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Author Topic: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity  (Read 142881 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #135 on: February 04, 2014, 10:28:27 AM »
Would we have a kind of phase wave for a magnetic field?
In a ferri/ferromagnetic core - yes.  See here.
In a paramagnetic material or vacuum - I doubt it.

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Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #136 on: February 04, 2014, 01:14:30 PM »
Thanks for the tips.
Your very welcomed, dear tim :)

 
Quote

I'll see what i can find for inside plugs.
 

OK.

 
Quote
  After talking about windchimes I'm wondering about having movable plugs - to test the output along the tube - maybe find the 'node' points..?
 

Good to try :)


 
Quote
Ah, i see... :/
 

Yeah, but the kind of amplification system looks have been the one JNL based his schematic until the V6 wich looks the best amplifier he made.

I note for you that his amplifiers are not the best system for advanced experiments up to date.

The best system up to January 2013, where COP of 35 has been very rigorously registred, WOULD be with what Colas called a "CLASS E or F, 90-95 % HF AMPLIFIER", like the RM KL-500/24, you will find here (sorry, I have only the page in French but you should find a equivalent in French):

http://www.cbplus.com/cat/product982/product_info.html

Careful: I was not saying Colas used this kind of HF amplifier, he used JNL's V6. But he has very hard times with having much transistors 4 € /unit burnt and a very poor efficiency for the amplifier like 35% if I remember well. Then looks it has "strange behaviours" like very unlinear evolution with frequency.

Could be, if you are skill enough in electronic you may built your own knowing the characteristics of the RM-KL ;) but if you have the means, the advantage is nobody could say the material would not be appropriate to the frequencies or has any error.


 
Quote
Talking about the sonic / standing waves idea again... I wonder what the speed of sound in copper is - and whether it is related? Perhaps all these things have to synchronise for full effect...?

:)
Tim
I think you could have something here, like having a common harmonic of all but close enough of the electronic vibrations.

According to Richard it would be the frequency of the bound electrons.

As I can know, superconductivity at law temperatures are about phonons. ;)

Speed of sound in copper: ~ 3 570 m.s^-1.

Offline verpies

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #137 on: February 04, 2014, 08:09:49 PM »
Speed of sound in copper: ~ 3 570 m.s^-1.
Not quite - see here and here and here.

Longitudinal: 4760m/s - 5010m/s
  Transverse: 2270m/s - 2325m/s
 Extensional: 3570m/s - 3810m/s

For most acoustics, the Longitudinal speed is relevant.

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #137 on: February 04, 2014, 08:09:49 PM »
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Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #138 on: February 04, 2014, 10:10:15 PM »
Not quite - see here and here and here.

Longitudinal: 4760m/s - 5010m/s
  Transverse: 2270m/s - 2325m/s
 Extensional: 3570m/s - 3810m/s

For most acoustics, the Longitudinal speed is relevant.
Fuck-up to  you, verpies! Your are so nuts that you even don' t understand what means "~" and not able to realise that we are indeed in the case mainly of longitudinal waves in the case of bars.

GO TO TROLL A OTHER THREAD!

I had already noticed in the discussion I had created on the possible basics of overunity that you were not even able to read my posts before to critic, here you have already done the same an other post: you borrow thoughts, you imagine in your your mind thoughts which are only there and then you try covertly attac these same conclusions which are only in your mind, like if it were other's. You're a silly man and I will no more respond or react to any of your post where ever you post them.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:58:27 AM by Khwartz »

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #139 on: February 04, 2014, 10:57:00 PM »
Fuck-up to  you, verpies! Your are so nuts that you even don' t understand what means "~" and not able to relise that we are indeed in the case mainly of longitudinal waves in the case of bars.

GO TO TROLL A OTHER THREAD!

I had already noticed in the discussion I had created on the possible basics of overunity that you were not even able to read my posts before to critic, here you have already done the same an other post: you borrow thoughts, you imagine in your your mind thoughts which are only there and then you try covertly attac these same conclusions which are only in your mind, like if it were other's. You're a silly man and I will no more respond or react to any of your post where ever you post them.
Then why did you list the extension sound velocity instead of the longitudinal?

