 29, 2015, 01:16:46 AM »
   TK: 19 divided by 0.000008= 2.375Mhz  Correct?
Yes, correct. I hope you can see where the numbers came from on your scopeshot. If not, just ask and I'll be glad to explain. Forgive me if I seem a little "testy" at times.
Quote

    Sorry about the bad scope shots, I'll do it again.  I took the pics down, and I'll replace them with new ones.

The images weren't "bad" just a little hard to see what needed to be seen. No worries, we got it done. If you have some kind of simple graphics program you can put the relevant knob setting information directly onto the picture of the scope screen as text; this will also help you when you go back and look at your various saved scopeshots.

Quote
 
    There also seams to be better and worse frequency levels for my Kacher circuit to run at. But, I'd like to get back seeing the 3mm streamers, and HF stinging, that I had observe previously.
 
   

Don't forget that high voltage overcomes insulation. You could be leaking, shorting, spraying corona from sharp points, etc. Working with HV HF takes practice and care. Layout is important, proper spacing is important, and I've learned that insulation cannot always be trusted. Once a carbon trace forms it will only get worse; pinholes in plastic insulation on wires can give you fits trying to track it down....

 

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