Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Plug Heater

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 508970
  • *Total Topics: 15176
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 7
  • *Guests: 11
  • *Total: 18

Author Topic: Eds design  (Read 71245 times)

Offline forest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3852
Re: Eds design
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2010, 08:07:22 PM »
what is the gain from having third electrode ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2010, 08:07:22 PM »

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2010, 10:58:51 PM »
The third electrode allows a circuit connected to that electrode to be switched on by turning on the primary arc.  The value of this is that it allows the capacitor to be discharged when it is only partly charged.

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2010, 11:53:02 PM »
The third electrode allows a circuit connected to that electrode to be switched on by turning on the primary arc.  The value of this is that it allows the capacitor to be discharged when it is only partly charged.
If only two electrodes are used the capacitor would have to reach a certain charge level before it can discharge.  And the discharge would be automatic, rather than controlled.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2010, 11:53:02 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #93 on: September 10, 2010, 03:53:55 AM »
I've had a hard time getting any repulsion out of my Puff Spark.  I've been working with this Plasmoid effect for almost 9 years and no matter what I tried, it just wouldn't repel.  Of course, I've shown more than one video on Energetic Forum in which extra coils attached to my circuit DID repel each other.  But with just the inductor and the spark, nothing.  For one thing the spark discharge is too drawn out.  With explosive repulsion the energy has to be released quickly.  I also tried compressing the Plasmoid but a smaller diameter tube just resulted in a smaller volume effect, with no pressure.  To top it off, the inductor itself always ATTRACTS nearby metal.  And it even has an electrostatic effect on a dowel rod, causing it to snap into axial alignment with the coil.

The Zetex video of Gray's demonstration shows something being launched from a large diameter plastic tube, with a large volume white type of energy following it.  Gray maintains that this effect can be used to fire a bullet as well as impart lift off velocity to the Space Shuttle.  The Israeli government was willing to pay $9 million for his secret.

Well, after all this time I've finally got it.  Here's my video showing an open breach apparatus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBBjLCMchI

This only has one coil, which is the inductor.  And there's no connection to the metal cone.

Now the REAL work begins.

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2010, 01:24:31 AM »
The device in the video I just posted will do exactly the same thing if the power supply is turned off before discharge.  This is not an ignition coil boosted plasma.  The video and the picture both show a Plasmoid, something which has surface tension.  This substance is produced by bidirectional potentials in the originating arc, which is the same effect which occurs in Ed Gray's motor.  The Zetex video shows that his motor was filled with white light - from the stretched Plasmoid between the coils - while it was running.  This white light is caused by Hot Carrier Emission.

Most of my demonstrated tests have involved only one capacitor.  This circuit produces two potentials traveling through the arc in opposite directions, due to the inductor's CEMF.  (In the patents, Gray says they're dealing with two effects, one of which is the CEMF.)  The two pictures at the bottom clearly show that there are two sparks wrapped around each other, proving that there are two potentials with one capacitor's discharge.  This is NOT a normal plasma spark discharge, as I pointed out here, shortly before being banned from Energetic Forum for "plagiarizing" someone else's work:

http://www.energeticforum.com/97586-post1971.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2010, 01:24:31 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2010, 10:11:33 PM »
I've come up with a circuit variation which allows me to power a motor with brushes using HV.  I've been testing the circuit with a treadmill motor which has coils on the armature, but uses magnets only for the stator field.  However, this circuit will also run a weed eater motor which is normally AC but also has brushes and stator coils.  And the circuit will work with a single MW oven capacitor, although the torque and speed both increase with extra caps.

When the bottom side of the Microwave Oven Transformer is negative the capacitor charges, with its bottom side also negative.  When the MOT reverses polarity the voltage is blocked by the diode, but still travels through the motor to discharge the cap, at twice the voltage.  The capacitor provides the primary power for the motor since the speed is much lower with just the voltage from the transformer.  The battery alone will also drive the motor at a slow speed, although the motor is rated for up to 100 VDC.  With the battery and the cap, the speed is higher than with the cap alone.  Reversing the battery results in almost no RPM when the full circuit is employed.

At a couple thousand Volts from the transformer and cap, the battery's voltage is a small increase.  So the added speed must be due to the battery's Amps.  The diode blocks the battery with reverse polarity, so these Amps must be going through the capacitor.  This is further evidenced since the reversed battery will not run the motor when the transformer is off.  There seems to be something about pulsing the cap which allows it to pass DC current.

