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Author Topic: Modified Heron's Fountain  (Read 61761 times)

Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2012, 11:32:50 PM »
  @All,
 at besslerwheel dot com, when alan aka ab hammer personally attackec mem he was not supported in his attacks except for wannabe's. he was actually told he should not be making such posts.
 in this forum, his support is based on his unblemishec reputation as a knowledgeable engineer.

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2012, 11:32:50 PM »

Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 12:00:18 AM »
  alan,
 thought of something. when I took courses at Boeing for CATIA, I actually helped one teacher. u c, half way tbrough class, I had finished the course work for that class. after that, I helped other students while I made blueprints for fun. actually, my attendance in class was required and doing extra work gave me something to do.

Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 02:51:15 AM »
hope you all know but sometimes it is better to fail.

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 02:51:15 AM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2012, 03:42:43 PM »
  @All,
  This is a demonstration of how Heron's mechanical principles can be used differently to violate the pressure head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF6lmb1oLEo&feature=youtu.be
 
  The pressure head;   The height of each column of fluid is proportional to the pressure of the fluid
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_head
  the same pressure is applied to both static heads, they should be the same height.
 
edited to add; at all, have sent a link of the video to hartiberlin and have also asked him to have bill and tinselkoala to stop flaming me.
 After all, I am demonstrating something that bill says isn't worth considering.

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 04:26:22 PM »
Your video is a lie, because your water heights inside....the two different cylinders.... are not equal. You are not showing anything of significance, except your own nervousness and prevarication. Show the whole thing in transparent containers.... then we can see what you are hiding: the fact that your starting water levels are not the same.

Let's see you turn what you have "shown" into some kind of real demonstration of something that WORKS.


And anybody can see, Jimbo, that it is you who are doing the flaming. Post after post, you insult me and/or Bill and/or Alan, whoever he is, and nobody is even responding to you. And then you post your little mendacious video, while whining that people won't leave you alone so you can work. You are really full of yourself.

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 04:26:22 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2012, 05:35:16 PM »
Your video is a lie, because your water heights inside....the two different cylinders.... are not equal. You are not showing anything of significance, except your own nervousness and prevarication. Show the whole thing in transparent containers.... then we can see what you are hiding: the fact that your starting water levels are not the same.

Let's see you turn what you have "shown" into some kind of real demonstration of something that WORKS.


And anybody can see, Jimbo, that it is you who are doing the flaming. Post after post, you insult me and/or Bill and/or Alan, whoever he is, and nobody is even responding to you. And then you post your little mendacious video, while whining that people won't leave you alone so you can work. You are really full of yourself.

  tk,
 I have asked Stefan to talk to you about your constant need to flame me. Once again, you have not discussed engineering but only your contempt for me.
 
>>  Let's see you turn what you have "shown" into some kind of real demonstration of something that WORKS.  <<

 It does work, one coulmn of water is higher than the other just as I said they would. And now, more flaming from you.
 What have you shown ? Nothing that can work. It seems you do not want anyone working with me yet you want me working for you, that's rich (funny).
 AB Hammer can show his work any time he wishes to prove me wrong but he refuses to show his work. That is up to him.
And bill as moderator should not be helping you to flame me.

>> Show the whole thing in transparent containers.... then we can see what you are hiding: the fact that your starting water levels are not the same.<<

 You are claiming I am a fraud, show some work that proves me wrong, this is on you as you want attention or is it control ?

 @All, since neither tube is connected to the other, I can not control their water levels unless I change tubes. If tinselkoala had noticed, there was nothing to prevent the water in the small diameter tube from empyting into the container. Compressed air kept it elevated.
 What tinselkoala has missed since he does not understand engineering is that both tubes have the same amount of water in them. And this is why they have two different heights, the compressed air in the container is acting on both of them with the same pressure or force.
 If I had used an even larger diameter tube, then there would have been a greater difference in the height's of the two static heads. It would be at this point that perpetuallity would need to start being considered. This is because the smaller diameter tube could be cut shorter to allow it to over flow allowing an imbalance in how the compressed air acts on both static heads.
 Not sure on this one people but do believe I understand the math, PiR^2H = volume. True, it's not calculus but do i really need to go that deep into math to calcluate the volume of a static head ? I hope not.

Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2012, 06:01:13 PM »
  @TK,
 Do you know what I like about this ? it is my invention and according to what I have previously posted from the USPTO, I have one year to file a patent application. And what you and Bill think doesn't matter because it IS NOT your invention. So why don't you leave me alone. This forum is meant for discussing idea's, not for you to pursue me telling me what I have to do.
 
edited to add; with something like this, I plan on giving the patent rights to charity. that 's something I've posted many times.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 08:41:50 PM by johnny874 »

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2012, 06:01:13 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2012, 09:07:01 PM »
Your demonstration does not show what you claim and think it does. It shows nothing of significance except that you do not understand your topic.

If you think you can use what you have shown IN ANY WAY that is useful.... especially the simple way to overunity that you have described.... what is keeping you from DOING IT? My constant distractions? Your illness? The Army? Bill? Your hands are shaking you are so angry or nervous or something. Just do it, Jimbo.

But you cannot.

And when you stop insulting me, mentioning my initials in post after post..... then maybe I'll stop RESPONDING to your attacks on me, and let you play with your useless misconceptions. By the way, you lie when you suggest that I have ever asked or expected YOU to work with or for me, ever at all.

Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2012, 09:53:51 PM »
tk,
go bother somebody elre.
I didn't bother you and bill with what you two worked. yet just like ab hammer used to do me, now you are doing.
 all anyone has to do is look the four minute mark of your video to know you don't understand static heads so why don't quit whining to me because you ARE jealous.
 this could be why people leave this forum when they have a decent idea. you are zo full of yourself, you will not let somebody esle say what they think. I dont think everyone shares yours and bills opinions as you two claim.
 and just as ab hammer has always said, Stefan backs up tbis forum on his computer so he will know what has been deleted.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2012, 09:53:51 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 10:40:27 PM »
@all,
 tk deserves to be insultec. after he built his Heron's fountain, he had nothing to talk about.
 anyone can look in rhe thread pirate bill started and see that I offered suggestions.
 then when they have nothing else to do, tk comes after me and bill defends bim.
 like bill said in the my invention thread is he doesn't like it when people who have idea's leave the forum, now you guys know why they do.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 03:50:38 AM »
Johnny:

So, you reported me to Stefan?  Did you also tell him about your threatening to take away my license to do business? (Which I don't have, but, no matter, reality is what it is)  Did you also tell him about all of the made up stuff you are saying about me?  Like my deleting your posts?  Quite an accusation to make...a very serious one I might add.  Also, to make that to Stefan who KNOWS I am not a Moderator here, is laughable.  Stefan KNOWS I can't delete pm's, emails, or posts here but you persist in accusing me of doing so.  I take serious offense to that and am considering my legal options at this point.

I have never said ANYTHING about anything you have built....mainly because you have not built anything and....also, because I do not care what you do or do not do so long as you are not insulting me, or others here on the forum.  You can not quote anything I have said about your builds....ever.  Read my keyboard....I DO NOT CARE.

Stefan is on holiday in Europe at this time and I will not bother him with this crap until he returns.  My advice JIM (Not Johnny)is to grow up.  And, if you can't do that at least....shut up and quit insulting me, and other forum members here.  You are working yourself into a legal action very fast, which you can then add to the reasons why you can't build anything.

I told you I am not screwing around any more.  You threatened my business and now accuse me of deleting personal information.  That IS a crime.  Look it up.

Leave me ALONE!

Bill

PS  I qualified as a Master Machinist back in the 80's and when I compliment TK's work, it is because it is good, not to insult you.  With what you posted, it is obvious you know nothing about precision work or machine tools in general.  The most accurate work on the planet is done by hand and by eye.  Otherwise, you could never use a machine to build a more accurate machine than the one you started with.  Understand?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 03:50:38 AM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2012, 05:10:06 PM »
  deleted post. Will wait for Stefan to consider the misconduct I have been subjected to.

Offline CuriousChris

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 11:32:59 AM »
I would recommend reading up on pascals law and hydraulics. None of the ideas presented here will work.

For example the submerged container will only push liquid up to the height of the water and not 1 mm more. having air in the container does not make any difference.

Hydraulic pressure will raise the air pressure in the container to match the surrounding pressure in the water. so you can dispense with the air. And if you don't need to have the air then you can dispense with the container and just have the pipes.

From that you should see why it wont work.

The trick to understanding hydraulics is understanding pressure. In a liquid the pressure is even in all directions. What this means is you only need to take into account the pressure exerted by the column of water directly above the point of interest.

In the  submerged container idea the only pressure that matters is the pressure directly above the inlet pipe and the pressure above the outlet pipe. They become exactly equal when the water in the outlet pipe rises to exactly the same height as the water column above the inlet pipe. e.g. the surface of the water.

Read up on Pascal's Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_law

After studying pascals law you should understand that the only way to get water to spurt out the outlet pipe is to raise the height of water above the inlet pipe. This can be done by creating a wave. as the wave passes over the inlet pipe a small amount of water would be ejected from the outlet pipe but only to the height of the wave. This would only work if the container was sealed and solid.

study hydraulics, its a fascinating subject! Once you understand how a hydraulic jack works and why it works everything else starts to make sense.


Offline CuriousChris

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2012, 12:41:03 PM »
With respect to Johnnies trick video

Nicely done. :)

This is what I think has happened. Clearly there is two separate areas within the main container each has a separate volume of water in it.

The container is then sealed. Either air is blown into the container to increase the pressure or a trick is used. The container is placed in a fridge unsealed until it cools right down. then the container is sealed. as the container warms up the air in it expands creating pressure. ;)

So why are the water levels in the two pipes different?

Simple! The air pressure inside the container is constant, but the size of the pipes is different this means the RATIO of the internal air pressure to the external air pressure is different therefore the fluid height is different in each container and pipe.

The two areas inside are to allow each reservoir of water to maintain a different height. if it wasn't separate, then the ratio of external to internal pressure would be the same. I.e. the diameter of both pipes are simply added together.

Again I implore an investigation into pascals law and hydraulics in general.


Offline johnny874

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Re: Modified Heron's Fountain
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2012, 07:03:14 PM »
With respect to Johnnies trick video

Nicely done. :)

This is what I think has happened. Clearly there is two separate areas within the main container each has a separate volume of water in it.

The container is then sealed. Either air is blown into the container to increase the pressure or a trick is used. The container is placed in a fridge unsealed until it cools right down. then the container is sealed. as the container warms up the air in it expands creating pressure. ;)

So why are the water levels in the two pipes different?

Simple! The air pressure inside the container is constant, but the size of the pipes is different this means the RATIO of the internal air pressure to the external air pressure is different therefore the fluid height is different in each container and pipe.

The two areas inside are to allow each reservoir of water to maintain a different height. if it wasn't separate, then the ratio of external to internal pressure would be the same. I.e. the diameter of both pipes are simply added together.

Again I implore an investigation into pascals law and hydraulics in general.

  Chris,
 Heron's work goes against some modern conceptions of hydraulics. He has 2 different pressure heads reacting differently to the same stimuli or air pressure.
 
                                                                                                                            Jim

 

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