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Author Topic: My Invention  (Read 73021 times)

Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2012, 09:21:33 PM »
James,
 
I built a 2SO a few years ago and have been experimenting with it on and off ever since.  I have progressed to an overbalanced wheel that turns continuously in one direction, and have been testing various feedback mechanisms for that design.  Based on your drawings I think I can modify my original model to add in the lifting cord.  It is a basic wooden design with no bearings but it should suffice.  To get some quick feedback, I will physically attach the weight to the cord, because what you are really seeking (i think) is whether the balance weight will not only reset the main lever, but also raise the weight to it's original release height.  I will see what I can do this weekend (Aug 18 and 19) and will report back.
 
Rick

  Rick, Thanks.
 Hopefully it won't take to much of a modification. I might make a basic set up to show a simple catch and release mechanism.
 There is a way the 2SO might work based on what I've realized. The movements of the pendulums might need to be controlled
to realize the difference in force they both would have relative to the center of the cross beam.
 Any more, I think just showing where something does work to shut up the critics might be what would make it worth while.
 
 @TinselfKoala,
 Wanted to go to school for electronics but something always happened to where I ended up with machining and mill wrighting.
it does take something to build. but like you probably know from your own work that it can be a headache trying to figure out how you want to set something up. And I did watch a few of the videos you have posted.  ;)
 
                                                                                                                         Jim

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2012, 09:21:33 PM »

Offline zoelra

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2012, 09:28:25 PM »
You have me thinking about the old design again.  In my designs I purposely placed the pendulum pivot point farther away from the lever pivot point than the balance weight (2:1 to be exact).  I did this to increase the range of motion of the pendulum pivot point so it would be easier to view and measure.  Capturing the pendulum bob in line with the main lever could be accomplished in many ways.  The first thing I will do is physically attach it to the lever (I have done this already) and show that the counter weight will easily lift the pendulum bob and reset the lever.  The additional feature you are suggesting (raising the weight back to it's original height) is the what is really in question.  I haven't done any math yet, but I would think that if the bob is close to the lever pivot point, there is a good chance, with the proper pulley ratio's, that the counter weight will be able to lift the bob back to it's original drop height.  Another thing to consider is releasing the weight near the 12 o'clock position (or at least somewhat higher than the 3 o'clock position).  This gives 4X CF at the bottom of the swing.  4X CF allows for a bob of less weight which will help when it needs to be lifted back to the reset position.   Also, the force required to raise the bob near the top of the swing is less than the force required to raise the bob when it is at the 3 o'clock position.  I'm sure you are already aware of these things but I thought I would mention them to be safe.
 
Rick
 

Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2012, 10:27:41 PM »
  Rick,
 one reason why I thought of placing the fulcrum the same distance from the pivot of the cross beam that the bob is from the pendulum is to keep tbe math basic.
 If the lifting line on the counter weight side is furtber from the cross beam's pivot than where tbe lifting line is lifting the bob, it will lift it higher,
 it's this increased lift that would allow for perpetuallity

    Jim

edited to add; when the bob is being lifted, it's angle to the fulcrum doesn't matter.
with something like a 30 degree angle, that might be the most efficient swing and would move the bob 1/2 the distane it is from it's fulcrum, what this does is allow for the opposing side to have sufficient lifting force and extra energy left over,
 by having tbe lifting line attached to the cross beam on the cw side, it will have more movement tban the bob would when the cross beam tilts.

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2012, 10:27:41 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2012, 03:43:01 PM »
You have me thinking about the old design again.  In my designs I purposely placed the pendulum pivot point farther away from the lever pivot point than the balance weight (2:1 to be exact).  I did this to increase the range of motion of the pendulum pivot point so it would be easier to view and measure.  Capturing the pendulum bob in line with the main lever could be accomplished in many ways.  The first thing I will do is physically attach it to the lever (I have done this already) and show that the counter weight will easily lift the pendulum bob and reset the lever.  The additional feature you are suggesting (raising the weight back to it's original height) is the what is really in question.  I haven't done any math yet, but I would think that if the bob is close to the lever pivot point, there is a good chance, with the proper pulley ratio's, that the counter weight will be able to lift the bob back to it's original drop height.  Another thing to consider is releasing the weight near the 12 o'clock position (or at least somewhat higher than the 3 o'clock position).  This gives 4X CF at the bottom of the swing.  4X CF allows for a bob of less weight which will help when it needs to be lifted back to the reset position.   Also, the force required to raise the bob near the top of the swing is less than the force required to raise the bob when it is at the 3 o'clock position.  I'm sure you are already aware of these things but I thought I would mention them to be safe.
 
Rick

  Rick,
 Here is something you might want to consider for your 2SO. The bob's on both pendulums are connected much like a locomotive's wheel is connected to another one.
 The trick if you will is to have the motion of the apparatus controlled at all times. When the pendulums swing from left to right, they do it only after the left side becomes lower than the right. This should give the right side maximum leveraged potential.
 And when the right side drops lower, the bob's could then swing to the left. It may just be that when bob is in it's inner position. One way to try this before going into a build is to lock the pendulum's in the different positions that the attached diagrams reference and see if the proper movement is to be found. If so, then the hard work would begin and that would be figuring the way to make it work.
 And if anyone is wondering, after 2so.4, 2so.1 follows in what would hopefully be a repetitive cycle.
 
                                                                                                                                         Jim
 
edited to correct spelling.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:13:19 PM by johnny874 »

Offline zoelra

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2012, 06:22:08 PM »
Since both pendulums are tied together in a way that their positions along their respective paths would be the same (that is they drop at the same time and reach the bottoms of their swings at the same time) their CF would fight each other and the net down force would be 0 at all times.  There wouldn't be any force to produce or sustain the rocking motion.  That is if I am looking at the pictures correctly.




