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Author Topic: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?  (Read 600419 times)

TinselKoala

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #315 on: March 04, 2013, 04:08:24 AM »
    Bill and All:
    I've been asking for this one simple proof of concept, using an AA, or cap, to test the discharge rate, so that it can also be further verified by us here as well as on other forums.  Even by those of us that don't have any test instruments. Just a cap or battery on the circuit.  I've never ever heard of any reply back, only scope shots, after scope shots, after even more scope shots. With no self runner (still presently running), to show for it all though, as yet. Hopefully this will all be verified, some time soon. 
 

Are you looking for something like this? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5G0PyJsoyo
It's relatively easy to know just how much energy you are _actually_ supplying to the circuit by looking at the time it takes for a capacitor to discharge by a known amount.

TinselKoala

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #316 on: March 04, 2013, 04:24:31 AM »
Here are the last two scopeshots representing "output" that Lawrence posted up above, in posts 292 and 314. Notice anything interesting?





ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #317 on: March 04, 2013, 05:35:47 AM »
This is the first attempt to use the boards in a two stage fashion.  The Output of Board 71 is used as Input to Board 72.  However, not all the Output was used as Input.  The Output was parallel to the LED (connecting B1 and B3). 
 
The encouraging sign is that COP was -1.70 but the actual Input and Output Power values were very low.  This means the board will have to be redesigned to test the loopback feature.  More work and more challenge.  Any suggestions???
 
The Input waveform in this case is pulsed as expected.

MileHigh

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #318 on: March 04, 2013, 05:54:30 AM »
TK:

Quote
Here are the last two scopeshots representing "output" that Lawrence posted up above, in posts 292 and 314. Notice anything interesting?

I am stumped.  I see that in the lower capture the scope probe on the voltage waveform must have been on 10X attenuation but that's not interesting.  There is a lot of noise on the current waveform but chances are that's normal at that gain setting.

Those waveforms relate back to my posting #271:

Quote
The torque that you put on the flywheel from pedaling is the battery voltage.  The torque that the flywheel puts on the belt during the braking is the coil voltage [or the LED voltage] when it's de-energizing.  The rotational speed of the flywheel is the current through the coil.

So the output waveforms represent the "belt applying braking to the rotating flywheel."

Beyond that, I am not sure what you are suggesting.  Duh.

MileHigh

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #319 on: March 04, 2013, 07:20:09 AM »
Are you looking for something like this? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5G0PyJsoyo
It's relatively easy to know just how much energy you are _actually_ supplying to the circuit by looking at the time it takes for a capacitor to discharge by a known amount.

It is great to see the many experts are focusing on this thread.  The oscilloscope test-ready boards should be in the hands of many such experts within the next few days.  The point I would like the experts to focus on is the negative power on the Input.
 
What does that really mean???  I can wait until the experts see the same thing on their own oscilloscopes.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #320 on: March 04, 2013, 10:21:45 AM »
This is the second attempt to do the 2 stage JT.  To my surprise, the Input Vpp was higher than the Output Vpp.  The COP was -1.24.  It appears that the 2 stage JT circuit has a much more complex feedback mechanism than simple addition.
 
MORE RESEARCH NEEDED.

poynt99

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #321 on: March 04, 2013, 02:57:38 PM »
Here are the last two scopeshots representing "output" that Lawrence posted up above, in posts 292 and 314. Notice anything interesting?
In 314 it appears the voltage has increased by a factor of 10, and the current by a factor of 2. The frequency has also dropped quite a bit.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #322 on: March 05, 2013, 12:57:34 AM »
 Opening the floodgate
 
Three oscilloscope test-ready boards were given to a Venture Capitalist Group who already funded “Free Energy Research”.
 
In their words: “Your board is the simplest to demonstrate and test.  It will take our experts a few minutes to hook up and test.  If your board is not overunity, that will be the end of the game.  If it shows overunity, the game begins.”
 
The thing that impressed them most is the Average Output Power vs Average Input Power graph.  In particular, they were amazed at the negative input power.  The two stage JT with the very sharp negative Input power peaks was particularly striking.  With the three boards, they will be able to reproduce that curve on their own oscilloscopes.
*** Thank you to all those who suggested the loopback or two stage JT experiment.  I did not expect that it would show the negative Input Power so strikingly. ***
 
They seemed to appreciate the significance of negative input power without my detailed explanations.  Probably, they have already heard something similar from their existing ventures.  Average Negative Input Power implies more power is being feedback to the source than supplied by the source. How is that possible?  There must be additional energy coming in.  It is a clear confirmation of Lead-out energy.
 
The Floodgate is now open.  There is no more mystery to the lasersaber devices, the bedini generator, the steven mark TPU etc.  It is a matter of who will supply the first commercial product.  Any organization or individual with oscilloscopes can enter this race.  The many testers will confirm the results within the next few weeks.
 
