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Author Topic: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?  (Read 600405 times)

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #225 on: February 20, 2013, 01:03:49 PM »
Received 20 Oscilloscope test-ready boards from Shenzhen this morning.  Selected one as package 38 for overunity.com.

A pleasant surprise - the board already showed Average Output Power > Average Input Power without the capacitor.

This is the first of the triple tests.  The top curve on the waveform files represents Voltage.  The bottom curve represents Current.  Thus the Instantaneous Voltage and Current are displayed.  Their product gives the Instantaneous Power.  With the Atten Oscilloscope, I can save the CSV file and do the analysis (to be described on next post)

The Output Waveform and Vpp and Vrms values all exceeded the corresponding Input values.  That is a good indication of possible OU.  The CSV was saved and analyzed.  In this first test, the COP was -1.71.  The negative sign came from Input implying it is a feedback circuit.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #226 on: February 20, 2013, 09:38:29 PM »
Some information is already available at the ltseung888 bench at overunityresearch.com.  For example:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1678.msg28886#msg28886
 
However, some people have expressed difficulty to accessing the information there.  The important ones will be reproduced in this thread.
 

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #227 on: February 20, 2013, 09:48:16 PM »
Reproduced from OUR forum
I  am now preparing the "Test boards" for the various forums.

There will be a small, standalone demo  board (battery and battery holder not included) and an oscilloscope-test -ready board.

The demo board is meant to stimulate interest.  Connect the battery for 10 seconds and the LED will be ON for over 20 minutes.  The first 2 minutes will shine with full brightness.  Thus connect for 10 seconds and then disconnect for 2 minutes and repeat.  The LED will shine with constant brightness.  Will such a set up save electricity?

If you want the capacitor to fully discharge first, just connect the red and white wires together for 30 seconds.  The LED will be OFF within 2 seconds and total discharge as displayed on the oscilloscope will occur well before the 30 seconds.  To ensure a fully charged condition to impress your audience, connect the battery for 1 minute for continued full brightness at the beginning.

I use such demo boards at casual meetings to stimulate interest.  It is a good conversation opener.  It is also an inexpensive gift that is well appreciated.

There will be assigned numbers to ensure quality results.
Number 33 - overunityresearch.com
Number 38 - overunity.com
Number 39 - energetic Forum

These demo boards are shown below and will be triple-tested before shipment.  They will be part of the package.

More on the oscilloscope-test-ready board later.

Pouring out the Divine Wine.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #228 on: February 20, 2013, 09:58:29 PM »
Reproduced from reply 5 at OUR
 
The lowest DC Power to light up the demo boards was 500mV approximately.  This result was obtained by using DC Power Supply.

Thus the testers with these demo boards may use AA batteries from fully charged to 1.0V (normally considered as dead).  This is in accordance with the common knowledge of a standard Joule Thief.

However, a DC Power Supply is strongly recommended as it can give a constant voltage for a very long time.  The voltage can also be stepped up and down for tuning purposes (or to catch the sweet spot as some like to put it.)

The guarantee on the Demo Board is:
(1) The LED can be lighted via a fully charged AA battery.
(2) The LED will remain ON with same apparent brightness for at least 2 minutes.  A 20 second recharge will bring it back to full brightness.
(3) The full lighting time including the blinking will be at least 20 minutes.

I can provide such guarantee on the boards because:
(1) The LED can be lighted even with a 1.0V AA battery.
(2) The same apparent brightness on the boards to be shipped out last over 3 minutes.  A 10 second recharge will bring them back to full brightness.
(3) The full lighting time for the 3 boards lasted more than 3 hours in the tests.

If the shipped boards failed to meet the guarantee for any reason (shipping damage?), I can always ship out a replacement.  Thus the 3 Forums will always have a Demo board with the above description for demonstration.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #229 on: February 20, 2013, 10:02:04 PM »
From the thread on what is considered OU in OUR
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1675.msg28865#msg28865
 
@PhysicsProf,

I like your definition.  I shall be sending a triple-tested FLEET board to poynt99 in this Forum and to many others (a total of 100 is planned).  Hopefully, you have aleady received one in the mail.  You should be able to pick it up at your old address.

The triple tested FLEET boards will show that the Average Output Power is greater than the Average Input Power as measured on a dual Atten Oscilloscope (2 channe) system.  Two different models of Atten Oscilloscopes were used.  The purpose of sending the FLEET boards out is to have different organizations use different makes of oscilloscopes to confirm the experimental results.  They are encouraged to replicate and improve.

The Lead-out Energy suggested in this case is the electron motion energy.  As already accepted, electrons orbit around the nucleus.  Such electrons have kinetic energy.  In addition, a circular motion electron will show magnetic properties (a dipole).  There are trillions of electrons associated with any object.  In this case, we focus on the electrical circuit and in particular, the toroid with pulsing electrical and magnetic fields.  At the right matching of the oscillating LCR and the pulsing transistor circuits, the electrons will be aligned and some of their motion energy can be extracted (lead-out or brought-in).

It is suggested (and to be proven shortly with the FLEET boards) that the energy used to align these electrons can be less than the energy that can be extracted.  This is a logical explanation of getting more Average Output Energy than Average Input Energy.  Should such a FLEET board be considered as OU now?

Once the mainstream scientific community accepts the above, the floodgate will be open.  Many different devices using the electron motion energy will emerge as legitimate.  Some are already posted on the Internet.

When you have a chance, please test the oscilloscope-test-ready board already sent to you thoroughly.   Hopefully, many of the other 99 organizations will do the same.  Then Leading-out electron motion energy will be accepted (from OU to standard scientific understanding).

