Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?  (Read 521313 times)

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #420 on: March 26, 2013, 11:46:56 PM »
Pinpointing the Problem:
 
Tester J: "I am not worried about the theory of Lead-out Energy.  I am worried about the loss of battery life.  There will be no commerical value if the expensive rechargeable batteries die suddenly or have much shorter life."
 
Tseung: "So long as the oscilloscope analysis results are correct and that we have confirmed cases showing increase in voltage of the battery while lighting the LEDs, there should be no problem.  It is a matter of finding the right battery, the right rest time, the right control mechanism, etc.  It is like the electric light bulb in its early stage development."
 
Tester J: "I have some success with a combination of conventional charging and pulse charging using 12V car batteries.  But such experiments take too long (months).  I am thinking along the lines of leasing rather than selling products.  At present the "lead-out energy" devices are unreliable even though they can bring-in much energy.  They are more useful in the hands of experts such as wind and solar farm companies."
 
Tseung: "I am sowing seeds.  Much more research is needed.  It is like the first demonstration of the 10 second light bulb.  Needing to change the light bulb every 10 seconds had no commerical value but improvements will bring the technology to commercial value."
 
Tester J: "When many testers, including top universities, show that your boards generate more Average Output Power than Supplied Average Input Power, much more resources will pour in.  Relying on Bedroom or Garage Labs to solve the Energy Crisis of the World is just too optimistic."
 
Tseung: "I hope so.  I believe this is the 'Divine Direction'.  The Divine Wine will be served by many, to many."

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #421 on: March 28, 2013, 01:58:08 AM »
The attached file is being sent out for review. 
Quote

I shall meet some influential people in the Industry, some academics and some politicians in the coming weeks.  One request was to provide some simple physics explanation to the observed oscilloscope analysis.  The explanation should be reasonably technical but not scary to the layman.  I am sending this out for your review and comments.
 
 

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #422 on: March 28, 2013, 08:41:27 AM »
The first 2n3055 OU board from Mr. Zhou.
 
Mr. Zhou built 3 Boards.  One turned out to be OU as seen from the oscilloscope.  He will use proper magnet wires and retry.  Not bad on the first attempt.

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #423 on: March 28, 2013, 10:08:54 AM »
Board 80 for the Hong Kong Government.  This will be one of the most important Boards.  This Board will be shown to the Hong Kong Government.  The top academics, business leaders, politicians, etc will make their decisions based on this Board.
 
Its final destiny is likely to be the Hong Kong Science Museum.
 
The Average Input Power  = -0.01675 watt
The Average Output Power = 0.030477 watt
The COP = -1.82.

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #424 on: March 28, 2013, 11:26:27 AM »
Second check on Board 80 for the Hong Kong GOvernment.  The Input Voltage was set low and a capacitor was added.  The Input was adjusted such that the LED was just brightly ON.
 
Average Input Power =  -0.00426 watt
Average Output Power = 0.010404 watt
COP = -2.44
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 07:06:13 PM by ltseung888 »

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #425 on: March 28, 2013, 07:05:02 PM »
Third Check on Board 80 for the Hong Kong Government.
Average Input Power  = -0.047051
Average Output Power = 1.43838
COP =-30.57
 
It appears that the COP is higher with higher Input Voltage.  Will try to increase the Load and see the result.

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3582
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #426 on: March 28, 2013, 10:52:47 PM »
Lawrence.

Are you still using AC coupling on your oscilloscope measurements?

If so, why?

Have you been using AC coupling all along?

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #427 on: March 28, 2013, 11:59:32 PM »
@.99:
All the scopeshots on this page appear to have been taken using DC coupling. The coupling symbol is right next to the CH1 (or CH2) vertical gain setting. It's the standard dotted-over-solid international symbol for "DC". When the channel coupling is set to AC, this is replaced by a little "sine wave" symbol. Hopefully this DC coupling setting was also used when the spreadsheeted data were taken.