I also tried an experiment with a 120 V. electric drill motor by plugging it into a 208 VAC socket.  The higher voltage made the drill spin much faster, but the brushes really shot some fire.  This doesn't happen when the higher voltage is supplied by capacitive discharge.  So I think there's two things involved with this circuit which relate to Ed Gray's system, the DC displacement current through the cap and the non inductive static from the cap's discharge.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7326/batterycircuit.gif

Offline FatBird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Eds design
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2010, 01:51:40 AM »
What is the value of the Caps?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2010, 01:51:40 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2010, 06:59:33 PM »
What is the value of the Caps?
When I'm using a single cap it's .65uF.  This is what I've done my comparison tests with - the battery alone, the cap alone, and the battery and cap.  For now I'm just using a count with a uniform cadence.  With the battery the motor stops at the count of three, after it's disconnected.  With the cap, it stops at the count of five.  And with both the battery and the cap, it spins till the count of seven.

My other cap is .8uF, and I've used up to three of these in parallel with the first one, giving 3uF.  I haven't tried both caps and battery with the larger value since I'm getting such a high RPM if would be difficult to tell the difference (with the battery added).  Also, the transformer starts smoking and I have to unplug it at, or near top speed.  The flywheel motor then spins to a stop at the count of 17.

I've also got a clamp meter and plan to do some better tests.

The motor's rated for 100 VDC and I'd probably get better performance at that DC voltage, but adding the HV may provide a step towards enhanced efficiency.

Offline penno64

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
Re: Eds design
« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2010, 10:05:59 PM »
Hi Jerry,

I am trying to follow your circuit.

Are you also providing 110/240 AC into the mot ?

Or is it 12v and the motor and caps and diode hooked into the pri/sec ?

Regards, Penno

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2010, 10:05:59 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2010, 05:51:23 PM »
Hi Jerry,

I am trying to follow your circuit.

Are you also providing 110/240 AC into the mot ?

Or is it 12v and the motor and caps and diode hooked into the pri/sec ?

Regards, Penno
Yes, I am providing AC to the MOT from the mains.  The full circuit with the car battery and the caps won't work without the HV from the transformer, regardless of battery polarity.

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2010, 05:25:17 PM »
I've been playing with one of my Conversion Tubes again and this time around I've been able to charge the grids.  I consider this a milestone since the grids aren't connected to a load.  I'm uploading some pictures so everyone can see the reason for my optimism.

The first picture shows the Radiant flash produced by the combination of my Plasmoid effect (Puff Spark) along with the power supply's arc.  Both the NST and the capacitor, with its 100 miliHenry series inductor, are dumping straight through the Tube's spark gap.  I'm using one end of the 10 kV NST with the center tap, for 5 kV, and charging the cap to around 4 kV before the shot.  Not much detail is visible due to the camera burn.   

The next picture, on the left, shows the opaque Radiant Energy flowing across the end of the Tube and shining through some holes in the outer grid.   

And the last picture shows grid to grid discharges, caused by the different potential on each grid.  Here again, light from the lower spark is shining through two holes in the outer grid.  The two grids are connected by a half turn inductance at the far end, by the teflon spacer.  This connects the inside surface of one grid with the inside surface of the other, but there is no power take off (PTO) at this point.  (So far.)  As it turns out, the grids arc together before the potential has time to travel the length of the grids and equalize through the connecting inductive loop.  It's quite possible that too much charge was put on the grids, but I can produce my key effect with some very small caps, if I need to.   

I think I'm getting really close.  And I've figured out a timing method to connect the grids to the load a split second after they're charged, without using any electronic circuits. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Eds design
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2010, 05:25:17 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline XS-NRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
Re: Eds design
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2010, 10:19:53 PM »
so where is the resistive elememt?

Offline Jerry Volland

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: Eds design
« Reply #102 on: December 24, 2010, 12:36:07 AM »
so where is the resistive elememt?

I'm not using a resistor yet, to limit the power going to the Tube.  That'll be part of the final tweeking, unless I determine the carbon can throw sparks like the wood does.

Offline Shanti

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: Eds design
« Reply #103 on: May 24, 2014, 09:01:08 PM »
Didn't post here since a long time...

But I stumbled from another project on an idea, which could easily explain the Gray-story, and where the OU is coming from.