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Re: My Invention
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2012, 06:22:08 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2012, 06:48:00 PM »
Since both pendulums are tied together in a way that their positions along their respective paths would be the same (that is they drop at the same time and reach the bottoms of their swings at the same time) their CF would fight each other and the net down force would be 0 at all times.  There wouldn't be any force to produce or sustain the rocking motion.  That is if I am looking at the pictures correctly.
  Rick,
 If the angle of the cross bar is 10 degrees and the pendulums swing 30 degrees from perpindicular to gravity, that gives
about 1/3 or more (possibly over %40) the distance from the fulcrum to the bob as over/under balance. This would mean that for every 1 foot the bob's are from their fulcrum's, that the center of balance from the cross beam's pivot is shifted a minimum of 4 inches.
A simple test would be to connect the 2 weights. And have something hold what's connecting the weights to one side and see if the cross beam doesn't tilt downward ion that direction.
 As the diagram shows, as the cross beam tilts, what ever is used to hold the weights shifted will need to be curved. for a basic test, even a board and a bolt would work.
  One thing I like about 30 degree angles is that at 1 meter from the fulcrum, a weight would lift/drop 13.4% while moving laterally 50%. One reason why pendulum's are so efficient.
                                                                                                                       Jim
 
edited to add; if the pendulums only swing 15 degrees, this would still shift the center of balance about 20% the length the fulcrum's are from their bob's. And if you have 10 lbs. at 3 feet and the bob's are on rods 2 ft. long, then the resultant shift in force is about 6 lbs.did some quick math so it will be off a little. but I think that would be enough to tilt it one way before letting the pendulum's swing in unison to shift the balance the other way and have another approx. 6 lbs. of over balance.
 If the math is right, then it would be a start and in the thread on Milcovik's pendulum, in over 10 years no one has been able to take it perpetual. Then again, they've never tried something like this.
 
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Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2012, 07:28:15 PM »
 the shift in force would be about 6 ft. lbs, and not 6 lbs.
 It might be possible to shift the pendulums even more by using the momentum from the cross beams tilting motion. This would increase their swinging motion to hopefully account for entropy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: My Invention
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2012, 07:28:15 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2012, 12:00:25 AM »
  Rick,
 If you're interested in working together on the 2SO or what I'm trying, send me a pm
 to many hecklers in here.

Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2012, 07:45:15 PM »
  @All,
 Have started the build. I will be using unconvential techniques because things like bearings and bushings won't be used.
  If I can, I will use veneer to improve it's appearance.
 Not sure if I'll be posting any more. Only someone interested in building would find it's construction interesting. And that would be because they would want to have a better go of it.
     Jim

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2012, 07:45:15 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2012, 04:21:38 PM »
  @All,
 Will have to change the design. What I found is I could possibly
have 1/2 inch pound of force for an over balance on one side. Going the
other way, it would be about 1 1/2. I'll need to go over the numbers some more
to see if I can get a better balance.
 Still, have been considering if a small Bessler wheel would work. If nothing else,
I would have a model to show what I've been talking about. *Until I get something
built to put to the math...
 
 And for the trolls, sometimes having someone else building makes it a little better.
After all, this build costs about $10 and this is an overunity forum. Not sure why that
would bother some people unless...

Offline zoelra

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2012, 07:17:35 PM »
Hello James,
 
Sorry I was really busy over the weekend and didn't make as much progress as I would have liked.  The stand for my old 2SO would not suffice so I came up with the idea of mounting the main lever on the wall in my garage.  I added an additional bar above the lever that will hold the pulleys for the lever.  You may want to consider this approach as it saves time on making a stand.  The picture I have attached shows where I am headed.  I do plan on getting as close to your specifications as possible.  My goal will be to validate your idea that the counter weight will be able to reset the pendulum to it's initial drop height.  I'm glad to see you are planning your build.
 
 
 

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2012, 07:17:35 PM »
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Offline zoelra

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2012, 07:20:21 PM »
My picture is not showing up in the previous post, but the link works.  Anyone know why?  The filesize is 468K.

Offline johnny874

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2012, 11:13:45 PM »
Hello James,
 
Sorry I was really busy over the weekend and didn't make as much progress as I would have liked.  The stand for my old 2SO would not suffice so I came up with the idea of mounting the main lever on the wall in my garage.  I added an additional bar above the lever that will hold the pulleys for the lever.  You may want to consider this approach as it saves time on making a stand.  The picture I have attached shows where I am headed.  I do plan on getting as close to your specifications as possible.  My goal will be to validate your idea that the counter weight will be able to reset the pendulum to it's initial drop height.  I'm glad to see you are planning your build.

  Not a bad way to about something. I put an x about where the pendulum would need to swing from.
I'm going to try to think of a simple way to catch and release the pendulum. Actually, think I already have.
 I'll post it later.
                                                                                                                Jim

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2012, 11:23:40 PM »
@zoelra:
It's a well-known forum glitch, usually resolves in an hour or so. I see your inline image now. Don't fret, as long as you see two listings of the attachment, it will eventually show up as an inline image as well as the download link.

Offline zoelra

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Re: My Invention
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2012, 11:26:25 PM »
As is, the main lever is just over 4' long, (2'+ on either side of the pivot point).  There are holes drilled every 6".  The length of the pendulum shaft is 1'.  Each of the weights is 2.5lb.
 
 
 

 

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