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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 8541783 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10485 on: September 27, 2015, 11:05:00 PM »
You'll need to use a higher-current output stage with that 494 board though; those little transistors on the board aren't going to be able to handle much power. The H-bridge of IRF3205s shown in one of those schematics might be a good choice of output stage.

Right,

Nick should use his IRFP260N's from his mazilla (with MOSFET drivers in front) to follow this tl494 board.

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10485 on: September 27, 2015, 11:05:00 PM »

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10486 on: September 27, 2015, 11:45:12 PM »
Nick, it reads 25Khz as that is what the mazilla is driving it with at the moment, but that is not the resonance frequency of the 2x 12 turn bifilar inductor coil with the 0.47uF cap.

Try to get it in resonance as mentioned before.

Regards Itsu

   Itsu:   
    Perhaps I should assume that Ruslan has already found those matching resonant frequencies, for his 37.5 meter long 168 turns grenade output coil, and the matching thick 37.5 meter earth ground line. And so, he's running the Kacher, and the grenade's inductor coil circuit at their best harmonic resonant peaks and frequencies for each circuit, already, as is shown on some videos.  27.3Khz, for the induction coil circuit, and 1.7Mhz for his Kacher.
Maybe I need to go there?  I've never been, there...  I might like it, who knows.
  100khz OFF the target frequency, and I won't see the "effect".  But, I'm seeing some small effects even now, and I'm getting better at sniffing out the active "sweet spots", as well.   Man and the machine.... united as one.

  Hoppy: I get it, already. But, everything takes time.  It's free remember, and I just got notice that my clip lead scope probes will work on the signal gen. So now, I have to study up a bit on just how to use a SG, etz...
Assuming that I can still borrow one, as I don't want to have to buy one just for a single frequency test on the grenade coil.
If Ruslan is using the frequency of 1.7Mhz to drive the Kacher, for his previous device. Then,  THAT is the resonate frequency of the grenade's output coil. Or it should be. Right?

   

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10487 on: September 28, 2015, 12:28:09 AM »
Right,

Nick should use his IRFP260N's from his mazilla (with MOSFET drivers in front) to follow this tl494 board.

Itsu

  That's kind of how I see it, also. Use the TL494 board to control the Mazilli/yoke frequency. If it will handle the amps.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10487 on: September 28, 2015, 12:28:09 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10488 on: September 28, 2015, 02:27:32 AM »
  That's kind of how I see it, also. Use the TL494 board to control the Mazilli/yoke frequency. If it will handle the amps.
It won't be a Mazilli then. The Mazilli/Royer type oscillator's frequency is determined by the inductance of the yoke or other coil, and the capacitor that is across (in parallel with) that coil. It is an _autoresonant_ circuit that automatically runs at the resonant frequency of the tank circuit formed by the L of the coil and the C of the capacitor.

For the Mazilli (without other oscillator):
If you had an inductance meter and a capacitance meter you could measure these values and plug them into the Resonant Frequency Calculation here:
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm
and the result would be in agreement with what you measure on your scope. Conversely, say that you know your capacitance accurately (because it's marked on your new capacitors.) Then you can plug in the cap value, and the measured frequency, and the calculator will give you the inductance of your yoke coil. Now that you know the inductance of the yoke, you can _calculate_ the capacitor value required to give you whatever frequency you need, using the same calculator. Or vice-versa, known capacitance and desired frequency means you can calculate the required inductance. It's an equation with three parts: f, L and C. If you know any two values you can find the third by the Calculator.

You can certainly drive your Yoke coil with some other driver architecture, like the 494 module driving an H-bridge or etc. but it won't be a Mazilli and it won't automatically achieve the resonant frequency of the L-C tank. In fact if you try to drive an L-C tank circuit at some frequency other than its natural resonant frequency... strange things will happen. It will be like trying to push a child on a swing, at some other times and rates than when it's at the top of the swing each time.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10489 on: September 28, 2015, 02:45:05 AM »
A basic electronics workbench needs to have at very least these 4 fundamental instruments:
Oscilloscope
Function (aka Signal) Generator
DMM,   TRMS if possible
Voltage Regulated, current-limiting adjustable Power Supply (CV-CC PSU)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10489 on: September 28, 2015, 02:45:05 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10490 on: September 28, 2015, 04:08:10 AM »
   TK:
   Yes, those 4 things would be nice to have.  Someday, one step at a time. But, like yourself, I don't have much room.

