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Author Topic: Angle of Attack  (Read 8618 times)

rukiddingme

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Angle of Attack
« on: July 26, 2012, 07:14:14 AM »
Does the equation describing the amount of energy produced by a magnet crossing a perpendicular wire simply 100% -> 0% as you move from perpendicular to parallel? Is energy produced passing a magnet parallel to a piece of wire?

TinselKoala

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2012, 08:14:16 AM »
Does the equation describing the amount of energy produced by a magnet crossing a perpendicular wire simply 100% -> 0% as you move from perpendicular to parallel? Is energy produced passing a magnet parallel to a piece of wire?
Sort of. Yes and no. You are being rather imprecise with your terms, for example you are not "producing" energy, just transferring it from the motion of your magnet to the motion of charge in the wire.

The induced current in the wire is proportional to the number of imaginary "field lines" crossed or "cut" by the wire in a given time interval. So, with the same strength magnet (same number of field lines can be imagined) if you move directly across the wire (or move the wire directly across the field) you will cut the greatest number of field lines per second, and if you move the field parallel along the wire you will "cut" no field lines per second. And so the induced current varies with the angle between the motion of the field (or the wire) and the wire (or the field). 
The energy comes from whatever is causing the relative motion of field and conductor... the thing that's moving the magnet, or the coil. If there's a load on the conductor there will be a drag, transmitted through the field, on whatever is causing the motion. This is the basis for electric motors, eddy current dampers, transformers, and many other electronic devices.

sparks

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 04:31:41 PM »
  A magnetic field is one and the same as the electric field.  It is the flow of vitual particle that create charge.  In a homopolar generator the permanent magnet and the  conductor can be caused to spin in the same inertial frame with no relavent motion.  VOLTAGE develops between the axis of the copper disk and the edge of the disk.  This is becaue there are more charged partilcles moving in the perimeter of the disk than in the center of the disk.  The virtual particle flow into the permanent magnet remains at the same intensity or flux while the vpf (virtual particle flow) into the copper disk does not.  The virtual particle flow in the core of the disc is relatively the same as that flowing into the pm.  The vpf into the outer disc is way different due to the motion and there arises an electromotive force between the two conductors.  One moving and one stationary lieing in a static magnetic field.   Space is not static it is dynamic.  In any detectable electric field there is a huge amount of energy propagating that electric field.  An electrostatic field can be described as comprised of a whole shitload of standing waves with o frequency and infinite amplitude.  Put some electrons in an electrostatic field and what do they do?   They accelerate.  What do they do when they accelerate they give off photons better know as electromagnetic waves.  When they slow down what do they do.  They emit electromagnetic waves.  When they sit still they emit Tesla waves.  Tesla used tubes in his roadster.  By pulsing the tube so that a space charge in the tube is oscillated back and forth he produced electromagnetic waves which then were transferred into large frequency modulating circuits that drove the motor like a variable frequency drive drives a motor using am frequencies.
It's like Bearden says.  Don't kill the dipole.  Oscillate the electrons back and forth using electrostatic field propogation and if the electrons never reach the capacitor plates from which you issue the electrostatic field you never kill the dipole. 
 

TinselKoala

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 10:15:17 PM »
Yep. (Well, half a yep, anyhow. I don't much agree with Colonel Tom.)

Charge, motion, field: one thing. One.

Just as sparks says, it's the same field.
The presence of the field and whether you see it as electric, magnetic, or both depends on how and where the observation is made and how the observer and observed are moving relative to one another and the external universe. (This latter is arguable).

rukiddingme

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 08:49:34 AM »
Okay, I understand most of what you (TinselKoala & Sparks) said. 100% to 0%.


Now the next question.


Assume that a magnet crossing a wire creates a current value of +2(whatever, just a number).


Now have the magnet cross the wire at a 45 degree angle moving the angle of attack CLOCKWISE. Assume this creates a current value of +1.


If I now have the magnet cross the wire moving the angle of attack COUNTER-CLOCKWISE, does this change the current from +1 to -1?


Or would the value change from positive to negative only if you reverse the polarity of the magnet?





TinselKoala

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 04:39:36 PM »
If I am understanding you correctly, the polarity of the induced voltage will reverse when either the direction of motion or the polarity of the field lines (magnet pole) is reversed. If you reverse them both you wind up with the same polarity you started with.

http://www.cyberphysics.co.uk/topics/magnetsm/electro/FRHR.gif

http://hydropowerstation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image00410.jpg

This link has a really good explanation of the effects of relative motion/angle/direction of field and conductor:
Fundamentals of Synchronous Machines
http://hydropowerstation.com/?p=3398

rukiddingme

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2012, 07:49:07 AM »
Thanks TinselKoala, that helped a lot.


:-)

sparks

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Re: Angle of Attack
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2012, 04:10:17 PM »
   If an electron is sitting still or at rest RELAVANT to the observer there flows from the electron to the observer virtual particles that tells the observer the electron is negatively charged.  When the electron moves there flows from the electron to the observer ACCELERATED virtual particles that tells the observer the electron is moving.  The accelerated virtual particles form CURRENTS between the observer and the MOVING electron.  As an electron moves further and further away from the observer the observer begins to see less and less of the intrinsic virtual particle flow of the electron until at some point the communication line snaps.  They call this magnetic reconnection.  This is when the flow of virtual particles between the observer and the electron drops below the scalar virtual particle flow and the observer magnetically reconnects with the ambient currents.  This magnetic reconnection is often observed as a transient or spike of great amplitude and very short wavelength.  It is used in the flyback transformers in a television to charge the tube to 30,000 volts between anode and cathode.  When the diode between the flyback transformer and the anode becomes shorted the high voltage developed across the tube discharges back through the flyback transformer where the secondary of the flyback becomes the primary and the resulting current pulse in the secondary pops the horizontal output transistor which is driving the primary.  The same magnetic reconnection was used in automobile ignition systems.  The flyback is used to charge the spark plug gap.  This magnetic reconnection event occurs very regularly on Earth as the little electron we are taking a ride on stresses the electrostatic field generated by the Sun.  The efield snaps and the Earth magnetically reconnects with the scalar current flows.