But don't you find it odd that Lawrence compares input data taken at one frequency, with output data taken at an entirely different frequency, at least according to the last set of scopeshots?



Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #428 on: March 29, 2013, 12:33:03 AM »
Lawrence.

Are you still using AC coupling on your oscilloscope measurements?

If so, why?

Have you been using AC coupling all along?
@poynt99
 
No,  All results shown in this thread used DC coupling as pointed out by TK.
 
AC Coupling was used to show the fluctuation in Input Voltage even though the probes were connected across the battery.  The ripple on the battery voltage correspond closely to the voltage variation across the 1 ohm csr.  Please use DC Coupling in your measurements.

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #429 on: March 29, 2013, 01:01:15 AM »
@.99:
All the scopeshots on this page appear to have been taken using DC coupling. The coupling symbol is right next to the CH1 (or CH2) vertical gain setting. It's the standard dotted-over-solid international symbol for "DC". When the channel coupling is set to AC, this is replaced by a little "sine wave" symbol. Hopefully this DC coupling setting was also used when the spreadsheeted data were taken.

But don't you find it odd that Lawrence compares input data taken at one frequency, with output data taken at an entirely different frequency, at least according to the last set of scopeshots?

@TK,
 
Thank you for bringing up the frequency issue.  I just checked.  In the last case, the DC Power supply was set to 2V (close to the 2.3V 10F capacitor specification).  The frequency kept increasing even though the other readings remained more or less the same.  This particular happening did not occur at the lower Input Voltage setting.  The high limit for tests on other Boards were at 1.5V.
 
I shall redo the test at 1.5V and investigate this particular result later.  Thank you for pointing this out.
 
@poynt99,

Your 4 channel scope will be able to display Input Voltage, Input Current, Output Voltage, Output Current waveforms at the same time.  There will be no errors due to measurement at different frequencies.  Your data will add to our understanding of what is going on.  Thank you in advance.
 

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #430 on: March 29, 2013, 02:22:01 AM »
Board 80 test with Input Power set to 1.6V.
Average Input Power  = -0.13563
Average Output Power  = 0.208143
COP =-1.54
 
*** The Input and Output frequency remained steady at 3.04 KHz.
 

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #431 on: March 29, 2013, 05:54:55 AM »
Lawrence, can you please display a set of traces from your scope's probe calibrator output? I'd like to see what the probe response looks like, to a known square wave input, without any compensation adjustment.

Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3582
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #432 on: March 29, 2013, 02:27:48 PM »
@.99:
All the scopeshots on this page appear to have been taken using DC coupling. The coupling symbol is right next to the CH1 (or CH2) vertical gain setting. It's the standard dotted-over-solid international symbol for "DC". When the channel coupling is set to AC, this is replaced by a little "sine wave" symbol. Hopefully this DC coupling setting was also used when the spreadsheeted data were taken.

Right, thanks. I had not noticed where the symbol was.

Offline Leadoutenergy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #433 on: March 29, 2013, 03:57:33 PM »
Dear Lawrence and any other folk interested in the progress of lead out energy research.

I hope you are all having a lovely Easter!

I have received and tested 2 oscilloscope ready lead out energy research boards.

Some anecdotal results:

The LED for the first board remains brightly lit for 5 minutes after a 15 second connection to an AA battery.

The LED for the second board remains brightly lit for 3 minutes after a 15 second connection to an AA battery.

I will let you know the results from further testing and the oscilloscope analysis.

All the best,

Leadoutenergy, a server of divine wine!

Offline ltseung888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4363
Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #434 on: March 30, 2013, 02:03:21 AM »
Board 83 and Board 84 for Prof. Steven Jones (PhysicsProf).
 
The initial package appeared to be lost.  A new package will be sent.  This new package will have two oscilloscopet test ready boards (83 and 84).  Prof. Jones has the Atten Oscilloscope and is in the position of verifying the analysis directly.
 
I am usng the Zhou technique - just test using the oscilloscope on Input Waveform and see if the current has net negative value.
 
May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World together.