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Author Topic: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device  (Read 15449 times)

Offline wizkycho

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Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« on: July 15, 2006, 11:06:38 PM »
Hi All !

This a must work FE device. I don't see why it wouldn't.
It is pretty simple, much simpler than testatika.
First what is needed is charge plates with high voltage (depends on dielectric and output trafo)
After that high voltage is disconnected. only power that is needed after is small power to turn the rotor
No mater what power we extract on load. Mr. Lenz has not much chance to counter react here.

If very high volatage is used it sholud be necessery to recharge the plates from time to time due to losses by ionic discharge with air
and some losses in dieletric, but this is small portion of what can be extracted at the output(s).

negative plates in animation is stator, positive is rotor. By displacing positive charge negative charge is forced
to travel through primary coil of trafo which will lower down a voltage to a suitable voltage for our applications.

As I said this is a must work device. Please can someone try it. I'will soon as I have some time.

Igor Knitel
Perihelion Labs 2006





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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2006, 12:34:37 AM »
GB300311,page 3,line 92-97:

"Here,it will be understood that the energy created by the operation of the motor may at times be vastly in excess of the energy required
to operate the motor.
In some instances the ratio may be even as high as a

                         million to one."

Inventor:Thomas Townsend Brown
Input Voltage:circa 20000V

Sincerely
            de Lanca

p.s.: you know how the Lenz-Law is explained,
       that there has to be a movement of "rotor" or "stator" to
       get kinetic or electric energy.
       
       Now my statement:
       a transformer is static, but we receive from the secondary
       coil,without "transformer parts rotation" electric energy !

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2006, 01:39:42 PM »
GB300311,page 3,line 92-97:

"Here,it will be understood that the energy created by the operation of the motor may at times be vastly in excess of the energy required
to operate the motor.
In some instances the ratio may be even as high as a

                         million to one."

Inventor:Thomas Townsend Brown
Input Voltage:circa 20000V

Sincerely
            de Lanca


So Tomas Towsend Brown did it. Is it possible that knowone tried to replicate this ?
This is probably one of the simplest ideas I've seen.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2006, 01:39:42 PM »
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Offline Mica Busch

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2006, 03:47:09 PM »
Looks wonderful, cant wait to see if I can build one! A truly magnificent [and simple!] design if I ever saw one! Charging capacitor 'plate' to a high voltage, and reciprocating it across two electrodes to produce an equal, but separated charge which is then transformed to low V, high A power! With sufficiently high voltages, power would be immense... A real life analog to what is happening on the negative plates would be a slinky in your hands, as your hands move up and down, the slinky 'flows' between them, but there has been no change in the slinky!

However, I have a nagging question; through capacitor-like action, would not the charge 'bleed-off' the reciprocating plate? Would the negative charge stay on the transformer plate even after the rotor has passed?

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2006, 10:14:31 PM »
Hi Igor,
great design,
I guess this could work.
Reminds me alot of how I think the Methernitha Testatika works.
In the Testatika you have a strong electret which is influencing
in each slide an AC when the electrets change positions, as the
electrets are made with changing polarity, one with positive HV DC and
the next with negative HV DC. Now when the discs of the Testatika spins
it will induce AC in the slides and this is transformed down to
rectified pulsed DC which is stored in capacitors...
You could do the same, if you have changed different polarised electrets in front of your
circuit and spin it...

Good luck !

Best regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2006, 10:14:31 PM »
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Offline wizkycho

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 12:53:39 PM »
However, I have a nagging question; through capacitor-like action, would not the charge 'bleed-off' the reciprocating plate? Would the negative charge stay on the transformer plate even after the rotor has passed?

Yes good question, some quality work should be done with isolation of plates so the charge doesn't interract with air. in rotor
design rotor plates must be designed so that when one rotor plate exits the other enters trafo pair of stator.

some of the charge would eventally be lost (no isolation is perfect) but that ammount can be recharged with some HV trafo
that is constantly connected to plates...

igor

Offline Jdo300

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 11:33:38 PM »
Hey,

You could incorporate the concept of Nicholson's Doubler (an electrostatic influence machine) to keep your plates charged. Here's a link to a great article explaining the concept:

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/nicholson.html

God Bless,
Jason O

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 11:33:38 PM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 05:13:25 PM »
Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I found this rather old topic searching for messages
inherent the Thestatika... if that doesn't annoy you too much I would like to resume
it a bit since I think that the concept originally exposed really needs further discussion
and understanding.

