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Author Topic: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?  (Read 528244 times)

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #390 on: March 22, 2013, 08:14:52 PM »
蒋先生:真有你的!很历害!向你祝贺!王沈河

Tramslation:


Mr. Tseung: You do have something.  It is wonderful.  Congratulations! Wang Shen He

@TK
The AA Battery Charger can get two rechargeable AA batteries at 1.24V to recharge themselves back to 1.26V and light up the LED at full brightness.  The Oscilloscope pictures showed clearly that the net Input Current was negative.  That would yield Negative Input Power.  It was sensible if there were external energy lead-out or brought-in from the environment.  You can always order some "guaranteed OU" boards from Mr. Zhou and do the experiments yourself.  Yelling that someone made errors at a few thousand miles is not very convincing....  Look at the evidence or experimental results.  We already have confirmed results from Hong Kong and China.  Just wait for more from Europe or US.








Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #391 on: March 22, 2013, 08:31:28 PM »
Lawrence.... how can you read a positive VOLTAGE if the current is NEGATIVE? A positive voltage means that "conventional" current will flow from positive terminal to negative terminal. Call the pointy end of the battery A and the flat end B. A positive voltage reading means that A is at higher potential than B and that current (conventional) will flow from A to B. A NEGATIVE current reading means that the current is flowing in the other direction... which would require B to be MORE POSITIVE than A. And this is NOT what your scope shows. Your scope readings are not indicating what you think and claim that they are.
(ETA: More strictly the negative current in the input side current-viewing resistor would require that the potential at the circuit end of this resistor be lower than the potential at the negative pole of the battery, since the resistor is installed on the negative rail of the circuit. At least, it was the last time I saw a schematic, and that's how it is in my testbed. This is equivalent to making the negative pole of the battery, positive wrt the circuit.)

Your "AA battery charger" can slightly raise an indicated voltage on depleted batteries.... but it cannot improve the total runtime available from those batteries. Plot the _average voltage_ of both batteries (VB1+VB2)/2 versus time, samples every ten minutes, and include an instrumental reading of the light output of the LED. If the LED truly retains full brightness, and the average of the two batteries _does not decrease_ over a reasonable time interval-- say 24 hours -- then PERHAPS this would indicate some enhanced performance. But you have not shown any data from such a test.

Yelling seems to be necessary, since you apparently are deaf to reason.

ETA: I have clearly shown in videos what the simple addition of a couple of inches of wire can do to instrumental readings of a JT circuit, and I showed it using more sophisticated equipment, including both a current-viewing resistor and a non-contact current probe. You have so much stray and random wiring that you cannot rely on your instrumental readings of high-frequency signals to be correct at all.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #392 on: March 22, 2013, 11:58:42 PM »
Lawrence.... how can you read a positive VOLTAGE if the current is NEGATIVE? A positive voltage means that "conventional" current will flow from positive terminal to negative terminal.....
@TK,
What we are observing is not conventional.  The Input Current is fluctuating around the zero axis.  There is both positive and negative values as detected by the oscilloscope.  If you believe that the result is from wires etc, wait for results from other testers.  Unfortunately, you refuse to accept the "guaranteed OU" boards and do the test yourself.  If you ever change your mind, the offer of sending you a FREE board stands.
 
@testers,
 
Please use a rechargeable AA battery as Input on the Board.  Hook a voltmeter or the oscilloscope to check the change in voltage for a few days.  Report the results.  My results for one night (8 hours) appeared too good to be true!  I now use 2 boards to redo the experiment.

*** testers: You can use the rechargeable AA Battery to power something else first.  Get its voltage to drop down to around 1.26V.  Then use it as Input on the Board.  Make sure that the LED is ON brightly.  See what happens 8 hours later. 
 
The Almighty always provides unexpected, pleasant surprises to those who try.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #393 on: March 23, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
Understanding Negative Input Current?
 
I set Ch1 to AC coupling.  This essentially took away the steady DC voltage from the display.  See the resulting oscilloscope screen.  The circuit caused a "ripple" with components across the zero axis.  This ripple is responsible for the "unconventional" voltage or current flow across the current sensing 1 ohm resistor.  Can it be explained by the Back EMF?  More research is needed.
 
