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Author Topic: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept  (Read 12252 times)

Offline leviterande

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A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« on: September 03, 2012, 05:18:01 PM »
Hi everyone.

I have an idea and wonder why no body even thought about it, and I would love to know why it wouldnt work:

We all know  that a certain air-core coil at a given current will produce a certain magnetic field
take that same coil and  put an iron inside it and you will amplify the magnetic field 100 to  1000s of times... FOR THE SAME  INPUT CURRENT!!!

NOW.. here is  my thoughts on an overunity transformer:
A Simple transformer where the primary is a iron core coil and the secondary is an air core coil with the same  number  of turns.
Now..  since the  primary is giving 100s times more magnetic strength  at the same input, shouldnt it induce this same magnetic field and current into the secondary air core?  if thats the case, the secondary  output should also be in 100s of times more current.. right?

 Eddy currents and hysteresis is greatly reduced by lamination and  control so what we got left is the  opposing field of the secondary...   

I really would love  to know why this concept will not work? 

Thanx

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline FatBird

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 06:12:04 PM »
It won't work because the magnetic flux will follow the best magnetic path, which is the Iron Core.
 
Therefore, the air core winding won't get anything.
 
.

Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 07:32:46 PM »
Thank you for the reply

So you mean if I move the iron core coil up and down THROUGH an air coil, there wont be any current induced int eh air core?  Im sorry but I find that little hard to believe ha?

Regards
Leviterande

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 07:32:46 PM »
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Offline FatBird

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 08:37:09 PM »
Since you are so sure it will work, go ahead & build it.
 
Then take some pictures of it working & post them here.
Submit the O/U numbers & proofs to WIN the OVERUNITY MONEY PRIZE.
 
.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 08:50:51 PM »
No no, I  didnt mean by any means that it will work,  I just searched the  net and didnt find any  overunity transformer, article, info  that uses an asymmetrical system i.e. an iron core on one side and an air core on the  other..  So I just dont know where to search or read .   The MEG, Flynn, radus concepts obviously didnt work. I am by no means  saying this will work, on the contrary  99,9% it wont work because of "common sense" or how in the world didnt any body do it  till now!!!
But once again here is where its extremely confusing and I cant find anywhere any information that can help on the matter..  All the induction theory is based on  iron core to iron core induction or a magnet to an coil.    the thing is (i may way wrong here)  is while the Flynn concept(which doesnt seem to   yield overunity) is at 3.47x output, an iron core  is  up to 10,000x the output  vs an air core one. There is where  I see the possibility...

So while  the people got blind by using "magnets as means of power" they forgot that we can  creat much  much powerful electromagnets  with very very little power by  using a ferromagnetic material!

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 08:50:51 PM »
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Offline cristache

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »
If both coils are face to face, one with iron core and one without iron core, the one with no iron core will have a lower flux density and flux swing due to AC voltage on the primary coil.
This means less voltage induced on the "secondary".
Even, let's assume for a moment will do what you expect, the problem will start as soon as you get load/current in the secondary it will reflect in the primary in the same amount so no overunity here.

Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 09:15:23 PM »
"Even, let's assume for a moment will do what you expect, the problem will start as soon as you get load/current in the secondary it will reflect in the primary in the same amount so no overunity here."

this is the part that is interesting and that I have read about many times in overunity forums,. Im not sure if I understand it though but let me try: what you said is that as fast as I put load  on the secondary, the primary´s current draw will increase immediately , right?

If so.. why exactly?

Levi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 09:15:23 PM »
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Offline cristache

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 09:30:18 PM »
Let's say you apply a sinus AC on the primary. On the sin increasing slope you have an increasing flux in the primary iron core which increases the flux in the air core - a portion of the primary flux since air has lower magnetic permeability (1 compared with iron around 200). So if you have a dB swing at 0.5T in the iron core, you'll have 0.0025T swing in the air core. The induced voltage is E = -NA dB/dt. The minus in front of the equation tells you the voltage showing on the secondary is such a way that it will create a magnetic flux in the coil (secondary), when a load is applied, such a way that it fights you applied flux. That's what we call Lenz law. It is discovered experimentally, we don't have an explanation why it is that way.
So long story short the current created in the secondary when a load is connected due to induced voltage it will fight the cause (call it action and reaction if you will).


Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 09:51:03 PM »
Thanx for your reply
So this is the reason and the "delicate part" where the  Flynn, Bearden MEG overunity concept fails ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 09:51:03 PM »
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Offline cristache

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 10:02:38 PM »
Not sure about Flynn parallel path. That looks like it has some potential.
As for Bearden I tried many times to simulate using FEMM and the amount of energy you're putting in the control coil to divert the PM flux in the core section where your pickup coils are seems to be equal with what you get back from the pickup coil. I admit I didn't tested experimentally myself. But if MEG would have potential, we'll have it all of us in our homes by now...

You can test your concept with a PM oscillating along its axes and have a pickup coil - a big one since it's air core. Then short the coil and you'll see the magnet movement will slow down as the magnetic fields produced by the induced current is fighting back.

In transformers is a little different, the flux reduction on the primary due to secondary flux fighting back, will reduce the primary inductance which will increase the current in the primary. Current increased in primary will cause bigger flux swing on primary and secondary which will compensate for the secondary load. That's how the transformer will self-adjust to the load on the secondary up to a limit - saturation current - where no matter how big the current is, there is no increase in magnetic flux, so that current/power/energy is just lost in vane.

Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 10:28:47 PM »
I dont understand why people are seeing that the "MEG" has some potential while not  seeing that a traditional iron core electromagnet is also having  some phenomenal  potential as well (if you want to see it that way).  Let me explain, The whole concept of flynn/Radus MEG is that you turn off the magnetpower with a power seemingly  less than  that of the magnet itself. in the case of FLynn the  total force is 3700grams   from which is 1100 grams  that you pay for coming from an electromagnet. so you are using 1/3 of the power  to  gate the magnetic flux which seems to be a key to overunity. I thought it to be  the final key to overunity until  a extremely simple thought hit me: an  iron electromagnet is in fact much much more effective..  how? well  for a single simple iron core el.magnet you are also only putting a 1/200th of the  power!!! to power and control the electromagnet. In the flynn MEG you  use 1100grams out of 3800 which is roughly 1/3 of the power..  you see where I am going?

 Im not sure if I am absolutely right or  if my   meaning didnt go through, but your explanation to why  my original iron-core-aircore theory wouldnt work SHOULD precisely  apply as well to  the flynn device.

Thanx

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 10:28:47 PM »
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Offline cristache

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 10:37:08 PM »
Problem is: can you keep that power level constant and less than you draw from the system?
I would say PM have more potential since the power density they have and you don't have to put your own energy into them.
But then again is difficult to avoid Lenz law and the fact the magnetic field is conservative - loop integral of the work (force by distance) is null.
The moment we figure out how the make the field non-conservative within a certain configuration we get the overunity, or more correctly put we get the energy from the magnet.

Offline leviterande

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 10:55:28 PM »
What exactly are you referring to by "PM"?

Offline cristache

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2012, 11:08:17 PM »
permanent magnet

Offline ionizer

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Re: A truly interesting transformer overunity concept
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2012, 11:21:25 PM »
You need coupling between an external source.
Not overunity but it can be free energy in that you don't have to pay for it.
But don't think some hooptie dooptie core will magically start to deliver energy i't won't happen you need an energy source power has to come from somwhere.

 

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