May the Almighty Guide us to benefit the World.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #230 on: February 20, 2013, 10:06:35 PM »
The configuration if you have two oscilloscopes is attached.

Note that we need to cater for the common ground for both Oscilloscope A and Oscilloscope B.  Thus DSO 1 Ch1 -ve, Ch2 -ve and DSO 2 Ch1 -ve and Ch2 -ve need to be at the same point.

The actual Input is not across the battery.  It includes the drop across the 1 ohm resistor.  We can add that back in with the oscilloscope analysis.  In addition, the current measurement for Input (A3 and A4) should be inverted.

With the two scopes, both Input and Output can be captured at the same time (within the finger pushing timeframe (http://www.overunityresearch.com/Smileys/Alive/wink.gif)).

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #231 on: February 20, 2013, 10:13:50 PM »
Please compare the two scope configuration diagram on the previous post with the markings on the board 38 to be shipped.
If you have only one 2 channel DSO, do the Input measurement first and then the Output measurement.  The test to choose will be steady condition that can still demonstrate OU.  These cases will be described in detail in the coming posts.

hartiberlin

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #232 on: February 20, 2013, 10:15:21 PM »
Okay, many thanks Lawrence.
Looking forward to test your board.

Regards, Stefan.

e2matrix

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #233 on: February 21, 2013, 02:00:14 AM »
I have only looked briefly at the latest info here but I'd like to bring up a test I did some time back and am replicating this moment to check my memory of it.  It involves a 1 farad capacitor and a 5 mm bright LED.   That's it - no other parts.   I charge the cap up to about 4 volts by briefly touching it several times for just a couple seconds each across a small 9 volt battery.  I then hook up the LED.  It shines bright for a few minutes and slowly starts to dim down.  I'm retesting now to see how long it stays lit but in a past test some years ago I recall it was still lit after 5 or 6 hours. 
In the Joule thief above a 10 Farad cap is being used versus my 1 Farad cap.  I'm not saying there is nothing of interest with the JT but my setup has had the LED running steadily for hours.   Also my 1 Farad capacitor is very close to the size of the wound 1" toroid used in many JT's.   Just some food for thought. 

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #234 on: February 21, 2013, 02:03:54 AM »
Oscilloscope Analysis results for Board 39 for Energetic Forum. 
This board also showed Average Output Power > Average Input Power without the capacitor.  These boards were hand-built by the same professional.  His comments: "I checked all boards before giving them to you.  You do not see the failed ones."
The COP from my test is -1.93.  The negative sign came from Input, implying a feedback circuit.  To save space on this forum, I do not show the xls file but show the comparison Output Power vs Input Power graph instead.  Those interested in the actual xls file can pm me.

e2matrix

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #235 on: February 21, 2013, 02:33:51 AM »
Have you thought about a way to loop the output to the input to make it self run continously?  It would seem with COP of 1.93 it would be possible once started to keep it running continuously.  A DC to DC converter is not hard to find with 85% or better efficiency.   It sounds like with one of those you would still have enough to keep it running. 

e2matrix

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #236 on: February 21, 2013, 03:09:33 AM »
Quote
  I have only looked briefly at the latest info here but I'd like to bring up a test I did some time back and am replicating this moment to check my memory of it.  It involves a 1 farad capacitor and a 5 mm bright LED.   That's it - no other parts.   I charge the cap up to about 4 volts by briefly touching it several times for just a couple seconds each across a small 9 volt battery.  I then hook up the LED.  It shines bright for a few minutes and slowly starts to dim down.  I'm retesting now to see how long it stays lit but in a past test some years ago I recall it was still lit after 5 or 6 hours. 
In the Joule thief above a 10 Farad cap is being used versus my 1 Farad cap.  I'm not saying there is nothing of interest with the JT but my setup has had the LED running steadily for hours.   Also my 1 Farad capacitor is very close to the size of the wound 1" toroid used in many JT's.   Just some food for thought.
Still glowing after more than an hour although it is fairly dim....

bryanwizard

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #237 on: February 21, 2013, 09:16:35 AM »
any update in your overunity... I am a power electronics design engineer.

In Emerson Network Power, we only achieved 97% the highest two stage design.

I just can't imagine how does it works and claimed to be more than 100% COP.

I build the circuit using an LED as an output. With 1.5V battery as an input.
It work but efficiency is very less. The resonance will not affect or create more COP.

where is the free energy coming from?

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #238 on: February 21, 2013, 09:17:25 AM »
Have you thought about a way to loop the output to the input to make it self run continously?  It would seem with COP of 1.93 it would be possible once started to keep it running continuously.  A DC to DC converter is not hard to find with 85% or better efficiency.   It sounds like with one of those you would still have enough to keep it running.
That will come later.  The present task is to confirm OU beyond a shadow of doubt in the case of the existing tuned boards to be shipped to the three Forums.

ltseung888

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Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #239 on: February 21, 2013, 09:26:41 AM »
any update in your overunity... I am a power electronics design engineer.

In Emerson Network Power, we only achieved 97% the highest two stage design.

I just can't imagine how does it works and claimed to be more than 100% COP.

I build the circuit using an LED as an output. With 1.5V battery as an input.
It work but efficiency is very less. The resonance will not affect or create more COP. (conventional thinking)

where is the free energy coming from?
Please wait for the 3 forums to receive and test the tuned oscilloscope-test-ready boards.  Let them verify and confirm OU before you go the next step.  Without tuning, few Joule Thief Circuits show OU characteristics....  If you are willing to post your test equipment, procedure and results openly on this forum, I shall consider sending a tuned oscilloscope-test-ready board to you for thorough testing in the next batch.  The waiting time for this batch is 6 weeks.