Divine wine will pour out to benefit the World.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #323 on: March 06, 2013, 01:22:00 AM »
 Conversation with Mr. Zhou, the professional who supplied the oscilloscope test-ready boards.
 
Tseung; “Do you perform a full oscilloscope analysis on every board before you send it to me?”
 
Zhou: “No.   That will take too long.  If you want a full analysis report on every board, you have to pay extra.  It will more than triple your cost.”
 
Tseung: “What sort of tests do you perform?  You have a 90% success rate on the elusive overunity board without the capacitor.  I never have that success rate even though my JTs all light up the LEDs.”
 
Zhou: “I used the oscilloscope.  But I only observe the Waveforms.  The most important waveform is the Input Current (bottom curve of Input).  If it fluctuates around the zero axis with significant negative values, I know that the board will pass.”
 
I checked my other JT boards such as that in:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg26471#msg26471
Focus on Nov12a.xls.  That JT did not show overunity without the capacitor.  Even with the capacitor and constant DC power supply, it did not show overunity .  It showed overunity when the DC power supply was removed.  Not all JT will show overunity or in the same way…
 
Mr. Zhou is clever.  He focused on the most important element of his boards – Negative Input Power.

poynt99

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #324 on: March 06, 2013, 01:50:27 AM »
Lawrence,

How does Zhou "tune" the boards to pass?

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #325 on: March 06, 2013, 04:51:20 AM »
Lawrence,

How does Zhou "tune" the boards to pass?

At present, Mr. Zhou just passes the "failed boards" to his team/friends to play with and debug - they still light up the LEDs.  Some turned out to be bad toroid windings or just bad soldering/connections.  He found that to be cheaper and faster than spending his own time.  At the same time, he is training up his team.  I am passing the failed and the exceptional boards back to him so that he can re-examine them at his convenience.  At the beginning, he had to reject many boards.  Now, he seemed to have hit on a good board arrangement and using consistent machine wound toroids.  There are few rejections.  He is working with a factory to try to mass-produce consistent quality boards.
 
Please check Board 33 carefully.  You should get it within the next few days.  If you also find that the Average Output Power is greater than the Average Input Power on your scope, I shall ask Mr. Zhou to standardize on similar boards for this  product.  He is also working on the 2n3055 with much higher actual Average Output Power.  He is a qualified electronics engineer with proper license.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #326 on: March 06, 2013, 05:38:32 AM »
The waveform Mr. Zhou focused on.
 
It is the Input Waveform.  The bottom curve is the current.  If that has significant negative value (such as on Board 33), the board will show OU.  The Voltage is all positive.  Any negative current will mean negative power.  More negative current = more negative power.
 
This batch of boards from him all have such characteristics.  So do not worry if you cannot build an OU JT yourself.  Order from him and continue your research.....
 
@all testers:  Please look for and display this "Input Current" graph when you receive your boards.  It will give much information even before the full oscilloscope analysis...

TinselKoala

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #327 on: March 06, 2013, 06:22:53 AM »
It seems to me like you've got a little problem, Lawrence. After all, the boards that show this strong "negative input power" reading still manage to deplete their batteries or capacitors in an ordinary time period. Don't they.

@.99: Yes, that's right-- what is the explanation for this difference in the two graphs?

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #328 on: March 06, 2013, 09:04:02 AM »
 
It seems to me like you've got a little problem, Lawrence. After all, the boards that show this strong "negative input power" reading still manage to deplete their batteries or capacitors in an ordinary time period. Don't they.
 
 

@TK,

You are right.  You are one of the most respected researchers on this Forum.  I learned much from you – even the correct setting on the oscilloscope.

We are lucky this time to have a batch (approximately 100) of boards all showing strong “negative input power” and on further analysis; many also showed Average Output Power greater than Average Input Power.  We are excited but also realize that there is much more to do before a commercial product can be produced to benefit the World.

Instead of trying to do all the work ourselves, we decided to share this good fortune (or Divine Revelation) with the World.  Some giants such as Lasersaber, PhysicsProf, yourself etc. are already ahead of us in such research. 

I shall be delighted to send you one or two of these “negative input power” boards to you for testing, replication or improvement.  It will do the World much more good than us stockpiling them.  The strong negative input power (in a 2 stage set up) is already intellectually and experimentally challenging.  We need more top brains to crack the problem.

God Bless.

poynt99

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #329 on: March 06, 2013, 02:57:42 PM »
@.99: Yes, that's right-- what is the explanation for this difference in the two graphs?
The frequency difference is most likely a result of component and/or component arrangement changes.

I suspect that the lower frequency version with the higher output voltage is due to the inductor charging with more energy (it has a higher inductance).

Therefore, I would also expect the battery or capacitor to deplete that much quicker as well in that particular build compared to the other.