This area of research is extremely important as implies the existence of the "impossible" negative power in TK's terms...
 
The Lead-out Energy theory suggests that external energy comes in.  It is like an additional voltage source coming in periodically.  Such an additional voltage source can easily provide additional energy to the circuit.  Average Output Power greater than Average Input Power due to this additional energy (power) is NO longer a mystery.

Offline PiCéd

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #394 on: March 23, 2013, 07:25:46 PM »
In fact ltseung888, the + of the battery become - and the - of the battery become + but does not fall to 0, that's it ?

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #395 on: March 23, 2013, 08:11:49 PM »

 
@testers,
 
Please use a rechargeable AA battery as Input on the Board.  Hook a voltmeter or the oscilloscope to check the change in voltage for a few days.  Report the results.  My results for one night (8 hours) appeared too good to be true!  I now use 2 boards to redo the experiment.

*** testers: You can use the rechargeable AA Battery to power something else first.  Get its voltage to drop down to around 1.26V.  Then use it as Input on the Board.  Make sure that the LED is ON brightly.  See what happens 8 hours later. 
 
The Almighty always provides unexpected, pleasant surprises to those who try.

Can anyone get a tester board?  ;D

I see where this is going a bit. You might have something, but I have been in this routine before myself.  Hopefully you have something.

What I have gone through, a while back, was with a pulse motor(with recharge) and rechargeable batteries when they are in the range of voltage 1.2v to 1.25 which seems to be an area where the NIMH batteries tend to hang there for a good bit of time while being 'used'. When in this voltage range, the pulse motor was set up for very minimal voltage drop from the battery while running, around 50mv drop. During long runs in this voltage range, you will see for some time a voltage rise in the battery. I was very excited.

But I found that with more complete testing, that this had something to do with how the battery operates internally rather than the battery being charged by the motor, because eventually after the voltage rise while running, it did drop and continue to do so. Repeatedly.

It seems to be that 1.2-1.25v for rechargeable batts is like a plateau or very balanced area of discharge, something like that. Like if you have a fully charged NIMH, its voltage once removed from a fresh charge will drop significantly over time on its own as it is well above 1.25v. Its wasted if you dont use it immediately. But I would let them 'cool' and settle before any testing of supposed recharging devices.

So I see where you are going with the use of these batteries and bringing them down to this voltage range. Here is a better way of going about bringing the battery to the working voltage that you describe to avoid false readings....

Once you drain the battery to the required voltage level, you should then monitor the battery for a bit of time, say 8 hours. The battey will recover some voltage potential after sitting at rest over some time, without being put into the test circuit. This is something that all experimenters should know so that they dont get fooled by their circuits. So dont immediately put the battery in the circuit until it settles back up to a resting voltage. If your test circuit is only pulling a very very small amount from the battery, you will see the battery voltage recover while your circuit is in use, if the battery was just pulled from a fresh drain to get to the required voltage level of the battery. ;)

In fact, someone could easily do a quick voltage test of a battery after being drained some just before hand, then connect it to a 'very' efficient device and show the battery gaining voltage and make a claim that the circuit is causing the rise, when really the battery is just slowly revering from strong drain just before the testing.  :o ;)

So I suggest you keep these points in mind and on the bench in any further testing. ;)

Mags

Offline seanK

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Re: Are there any details on the coil being used ?
« Reply #396 on: March 23, 2013, 08:50:18 PM »
Referring to:
Attached is the circuit diagram for the rechargeable AA batteries + LED on March 21, 2013, Posts: 2381
Is there a specific value for resistor(s) "1" in the diagram ?
What coil configuration is recommended in this set up to start with ?

Sean


Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #397 on: March 23, 2013, 10:42:42 PM »
Can anyone get a tester board?  ;D

*** Order as many boards as you like from Mr. Zhou.  Email = zhouwei.1052@153.com (zhouwei.1052@153.com)

I see where this is going a bit. You might have something, but I have been in this routine before myself.  Hopefully you have something.....

Mags

It looks like some Physics is needed here.  All the observed experimental behavior can be explained by the existence of Lead-out Energy.  We can treat this as a pulsing source.  We shall simplify the explanation with the following diagram.
 