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #139 on: February 04, 2014, 10:57:00 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #140 on: February 04, 2014, 11:13:35 PM »
Fuck-up to  you, verpies! Your are so nuts that you even don' t understand what "~" means 
I understand the approximation sign "~" but a 33% error qualifies more as a discrepancy than an approximation.
I strive for more precision than 1/3 and that's why I pointed out this discrepancy.  Also, I quoted 3 references to justify it.

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #141 on: February 04, 2014, 11:49:17 PM »
I've had quite a few problems measuring resonant frequencies... So, the last set of results are only useful as a relative guide.
 - Capacitance in scope probes. (Solution - Input signal probe left off)
 - Capacitance in signal generator. (Solution- an extra earth wire to the coil)
 - Too much inductance in exciter coil(?) (5 turns replaced with 2)
 

OK.

For questions about probes and specific use of the instruments, BlueDragon, Colas07 and zgreudz in cos.com will better help you than me ;)

 
Quote
I've measured resonances for the 2 copper cores at a range of frequencies from 3.5MHz up to 25MHz - depending on the method chosen. So the results are somewhat inconclusive - and suggest the circuit as a whole is resonating, rather than the bars alone at some specific freq.
 

Lol,  it is very conclusive indeed, dear tim, cause it has been found by Biganos that making a common point between the bar and the coil, setting them in series, boots the outpower  :P

Colas who told me that he has used this way in his very successful advanced replication but he tunes separatly the coil and the two halves pipe to maximise the power transfer between the power supply in input and between the two halves and the load, for the output. NOT to make or use it AS an antenna but just because the tuning LIKE in antenna tuning, helps to transfer all the power and so increases the whole potential power of the device.

When not accurately tuned, input and output will "reflect" a part of the power they try to transfert which get lost while making standing waves.

Note that we are not here, until now, looking for standing waves but all the contrary, trying to get and SWR near equal to zero so a "impedance match" betwen the "source" (the amplifier, in the case of the imput) and the "receiver" (the coil, still in case of the input) will be satisfied; same principle applies for the output between the cores and the load.

Note too that then, when all is tuned, while looking for Richard's frequency (what ever value it takes in pratical), the device will indeed produce power which will act LIKE a reflective power regards to the input.

It is this power, which is called "negative power".It comes when we increase the power of the load and the consumption weakens very dramatically at the input (giving COP around 35, like 7 W at output and 0.2 W at input - phases, cos phi, been checked, output load been compare with DC resistance when powered with same voltage and hot filament temperature -these are true fully checked REAL POWER consumptions), even becoming null (giving an INFINITE COP) to go COMPLETELY NEGATIVE (THE AMPLIFIER NO MORE DELIVERING POWER BUT RECEIVING IT!).

So, for me your observation looks very far to be "unconclusive", dear tim; what do you think? ;)
 

 
Quote
My current best estimate for the Vialle resonant freq of the bars is 7.9MHz - which is considerably higher than the predicted 6.5MHz...

The experimental margin error is +/- 2 MHz. Could comes from the fact as I noticed it in a previous post, that the calculation are based on the lengh or the core while the wiring of the load circuit could act like leakings for the waves on the bar, like a near closed toroid bar through the filament of the load an varing in impedance with the temperature of this same filament while we increase the output power. But it is just an idea, I can very mistake  ;D

But I do insist the fact that Richard is very humble man who knows his theory needs to be brought futher with better models of calculation or corrections in the very basics of his theory.

BUT, many replications, like those of JNL, have verified the theoretical Richard's frequency, proved as giving overunity AS PREDICTED. In a first sight, looks to me only since, we can see that we have a shift of +/- 2 MHz, could be indeed since we create a common point between the coil and the bar; to be checked...

 
Quote

I think I'll have to try it with more power - using the amp - and see how it behaves then. That'll have to wait for the heatsink glue.
Indeed, you are very true, tim, this device needs to go above a threshold of amps in the output, so first in the input, to run o.u.

Even more: it is the creation of a huge short-circuit current in the shunt that will induce the negative power in the coil and reduce the input power consumption, nulling it and then feeding the input. So yes, amps looks to be very important. :)

Nice to see you again having your heatsink glue! :) :)

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #141 on: February 04, 2014, 11:49:17 PM »
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Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #142 on: February 04, 2014, 11:51:43 PM »
I understand the approximation sign "~" but a 33% error qualifies more as a discrepancy than an approximation.
I strive for more precision than 1/3 and that's why I pointed out this discrepancy.  Also, I quoted 3 references to justify it.
I said I will no more comment your posts. Troll an other thread!