Here an apparently intriguing as possibly misleading idea has been proposed.
Synthetically:
-A circuit driving an AC load (a stepdown transformer, in the example) originates from
 two conductive plates
-An external, movable plate is electrostatically charged (either by an external
 HV power supply, or it might also be a permanently charged electret), no matter
 if positively or negatively
-This plate is moved cyclically to face alternatively the two plates, separated from
 them by a suitable dielectric (solid or air)
-An alternated current is electrostatically induced in the circuit this way because,
 assuming the moving plate is positively charged, electrons in the circuit tend to travel
 attracted toward one or the other end, depending on where the moving plate is at
 a given moment with respect to the "input" plates - and viceversa
-It is finally asserted that this current would flow "for free", or (implicitely) that at
 least some gain would somewhere occur in the process. A patent also is given where
 a similar (if I intend correctly) principle is exploited (I didn't manage to gain access
 to it btw...)

If we substitute the mechanical work required to oscillate the circuit with a direct
electrical work instead, we can redraw your scheme as follows:



It comes out a simple AC circuit where the load (a trafo in the example) is electrically
separated from the generator by two capacitors, each in series on the legs.
I'm not an electronic engineer and I can't name such an arrangement properly. I made some
search and strangely I could not find any elementary circuit schematic where the load is
"coupled" this way. Perhaps it's usually an unwanted, or non convenient configuration,
I don't know and forgive my ignorance (but comments are welcome here).

But I see clearly that in either cases you won't get the AC induced in the circuit for
free. By moving the charged plate mechanically you will surely experience a BACK TORQUE,
it's not much different if it were a magnetic circuit, just here we're dealing with
electrostatic rather than magnetic attraction-repulsion. It's always moving something
(electrons thru the circiut in this case) using a force, a static field, think it as an
invisible latch. The more the capacitance (i.e the larger/nearer the plates), the stronger
the force to couple the work. Really I see no point why you should gain anything in the
process, even using HV, VHV or trying with different frequencies: the background is
always the same. Unless you using HV can get some charge from the air...

This topic catched my eye just because it intrigued me and made me reasoning on an
apparently so obvious thing. So my disappointing that no crude (but useful) technical
intervention had been made in merit yet.

Just because I'm so stupid, I tried out the electrical equivalent on my desk.
I plugged (to be safe) a 230->24 vac trafo in the mains. I connected two
capacitors (5 uF, 450 Vac) in series at the secondary legs as shown. I measured
the output voltage after the caps: 24 vac. Then the short circuit current: about 14.6
milliamps. Without the caps the trafo I used would keep a short circuit current of
about 0.8 Amps. With short circuit after the caps, current is only 14.6 mA, and the
same is reflected right at the trafo output, 14.6mA - so you see that nothing is
given for free here. The two caps act like "chokes", they separate galvanically the
load from the source, keeping the E field (potential) but allowing electrons to move
with less energy, so less current, depending on how they're big. I tried with
littler caps, less current allowed. I tried connecting a load in place of the
short circuit, the current is limited but that little draw is still measureable
at the trafo secondary, it doesn't come from heaven. It needs work to push/pull
the electrons in the circuit even thru the ES induction in the capacitors, no matter
if you supply that work mechanically or electrically, it's the same. Well,
doing that mechanically is really worse, because somewhere you'll have to convert
some electrical energy into motion for that, eg using a motor, with heat losses.

Coming back to Thestatika, yes I think too that the antennae keys could be
stimulated this way (electrostatic induction) but the surplus energy there
comes surely from air ions, with the machine itself acting as an electron pump,
allowing their collection - nobody knows HOW.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 05:54:23 PM »

@Hel

I think the Testatika machine use "pickoff" capacitors; Metal plates that are
influenced by alternate +/- sector charges, and that substitute for the brushes
in a normal Winhurst Machine. Primary Reason: To eliminate brush wear.
One of the the things that needs to be accomplished by the Testatika
is voltage step down and pulling off AC rather than DC static charge
directly helps the voltage step down situation. By operating the "tube" with lower
AC voltages one avoids the +10KV DC region of X-ray production in vacuum
tubes.

The Ant. Keys are a pseudo random digital sequences designed again, to lower
static electric wear on sharp edges of the variable sector metalization
patterns.

So the testatika machine is solving a series of problems for very variable
level of power production in a pre-digital controller environment.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 05:54:23 PM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 07:20:23 PM »
@Hel

One of the the things that needs to be accomplished by the Testatika
is voltage step down and pulling off AC rather than DC static charge
directly helps the voltage step down situation. By operating the "tube" with lower
AC voltages one avoids the +10KV DC region of X-ray production in vacuum
tubes.