   The difference of using the same fets, and changing a few snubber components to match what the TL494 board requires, does not sound like mayor surgery.
  Does it matter if the Mazilli becomes something other than a Mazilli circuit?  No, not to me.  However, I'd still like to see what the Mazilli/yoke/grenade/Kacher combo that I've been working on can do, at resonance. So, that's the plan, for now.
And, it's good practice, resonance sniffing...  but, I think that I should also try to replicate Ruslan's same running frequencies, to see if I get any effect there. As he has already found them (those resonant points), for his device. And, it's the same 168 turns grenade coil, and 37.5m ground line that I'm using, or similar.
Except for my 12,12 turns bifilar induction coil, which may need a new rewind, or,  maybe not.
I can also still remove another turn off of my 4 turns coil, and have just 3 turns, if needed to tune that circuit.
 
   At these prices for the ZVS drivers, $12,  it makes me wonder why I even bother to build the Mazilli. There's different models, also.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZVS-Tesla-Flyback-driver-board-Zero-Voltage-Switching-f-FBT-inductive-heater-/331551087678?tfrom=331561472454&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined
 

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10491 on: September 28, 2015, 10:30:15 AM »

  Hoppy: I get it, already. But, everything takes time.  It's free remember, and I just got notice that my clip lead scope probes will work on the signal gen. So now, I have to study up a bit on just how to use a SG, etz...
Assuming that I can still borrow one, as I don't want to have to buy one just for a single frequency test on the grenade coil.
If Ruslan is using the frequency of 1.7Mhz to drive the Kacher, for his previous device. Then,  THAT is the resonate frequency of the grenade's output coil. Or it should be. Right?
 

Nick,

Its more likely to be a strong harmonic of the grenade coils natural higher resonant frequency. As Itsu has guided you, you can find the resonant frequency of your inductor combo without the signal generator but its very likely that this will need to be altered to match a suitable low frequency at a 50th, 60th or 100th division of the grenade coil frequency.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10491 on: September 28, 2015, 10:30:15 AM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10492 on: September 28, 2015, 03:28:12 PM »
Does that mean that TK will then fund the parts for all the benches out there?

Waiting

Offline verpies

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10493 on: September 28, 2015, 03:57:36 PM »
A basic electronics workbench needs to have at very least these 4 fundamental instruments:
Oscilloscope
Function (aka Signal) Generator
DMM,   TRMS if possible
Voltage Regulated, current-limiting adjustable Power Supply (CV-CC PSU)
...and more advanced workbench?
VNA? LRC bridge? RF wideband analog amp?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10493 on: September 28, 2015, 03:57:36 PM »
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Offline magpwr

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10494 on: September 28, 2015, 06:11:38 PM »
It won't be a Mazilli then. The Mazilli/Royer type oscillator's frequency is determined by the inductance of the yoke or other coil, and the capacitor that is across (in parallel with) that coil. It is an _autoresonant_ circuit that automatically runs at the resonant frequency of the tank circuit formed by the L of the coil and the C of the capacitor.

For the Mazilli (without other oscillator):
If you had an inductance meter and a capacitance meter you could measure these values and plug them into the Resonant Frequency Calculation here:
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm
and the result would be in agreement with what you measure on your scope. Conversely, say that you know your capacitance accurately (because it's marked on your new capacitors.) Then you can plug in the cap value, and the measured frequency, and the calculator will give you the inductance of your yoke coil. Now that you know the inductance of the yoke, you can _calculate_ the capacitor value required to give you whatever frequency you need, using the same calculator. Or vice-versa, known capacitance and desired frequency means you can calculate the required inductance. It's an equation with three parts: f, L and C. If you know any two values you can find the third by the Calculator.