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #143 on: February 05, 2014, 12:02:35 AM »
Khwartz,
  I read the comments about 'standard resonance' vs. Vialle resonance on , and i think I'm only seeing the standard version ATM. The amp should help...
Indeed, it has been seen already that the phenomenon of overunity appears only when amps are enough.

BTW, did you test it with the shunt? Because if you have not shunt across the load and the cores, you won't get any overunity (but could be you understood it too :) ).

Quote
I'm re-reading some Keely stuff. This one's interesting - and it could be related...
 "Sound and Gravity" - http://www.keelynet.com/davidson/sound1.htm
Why not! Could give some good parallels :)

Best regards,
K.

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #143 on: February 05, 2014, 12:02:35 AM »
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Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #144 on: February 05, 2014, 02:24:15 AM »
This was the first results from Colas07:

COP 2.6 ACHIEVED.

http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=941&st=120

Translation in order of the sentences and labels

Simple asset of the calculations:

Generator 10 Vpp - 4.213 MHz.

DC power supply 24 V.

Jean-Louis Naudin's V6 amplifier, consuming 1.35 A.

Input connection.

Output of the "U".

Canal 1: measuring voltage on the light bulb.

Canal 2: measuring current with zgreudz's current probe.

The wires between the light bulb and the measurements are as short as possible.

The scope is not grounded.


------------


Frequency: 4.213 MHz.

Chanel 1 RMS: 6.52 V.

Chanel 2 RMS: 753 mV.

Wattmeter placed between the amplifier and the coil of the "U" with two coax wires. Set on 5 W caliber. Not enough power to calibrate the SWR (ROS [French for "SWR"]).

Direct power = 2.7 W

Reflective power = 0.7 W

Useful power in the coil of the "U" = 2 W (2.7 - 0.7 = 2 W).


Calculation of the power on the light bulb:

P = U * I * Cos(phase)

P = 6.52 * (753 mV / 1000) * Cos()

["750 mV" is an "abusive", but known, way to say "750 mA" while these amps are measured by the drop of voltage on a "zgreudz's probe" of 1 Ohm - composed of 18 resistors of 18 Ohms each in parallel. So that we have directly the reading of the milliamps while reading the millivolts on the oscilloscope. ]

Power at the connections of the light bulb = 4.88 W


******** COP = P.out / P.in = 4.88 / 2 = 2.441 ********


------------


Frequency: 4.075 MHz.

Chanel 1 RMS: 6.75 V.

Chanel 2 RMS: 777 mV.


Direct power = 2.5 W

Reflective power = 0.5 W

Useful power in the coil of the "U" = 2 W (2.6 - 0.5 = 2 W).


Calculation of the power on the light bulb:

P = U * I * Cos(phase)

P = 6.75 * (777 mV / 1000) * Cos()

Power at the connections of the light bulb = 5.22 W


******** COP = P.out / P.in = 5.22 / 2 = 2.612 ********

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #145 on: February 05, 2014, 03:53:40 AM »
Then why did you list the extension sound velocity instead of the longitudinal?
Sorry,  in my speed to answer to verpies I have mixed the both: in solid, as I can know, longitudes waves not applies, they are extentional and transversal.

The value I have taken is only a Wiki one and I do not claim to be specialist of, that why I have used "~" the value, so the intelligent enough persons who need more accurate value could make their own search, while I had not the time for nor the present necessity to.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_of_sound_of_the_elements_(data_page)


It is not that verpies didn't give accurate nor useful data, it is just he is  on this thread to try to discredit my efforts to make Richard Vialle work known and try to distabilise me while I think he did not appreciate I left him alone on the other thread I had created where he continuously criticised me without even taking time to read my posts well and their interety.

Verpies then came here and started trying to spread false data on Richard work and the replications of the Autogenerator, and try to spread the idea that we don't know what we do in France and that we don't know anything in physics, while the skills in physics in Condpirovnisciences.com goes up to Master and Doctorate.

So verpies here only fakes to help, imo, he just tries to destabilise the creator of the thread, while only caring about anything which would be wrong (or taken as) but without a obvious common sense because at the very base his intentions is only to discuss his previous (missing) opponent from an other thread.