First a very short summary as I got the story:

The two friends Marvin Cole and Edwin Gray wanted to make new efficient motors, which were working on the impulse-principle. Up 'til now, nothing OU like.
Cole was the engineer and Gray basically responsible for the marketing.

The principle of impulse-motors is, that you only put very short, but very strong current pulses on the electromagnets, when the coils are in the best position. Like that you get a much higher torque, and can still get to higher rpms than with conventional motors.
The big disadvantage is, that you need much higher voltages and currents, which makes the switching of these currents very complex and costly. Additionally you have to insulate everything quite strongly, due to the high voltages which again is costly and also makes the cooling less efficient.
 
Anway, they made one prototype after the other, which probably were more and more efficient. Then, as it seems, after th 5th prototype a OU effect showed up.
 
Then they made a new series of prototype motors to increase this effect and the power of the motors (EMA series). The second such prototype motor of this "OU-series" with 10hp power was then tested externally by the Crosby institute.
 
In the meantime they were at the 4th prototype (EMA4), which delivered around 30hp.
The actual inventor, engineer and constructor of this motor (Marvin Cole) suddenly didn't wan't to continue anymore and went away.

Much has been speculated, what happened there. Often with a paranoid undertone (especially in OU-communities)
 
But what if Cole suddenly discovered, how the motors really worked and that they werent' really OU?
In the meantime they had many obligations due to made contracts (for they needed money for developing the motors). It could well be, that therefore Cole wanted to get out of it as fast as possible, not to get drawn into a financial bottomless pit or maybe even jail due to possible sueings


That was BTW then exactly what happened to Gray. An investor sued Gray, as he didn't deliver. Due to that all material was confiscated (also the motors). Finally Gray was found guilty for fraud and the motors were shredded. The only leftover piece from Marvin Cole was now gone.
Already at that time as also later it showed that Gray used quite shady methods to get money from investors, which were often not quite legal.

But back to the story, when Cole disappeared, and the motor EMA4 was still there.

Gray was no engineer, so he hired a new enginbeer Mr Hackenberger. There still was a "functional" motor, and as it seems he assigned Hackenberger with the task to find out, how it worked and also to increase its power.
 
Hackenberger now tried to discover, how the motor produced the OU, but he didn't succeed.
The only thing they did know, is that the motor did need oxygen to deliver the OU effect. This has been clearly stated in the technical report from them.
 But they did not know why it needed the oxygen. And how this was related to the OU production.

Air has been constantly pumped through the motor and the commutators for cooling.
Certainly one big problem was the wear on the commuators, which were rather rotating spark gaps.
I personally guess, that Hackenberger once tried to decrease the wear on the commutators by using an inert gas, and not air for cooling, and that this resulted in the OU-effect disappearing.
So that then they got aware, that oxygen was needed.

So they knew oxygen was needed for the OU, but not why. Hack developed several theories, but as it seems they never did find out the principle.
So the story more and more got away from the OU side, although Gray always tried  with the help of the Crosby report to get investors.
But he left nothing else than scorched earth (or cheated investors), as they had no idea, why there was an OU in the late Cole motors.
 

But back to the actual point.

It is known, that for the first prototypes (not OU) he used thyratrons/ignitrons for switching. This is actually quite straight forward, and probably many other engineers also would have taken them at that time, as Power FETs weren't yet available.
But these thyratrons/ignitrons are very expensive and they do not like to be used in a way with many "shots" per second, as they are needed in such an impulse motor.
Therefore they got defective quite fast and had to be replaced (this is a known fact and was a big financial problem for them!)
 
My personal guess is, that Cole therefore switched to a direct commutator (rotating spark gap), for they simply couldn't afford anymore the dramatic thyratron/ignitron wasting.
But then I guess the commutators showed a strong wear.
It could well be, that from that point on, some kind of OU started to appear.

It is more or less known, that the so called "Gray-Tube" (which Bedini saw) was the last "device" that Cole made, before he left. As it seems, the HV-event takes here place in an external device and the commutators in the motor only trigger these events.
This would make sense as in improvement.
In its basic principle IMHO a kind of Trigatron, so a spark triggered spark gap. You only do not have an additional HV to trigger, but you trigger directly the main HV, by a smaller spark which you limit by a resistor, so that not all energy will flow through there. One could also use a capacitor for that, but this would complicate a bit the circuit.