You can certainly drive your Yoke coil with some other driver architecture, like the 494 module driving an H-bridge or etc. but it won't be a Mazilli and it won't automatically achieve the resonant frequency of the L-C tank. In fact if you try to drive an L-C tank circuit at some frequency other than its natural resonant frequency... strange things will happen. It will be like trying to push a child on a swing, at some other times and rates than when it's at the top of the swing each time.

hi TinselKoala,

I have already given up in trying to teach an old dog new tricks.Maybe you would have better luck with the intention help someone not to use a Mazilli circuit which i have mentioned few times before it is a pain to tune the frequency.

But i hey i stop anyone from doing any kind of repetitive experiment which they "feel" it's right.

The SG3525AN is a better PWM generator than a TL494.The source-sink is around 450mA for SG2525AN but for TL494 it's mere 200mA.

If the choosen mosfet gate capacitance is below 2000nf.The SG3525AN is able to provide a nice square waveform directly to mosfet and without distortion.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10495 on: September 28, 2015, 06:30:35 PM »
hi TinselKoala,

I have already given up in trying to teach an old dog new tricks.Maybe you would have better luck with the intention help someone not to use a Mazilli circuit which i have mentioned few times before it is a pain to tune the frequency.

The SG3525AN is a better PWM generator than a TL494.The source-sink is around 450mA for SG2525AN but for TL494 it's mere 200mA.


Some people prefer to learn the hard way!

I too favour the SG3525 over the TL494 although I prefer not to drive mosfets direct from its outputs but it can be done as you point out.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10495 on: September 28, 2015, 06:30:35 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10496 on: September 28, 2015, 07:20:28 PM »
   The 1.7Mhz of the Kacher must some how be in sync up with the 37.5 meter 168 turns grenade output coil, as well as with the grenade inductor (resonator) coil.
  Does any one have a signal generator, and a 168 turns, 37.5 meter grenade coil built up, that can test the self resonant frequency of the coil?

  I added some turns back onto my Kacher secondary coil. But, I still just a have 1mm spark, and no streaming.
  I'll take some new scope shots, soon. I didn't like the ones that i just took.
 

 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10497 on: September 28, 2015, 07:41:56 PM »
Does that mean that TK will then fund the parts for all the benches out there?

Waiting

Does that mean that you lot are going to start paying me for all the valuable consulting services I'm doing for you?

Don't hold your breath. Try being nice to those who are helping you. If you think you can do effective work in this area without those four items of test equipment, go for it.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10498 on: September 28, 2015, 07:46:11 PM »
...and more advanced workbench?
VNA? LRC bridge? RF wideband analog amp?
Sure, those are nice to have if you need them. I'd put a frequency counter of some kind and a plain old spectrum analyzer ahead of those though. Oh... let's not forget a _calculator_.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10499 on: September 28, 2015, 07:51:32 PM »
   TK:
   Yes, those 4 things would be nice to have.  Someday, one step at a time. But, like yourself, I don't have much room.

   The difference of using the same fets, and changing a few snubber components to match what the TL494 board requires, does not sound like mayor surgery.
  Does it matter if the Mazilli becomes something other than a Mazilli circuit?  No, not to me.  However, I'd still like to see what the Mazilli/yoke/grenade/Kacher combo that I've been working on can do, at resonance. So, that's the plan, for now.
And, it's good practice, resonance sniffing...  but, I think that I should also try to replicate Ruslan's same running frequencies, to see if I get any effect there. As he has already found them (those resonant points), for his device. And, it's the same 168 turns grenade coil, and 37.5m ground line that I'm using, or similar.
Except for my 12,12 turns bifilar induction coil, which may need a new rewind, or,  maybe not.
I can also still remove another turn off of my 4 turns coil, and have just 3 turns, if needed to tune that circuit.
 
   At these prices for the ZVS drivers, $12,  it makes me wonder why I even bother to build the Mazilli. There's different models, also.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZVS-Tesla-Flyback-driver-board-Zero-Voltage-Switching-f-FBT-inductive-heater-/331551087678?tfrom=331561472454&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined
 

Take a close look at that ZVS board, and the different models, and note carefully what you see. You are _already using_ the circuit found on that board. The main difference is that the board is laid out properly and so will probably be more stable and less likely to destroy components. For 12 dollars it's only a little more expensive than you'd spend on the components to build your own.

 

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