You may operate a Wimshurst to generate HV, then step it down -ok let's
assume you can do that with 100% efficency- no matter if you pull off HV
as AC or DC, with or w/o contacting brushes, yet what you get will be a
bit less than the power needed to rotate the disks, thus you can't power
with it a motor and make the machine self sustaining. Somewhere energy
has to be picked up from the outside. Where do you think the energy is
collected "from the air" in the Testatika ? At the disks' side or somewhere
down the transformation chain ? I don't think a great amount of charge
can be taken from the disks because 1) the non contacting brushes should
spark quite a few, and perhaps it would require a potential >> 10KV
2) Baumann stated that "the charge must never be taken off the disks" or such

Quote
The Ant. Keys are a pseudo random digital sequences designed again, to lower
static electric wear on sharp edges of the variable sector metalization
patterns.
So the testatika machine is solving a series of problems for very variable
level of power production in a pre-digital controller environment.

pseudo random digital sequences ? Like 10110101010111010 ? Where, how ?
That's the first time I hear this theory... can you explain it more detailedly
please ?

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 06:54:19 PM »

Somewhere energy
has to be picked up from the outside. Where do you think the energy is
collected "from the air" in the Testatika ? At the disks' side or somewhere
down the transformation chain ? I don't think a great amount of charge
can be taken from the disks because 1) the non contacting brushes should
spark quite a few, and perhaps it would require a potential >> 10KV
2) Baumann stated that "the charge must never be taken off the disks" or such


a) My assumption is that triboelectric charge collection is by definition an
overunity process.

b) Believe me. Actual free electrons are collected from the air atmosphere.
The same process powers thunderstorms. The same sky return current
equalizes them. The disks collect them, then they flow to the Layden Jars

c) The design of Wimhurst disks are trade offs;
  1 - you want high resistance insulator so that the
average charge on the disk stays high - collecting ever more charge.

v.s.

2- you want low resistance on the disk so that the collected
charge can be discharged rapidly through the rest of the circuit
- hence the metalization pattern of the Testatika machine.
Solid metal disks on the wimshurst machine would not work!



pseudo random digital sequences ? Like 10110101010111010 ? Where, how ?
That's the first time I hear this theory... can you explain it more detailedly
please ?


This bbs edit window is misbehaving for me but yes;
psedudo random Ant Key sequencess. This would
allow the identical machine next store to operate
without syncronnization


:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 06:54:19 PM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 07:51:31 PM »
a) My assumption is that triboelectric charge collection is by definition an
overunity process.

Aha, that's the hot topic! Please note that I actually DON'T WANT to be stuck
to the official science, on the contrary. But, unless any counter proof, you
have to make a mechanical work to separate the charges (tribo effect),
and I see no point why this work should give you more. If you separate
two attracting magnets, then use their force to let them join again... the same.
Unless...
Quote
b) Believe me. Actual free electrons are collected from the air atmosphere.
...indeed, we all think so of course. Unless, I was saying, the process of
triboelectric charging actually involved someway the air free electrons.
Only with this guess one can tell that triboelectric charging may be OU.

Quote
c) The design of Wimhurst disks are trade offs;
  1 - you want high resistance insulator so that the
average charge on the disk stays high - collecting ever more charge.

Ok that makes sense for me. You maintain a fixed charge on the disks,
this charge acting as "pump" to help air free electrons being attracted.
Then any surplus is taken off the disks.

However I have to tell that the Wimshurst resemblance always intrigued
me. Even if the working principle is completely different, it may not be
just casuality that the Testatikas look right that: two counter rotating
disks with tho big "pots" (MAINLY). That makes me think that perhaps
Baumann started "playing" with a Wimshurst machine and he thought to
modify it step by step, at least in principle, perhaps learning some strange
effect during his attempts... or at least, that he initially tried to self
build such a HV machine and then ended up with something functionally
different...

I also believe that all the work he made he did it on a completely intuitive
basis. No complex math. Baumann was not an engineer, but a clock maker.
Thus a lot of hand skill and intuition. Afterall, the same Methernitans' assertions
seem confirming that only such an approach could lead to the results they obtained.
If it were not for that (adjustable ?) rectifying coil on the top of the single disk
machine (the simpler of them), that makes me doubting, I would even say that
Baumann perhaps knew nothing about resonance, LC circuits and so on.

Quote
This bbs edit window is misbehaving for me but yes;
psedudo random Ant Key sequencess. This would
allow the identical machine next store to operate
without syncronnization

Mmmm... all that sounds double dutch to me ???


 

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