Once we accept the existence of the "hidden pulsing source", the experimental observations make sense.  Energy does come from the environment.  The research can then focus on:
(1) How much energy can be lead-out?
(2) What are the various mechanisms to lead-out such energy?
(3) Can the mechanisms be expanded and improved to yield commercial products?
 
There is no need to speculate on experimental errors or battery behavior etc. any more.
 
The secret of the Divine Wine is here (do not need to wait for patent disclosure in Oct. 2013)

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #398 on: March 24, 2013, 01:13:45 AM »
@testers
 
Hope that you have a chance to use slightly rundown rechargeable AA batteries as Input Power Supply to the Board.  I have tried 4 boards.  The attached are the results.  One thing to watch out for is: you can take out the battery to "rest" before taking readings.  Rest time not important.
 
Now with four different boards all showing Forever Lighted Lamp plus Battery Recharging characteristics, I have done the sowing.  It is up to you and others interested to water, fertilize,weed etc.  Grow the Fruits to benefit the World.  Amen.
 

Offline poynt99

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #399 on: March 24, 2013, 01:18:50 AM »
Understanding Negative Input Current?
 
I set Ch1 to AC coupling.
Why?

Quote
This essentially took away the steady DC voltage from the display.
Yes, would that be the correct thing to do to make a proper measurement?

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #400 on: March 24, 2013, 01:38:42 AM »
@testers
 
Hope that you have a chance to use slightly rundown rechargeable AA batteries as Input Power Supply to the Board.  I have tried 4 boards.  The attached are the results.  One thing to watch out for is: you can take out the battery to "rest" before taking readings.  Rest time not important.
 
Now with four different boards all showing Forever Lighted Lamp plus Battery Recharging characteristics, I have done the sowing.  It is up to you and other interested to water, fertilize,weed etc.  Grow the Fruits to benefit the World.  Amen.

Oh. these are high charge voltages your pics are showing.  Which board do we get as there are different ones shown in the pics.

Thanks

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #401 on: March 24, 2013, 01:52:52 AM »
*** Order as many boards as you like from Mr. Zhou.  Email = zhouwei.1052@153.com (zhouwei.1052@153.com)

And 'as many as I like' are free?


Mags

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #402 on: March 24, 2013, 02:14:07 AM »
*** Order as many boards as you like from Mr. Zhou.  Email = zhouwei.1052@153.com (zhouwei.1052@153.com)

And 'as many as I like' are free?


Mags

See slide 3 on reply 398:  Price depend on quantity and shipping method.  Email him.
zhouwei.1052@163.com
 
*** The standard board is similar to Board 70.  You may have custom tailored versions.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #403 on: March 24, 2013, 02:19:23 AM »
Why?
Yes, would that be the correct thing to do to make a proper measurement?

TK will be the best person to answer that.  He was my teacher in this aspect.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #404 on: March 24, 2013, 03:45:19 PM »

TK will be the best person to answer that.  He was my teacher in this aspect.

With reference to your setting AC coupling .... I'm with .99 here. Why did you do that, and is it proper to make your power measurements using ANY AC-coupled signal?

Why do you not perform and publish proper rundown testing, as I and others have suggested? The average voltage of your two batteries in your system will decline over a reasonable time period and your "forever light" will go out. I am also still waiting for your evidence that you can light _thousands_ of LEDs using your JT, as you apparently have claimed.

Meanwhile.... it seems that you have attracted the attention and support of Rosemary Ainslie.

Note how her continuing disregard for accuracy, facts and simple Truth is displayed. She continues in her paranoid delusion that I am someone she calls Brian (or Bryan) Little.... without a shred of evidence or support. Who is this Bryan Little, anyway? Does anyone know? I'd like to correspond with him about the libels Ainslie has committed towards him.
And this is her standard pattern: she makes her wild claims, her idiotic and wrong assertions, without support or evidence, and then later when she's incontrovertibly proven wrong, as has happened _many times_... she just continues apace.

If it weren't so awfully sad... it would be funny.      Actually.... Ainslie IS pretty funny. Pitiful, rather than sad, and hilarious at the same time.