But how can there be any OU developing inside that device?

Here comes my idea, which I got during thinking about another project:

In a spark gap discharge a very big heat is generated, especially at such high currents as in such an impulse motor. This big heat evaporates part of the electrodes and if there's oxygen, it burns the evaporated metal. This combustion heat obviously additionally heats the gap. And this heat obviously also results in an expansion of the gas in the gap (similar to any common combustion engine).

But if you now hold this discharge plasma in the gap non neutral, e.g. by holding both electrodes positive, and if there's a third electrode perpendicular to the spark gap, with a potential so that there's an electric field which pushes positive ions away, you can convert the additional heat to electric energy.

The positive ions get repelled by the perpendicular grid. But the heat expansion (explosion)  pushes them into the direction of this grid.
You basically create a small explosion which pushes the positive ions outside.

That this can work, the outer perpendicular electrode has to have many holes, as this expansion would otherwise be aerodynamically hindered. OTOH due to the gridding of the electrode you need several electrodes. But probably two would already be sufficient, for as soon as the pos ions are in between the first and the second grid they are in a zero field (faraday cup) and therefore get attracted by the second grid (influence attraction). But more grids surely wouldn't be too bad, as then you can make the grids very loose so that the expansion doesn't get hindered a lot.

This would be quite the setup of the Gray Tubes as reported by Bedini. He still saw the original Tubes as made by Cole (after he left):

http://www.keelynet.com/evgray/edgray1.jpg

There surely may be some details in this image, which could be missing or wrong, but the basic setup looked like that. And I strongly believe that this sketch is much closer to the real device than the later patent. Especially that here, the grids are also over the bigger diameter carbon part. This is IMHO important, as otherwise you cannot really use it as a Trigatron.


Again back to the principle:

It's basically the same as with e.g. a Van de Graaff generator. Only that there the charges get transported by a rubber belt against the field to the top capacitor, whereas in this example the charges would be catapulted to the top by an explosion.

So in the same image, you would have in the tube, where usually the belt is running a charged ion cloud at the bottom which gets catapulted to the top against the electric field by an explosion at the bottom.
Also in this example it would be obvious that you would need some holes at the top of the tube, otherwise the cloud would be hindered at its expansion.

So the additional energy would actually come from burning the electrodes. You would also see this optically. E.g. if you burn copper, the spark will become green-blue. That's the typical color for burning copper and is used widely to color fireworks.

It is also known, that the motors never did run for a long time before something went defective. Maybe this was exactly the reason. The wear, due to burning of the copper, was so extreme, that the motor couldn't run for extended periods.
Also the Crosby report tests, which verified the OU only run for 21 mins.

At least it would easily explain, why oxygen was needed for the OU effect to take place.

In the same context:
Actually burning metal for energy generation is not that far off.
E.g. the PSI made a study for the swiss national energy department about using aluminium for home heating instead of oil, or gas. As it seems, this would work very good. The energy density is quite good and in its raw form it does not burn and is not hazardous and can easily be transported.
The resulting aluminium-oxide can easily be collected and then later again be converted to aluminium with the help of electric energy.

Also the NASA made tests with a water-aluminium-suspension as a rocket fuel. There one did put tiny aluminium particles inside the water. The big advantage is, that this water suspension is much easier to handle than pure aluminium (as it is liquid).
So one could even make a demo for a "water"-motor, where one shows that one just burns water, which you can also drink as a proof.
If the spark is strong enough, such a suspension could also be used as a direct combustion engine gaz replacement in an Otto-motor.

BTW: Schauberger also used aluminium in his Klimator (room heating unit). There as a fuel he used a disc of aluminium together with pressed wood chips and some other stuff (like Selen).
But Schauberger burnt this stuff "cold" in his machine. This he did by ionizing the air, so that the oxygen got so reactive, that it oxidized the fuel even at low temperatures. I personally guess the wood chips were necessary so that the aluminium wasn't there as a whole bloc, as this way it probably would have been harder to burn.
The wood chips would slowly burn away and so piece by piece reveal some aluminium.

From this POV also the non neutral positive plasma in a gray-tube could consist in a big part of O+ ions. These are extremely aggressive and could drastically increase the "burning" of the electrodes and by that the additional energy release, similar like in the Schauberger Klimator.
 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 12:09:03 AM by Shanti »

 

OneLink