Been years I follow threads in different community, it came easy to differenciate someone who brings a correction for The General Interest, from one who just tries to put an other at wrong to discredit him/her.

Sorry if you didn't bother, but like this I will have fully clarified my position.

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #145 on: February 05, 2014, 03:53:40 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #146 on: February 05, 2014, 10:58:00 AM »
It is not that Verpies didn't give accurate nor useful data, it is just he is on this thread to try to discredit my efforts to make Richard Vialle work known and try to destabilise me
Khwartz cannot know that.  It's pure speculation on his part.
See for yourself - my first message in this thread is here.
Note that I had made only technical questions and statements in this thread, without any personal remarks.

As a matter of principle, opposition and criticism of technical ideas is not wrong scientifically and is in accordance with the scientific nature of this forum,
...but wait, I have not even criticized Khwartz or his ideas in this thread - I just pointed out a numerical inaccuracy and asked him some apparently inconvenient questions, to which he did not reply.

If I wanted to get rid of Khwartz, I could have him banned from this forum for misconduct with one PM to Stefan (see forum's rules).

...but I am not going to go that tattletale route.  Instead I am going to point out that the equation:
PAVERAGE = URMS * IRMS * cos(Φ)

is valid only for pure sine waves.

If the continuous Out/In power ratio is really >2 then it should be possible to loop that power and achieve a self-runner within a month.

If that does not happen soon, then the methodology of power measurements will have to be reavaluated, e.g. because:
1) Waveform shapes
2) Crest factors
3) any DC components
4) Quantization errors of ADCs
5) The maximum frequency rating of the RMS or U*I multiplier.
6) The relationship between the sampling rate and the maximum frequency content of the measured signal.
7) Resistance and inductance of current sensing resistors or the frequency response of magnetic current probes,
8) The position of the voltage probe in relation to the current sensing element (before/after).
9) Stray capacitances
10) EMI
...etc.

Offline wistiti

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #147 on: February 05, 2014, 03:10:51 PM »
@Khwartz
Does it exist a more effecient version than the "U" shape one?
Do you know what happen with JLN? His site have no update since a while... :(.  ?

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #148 on: February 05, 2014, 11:28:31 PM »
@ tim

Correction:

Quote
Quote
[Quote from: tim123 on February 02, 2014, 10:55:13 AM
Khwartz,
  I read the comments about 'standard resonance' vs. Vialle resonance on , and i think I'm only seeing the standard version ATM. The amp should help...
Indeed, it has been seen already that the phenomenon of overunity appears only when amps are enough.

BTW, did you test it with the shunt? Because if you have not shunt across the load and the cores, you won't get any overunity (but could be you understood it too :) ).
Dear tim, in fact the output tuning circuit of the more recent experiments than initial Ricard's experiments no more use the shunt wire but only the coil and capa tunning.

I don't know if it is a so good thing because it won't allow so much amps in short circuit but Colas's beginning 2013 results were indeed without pure shunt wire.

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Richard VIALLE's new theory about negative mass and overunity
« Reply #149 on: February 05, 2014, 11:41:30 PM »
Correction:

Quote
Quote
My current best estimate for the Vialle resonant freq of the bars is 7.9MHz - which is considerably higher than the predicted 6.5MHz...

The experimental margin error is +/- 2 MHz. Could comes from the fact as I noticed it in a previous post, that the calculation are based on the lengh or the core while the wiring of the load circuit could act like leakings for the waves on the bar, like a near closed toroid bar through the filament of the load an varing in impedance with the temperature of this same filament while we increase the output power. But it is just an idea, I can very mistake  ;D

But I do insist the fact that Richard is very humble man who knows his theory needs to be brought futher with better models of calculation or corrections in the very basics of his theory.

BUT, many replications, like those of JNL, have verified the theoretical Richard's frequency, proved as giving overunity AS PREDICTED. In a first sight, looks to me only since, we can see that we have a shift of +/- 2 MHz, could be indeed since we create a common point between the coil and the bar; to be checked...
"Could comes from the fact as I noticed it in a previous post, that the calculation are based on the lengh or the core" ->. Could comes from the fact as I noticed it in a previous post, that the calculation are based on the  length of the core

 

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